What if: Kerry 49% - Bush 47% - but Bush

[BOHICA06]

wins the electoral college? Kerry takes his states big, but Bush eeks out wins by slim margins in enough states to win the electoral vote by 1, 2, or 3.

Is it Constitutional Convention Time?

[Howardx]

1. it will be

"get over it" time again

[Merrick]

9. ironic response from someone with a Guevara avatar

maybe a change is in order... just a thought.

[nodehopper]

45. I think he was being sarcastic...

As in us being told to "get over it"

[cjbuchanan]

2. No, it's time to hit the streets

And we will need everyone on the streets.

We would need to make the protests of 2000 look like very, very small in comparison.

[Dardi]

7. And what will that accomplish?

People will eventually need to get back to work, to pay their bills, to eat dinners with their families, etc. Whoever wins the electoral college wins the election. That's what our system is. And, due to the nature of the Amendment process and the power of small states, it's not going to change any time soon. If Kerry wins his states big and Bush ekes out victories in his states, that means Kerry ran a stupid campaign and should have used his resources more wisely in the battleground states where he suffered narrow defeats.

[Flubadubya]

12. Well aren't we the great pragmatist today?

Another "get over it" post. Friend, let me tell you, stolen elections are not taken very lightly by the offended party. If * manages to "eke out" a victory, someone had better look very closely at the voting process. Most people on our side are quite hep to BBV (black box voting, should you need updating on that) and will surely suspect the election was once again STOLEN.

It may take people out in the streets en masse to get to the bottom of the chicanery, but better that they do and uncover this nasty can of worms than to just sit back and get f*cked again like in 2000.

[Dardi]

16. The proposed scenario said nothing about cheating

It proposed a majority popular vote for one candidate and a majority electoral vote for the other. Could happen. Has happened. In fact, if Kerry campaigns heavily in, say, New York and California and the Northeast and Illinois, it will happen, just as the reverse could happen if Bush pushes hard in Texas and the Carolinas and other solidly red states. Either would be an idiot to do so but they would if popular votes determined the election. They don't.

Whoever legitimately wins the electoral college will not have stolen the election. Regardless of how the popular vote looks, they will have won it by the rules. Now, if there is legitimate reason to suspect cheating, that's another story altogether, but that's not what the original scenario proposed.

[Flubadubya]

24. You don't suppose the 2000 election was stolen...

do you? ...I didn't think so. :spank:

[Dardi]

26. Depends what you mean

I don't think that the Supreme Court should have taken the case in the first place or ruled as they did once they did take the case.

[tom_paine]

13. HORSESHIT! And I am not so sure that standing up to Lying Tyrants

is not a worthy end unto itself.

Of course, it could also mean that the Manual and Electronic Disenfranchisement Bushevik Startegies tested in 2000 and perfected in 2002, were wildly successful.

Would Benjamin fucking FRANKLIN "get over it"?

How can we do any less?

Sir, and I say this with all due respect, you can take your "please don't hurt me" and "it cant happen here" cowardice and shove it up your (COMMENT REDACTED).

Free America is awake now and Free America is no longer swallowing Imperial Shit without comment.

(our Leaders might be, but that is anothers tory)

[Dardi]

17. And what, exactly, do you propose doing?

Be specific. How do you intend to stand up to the tyrants and for how long?Seriously. I am interested in hearing your plan. You do have one, right?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dardi]

25. So, your plan, whatever it is

Involves lots and lots of paranoia and a bit of calling people you don't know "trolls." OK, hope that works out for you. And yup, I'm "anybody," or perhaps "somebody." I think that pretty much everyone is.

[tom_paine]

29. Already said I have no plan. What part of that don't you understand?

:wtf:

[Dardi]

33. And here I thought

You were just "keeping your own counsel." Being secretive and mysterious and such. And unfriendly.

[tom_paine]

39. Unfriendly as a Jew in 1933 surrounded by Nazis and those who

would happily clean the greasy soot off their windowsills every morning without a second thought as long as they had their SUVs, Reality TV, and their Cell Phones.

However, others who have mentioned that it is quite a waste of time to go round and round with you, have swayed me.

Don't bother responding to this post. I won't be able to see it.

[Dardi]

41. In 1933?

What greasy soot was that?

Just a few posts in and already on an ignore list. How unfortunate.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Flubadubya]

35. Oh how long must we endure?

I started to ask Dardi if she were aware of all the shenanigans that went on in Florida by Jebbie, Harris, et. al. to corrupt the voting process, to deny thousands of blacks their right to vote, etc. Did she ever read anything by Greg Palast about it? Did she do any research at all? Well, I thought better of it. I feel pretty sure I know the real answer. Like you tom paine, it's best at times just to throw up your hands and leave well enough alone. Don't think we're going to change anyone's mind here. :eyes:

[Dardi]

38. Changing minds is difficult

But at least you know the real answer, so you're way ahead of the game.

[Flubadubya]

40. Good for you...

you get the last word. I guess that means you win!

