They are using torture to manufacture Iraq-Al Qaeda links

[RBHam]

On Meet The Press 9-11 coverup commissioner John Lehman (R-Mustprotectbush) stated that "new intelligence" is "developing" due to "interrogations" of "Al Qaeda leaders" in Guantanamo and "other facilities"...

Many of us wild eyed defenders of truth, justice and liberty warned over and over again that this would happen - that this was the plan from the outset. You certainly remember all of the floated "Is torture ever justified?" stories all over the media afcter 9-11? They monitored citizen's reactions like a focaus group and came to the conclusion that the majority of Americans could be manipulated into supporting it. That's why they forge so brazenly ahead - even after the Abu Ghraib revelations. Throygh the Corporate Media they can manipulate the public into having little stomach to stay focused on the fact that the problem is broad and widespread. The Media seems to promote the "Soma Pill" Story that it was just a few bad apples and that the Military is a glorious institution with hunky JAGs and perky female officer lawyers with fake boobs firmly keeping all the soldiers in line...

Watch it happen. The War Of Terror will be justified with manufactured pretenses - who knows where they will stop with these "interrogations". You want justification for a War with Syria? It can be provided. How about Iran? North Korea?

When official propaganda becomes conventional wisdom you are lost.

[LibertyorDeath]

1. Too true

"When official propaganda becomes conventional wisdom you are lost"

[RBHam]

2. Thanks to the DU photoshoppers...

[izzie]

3. Odd as I just got done reading, Google News items, and it is not

what the site said. Yesterday I also read that orders were sent to Cuba to get more info any way they could, so to speak. This has to be one of those things one has to read more on and looks like a red/blue state thing. Looks to me that 'paper' work has now come out that states how to get information comes from the very top. I do recall that one place they sent you to was the Service papers. I will see if I can find it. The PC keeps shutting down so wish me luck.

[izzie]

5. It is------

www.tomdispatch.com Very long and it will send you all over. It said read one item that was so long I did not even pull it up. I'll wait on that one.

[amber dog democrat]

4. Still, false intelligence gotten through torture

is about as credible as the confessions of witchcraft collected by civil authorities in the 1600s. Without more credible evidence it won't stand up under scrutiny.

Also, what useful informatin can be obtained from the Gitmo and other prisoiners?
Some of them have been held for going on 3 years now. What new evidence can they provide?

[RBHam]

6. Any information the Administration needs...

If Congress, as representatives of the people, and the media, supposedly the public's watchdog, turn a blind eye to this abuse of power - they will get away with it. Where do you think they're getting the Shopping Mall terror warnings? Remember over the holidays when they terrified the public with "unsubstantiated threats" obtained through "interrogations" of detainees?

Just part of the plan to slowly inculcate America to it's new Fascist reality. One day people will wake up and realize any one of you can become an "enemy of the state" - and be subject to the whims of the President. White House lawyers have already been working on it.

[amber dog democrat]

7. Well said.

yet the emperor still has no clothes. Say were you bothered by the alerts over the holidays? I can tell you they had no effect here beyond making travel more of a bother. Still i wonder at the imbecillic way both houses collaborate with the WH on domestic security issues. We are allowing ourselves to be stampeded in a direction where consequences are more than worrisome.

I am hoping the "new evidence " obtained by torturing the usual suspects will have all the credibility of the boy who cried wolf.
Granted i am in the minority in this opinion, but I agree, we are facing some very dangerous situation regarding indivudual rights and protections from stateist governmental abuses. The American sheeple won't be much help in stoping it either.

[RBHam]

8. Holy Crap! Some of the truth starts to ooze out...

U.S. Said to Overstate Value of Guantánamo Detainees
By TIM GOLDEN and DON VAN NATTA Jr.

UANTÁNAMO BAY, Cuba, June 19 — For nearly two and a half years, American officials have maintained that locked within the steel-mesh cells of the military prison here are some of the world's most dangerous terrorists — "the worst of a very bad lot," Vice President Dick Cheney has called them.

The officials say information gleaned from the detainees has exposed terrorist cells, thwarted planned attacks and revealed vital intelligence about Al Qaeda. The secrets they hold and the threats they pose justify holding them indefinitely without charge, Bush administration officials have said.

But as the Supreme Court prepares to rule on the legal status of the 595 men imprisoned here, an examination by The New York Times has found that government and military officials have repeatedly exaggerated both the danger the detainees posed and the intelligence they have provided.

more...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/21/politics/21GITM.html?ei=5062&en=c5bd0d9c61bc2572&ex=1088395200&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=

[izzie]

9. I do not believe these people are the big bad guys they say

I also do not think that weekly we kill one of the top guys, which the govt. is always saying. This whole thing is like a Chinese Fire Drill, as the saying goes. I even think we should look at the John Walker Lindh all over. The whole prison thing smells all wrong. I think we done war crimes. And they start at the top.

[Th1onein]

10. OH MY GOD! YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION:

I have been wondering, lately, WHY the torture? These guys don't do anything unless it benefits them.

So WHY would they go to such great lengths such as getting all the legal angles together and everything? Why would torture serve any end of theirs?

You got it! They are manufacturing evidence!

[Spazito]

11. Without documentary evidence that can be shown to be genuine...

the "testimony" of a tortured detainee would be worth squat in the end, imo. This is just another red herring to shift the focus away from the bush admin, it will be interesting if it works.

[RBHam]

12. kick

torture = false confessions

[RBHam]

13. cross link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1827391#1830090

[RBHam]

14. kick, again...

This is the most important story the Media doesn't want you to hear.