I look around, and all I see the Birth of Nazi America. I see people

[radwriter0555]

acting like the Germans under hitler, following along, lock step or heads buried, like the germans who didn't notice the ash from Auschwitz raining down on them.

I see hate violently spewed towards all Muslims and Middle Easterners, as the hate directed towards the jews. Just put them in trains or torture camps, with no consequence.

I see the cowardice of the people defending the actions of a rogue regime intent on conquering the world, identical to those who defended hitler, as they do bush.

I see an arrogant administration moving forward with no fear or concerns towards war in yet another Country for Conquer (Iran).. they aren't worried at ALL about the coming election, which means they've got something planned to usurp this election, yet again, in spite of the astounding and amazing efforts by Bev Harris. They've got something else up their sleeves.

They've done it. The 4th Reich has risen... it's in our White House, and I don't think we can stop it.

[Eric J in MN]

1. Are you volunteering for fundraising or gettng out the vote?

Are you volunteering for fundraising or gettng out the vote?

Have you donated as much as you can afford at
www.johnkerry.com

Are you helping any Democratic Congressional candidates?

[radwriter0555]

3. They've got the vote in the bag, can't you tell? They've got it taken

care of already, no matter how many votes for kerry ARE cast.

Something else is afoot.

But I'm more worried about the people.

[BeHereNow]

9. I agree totally with you Rad...

The blatant smirking is the key.
He smirks and is a smart ass because he feels NO
threat about losing power. It's in the bag, as you say,
and he knows it. He knows he can do whatever he pleases
without fear of consequence, legal or otherwise.
The word omnipotent comes to mind.
Drunk with power, sociopath that he is.

The frightening part for me concerns our fellow citizens:
One, a group who are so completely ignorant and vile
who can't wait to serve the fatherland and beat up
"libruls," the other group being the intended victims of
their hate.

I want out.
Before its too late.

BHN

[radwriter0555]

15. I know what you mean. I was hopeful up until this week, with the push to

invade Iran going full throttle.

This pending unwarranted invasion is the act of a regime that KNOWS it will remain in place on November 2, but is making a big enough stink to make it a close election.

And it's not that they believe they're backing a good man, by any means; it means they've got a PLAN.

We'd better get on the stick and find out what it is, and fast.

[robertpaulsen]

53. Smirky might be losing his smirk.

Publicly, he's still the same cheeky monkey. But privately, and God I hope this is true, there is a different story.

New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional
By TERESA HAMPTON

snip

The carefully-crafted image of George W. Bush as a bold, decisive leader is cracking under the weight of new revelations that the erratic President is indecisive, moody, paranoid and delusional.
“More and more this brings back memories of the Nixon White House,” says retired political science professor George Harleigh, who worked for President Nixon during the second presidential term that ended in resignation under fire. “I haven’t heard any reports of President Bush wondering the halls talking to portraits of dead Presidents but what I have been told is disturbing.”

Two weeks ago, Capitol Hill Blue revealed that a growing number of White House aides are concerned about the President’s mental stability. They told harrowing tales of violent mood swings, bouts with paranoia and obscene outbursts from a President who wears his religion on his sleeve.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4704.shtml

Perhaps, even with Diebold, Bush knows that all the scandals he is connected with are catching up to him. May he rot in jail!

[tom_paine]

28. radwriter, it doesn't matter what MIGHT BE, you HAVE to try

What if you are wrong and your efforts sorely needed?

I feel as you do but I am putting it aside and working/donating my ass off because WHAT IF I AM WRONG?

I would neevr forgive myself for staying on the sidelines when I should have been helping.

Think about it.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

[goforit]

29. Yes, we have to try......there is a way.....

There always is and there always has been.

Evil falls fast!!!!

Just watch and see.

[ShaneGR]

30. Actually.... that's why Nazi Germany happened....

Because the opposition gave up before it was over. Kind of like you. I can tell you this, I haven't given up and I KNOW we are about to kick there ass. With, or without, you. Though I'd appreciate your help.

[Slickriddles]

41. Which opposition?

Which opposition in Weimar Germany gave up before it was over? And what do you mean by "it was over," the Nazi seizure of power 1933-34?
Those who do not study the past are condemned to repeat it, but unfortunately, those of us who do study the past are also condemned to repeat it because the vast majority remain confused and dazed by education that seeks to bore you with history so you will pay no attention to it.

