bush wants to screen everybody for mental illness

[thebigmansentme]

and freepers are quite perplexed

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1157738/posts

Brave new world, here we come. I can't believe a Republican administration has proposed such an abomination.


This is idiotic.


Has Bush lost his mind?


The Conspiracy nuts will have a field day with this one. And they may not be so crazy when doing so!

[mopinko]

1. saw this on

randi rhodes board, also. amazing.

[mhr]

2. Two Questions About This Policy

1. Will Bush be first in line?
2. How will those without health insurance be screened without access to doctors?

Comment: Seems that leaving out 40+ million people from the process is a significant oversight.

[Eurobabe]

3. start at the top, and work their way down

n/t

[Vickers]

12. My thought exactly!

:toast:

Let ol' Flight Suit Boy be the first in line to prove his sanity....HAR!!!!!

[tom_paine]

4. Of course, the Freepers will fell better knowing "it will only be used on

THEM"

At that point they will fall right in line and begin applying for Testing Positions (like those old Poll Tax Testors of the 30s, 40s, and 50s, the results will be as rigged as an Imperial Amerikan Election) and Nationalizaed Neighborhood Watch Captaincies.

[salin]

5. *snort*... from the reliable source of WorldNetDaily

one would think the freeps would realize by now that the tinfoily WND is generally quite off base. Never, never repeat or send on a WND story until it has been verified in some nontinfoily, verifiable press.

[Journeyman]

19. First place I saw this reported. . .

was a British Medical Journal article posted here on DU in the past few days. It seemed frighteningly legitimate.

[salin]

23. I would have to see that article

and see that it isn't somehow linked to the same, single source - which is how a lot of crazy (and fake) stories get circulated. Too far out for me to believe - esp only on a WND item (which are notoriously wrong) - without additional (and verifiable) info. Not that I doubt you per se... just falls into one of those my own eyes would have to see it to believe it level of credulity on my part regarding this story.

[PaDUer]

28. WH site links...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/query.html?col=colpics&qt=screen+for+mental+illness&submit.x=20&submit.y=18

[KansDem]

6. Hey, Bush! "It takes one to know 293,027,571"

to paraphrase the old adage... :crazy:

[bleedingheart]

7. him first...bi-partisan commission to determine if he is as nuts

as I think he is...


by the way this is very scary

[hang a left]

8. You know someone brought the point to my attention yesterday

on this board that they couldn't find where, other than a headline, it said this. I searched and couldn't find it either. Anyone have a link.


""bush wants to screen everybody for mental illness"

[LynzM]

13. Search DU

There were probably 15 threads about this a couple days ago...

[Dark]

9. "The New Freedom Initiative"

WTF?! What kind of title is that? What the hell does mental health have to do with freedom?

[rfranklin]

10. Remember psychiatric care in the USSR?

Used to imprison and torture dissidents. This is probably the impetus behind the scheme.

[DebJ]

14. Hitler did that too, my husband says

[DebJ]

11. Wow Wow Wow. Freepers responses are great...looks like

Bush will lose a lot of votes over this one.

[JohnnyRingo]

15. Honest...I was typing my post as you were posting yours

Every day just gets better and better

[DebJ]

16. Bipolar disorder runs in my family; my son is seriously

affected. Diagnosing mental illness is extremely difficult, time consuming, can take years. Getting drugs that work on a particular individual takes just forever to figure out many times. As much as I agree that we need more social assistance for mental health care (first of all, stop calling it 'mental' health, it is a biological condition just like diabetes, damn it!!!!!), this is SCARY SCARY SCARY. HORRIFIC. 1984

[seventhson]

21. FYI - There is research that associates BPD with

nuclear testing and leaks from nuke plants.

Radiation damages the hormonal systems causing emotional problems.

We have all been exposed to man-made ionizing radiation of the types (radioiodine and strontium-90) that damage hormones-producing organs like the thyroid and pituitary

Halliburton is a nuke company.

They TELL us it is hereditary and genetic. They do NOT tell us tyhat THEY caused it and continue to every day that nuke plants and facilities are leaking and operating

See radiation.org for details and read some of the articles and books linked there (especially sternglass)

NOW they want to be in charge of mandating examination and treatment?

This is just like Nazi Germany and they will say you are sociopathic if you resist.

I say we are heading towards a NEW judgment of Nuremberg proportions against these vicous bastards (if only we can beat them back in November - other wise we are looking at a new Holocaust worse than the last one IMHO)

[depakid]

29. Hogwash

The scientific consensus is that bipolar disorders are hardwired. The genetic component is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and the differences in brain function can be seen on scans.

