My "why Kerry asked McCain to be VP" theory

[abcdan]

I didn't like it when Kerry repeatedly asked McCain to be veep, but I now see an upside to it. I think it neutralizes McCain as a campaigner. Like the girl who rejects a boy's offer to the dance, she wouldn't rub it in his face by telling people she thinks his brother's cute. And if the brother breaks up with his steady girlfriend and asks the girl to the dance, hopefully she'll politely decline.

[sangha]

1. I like your theory

I don't know if it was the one major reason for it, but it does sound like an added benefit. It also made me realize another benefit - Every time McCain appears with Bush*, people will be reminded that the man Bush* is praising is also a good friend of Kerry's

[chimpy the poopthrower]

19. Sangha, I'm really suprised at you...

...falling for this. As so many others have pointed out, Kerry never asked McCain even once to be his VP. At least, there is no evidence that he ever did. Just rumors and speculation.

[sangha]

21. I know that

I just don't think it's that a big a deal, anyway. Even if Kerry had run commercials with him on his hands and knees begging McCain to be his VP, I don't think it would be so bad.

Well, maybe on 2nd thought, that would be a bit over the top, but you get my drift, I hope. Kerry and McCain are good friends, and IMO people will see this and the "offer" as evidence that Kerry can cut through the bitter partisanship that dominates DC. Independents hate partisanship.

[abcdan]

27. To everyone who said that Kerry never asked McCain

It's more than rumors and speculation.

Here's a snippet from the LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/whitehouse/la-na-mccain12jun12,1,7481730.story?coll=la-news-politics-white_house

"John F. Kerry had more than half a dozen conversations with Sen. John McCain about the prospect of him joining the Democratic presidential ticket, but the Arizona Republican repeatedly told his longtime friend that he was not interested, according to an associate close to McCain.

The Massachusetts senator broached the idea with McCain at least seven times, first raising it about 2 1/2 months ago, the source said Friday. All the conversations occurred over the phone but one, which took place on the floor of the Senate."

[Sinistrous]

29. Got corroboration?

I would like to see someone other than a retroglican hack confirm these conversations.

John F. Kerry had more than half a dozen conversations with Sen. John McCain about the prospect of him joining the Democratic presidential ticket, but the Arizona Republican repeatedly told his longtime friend that he was not interested, according to an associate close to McCain.

The Massachusetts senator broached the idea with McCain at least seven times, first raising it about 2 1/2 months ago, the source said Friday. All the conversations occurred over the phone but one, which took place on the floor of the Senate.

[abcdan]

31. The NYT quotes "people who have spoken to both men"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30A11F939540C718DDDAF0894DC404482

"John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, has repeatedly and personally asked Senator John McCain, the independent-minded Arizona Republican, to consider being his running mate, but Mr. McCain has refused, people who have spoken to both men said ... Mr. Kerry, the Massachusetts senator, made his first direct overtures..."


Granted, this story should should be taken with a grain of salt considering neither Kerry nor McCain confirmed it, but it's not as if Drudge was reporting this.

[Sinistrous]

33. I hate anonymous / unnamed sources.

and (just to cement my status as a nitpicking twit): did these people who spoke to both men talk to them about the vice presidency or did they just say "Hi, John!" a couple of times?

Damn! I'm in a strange mood tonight.

[sangh0]

36. You've misconstrued the NY Times report

The NY Times article you cite does NOT say that Kerry made an offer, or that Kerry asked McCain to be his VP.

The story says that Kerry asked McCain to CONSIDER being his VP.

Both Kerry and McCain deny that McCain was ASKED to be Kerry's VP. Both imply that Kerry asked McCain to CONSIDER being Kerry's VP. There's a difference between "Would you be my VP?" and "Would you consider being my VP?"

[ShaneGR]

2. Make the Republicans look fractured

If McCain was thought about, and possibly considered being VP, what does that say about Bush's brand of Neoconservatism?

Plus Kerry gets his name mentioned along side McCain's a lot. Don't forget what percentage of Republican voters voted for McCain in the Republican primaries of 2000..... can we get 5% of those to stay home or vote Kerry outright?

[arcos]

3. Kerry didn't ask McCain to be VP...

At most, he was a possibility Kerry was considering, but he never offered the VP slot.

[salin]

6. Right... but now it is suggested that he asked multiple times

so he never reportedly asks/offers... but is created to appear as though he was pitifully begging... what's up with that?

