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Help me debunk: Clinton had 3 chances to catch Bin Laden

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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:48 PM
Original message
Help me debunk: Clinton had 3 chances to catch Bin Laden
My father, the faux news junkie tried to tell me this last night.

of course I reminded him of how long we have been actively looking for him and he actually seemed to grasp that concept.

But I will want to prove that all those allegations are untrue.

Can anyone help?

thanks!
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:53 PM
Original message
O'Franken factor just finished discussing/debunking
maybe you can catch the replay.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. I can't listen here- can anyone point to something in writing?
He said this "news" just came out yesterday.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, you should tell him to PROVE HIS ASSERTION.
Why are you trying to prove what "didn't happen?" Ask him for evidence of the Sudan doing that. There is none.
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cocoabeach Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Assume that your Pop has heard the tape recording of Clinton's
side of the story why he refused to accept a deal with the Sudanese gov't. It has played on Hannity's radio show more times then I can count. I guess that is the worse that can be associated with any admission.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's some info from Snopes..
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. THANKS!!! It even mentions Arlen Specter in there
My dad is back in PA and was telling him to vote him out this time!

I didn't think to try Snopes.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Debunking from Bill Press ....
Edited on Tue Jun-22-04 01:12 PM by 2004 Victory
Adapted from one of Bill Press's columns, following is an incomplete list of steps that Bill Clinton and his Administration took against bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

Compare it to the abandonment of Clinton's anti-terrorist policies by the Bush Administration over the first eight months of 2001.

1996

Clinton administration brokers an agreement with the government of Sudan to arrest bin Laden and turn him over to Saudi Arabia. For 10 weeks, Clinton tried to persuade the Saudis to accept the offer. They refused. With no cooperation from the Saudis, the deal fell apart. No media operation bothers to look into what influence the Saudis' old friends in the Bush family may have had in convincing the Saudis to refuse to cooperate.

1998

-- Clinton gives the CIA a green light to use whatever covert means are necessary to gather information on Osama bin Laden and his followers, and to disrupt and preempt any planned terrorist activities against the United States.

-- The CIA, under Clinton, trains and equips five dozen commandos from Pakistan to enter Afghanistan and capture bin Laden. The efforts collapse when a military coup overthrows the Pakistani government and installs a new one.

-- Clinton signs a secret agreement with Uzbekistan to begin joint covert operations against bin Laden and Afghanistan's Taliban regime. U.S. Special Forces have been training there ever since.

-- Clinton's unleashes cruise missile attacks on bin Laden in Afghanistan and the Sudan, following the terrorist bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Operating on limited intelligence -- at that time, Pakistan, Uzbekistan and Tazikistan refused to share information on the terrorists whereabouts inside Afghanistan -- American forces miss killing bin Laden by only a couple of hours.

-- Republicans (led by Trent Lott) and Naderites (led by Ralph Nader) accuse Clinton of only firing missiles in order to divert media attention from the Lewinsky hearings. A longer campaign against bin Laden would have stirred up even more criticism.

1998-99

-- Clinton sponsors legislation to freeze the financial assets of international organizations suspected of funneling money to bin Laden's Al Qaeda network, but it is killed, on behalf of big banks, by Republican Senator Phil Gramm of Texas. George Bush will later call for identical legislation

-- but only after September 11, 2001.

1999-2000

-- Clinton Administration, through press spokesman Joe Lockhart, goes public with warnings of a "general" threat from Al Qaeda. Clinton's intelligence agencies then stop cold bin Laden's planned "millennium" bombing plot aimed against the Los Angeles International Airport.

http://www.rememberjohn.com/clintongore.html

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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Just ask him to tell you when these alleged events happened...
that's all.

Burden of proof is on him, really.

Just tell him it's an internet hoax.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. If it was soooo important before 9/11 then why didn't Bush*
put everything aside, forget tax cuts and his other bullshit agendas and immediately mobilize the entire military to go get him?

Huh?

Why?

I want to know, since 'everyone' "knew" Osama had to be gotten.

And, why did he ignore the warnings in the PDB?

When they explain that, then you can explain what clinton did to try to get him.

AND OH BTFUCKING WAY, why hasn't Booosh gotten Osama yet??????????????
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. From the start....

First off...the terrorists and particularly OBL have grown as basic extremists against their own governments. Reaction to problems from the westerners have emerged relatively recently in history since our support of Israel.

But things really ramped up after OBL helped to knock the Soviets out of Afghanistan in about 1989...and we generally went south in his opinion. From this point on...things degenerated quickly in terms of OBL and AQ pointing to the US as an evil force in the world.

Keep in mind that up till this point OBL was fundamentally against the Saudis dealing with the west and very much against their being in bed with the US with oil exports... which have continuously increased over time and represent more than 10% of our oil today.

Now enter Desert Storm. There is plenty of evidence that there was a partnership of sorts between the US and the Saudis regarding the war. Thus OBL and company goes to an entirely new level of hatred.

Following the war, there are 100,000 or more Iraqis killed and further sanctions really get the terrorists motivated. The US is seen by them as absolutely contemptable at this point.

For whatever accumulating reasons, the Clinton admin sees various developments and terrorist attacks as an indication that OBL has reached a point where we have to really do something. Clinton orders seizing his assets and tries a number of attacks which are unsuccessful. Many argue the only way he could have been taken out was through a carefully crafted assassination plan, but the US is fundamentally against this in doctrine.

You might want to read this article as a background for this rising hatred for the US
http://www.robert-fisk.com/fisk_talks_with_usama_bin_ladin.htm

Now as Clinton has brought this to somewhat of a head, you have to wonder why the Bush admin didn't pick up the ball once they got in.

Do you really think it makes sense to go back and belabor over what was supposedly not done in terms of "capturing" OBL? How can the Bush admin talk out of both sides of their mouth in terms of dropping the ball with OBL and then say .....well Clinton had a chance but didn't get him?!

The moral of the story is simple. OBL has been watching the Saudis and their increased "corruption" of dealing with the US. Couple that with Desert Storm and you have all the makings of 911....which was effectively planned for years during the 90s. Some would want to believe that Clinton shooting cruise missiles at him was the real provocation for 911....but there is much more overall hatred for America's policies and war against Iraq and generic support of Israel that forms the core basis for 911. OBL had many a weapon shot at him during Afghanistan, and a couple cruise missiles wasn't really anything new.

In other words, the 2 Bushes have had MUCH more to feed the fire of overall terrorism.

Clinton's recognizing the problem which was emerging was pretty obvious. One could argue that we weren't "fighting terrorism" in the appropriate way back then...but now come soberly to the present and ask yourself if we're not even further fueling the fire (and in the process getting nowhere) with what is going on today!!!

When you put this all into perspective, you could possibly argue that expert assassinations might be the way to go...but the US has never really embraced such a plan....therefore their were "legalities" restricting what Clinton could have done.

Since the whole thing is truly a can of worms....you should be coming to the intelligent conclusion that the best way to minimize terrorism is to avoid the ridiculous wars as in Bush 1 and 2 and concentrate on homeland security.
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