Talk to patients (and researchers) and you'll find that what separates bipolar people from "normal" people is their emotional range- i.e., the "types" and "depth" of their feelings, and their heightened senses during the hypomanic phase and the dulled senses during depressive phase.

Radiation doubtlessly can cause symptoms in common with many types of brain or pituitary damage- but that's not what bipolar disorder is- any more than it's what dyslexia is.

[seventhson]

41. Oh Please! Hogwash?

You can believe what the Bushes and energy corporations and medical establishment pitch, but I have looked at the data by epidemiologists and found it very convincing.

The fact is that "Most scientists" are corporate and are steered to conclude what these corpoprations want.

Thwe radiation factor in mental illness and other diseases is a crime of enormous proportions and its coverup is equally pernicious.

It is sad that you would encourage people to ignore this as a possible cause when you even acknowledge in your post "that radiation doubtlessly can cause symptoms in common with many types of brain or pituitary damage "

My point is that there are doctors and scientists and epifemiologist5 STUDYING this issue who are saying that it is NOT hardwired or genetic and that it is PROBABLY caused to a large degree by environmental man made radioisotopes damaging the brain and endocrine system. That is why it is increasing along with add etc.

[depakid]

42. I'm not going to argue with you about it-

Suffice it to say I have some personal and professional experience in this area and I'm about as anti-corporate and as ardent an environmentalist as you'll find.

Believe what you wish- I'm just pointing out that what you're claiming is at odds with all the evidence on bipolar disorders.

[seventhson]

50. Point all you want, that will not support what you believe.

I am basing my opinion on reseacrh and epidmiological studies by professionals I know and trust.

If you have NOT done research on the effects of radiation on the endocrine system and how that may cause mental/chemical disorders,then I think you are just blowing smoke...You are also dismissing an area of research that is critical to help us all with littl or no basis to do so.

My point is that most medical and scientific practitioners totally fail to examine this issue because of the "consensus" that absorbing radiation into your brain and hormone prosucing organs is not causing mental illness.

This is the corporate line and I think it is intended to delude us and protect the corporations from lawsuits and responsibility (not to mention what I perceive is an intent to keep us sick and disabled so that we do not resist effectively)

[mopinko]

25. not to mention

how many times a bp kid will have a paradoxical reaction to a drug. i'm in the same boat, and agree 100%.

[seventhson]

53. PLEASE read this chapter if you doubt what I assert on the radiation issue

http://www.ratical.com/radiation/SecretFallout/SFchp16.html




this link can be found at www.radiation.org at the web articles link at the homepage bottom

I have interviewed the author on the radio and worked with him. He is a serious and credible writer altho he has been steadily attacked by the right wing pro-nuke corporations and media

[Journeyman]

17. One way to view it: It's just a BushCo proposal. . .

and will probably go the way of our Mission to Mars or be lost in the same haze that obscures the "weekly" talks by the pRetzeldent to explain our Iraq policies.

[Dark]

18. Link.

I think this one is for real too.

http://www.os.dhhs.gov/newfreedom/

It talks about a mental health comission, but nothing like I've seen the freepers complaining about.

[Ms. Clio]

26. Thanks for the link--odd that among the goals is "homeownership?"

"The New Freedom Initiative is a comprehensive plan that represents an important step in working to ensure that all Americans have the opportunity to learn and develop skills, engage in productive work, make choices about their daily lives and participate fully in community life. The Initiative's goals are to:

Increase access to assistive and universally designed technologies;
Expand educational opportunities;
Promote homeownership;
Integrate Americans with disabilities into the workforce;
Expand transportation options; and
Promote full access to community life."

http://www.hhs.gov/newfreedom/init.html

It actually all sounds pretty innocuous, but with these bastards, there's always a catch.

And I wonder what this is supposed to mean?

c) The Commission shall focus on those policies that maximize the utility of existing resources by increasing cost effectiveness and reducing unnecessary and burdensome regulatory barriers;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/04/20020429-2.html

[seventhson]

20. Check out this freeper poll (they are slammin' Bush)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/index.asp?VIEW_RESULTS=Y&cookies=bchfgjmd344kmv59dk4kmfdkv95m95mv9095kmmcsd

Finally they are starting to get it that Bush is a total asshole no matter what your politics are

[donhakman]

22. If you are not nuts you have nothing to worry about

As freeper proponents of the Patriot Act used to say, "if you are not guilty you have nothing to worry about".