[indepat]

47. It's not who votes, but who counts the votes. If the 4th Reich has indeed

arrived, every American will soon know for our just desserts will surely follow.

[Syncronaut Seven]

2. Sure we can!

But it's gonna be costly, and frankly I don't think that there are that many genuine patriots left in America.

Plenty of faux patriots (and faux christians for that matter) But who's really gonna stop this train?

I keep hoping that our enlisted wake up soon, and they haven't run out of ammo when they do.

[kaitykaity]

4. Well, I guess we can all give up then.

Since it's all a lost cause.

/sarcasm off.

[TahitiNut]

12. I think there's a big difference between giving up ...

... and realizing that the socio-political conditions in this country are far, far more severe than a single Presidential election can solve, even assuming the alternative is actually antithetical to the corporatist/neofascist ideology.

These folks have been at this for over 25 years. School boards went first - all over the country. Then Departments of Education at the state level. State legislatures followed, along with steady takeovers of Congressional seats. Right now, there's not a single seat on the Supreme Court that's anywhere close to Thurgood Marshall. Even so-called "liberals" attacked Cynthia McKinney and deride Dennis Kucinich. The so-called "middle" in the US is now farther to the right than the right wing parties in Canada, France, and Germany. Thirty years ago, I never imagined I'd see the day when Canada (with blue laws that prohibited women from drinking in the bar area!) would be regarded as more liberal then the US.

The elected officials are merely a visible symptom. It's the diseased mentality of the electorate that's the problem, not the politicians. About 30% of voters seem to be jingoistic Luddites eager to dress up in jackboots and reconstitute slavery and poorhouses. It's totally appalling.

Despite all this, 99% of what I read on DU seems to have an attention span that won't last beyond November. I am not hopeful.

[kaitykaity]

14. I was being sarcastic.

You're either a part of the solution or a part of the
problem, and if you want to be pessimistic and fatalistic
about this country's chances to recover from this disaster,
then you're definitely part of the problem.

[NewEmanuelGoldstein]

43. interesting way to put it

"You're either a part of the solution or a part of the
problem, and if you want to be pessimistic and fatalistic
about this country's chances to recover from this disaster,
then you're definitely part of the problem."


So you're either with us, or against us? Sounds familiar.

Maybe the problem is the system itself ? I like others have lost faith in the system. I trusted Busch to not steal the election in 2000 and look how well that turned out. It's touching that you trust him not to steal it again, I however am "a part of the problem" and see no reason to trust Busch to not steal this one. I mean he helped make it easier to steal after the last Pres election, and look how the 2002 elections worked out so well (reps control both houses, governorships and most state and local offices now).

[kaitykaity]

45. Oh, that's all I need.

Reread with open eyes please.

If we give up hope that we cannot change this, then
it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy and yeah, sure,
it's too hard, let's watch TV and have a beer and
obsess about American Idol like the rest of the
bread and circuses crowd.

We have to believe that we can do this, that we can
beat these people, or we really are screwed.

And spreading cynicism, pessimism, and fatalism
isn't exactly "hopeful."

[smirkymonkey]

21. I agree with you completely

and though I think we need to do all we can to defeat the neo-cons and the corporate puppeteers, I am beginning to think that it's bigger than us - and bigger than the election.

I used to think getting rid of the Bush Administration would solve the problem. Though it will slow them down, it won't stop the influence of the corporate-political octopus, which I believe extends far beyond our borders.

The ignorance and complacancy of the American public allows the neo-cons to carry out their plan without significant resistance. I am still hoping for a radical change in our national political consciousness, but I think things may have already gone too far.

[MallRat]

5. There's a difference between us and 1933 Germany.

Unlike Bush and 2004 America, half of Germany didn't despise Hitler.

The Nazis, and ultimately Hitler, took control of the Reichstag, with only a third of the popular vote. Many Germans who didn't vote for the Nazis had a somewhat neutral view of Hitler.

In short- it was easier for the Nazis to convince Germany to swallow their agenda because, for lack of a better term, Hitler's "favorables" looked pretty good even among his non-followers.

The same cannot be said for Bush. As long as 50% of us (or, for that matter, 45% or even 40%) hates him what he's done to our country, we are not going to slip quietly into POPULAR fascism.

-MR

[ElementaryPenguin]

6. Good point, MR. Our half better be damn active to stop Bushler!

:toast:

[Tamiati]

24. No slipping quietly

into popular facism.......it will all be rigged again which really is what scares me.....and what will become of us those who opposed so vehemently??