[JI7]

9. it makes news

notice the headline is different from the content of the articles which reported on this. the article said kerry never made a direct offer and mccain said he was never offered. mccain only told reporters he wouldnot accept IF asked. so reporters started writing headlines saying mccain turns down kerry.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. If I'm not mistaken...

Kerry has neither denied nor confirmed the story. The story is pegged to one or two anonymous sources. His stance is that he will not discuss the VP slot until he makes the pick. This is a double-edged sword. The fallout (opinion):

As strategy- keeps his options open. Rating: ambiguous.
Base effect- pisses off Liberals. Rating: negative.
Swing effect- woos centrists in both parties. Rating: positive
Overall effect- none. Rating: ambiguous.

As a Liberal it pisses me off that he doesn't just crush the rumor/story and scares me that a Dem would even consider the possibility, but as a realist I understand why he's playing it the way he is.

[oasis]

4. Excellent point. I think Denny Hastert has already been sucked in. He

called into question McCain's GOP creds last month.

[Sporadicus]

5. My Pet Theory on the Matter

He leaked the story that he was 'considering' McCain to mess with Karl Rove's mind :evilgrin:

I like your theory, too.

[comsymp]

7. Okay- but now McCain appears to have

"rejected" Kerry's alleged overtures and has come out in support of *. You don't think that reflects poorly (to the general public) on Kerry?

[sangha]

15. Yes, people are marching in the streets protesting it

They get even more pissed every time McCain talks about how they are close friends.

[comsymp]

18. And ain't it a shame

that McCain would reject his "close friend" in order to support the guy who trashed his family... Assuming that Kerry actually was courting McCain, that would have to make most thinking people question his judgement.

IMO, we don't need people "marching in the streets"; we need 'em driving to the polling places.


BTW, You never answered my question in Trumad's Green thread today.

[sangha]

22. That reminds me

Every single one of those protesters were muttering something about Kerry's judgement.

BTW, You never answered my question in Trumad's Green thread today.

I must have missed it. Remind me again. What was the question?

[comsymp]

23. Link to GP statement (not Nader, not DU Greens) about

no difference between D & R parties. Had heard it attributed to Nader but unaware of specific Green position- any help appreciated. It's undoubtedly in you "my posts" folder if you need more specifics.


Again, I don't give a RA about the mythical protestors. It's the folks watching CNNABCNBCCBSMSNBC who have to lift their dead asses from those comfy Barcaloungers and go vote, or squeeze a trip to the polls in between work & Cubby's soccer practice, who concern me. They're the ones who now believe that Kerry "got down on his knees" (or whatever your joking comment in #21 was- probably closer to the perceived truth than either of us would like) and was rebuffed in favor of *... by his "good friend", an ostensibly honorable VV whose major contribution to the system has been an attempt to clean up elections.


ON EDIT: link to comment in question:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1834703#1835774

[sangha]

24. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

It's the folks watching CNNABCNBCCBSMSNBC who have to lift their dead asses from those comfy Barcaloungers and go vote, or squeeze a trip to the polls in between work & Cubby's soccer practice, who concern me. They're the ones who now believe that Kerry "got down on his knees" (or whatever your joking comment in #21 was) and was rebuffed in favor of *... by his "good friend", an ostensibly honorable VV whose major contribution to the system has been an attempt to clean up elections.

I think it will lead people to think that if he's close to McCain, he can't be so bad.

BTW, I can't do search from here. I have no star, but if it has to do with the GP's saying that there's no difference, there's a GP website that has a listing that distorts the R and the D's positions to make them as similar as possible. I'll see if I can dig it up. (on edit: I can't find it. I'll try to remember to look for it tomorrow)

[comsymp]

25. BUT...

If McCain prefers to stump for * over sharing the ticket with his good friend, the argument could be made, then * must be better. If not an actively bad thing, at least a cause for question. Good Lord, 2/3 of the country still believe that there's a direct link between Saddam and 9/11! It's all about perception and spin- nuance need not apply.

Yeah, I'm starless too- edited in the link. You do make use of the "my posts" icon at the top of the Lobby and Forums, don't you? IMO, one of the more valuable bells/whistles Skinner has recently added!

[sangh0]

37. I'm not worried

If McCain prefers to stump for * over sharing the ticket with his good friend, the argument could be made, then * must be better

Committed Repukes will say that, but so what? It's not like they were going to vote for Kerry. The rest of the voters won't have such a reflexive and reactionary response, IMO.