The only people who are crying that all liberals are clinicly insane are Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh and the like. Who listens to them?

Prisons in the form of hospitals were used effectively by Stalin, but it can't happen here.

[seventhson]

33. Yeah sure - It depends on who defines "nuts" if asscrack and Bush

and rumm6y and cheney get to call the shots then ALL od US are insane traitors to ne neutered and seperated out for "special treatment" (i.e. death in Nazispeak(

[PaDUer]

32. Vote on that poll...

Your link shows the results...here's the url TO that poll-

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/index.asp

[hisdudeness]

24. Just thinking

Isnt it our choice as Americans to be screened for this mental illness. It would just be another cost this country does not need right now. I honestly think that Bush has realized that he will be beatten down by Kerry and he's just getting desperate for ideas. I just cant wait for an October Suprise that he comes up with.

[redqueen]

31. Hi HisDudeness!

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[donhakman]

34. Sometimes the Government will tell you they caused it.

My sister died as a direct result of a radiation experiment while she was serving in the WAC. She was made to drink radioactive iodine. She was told to remove it from its lead container once the medical personnel left the room, and drink it.

By the time she died 22 years later they had removed her stomach, rectum, intestines and numerous tumors. She survived on a ATP solution directly to her bloodstream.

Carol Siddens was given every pain killer the Army could by: self administered Morphine pumps, Federal Marijuana and other analgesics and opiates.

In her last years, her grandson could be placed on her bed but she had no strength to prevent him from falling off.

The government did admit its culpability but no money to compensate for pain or suffering was ever offered.

As hideous as her slow death and countless surgeries were, she did receive far more attention than veterans who claim a Gulf war illness.

Relating our family's experience with the military in this tragedy to plans for the federal intervention regarding mental health, could in fact be an open door to experimentation, incarceration and death.

Now if you don't mind, I do not feel like posting anymore cartoons today.

[Generic Other]

39. what possible reason did they give for this "experiment"?

As far as I can see, your sister appears to have been murdered! My heart goes out to you.

And thanks for the cartoons you've posted for us of late. By ridiculing them and laughing at them, we can more effectively bring them down.

[Jim Warren]

27. Another Link

Headline:
Bush wants to screen whole US population for mental illness.


http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458

[salin]

36. Odd that a medical journal would use the following

as the basis for the story

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/summary-2004.html

I can't find anything that remotely looks like a plan to mandate mental health testing, nor mandate drug/therapy treatment.

Anyone know anything about this journal?

First the article links to the WH for the "source" of the concern for this alleged program/policy.

Then it links vague praise... but follows with a counter point item that moves towards the more ominous tone... but that counterpoint is from an earlier article... in their own journal? Then a quick perusal of the linked Whistleblower's statement - seems to focus on the collusion of Pharma (by political giving) to give preference in a program for more expensive newer pharma drugs. No surprise there, that is what the gopers are all about - give govt boon through gov paid programs to big corporate givers - and thus undercut the free market competition... But at least in the early part of the report there isn't a suggestion of required/mandatory testing (and treatment) for all. Looks more like corporate welfare/campaign finance scandals than anything else. Plenty to be concerned about in the report - but doesn't point to the claims in the journal (or the WND article.)

There seems to be no basis for the claim of "plans to test the entire population."

I would be very surprised if this medical journal were peer reviewed. Research journal peer review committees would catch the dubious claim in the title of the article and require thorough documentation or rewriting the article to be consistent with the information (per the over push on certain pharma products that are more expensive and gee just happen to be pushed by big political donaors...) that IS contained and verified.

[thebigmansentme]

51. odd

http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/FinalReport/downloads/downloads.html

http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/FinalReport/downloads/FinalReport.pdf

After only a few minutes of wading through the PDFs referenced above (primarily the second one, which was NOT ref'd in the WND article, but IS ref'd in the PDF they DO mention), I must say that I do not think they're being sensationalist at all.

In other words their article seems to me to be right on the money.

This is unbeliveably bad stuff

[salin]

55. Actually, no, it does not refer to mandatory testing.

hyperbole that completely distracts from a real threat looming with these policies.

Expanded outreach is typical policy... from a public policy direction - to improve any programs one has to work to improve identification of need - this is true of identification of abused children (but there is no mandatory house check to see which kids in America are abused), to identify children/families living in poverty that may need health/medical services (again - no actual door to door census done of each household to identify those in need.) Extrapolating from what is stated in what you link to "universal, mandatory testing" - is a BIG leap. Not even in the policy points is there anything to support that leap.