Paranoid?? DAMN straight!!

cuz that doesn't mean that they are'nt out to get us.....

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. You answered your own post when you stated that Hitler "took control....

...of the Reichstag with only a third of the popular vote". That implies in basic political science statistical terms that 66% of the German voting population disliked Hitler and the Nazi Party enough to vote for someone else.

In November 2000, Al Gore won the edge in the popular vote with Nader winning just enough to make the election much closer than it should have been. By December 2000, all similarities to a normal presidential election ceased to exist when the SCOTUS selected FratBoy to be the "winner".

IMHO, that means that FratBoy, who was NEVER elected in the first place, actually has a leg up on Hitler's early political career because FratBoy had close to 50% of the votes of those most likely to vote in 2000. Hitler only had 33% of the vote in 1933.

Kerry also has 50% or better of those most likely to vote in 2004. What Kerry DOESN'T HAVE is control of the electronic voting machines and that segment of the judiciary that has been approving the use of the so-called "felons lists". Does any of that sound like deja vu all over again?

[DeadHead67]

7. Don't worry about the people ! They'll wake up !

Look at the germans now, some of the MOST progressive. As to the present, and soon to be past, administration; Fascism comes and goes throughout history. Just think, Rush Limbaugh will be only an UGLY footnote, along with all the others of his ilk.

[tom_paine]

51. Yeah, look at the Germans now. But FIRST, they had to be whomped

into the dust with a BIG STICK.

Truth.

What makes you think these spitirual descendants of Hitler are going to be any different?

Oh, I know, the DEEP RESPECT the Imperial Family has paid to the Constitution and Bill of Rights since they sezied the nation.

:silly:

[mainer]

8. Read HOAX: Nicholas Von Hoffman agrees with you!

It's a thought-provoking, disturbing book just out by author Von Hoffman, former Washington Post journalist and now a columnist for the New York Observer. He spends several chapters comparing pre-Nazi Germany and the mindset of Americans today:

"Hoax:How America was suckered in by White House Lies"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/156025582X/qid=1087841230/sr=ka-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-1142538-9626218

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

25. Wow is he still around.

I remember him from the 70s...

[Jabbery]

10. The Birth is Over - Nazi adolescense has begun

The birth happened in 1994. Nazism in America is now almost a teenager.

[donhakman]

11. Hard rains a gonna fall.

.

[TexasSissy]

13. I do, too. Scary. Unbelievable.

[taquinas101]

16. Agreed . . . I don't see any 1963 March Around The Corner

In 1963, 250,000 Americans marched on Washington in the largest political demonstration ever. The final speech was MLK's I have a dream speech. I just don't see any leaders capable and willing to pull together that type of demonstration to bring awareness to the steady slide towards facism.

[Arugula Latte]

17. Well,

there were one million (at least) on the DC mall for the March for Women's Lives. That's more than one person out of every 300 in this country physically present. A lot of us are pissed off. We need to understand that we are in for a decades-long battle, and that we can never get complacent again.

[taquinas101]

22. One million? Is that even physically possible?

I was looking at pictures of the 1963 March with 250,000 and it seemed like people were standing shoulder to shoulder.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. It's A Big Place.

I was at the Pro-Choice March in April, too, and while I'm no expert at crowd estimates, I'd say there were easily over a million people there. Whatever estimates the media gave (300,000 on CNN, "tens of thousands"-KAFF!- on FOX...etc..) were severely low-ball.

Here's one of the few news images that gave an indication of the magnitude of the event...

[Deja Q]

18. Well, Norm Coleman is a Jew. Lots of people like him...

I agree with you on the rest. While I hear people speaking openly of the repukes and *, I have seen how Americans are blindly following along...

And when the rest of the world finally steps its foot down, there's going to be hell.

If we were a superpower that wasn't utterly dependent on foreigners for their energy sources or for their labor to make those cheap plastic products we consume every day, we'd be in a stronger position...

But, as it stands, the Saudis can remove their investments and/or stop the oil flow. Peak oil is possible. The rest of the world, if they haven't started, might just find ways to circumvent the need for "our" products. I say "our" very loosely because all the work is done outside the USo'A.

There's going to be trouble ahead.

[stavka]

19. 40% of the country vocally despises him! -This isn't 3rd Reich

If you really believe that...do something besides post on a left wing web site.

This country is slipping the wrong way; but we are a long way from midnight executions and ovens. To say so is foolish, and shows no sense of perspective.

