NPR Morning Edition...gay marriage more of a wedge issue than we thought?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

I was listening to NPRs morning edition, where they interviewed a Dem & GOP pollster on the vote breakout, and trends.

But they also interviewed two undecided voters who did decided, and what would make them change their minds..

The undecided who decided for Bush was a black woman from Dayton, Ohio, who decided to go for Bush based on his moral issues, mainly because he wants to outlaw gay marriage. She said she would consider Kerry if he changed his position to match Bushes. She did say her husband was in the military (in Dayton that means he's in the Air Force), so there might have already been some Bush leanings there.

Anyway, perhaps this gay marriage issue might be more of wedge issue than we thought if it is able to peel off minority voters who are somewhat religous or culturally conservative.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

1. Im not talking about alot of votes here.

Clearly the African American or Latino community is not going to leave the Democrats en-masse, but in close elections in battleground states, shaving off a few % points might make the difference.

[RobertSeattle]

2. Some people are just stuck on that issue

My Mom (age: mid 70's) votes DEM (and will vote DEM) but she just can't handle "gay marriage" - it's visceral. For either a large minority or small majority in this country, they just can't handle the gay marriage issue. Give it 50 more years and people will change, but for now it is a quagmire.

[Terran]

3. They might get a small percentage of the Black vote with Gay Marriage...

but most African-American voters are smarter than that, I think, when it comes to Republican BS. It's not difficult for them to see the real deal here, which is that this is a distraction from issues that actually do concern them.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

5. Oh, sure, we are not talking about alot of votes here.

But Im thinking if there are even a small % it could be decisive in a very close election in a battleground state.

I do think that this interviewee was sort of predisposed to going with the GOP anyway given that military connection.

[kiahzero]

4. Yes, but that doesn't change my position

Just because a large percentage of the country seems to enjoy pissing on the Constitution doesn't mean I'm about to join in.

[LittleApple81]

6. I am sorry that this IS AN ISSUE to begin with. Everybody who wants

to have the rights of a couple (insurance is one important issue here) should be able to get a GOVERNMENT issued certificate of civil union. EVERYBODY: gay and heterosexual. The government should not be involved in marrying people. That is a matter of religion.
If, after getting their civil union certificate, they feel the need to be MARRIED they can go to their church for that. If the church does not want to marry them, then it is a matter between the church and its members-- and you are free to change churches.

But apparently the fundamentalists in many churches need to impose their rules on other people.

[classof56]

13. I agree with you

And I'm a fundamentalist Christian! But I see the reaction of my fellow Christians and how ugly and divisive the gay marriage issue is becoming, and I could write the book on how it's all going to end up. Beware the Constitutional Amendment the administration is proposing. My daughter the legal beagle tells me it's fraught with problems for everyone, gay, not, married, not. As you say, we should just remove the potential Pandora's box by establishing civil unions with all the rights now accorded married couples and let those who want their relationships blessed by their religion organization do it that way.

You're right, of course, that fundamentalists in many churches feel the need to impose their rules on everyone else. I don't much like being told what to do and how to think. Have walked away from a few churches in my life for those very reasons, and though I have a deep and abiding faith, it's those churches that have helped make me...

A Tired Old Cynic

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

8. I dont think the Democrats are going to give up on it.

The more weak-kneed ones will.

But if the Dems go down on this one issue they should go down swinging.

[mitchtv]

10. If Dems give up on this issue

They lose.
Of course they are called flyover states for a reason.The amendment will lose also.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

11. If the Dems give up on this they will be laughable.

The Democrats have taken a stand on gay rights, and this is one aspect of that.

If they cave in on this and other gay rights issues they will be laughable. The GOP will know they are dealing with a party of political cowards and will just be enboldened to press the attack.

[Beam Me Up]

15. Bullshit.

What would be laughable is Democrats pushing an unpopular loosing issue in the face of what is nothing less than the rise of fascist tyranny in this nation. I do not exagerate. This is a NONissue; a TOTAL distraction. Complete and utter bullshit.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

16. Its a hot button issue, whether you like it or not.

Wishing it away by saying its a nonissue or a distraction won't work. Thats the equivilant of sticking your fingers in your ears and going LA L A LA LA LA real loud.

Its an issue, and the Democrats are going to have to deal with it whether they want to or not.

[Beam Me Up]

17. Let the opposition have it. They're full of shit.

They aren't going to amend the Constitution to define marriage -- they are just feeding their base. What they are really out to do is set up conditions that will allow them to do away with the Constitution and any pretense of Democracy. Gay marriage is NOT a real issue.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

20. Uh, OK.

its not the real issue, which is why its being made one.

:eyes:

[Sapphocrat]

29. Thank you, beam_me_up...

...for calling my life a nonissue, a total distraction, and complete and utter bullshit.

But hey, fuck it. Why SHOULD you bother to rise to the challenge set before you by the Republicans? Why NOT let them continue framing the debate? Why waste all that extra energy on turning the argument around to show them up for the hatemongers and Constitution-rapists they really are?