The real problem from a public health standpoint is two fold: 1) over reliance on medication to address mental health concerns (over counseling, over nutrition/eating, etc.) - think of the huge spike in the number of children taking Ritalin in elementary schools over the past 10 years... and expand that number and the type of drugs; and 2) the potential for corporate/political decisions to be made determining what medications are used rather than any medical evidence.

Attending to a shrill - nonstated threat both discounts ALL criticism (because, it isn't founded based on the language in the materials); and obscures the real fight that we should be preparing to have... (Based on the points raised above.)

[Dark]

30. Here's a link to the commission's actual report.

http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/comments_011003.pdf

[pathansen]

35. Well, his administration does cause a lot of mental illness

Such as tremendous anxiety and depression regarding
what Bush has been doing to our country!

[GiovanniC]

37. My Response is the Same As If He Asked Me To Jump Off a Cliff

"You first."

[rumguy]

38. he can take this idea and shove it up his ass

[salin]

40. Please see post #36 - I read the "journal" article from where this story

apparently emerged. Then followed the links in the article. Nothing seems to back up the claim in the title of a program/policy for universal mental health testing, nor mandated strong psychotropics. Based on the very shakey article, I would be very interested to learn from any medical field related academics if the journal is peer reviewed or has anykind of reputation.

The article (and related whistle blower case) does have a few points that are worth noting - but they aren't as sexy, scary nor startling as this newly circulated (apparently bogus) storyline. Seems there was a pilot program in Texas for expanding access and treatment - where there was suddenly more use of more expense pharma products that were not nec any better than existing (more affordable) treatments... and surprise surprise... those companies were big campaign donors. That appears to be the big story - more GOP pushed and sponsored ineffective use of public dollars in the form of big corporate welfare (that ironically undercuts the free market) to big political donors. But note - that has absolutely NOTHING to do with so-called universal mental health testing and drugging.

I typed the previous post as I read the BJM article, and pointed out the linked info they used to back up their story, the structure of the story, and the flaw in the story - esp per the headline.

[LynzM]

43. Agreed,

I didn't see anything in the WH info that made me think "mandatory testing for all citizens".... Your analysis is much more in-depth, and appreciated. But I agree, the pilot program in Texas where campaign donors affected what treatment people got ought to be bigger news. The pharmaceutical companies in this country have a scary amount of control and influence over what drugs are available and/or recommended, and at what price (tied in to insurance companies...) I should know, I'm diabetic. The amount of profit they make on the drugs that keep me alive is OBSCENE.

[thebigmansentme]

44. the title is correct

here is another article

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458

[salin]

45. seriously flawed article see post #36

there is nothing in the article that backs up the title they gave to the article.

[thebigmansentme]

48. yes there is. read the initiative

It says it wants to reach "Every adult with a serious mental illness or child with a serious emotional disturbance".

Now, let's apply some simple logic. Deduce a means for locating "every" person in that category without screening every person, period.

Take your time.

BTW, you might want to check out the President's New Freedom Commission on MH Report to the President Roster of Commissioners, which is referenced in the PDF that the article mentions.

I'd suggest starting on page 19 (of 113) of the full report. It goes on (and on, and on, and on..) about the "transformed mental health system" that is being imposed on the country.

I don't see any problems with the article. I do seem to see several people here who are either whistling past the graveyard, or, placing themselves into the role of hallway monitor, directing folks "don't look there, nothign to see, move right along

http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/FinalReport/downloads/downloads.html

http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/FinalReport/downloads/FinalReport.pdf

read those and then see if the article is being sensationalist

[salin]

52. policy speak vs actual policy/programs

goal is always to reach "all in need" - policy application then talks about expanding outreach... will find this language in education programs, early nutrition programs, etc. It is a huge leap to assume this means "national mandatory universal testing."

Just read page 19 as you directed. The early detection language, no implication of universal mandatory testing.

Does the potential for abuse exist? If we moved into a totalitarian government, yes. And as bad as these guys are, we are not (yet) in a totalitarian system.

The four recommendations - make common sense. Only ominous to those seeking to see the ominous.

The REAL problem that I see, which is endemic with the current bush folks, IS pushing pharma "solutions" when identification occurs. This presents to VERY REAL and present dangers: 1) over identification and reliance on medications rather than counseling and/or dietary responses (which for some makes a huge difference); 2) decisions made about which medications are preferred being dictated along political rather than medical rationales.