[Dardi]

42. Is that how it works?

n/t

[trogdor]

28. Not necessarily.

He's more or less guaranteed those big margins in most of the blue states, whether he campaigns there or not. For example, did Gore go to New York? Hell no; I doubt he spent one red cent here. He still carried the state with something like 65%. Kerry will do the same.

You can bet Kerry will continue to campaign in places like Colorado and Virginia - places where Gore did not spend much time or effort because he didn't have the funds to do so. I don't think he's being stupid - not at all.

[Dardi]

44. I didn't mean to suggest

That Kerry is or would be stupid. Just to say that if he wins a huge popular majority (and 49-47 is huge) anf loses the electoral vote, you'd think that he didn't allocate his resources correctly. The same could be sad of Bush. For example, if Kerry tried to win Texas and wound up losing by thousands of votes instead of millions, he would have mada a tremendous blunder while picking up many votes (and zero electoral votes). Winning the popular vote is noce but this is about electoral votes. The candidates have to approach the election accordingly. I expect that they both will (what Nader will do remains a mystery).

[taxidriver]

3. if kerry loses to bush, there might not be a constitution to convene about

[Anarcho-Socialist]

4. It'll be the last ever election in the US n/t

[BOHICA06]

6. So once every 100 years

is survivable, but don't make a habit of it!

[Dardi]

8. six years

good idea. I've been advocating for longer terms for a while. I don't know about the one term part, though.

[Yupster]

14. The Cofederate Constitution

had the one term, six years rule for president.

When they got together to write their constitution, they ended up writing pretty much the same one as the US. There were just a few minor changes. They even kept the electoral college for some reason.

One change was the six year presidency.

Another was giving the president the line-item veto.

Otherwise, not very different, The US Constitution has held up remarkably wel over time.

[Dardi]

18. I just think that 4 year terms aren't practical

President gets into office. Takes several months to get adjusted, get his appointments confirmed, etc. Then, at about the one to one and a half year mark, he or she starts fundraising and campaigning for the mid-term elections. Then, at the 3 year mark, (s)he's campaigning and fundraising again for his reelection (and all of the congressional elections). It just doesn't leave a lot of time to be President, regardless of the party.

[Rooktoven]

5. The right wouldn't it let it happen

I'm thinking secession of the blue states and a union with Canada...

[Dardi]

10. Wasn't something like that tried once?

Didn't work out too well, as I recall.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

11. Last time, the racist rednecks lost

[Dardi]

19. Last time

Over seven hundred men died and many, many more were maimed and otherwise wounded. Like I said, it didn't turn out too well.

[I thought so.]

15. No.

Go take a shit,feel better in the morning.

[I thought so.]

20. Well we should have voted Sharpton.

AL has charisma. He has the fire to change things. His speeches can make the 100 million that don't vote signup and vote for AL.

[Dardi]

31. Well, if Sharpton was the nominee

At least there wouldn't be any question about who won the election.

[Jim__]

21. If bush wins the electoral college, he wins

There's no time to change that before this election.

The real problem is, what if Jeb Bush depletes the Florida roles of Democrats again; & bush wins by a squeaker - or, they don't count the votes & give it to bush? What if the right threatens violence again and stops a recount in Florida?

Last time when the right threatened violence, the left did nothing. This time, we should be ready. Them right wing college boys will faint at the sight of their own blood. They shouldn't get away with threatening violence.

[amjsjc]

23. Then it's time to seceede from the Union...

I'm from CA, and it's becoming increasingly apparent that a Republican controlled US does not represent the interests of the citizens of my state. If Democratic candidates cannot win the presidency despite winning electoral pluralities (be it for structural reasons, or because of outright fraud) then it may be time to seriously consider abandoning the US. <Hi John Ashcroft! I trust your reading this!> Anyway, you'll never get 2/3rds of the states to agree to a new convention.

[Dardi]

27. Secede?

How?

[Bridget Burke]

30. I'm sure your Governor will lead you to freedom!

You and all the Californians who voted for him.

[amjsjc]

36. Oooh good comeback!

Seriously though, Arnie's a fluke. He only won because, frankly, he's a movie star and Grey Davis was the most unlikeable Californian since Nixon. Both houses of the legislature are solidly democratic, and every other statewide elected office is held by a Dem.

[troublemaker]

32. An elector or two might flip

or since in that scenario Kerry would have won a decent majority of congressional districts, one or two republicans might be tempted to flip.

There would be riots in DC. It would be quite a mess.

There would definitely not be a Constitutional Convention because it takes 3/4 of the States and the majority of States would have just benefited from the status quo.

[BOHICA06]

34. Hadn't considered that!!!!

Hmmmmmm, the election uncertain until certificarion...what, by the House?

[amjsjc]

37. Nope, electors don't flip

Not when it counts anyway. If none of them did during the last election, they won't during the next one.

[nodehopper]

46. but they COULD technically...

and they might if they thought there wouldn't be a next election if they didn't flip.

Not likely at all, but not 100% impossible. Everything is so insane that anything is *possible*