Why SHOULD you force yourself to take a stand on an issue that doesn't affect you? So who cares if I'll never be able to marry my lover? Who gives a shit that we have to live 8,000 miles apart because nobody gives a goddamn about our nonexistent immigration rights, much less marriage rights? Hey, we're just a couple of sinful lesbians whose very existence is a slap in the face to God, a couple of radical feminazis who aren't exactly going to be bearing anybody's babies any time soon. And only one of us is any good for that nice, juicy California vote for Kerry you want so badly -- which you've got anyway, so, hey, fuck me and the horse I rode in on.

Just ignore the whole stupid, distracting, complete-and-utter bullshit NONissue, and it will just go away. And, as an extra-added bonus, so will us annoying homos! Hey, you're already guaranteed our votes and donations for Kerry, so why should you or anybody else give a fuck about our goddamned lives?

Sign Me,
The Unpopular Thorn in Your Paw

P.S. You don't need to teach me a thing about fascist tyranny. I live under it every fucking day, it in ways you don't even want to imagine.

P.P.S. I am constantlty amazed by the way all the naysayers fail to recognize the OPPORTUNITY we've all been handed to turn the same-sex marriage issue on its head, and use it against the Repukes. Even if you wish we uppity homos would shut up and go away, one would think you would have figured out how to use the issue to your advantage by now. But no -- all I hear is what a big, fat liability we are to the Dems. Taking NO stand not only alienates the queer vote the Dems NEED, but it hands the whole goddamned debate right back to the Repukes. STAND UP TO THEM! SHOW THEM UP AS THE HATERS THEY ARE!

[Scottie72]

30. This is the real hate mongers agenda...

Look at this site:

and remember to boycott VA!!

<http://www.virginiaisforhaters.org/>

As of July 1st I have no relationalship rights what so ever! I cannot even make a will, power of attorney, any type of agreements that purport a same sex marriage. We probably cannot get a joint bank account, my current lease is in doubt, buying a house together is now a fantasy!

This is the true agenda of the hate mongers.

[gpandas]

9. web sites like this are a start...

but we must be able to compromise or we'll end up 'dying defending our right of way'.

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. I don't think opposition to gay marriage neccessarily equals a Bush vote.

My parents aren't in favor of gay marriage, but there's no way in Hell either of them would ever vote for Junior. My dad's convinced he's the Antichrist :evilgrin:

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

19. The GOP is betting there is, but I think you are right...

The idea behind the GOP pushing for the various state-level constitutional referfendums is to tie the Democrats with this issue.

I think this might backfire as I can see people being really motivated to vote against gay marriage in a referendum, but "splitting the ticket" to vote for Bush.

This could be a risky strategy for the GOP, and one that opens up some interesting possibilitys for the Democrats.

[Beam Me Up]

14. I am gay. "Gay marriage" is a divisive issue. Drop it.

I agree with LittleApple's position above.

I don't even want to debate this issue. Given the HORROR that is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan and many other places, given the fascist tendencies of the neocon agenda, given the state of our economy, health care, educational system and on and on and on, "gay marriage" is less than a NON ISSUE to me. We ALL have a lot more IMPORTANT ISSUES than this one.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

18. WHO do you want to "drop it"?

Me? I'm not the Republicans.

The GOP is going to put this issue on the table, whether you or anyone else wants it there or not.

Pretending its a "non-issue" doesnt make it one.

[Scottie72]

31. The issue is on the table

July vote on FMA around the time of the DEM convention.

I will continue to lose sleep until the vote happens. I am scared that the DEMS will cave in, I am praying that they keep their backbones.

[aquart]

24. It can't be dropped.

It can be denied, condemned, betrayed, but it can't be dropped. This genie is out of the bottle. Why? Because of people with GUTS taking RISKS.

And shame on you for being frightened of a distorted little piece of trash propaganda.

[Beam Me Up]

27. Frightened?

Where do you get that?

In times of war -- and this IS a war, not at all 'politics as usual' however much those in denial would like it to be -- one chooses the battles one can win.

[AP]

21. NPR probably interviewed 200 people before they found that woman.

From everything I've heard, gay marrige is not playing out the way the Republcans expected. They can't even get their ballot initiatives passed because so few people care about it.

Furthermore, the Democrats have dealt with the issue brilliantly: they're all for extending all the rights of marriage to same sex couples (because they believe in making people's lives easier by giving them all the rights and obligations they need to function effectively in society).

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

26. I do think she was a bit of an anomaly.

She said her husband was in the military, so she is already in a fairly consevative, GOP-leaning subculture.

In any case, it will be interesting to see how this issue plays out.

[aquart]

22. Don't worry about it.

The Republicans assume minority votes are Democratic so they simply don't count them.

[Rockholm]

23. I'm Gay and I Picked Up My Marriage License Today!

Now all we need to do is get a justice of the peace and we are all set!
As far as marriage goes, one question for the social conservatives. Why is it that a church can marry but not divorce? See the state is involved in the divorce part as well as the marriage part. This is about equality.

[aquart]

25. Jewish temples do divorce, sort of. Has to do with a shoe.

Really. A man with a fucking shoe can divorce his wife.

Let's just say every religion has its flaws.

[leesa]

28. It's an issue to virtually no one, but our TeeVees tell us we care

Another non-issue to hide the crimes of the Bush Crime Family