[Deja Q]

20. It's anarchy, if not civil war. n/t

n/t

[NewEmanuelGoldstein]

32. Here's a quote for you

"By the time the ovens are built, it's too late. This type of thing must always be watched for so it never happens again." - Simon Weisenthal ~ on the rise of the Nazis and their 'final solution' for the Jews.

[Swamp Rat]

33. I've been to Dachau

I'm not gonna let this happen here without a fight. They'll have to pry America from my cold, dead fingers!!!

[iangb]

36. ..and only 44% of Germans voted for Hitler.....

..in the last democratic elections after the Reichstag fire in 1933........and that was despite a campaign highlighted by warnings of attacks by communist terrorists.

Hitler grabbed power basically by declaring a state of emergency, and suspending portions of the Constitution.

Bush currently has Emergency Powers granted to him by Congress.

Yes German Fascism featured concentration camps and gas ovens, but they do not define that system of government.
I wouldn't expect US Fascism in the 21st Century to look a lot like Germany in the 30's, and so far it doesn't.

[Southsideirish]

23. I have "self-censored" myself many times for fear "someone" may

be reading my comments.

[sleepystudent]

27. Godwin's Law=

The instant you bring Nazism or Hitler into any argument or opinion, you lose. It's intellectually lazy. I believe in Godwin's law. Whoever does this just sounds unbalanced and hysterical. And when I hear someone do it, my brain just shuts off to whatever they have to say. And you are using the deaths in the Holocaust as a simple rhetorical point, robbing those who died of their humanity. You also sound fatalistic, and that is not really necessary right now. What are you doing to fight them or resist what you think is going on? Besides making lazy comparisons to Nazi Germany on a bulletin board, that is.

In Summary: Yawn. I see how horrible things are, but instead of making a lazy comparison, at least try to do something about it.

[Eloriel]

31. Well, then it's time to unkink your brain

and LEARN something. Here's a a VERY small start:

"fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm


20 Comparisons by Barrie Zwicker
http://www.deceptiondollar.com/news/BloorRemarks911-03.htm

Fascism Anyone? by Laurence W. Britt
http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

March 16, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

The NASCAR Nazi
Bush is creating an un-American America
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/38/lost-washburn.php

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread (Aug. 03)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853#199877

The Reichstag Fire and 9/11; Pretexts for Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich
Includes: Parallels between the Third Reich and the Bush Regime; 9/11 and the Reichstag Fire; What was the Reichstag Fire; Nazis in America; Poland 1939, Iraq 2003
http://www.oilempire.us/reichstag-fire.html


Bush's 9/11 Reichstag Fire by Harvey Wasserman
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0913-03.htm


The Bush Plan for America: The Rise of an American National Security State By Jennifer Van Bergen, 14 December 2003 http://www.ftaaimc.org/en/2003/12/3232.shtml

1944: American fascism (re 1944 article)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=212387


Enough with the "_______ is worse than/ as bad as Hitler"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1730317


How Reagan Got Elected in the first place -- My little tribute
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1773894#1776990 (See Octafish post #33 for links to some books on Amazon)


Is U.S. REALLY like Germany in the 30's? (elementaryPenguin)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1772363#1772645
See also: Is US like Germany of the '30s? (Kayell)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1777406#1780958

Are we on the road to becoming Nazi's?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1784358#


Nazification of America Phase 3
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm


There's MUCH more out there, and many more DU threads as well. This is just a wee, little, tentative start. And oh, yeah, re Godwin's Law? Haven't you heard, "9/11 changed everything."

[Spentastic]

37. Spentastic's Law

Godwins law is bollocks. It's an attempt to frame "acceptable" debate and therefore itself a tool of the intellectually lazy.

Godwin's law of course should read

"The instant you inappropriately bring Nazism or Hitler into any argument or opinion, you lose."

If you can't see comparisons, you're blind.

[thebigidea]

39. well, then blame Bush. He started this "Saddam is Hitler" shit

[sleepystudent]

44. I know...

it's applicable to anyone who does it- I am not just singling out progressives. Anyone who does it sounds hysterical and "off" and I can't stand hearing it from anyone.

And I didn't realize that saying "Well, Bush did it first" is now considered a rational justification for behavior. Why would anyone want to do anything because Bush did it? Or sound like Bush at all? Strange.

[thebigidea]

48. "Why would anyone want to do anything because Bush did it?"

