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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:53 AM
Original message
Comments please on this theory of Putin's support for Bush
Putin is a wiley, cagey old bastard. When an intelligent person looks into Putin's eyes, he or she sees nothing but guise and guile. When Bush looks into Putin's eyes, he sees a man he thinks he can trust; a man with his very own values and inclinations. (When Putin looks into Shruby's eyes, he sees only headlights.)

Putin wants nothing less than to ressurect Russia as a great world power. His best chance is to see the US world respect diminished.

Bush's incompetence is dragging America's stature into the mud on the world stage. Putin wants Bush back in so Bush can complete the destruction of America's role as the once honorable leader of the world.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's probably more bizarre
than that.

"...like a circle ever spinning, like a wheel within a wheel..."
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. The Carlyle Group has apparently turned to Russia...
and away from the Saudis, especially since they started pulling their money out after 9/11. Bush Sr. and all sorts of people have been visiting there, and the Russians now have the palladium market virtually cornered. Methinks this has more to do with money than power.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Yes, I agree with you on that.. and that would account for Cheney's
Edited on Fri Jun-18-04 11:35 AM by Tellurian
recent visit to China. The claims made in the newspaper's for Cheney's visit to China were about nuclear reactors sales. I doubt there is any truth to their official WH press release.

As recently as yesterday, China's PM called the US a whore. I don't think that remark was aimed at US citizenry but at the conductors of US business policies, Bush and Cheney.

China has become a big player in the market for palladium. I imagine Cheney wants to get in on that market either acting as a broker for Carlyle or by creating and brokering partnerships with other US companies.

a brief history of the "new" technology and uses of palladium:

"Mitsui’s Smith believes the forecasts of palladium usage in diesel exhaust catalysis may be a little conservative. He says the diesel market is as important to platinum’s growth as the much-vaunted Chinese jewellery market. “Both (diesels and China) account for around 1 million oz per annum, or about one-third of total demand. And diesel-use plus China accounted for all the growth in platinum demand in the last six years. Any threat to these two growth domains is significant,” he says.

While the switch to palladium was inevitable – or so say most of the commentators – given the near-record platinum prices, JM believed growing diesel car sales would offset any switch to palladium. After all, until Friday, diesel catalysts were a monopoly for platinum. That has now changed and Smith believes the Umicore ‘breakthrough’ will not be limited to 30% to 35% of the diesel catalysis market.

On balance, though, the technological innovation is good news for both markets. “It is a classic win-win situation for both markets,” says one Johannesburg-based platinum analyst. It is a view echoed by Bedford. While the platinum market’s state of perennial under-supply looks only to be exacerbated by ever-increasing demand, palladium faces the dampening effects of oversupply and the legacy mistrust of dominant Russian producers. The use of palladium in auto-catalysts will not only suck up some of the palladium deficit, but will relieve some of the pressure on the platinum market.

The relief will be welcome, given that Chinese jewellery demand for the metal - which is expected to wane as prices rise - has remained stubbornly strong. “Umicore’s announcement will likely be welcomed by South African producers. In the last couple of days both Anglo Platinum and Lonmin have publicly suggested that, far from being a “safety valve”, China is now a perpetual platinum-demand machine even as prices rise,” says Smith, who believes the Umicore announcement has relieved some of the pressure from the market.

For vehicle manufacturers, the $20 saving on each car is marginal to say the least, though they are likely to adopt the new technology once it is proven. Stephen Cheetham, a car-industry analyst at Sanford C Bernstein, told Reuters the new catalyst would not save too much money for manufacturers, as the palladium price would probably increase on the higher demand.

“Palladium and platinum are interchangeable, palladium is not inherently cheaper, they tend to flip flop. Even if there is a price gap now, the increased demand for palladium if automakers make the switch is likely to bid it up so it is not going to save them a whole lot of money," said Cheetham.

Palladium continued to surge upward on Monday as speculators latched onto Friday’s announcement from Belgian metals refiner Umicore, that it had developed a system for using palladium in diesel auto-catalysis. Bids for palladium in mid-day London trade scaled $310/oz, while in Tokyo, palladium futures hit 18-month highs."

http://www.mineweb.net/sections/platinum/314326.htm

I would say, Cheney acting as a broker for Carlyle, dissed Putin and tried to undercut any deals or future deals Russia would have with China. The Bush gang have a penchant for pay back. Putin's consistently voting against the US at the UN would, imo, be reason enough for Cheney to attempt to damage trade relations with the Russians and China.

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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. I would think that this is obvious
Who is more politically vulnerable? Bush, trying to keep a score of scandals in check, or Kerry?

If you are negotiating, would you rather deal with a party that is more vulnerable, or less so? Do you want to play chess against a weakened opponent or a strong one?

Putin is a renowned Judo practioner, and I've seen evidence that his strategies often spring from this background. He's using the weight of the US against itself. He's taking advantage of Bush's momentum, and giving him a little push along the way for good measure.

Do you have any idea how rich Russia is getting due to the price of oil right now?
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venus Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Putin didn't like Clinton or Wes Clark because of
Kosova and Bosnia, IMO. Putin's ideology is more closely aligned with Bushco. That being said, he didn't have the backing of his electorate to send troops to Iraq. He's smart enough to know this would have broken their flimsy economy. Here's a chance to help Bush out, but it's a stupid attempt because his story is not credible.
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think you may be on to something, there Merlin
Russia & China are probably the only places that aren't likely scared of the U.S. - so why wouldn't Putin let the mad war chimp destroy America and displace Russia as the world's evil empire? Russia/Putin can be the white knights compared to BushCo's 'Murican empire.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. But, but, I thought Russia was the Evil Empire
Why are the right wing nutsos embracing what a Russian president says?

Shows how desperate they are...
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. Whatever iy is Comrade Putin is LYING like the Soviet he is.
Like the Totalitarian Acrchitect (though he stolen the plan straight from the Bushevik playbook) of "Managed Democracy" he IS!
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's in Russia's interest to have Chimp in charge here.
For the reasons you pointed out--the serious decline of US prestige--but also because with BushCo in power, Putin gets a free pass on his actions in areas like Chechnya or the Russian economy. The Chimp can't complain about anything Putin does given his own track record.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You are right
Pooty-Poo feels that he can get away with anything with Bush as long as the oil flows. Bush does not care about human rights.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. W asked the Pope too "not all bishops are with me". A G8 byproduct
Who knows what national security concessions did W make for this and when the bloback will byte us? I know Clark said "Putin is not a friend of us"
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