I do see some real problems. Problems which are consistent with what the Whistle Blower discusses.

But the mandatory health screening and drugging charges, sadly, are not based on any evidence except ... "it COULD happen" (and a lot of things could happen)...

This presents two big public policy problems: 1) because the charges are so unfounded (and shrill) ALL criticisms of the proposals get dismissed; and 2) all attention goes to the unfounded - while the real and very SERIOUS problem slips by (as we are almost immune to the level of political corruption, gifts to industry, and balance in public health that favors corporate america's wants over U.S. citizens' needs.

[thebigmansentme]

54. its one and the same

pharma companies want to make money. they will try to push their meds on as many people as possible. there is also a pretty clear intent to screen as many people as possible for mental illness, starting in school. yes, there is a potential for abuse, just like there is in a patriot act. according to your view you do not see anything wrong with patriot act either, since it's 'supposed' to apply only to terrorists, just like this is 'supposed' to apply only to those that actually have a mental illness.

[salin]

56. NO, the problems were STATED in the Patriot Act

the powers granted to law enforcement were encoded. Not just "a potential for abuse". Only thing that suggested it wouldn't be "abused" even though the powers were granted in the law... were the feeble assertions of Ashcroft that they wouldn't be and haven't been abused (and that has been disproven - why anyone would take his assurances was always beyond me...)

A rather poorly constructed Strawman - that Patriot Act charge.

Back to this - as opposed to the Patriot Act where the problems were codified directly in the law... Nowhere in this is anything written that even remotely looks like mandatory, universal testing.

Look at what is in there - and there IS, like the Patriot Act, areas of direct... not just of a big leap of logic ... concern. Has to do with the remedies (focus on medications), has to do with guidelines that will be drawn up on what gets administered (again specific to legislation), and the whistleblower suit - in the BMJ article - points to the evidence of such corporate abuse in the pilot tests. Those are real, present and specific problems/threats. Don't need to extrapolate to get to them.

[thebigmansentme]

57. it does

talk about schools as being focal points for screening. true, nowhere does it say that it will be required, but i think it's implied, otherwise why mention schools at all? let's just wait and see, and when mental health tests are a part of regular physical exam, you can write me a letter of apology.

[salin]

58. It isn't remotely implied

any more than universal body checks for abuse of children... oh - we don't do that... but we do require school workers, and other service providers who regularly are in contact with children to contact authorities if there is reason (eg physical marks) to suggest abuse.

The language used is no different than many initiatives - and those that hope to reach to serve children... go through schools.

[thebigmansentme]

46. lol

Has Bush lost his mind?

No, just his job. (A natural consequence of losing his constituency.)

Someone must have told him that the Mexican Amnesty didn't do the trick. This ought to do the job, though. I sure hope so. I'd hate to think of what they'd have to come up with if it doesn't.

[robertpaulsen]

47. Bush is doing this BECAUSE he's indecisive, paranoid & delusional.

And those aren't my words.

New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional
By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue

snip-

The carefully-crafted image of George W. Bush as a bold, decisive leader is cracking under the weight of new revelations that the erratic President is indecisive, moody, paranoid and delusional.
“More and more this brings back memories of the Nixon White House,” says retired political science professor George Harleigh, who worked for President Nixon during the second presidential term that ended in resignation under fire. “I haven’t heard any reports of President Bush wondering the halls talking to portraits of dead Presidents but what I have been told is disturbing.”

Two weeks ago, Capitol Hill Blue revealed that a growing number of White House aides are concerned about the President’s mental stability. They told harrowing tales of violent mood swings, bouts with paranoia and obscene outbursts from a President who wears his religion on his sleeve.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4704.shtml

God, I hope this is true. Let the bastard suffer on his way to meeting the same historical fate as his father.

[thebigmansentme]

49. p.s.

does anybody else feel like screaming if there is one more government program with the word 'freedom' in the title?

new freedom initiative...

what the hell was wrong with the old freedom ???

[donhakman]

59. Albeit Macht Frei

[salin]

60. Agreed... what would the GOP do without the words Freedom and Patriot?

there should be a law... that legislation titles reflect the content. So the "Clear Skies" initiative (which does not create clear skies) should be called "Legalized Corporate Loopholes to Allow Polution" initiative.

This program should be called the "The expaned prefered drugs over treatment, corporate pharma benefit act."