Because he's the President, and we must be bipartisan. We're making Hitler comparisons because we're supporting the troops. Or something.

[chefgirl]

50. Ok, so we wont call it Fascism

We all know Fascism is equated with Nazism, right? So, sshhhhh...we just wont call it that.

A quote that I always try and keep in mind in todays America:

>>Fascism is highly mutable: “…Each national variant of fascism draws its
legitimacy… not from some universal scripture but from what it considers the
most authentic elements of its own community identity.” (Paxton) American
fascism will be folksy. It’s anthems will be country-rock fight songs, not
military marching songs. It will drape itself in our flag (not Nazi Germany’s
flag). It will be Christian (evangelical and protestant, but not of any
identifiable denomination, and, paradoxically, somewhat ecumenical so even
certain Catholics will feel at home in it). And—this I must emphasize—it will
deny that it is fascist. Fascism equals Nazism, which is German and therefore
foreign. Our fascism will think itself all-American and not beholden to foreign
ideologies. They will deny that they are fascists and they will believe that
they are telling he truth.<<

How's that work for ya?

-chef-

[sweetheart]

34. all war is civil war

Like Herr Shroeder's moving speech at the D-Day 60th anniversary,
we now accept that not all germans are nazi's... something our culture
has forgotten. God forbid future generations will remember only
american criminality.

Amongst the 260+ nations of the earth, the USA is fast becoming
the "dispensible" one... a cancer, no longer a healthy nation, but
a malignant tumor on the earth.

To kill a cancer, you cut off its blood supply. A bankrupt nation
has no money to be evil with... and sadly, in collapse it will eat
its own children. (read: citizens).

The world is allied against bush... and the USA will go down if it
can't replace him, as this next election will confirm the crime from
the world's view... that the american people are really evil to
reelect him.

Getting extreme is of no help, however. Surrender and end the war
in your own heart. For every one of us who ends the civil war
within ourselves, fighting constantly that life should be different
and finally just accepting that perhaps everything is as it should
be at this moment in time... in accepting this deeply, we have
the peace and wherewithal to overcome the divisive plague that
rots away inside our culture.

Change the world one heart at a time. Vote them out of your heart
by accepting them totally.

[thebobartist]

35. what

I seriously hope you're kidding.

In my little world, we call that "overreacting for the purposes of getting attention".

Jesus christ.

[0rganism]

38. STOP HOPING for better! Instead, DO what you must to ENSURE IT

Hope is the enemy's best friend. Hope is poison to action. Hope is the B side of fear. Hope is the obstacle that prevents you from doing what must be done. Every second you spend hoping or fearing is a second of planning or double-checking or doing you lost.

Seek Clarity. Know, for yourself, what must be done to ensure the outcome you prefer, and do it. Then you won't have time to be hoping for peace or fearing the 4th Reich. That which we accomplish is done in spite of hope, not because of it.

Look to an example from your own post. Bev Harris saw what had to be done, and she did it, and she's still doing it today. For that, you admire her. What if she had simply hid from her discoveries in fear, and hoped that someone else would take care of it for her?

Now is the time for action.

[bobthedrummer]

40. Political apathy, mind control, and the social rewards of being a

"team player" in conformity to authority need to be rigorously challenged DAILY to combat this "good German" analogy.

If not, I think BFEE will surpass the horrors of the Third Reich-they've gotten away with taking OUR government hostage so far imo.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

[mvd]

46. I see the signs of fascism, too

But I think their base is dwindling despite the press, and I still don't think the military is only under their control. I think as long as are watchful and willing to fight them on their nonsense, there's a great chance these neo-cons will be foiled.

[Frangible]

49. Es ist zeit fur sauberen!

I've seen tons of dicussion from the "fair and balanced" reich wingers saying how we need to nuke the middle east, crush the muslim animals, etc.

To which I sarcasticly reply, "Yes excellent idea, I think you've found the 'final solution' to the mulsim question, but let's not talk about it until they're on the trains heading to the camps, if you know what I mean."

Oddly, I've found that shuts them up. As dumb as they are, appearently they can still be embarressed.

[Cleita]

52. Being that the Nazi Party was infiltrated in the beginning with

those from the fringes of society, many of them criminals, and Adolf himself not even being a German, it does not surprise me that we are experiencing the same thing. Look at the past of the Bush boys. They are no more than common criminals, who have had many brushes with the law that has been covered up. If they had been ordinary citizens, all of them would be doing time now.