Yeah, I'm starless too- edited in the link. You do make use of the "my posts" icon at the top of the Lobby and Forums, don't you? IMO, one of the more valuable bells/whistles Skinner has recently added!

I understand that, but I posted in trumad's thread as sangh0, and last nite I was sangha, so (last night) "my posts" wouldn't locate sangh0's posts. Check my sig.

[comsymp]

39. Ahhh-

didn't think about the multiple logins- I don't even pay attn to which handle you use-

As for your opinion about reflexive and reactionary responses, well,
1) gotta challenge your characterization- you seem to be implying that I believe that all the moderates and undecideds will jump up, shout "Goddamit, that's IT!!!", grab their torches and pitchforks and head for Boston.

Not the case at all- in fact, just the opposite. I'm pointing out that most folks still get their news from television and are likely to form their opinions from observations/"facts" gathered over time. This is just one more thing they may be likely to remember hearing about Kerry- on top of the reported flip-flops, VN accusations, elite multimillionaire lifestyle, SUV lies and anything the Liberal Media wants to throw at him over the next few months. That's one lesson that we should all have learned in '00.

2) hope you're right but am skeptical

3) I don't own a pair of rose-colored glasses. If my guy has any negatives, instead of playing ostrich I'd rather acknowledge 'em and then figure out how to counter.

[Eric J in MN]

8. McCain is campaigning for Bush. (nt)

nt

[greekspeak]

10. It certainly makes Kerry look like a uniter

and not a divider. What could define a uniter any more than reaching across the aisle and asking "the enemy" to be your VP?

[louis c]

12. Great Minds Think Alike, greekspeak

but you beat me by a minute

[greekspeak]

14. Sorry I beat you to the punch

But glad we are on the same page! :hi:

[louis c]

11. I believe that

the strategy plays well to the middle, even though McCain declined. The 10% in the middle want a President who can truly unite this country and is willing to take bold initiatives to accomplish this goal. What a contrast to the "Alienator" that's in office now.

[Gman]

13. Or was it a trial balloon

to show he is someone "everyone" can live with as I describe here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1837744

[mzmolly]

16. HE DIDN'T ASK MCCAIN TO BE HIS VP. MCCAIN HIMSELF SAID SO.

*SHEESH* :)

[comsymp]

20. Unfortunately, it's perception that matters

and anyone who watches MSNBCABCCBSCNNCNBC "knows" that Kerry really, reeeeeeally wanted McCain as his Veep- just like they "know" that Gore claimed to have invented the Internet and was repeatedly caught in lies during his campaign.

[mzmolly]

30. Well, I spect more from my DU friends...

*criminy* ;)

VERY GOOD POINT I MIGHT ADD! :hi:

[Lost147]

17. The way I see it

It was a brilliant idea and if McCain had accepted they would have won over all the moderates who are actually the ones that determine who wins an election. Think about you have the yellow dog democrats who will vote democrat no matter what which make up like 30-35% of the population and then you have the redneck conservatives that will vote Republican no matter what, they make up the same percentage. These two cancel each other out, its basic rule of math. You don't even need to campaign to secure the votes of these people. However, when you have the moderate republicans that could go either way. Many of the moderates disagree with what's happening. So if you take McCain on Kerry's side the moderate republican see's it as the perfect combo. You'd end up with the best of both worlds.

Think about it, what could Bush possibly try and use to run against that duo? The only backfire I could see with this is that you'd end up giving Nader more votes. Who knows if McCain had accepted we might have opened up a new era of compromise where politicians put the countries goals in front of the parties.

[donhakman]

26. Cute, but Mc Cain is campaigning hot & heavy for W.

yellow dog democrat

[stavka]

28. But KERRY DIDN'T ASK McCaine to be VP!!!!

He hasn't asked anybody....

[JBoris]

34. really?

I thought they had a private meeting were Kerry's VP offer was turned down

[newyawker99]

35. Hi JBoris!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Delano]

38. Kerry never asked McCain to be VP.

That's Kerry & McCain's storry and I'm sticking to it.

[Redleg]

40. I don't accept that Kerry offered McCain the Veep job.

From where did you get your info?

[eleny]

41. I think the whole story was a wingnut meme

n/t

[ibegurpard]

42. That many influential Democrats were more than happy to promote

because they thought it made us look so "reasonable" to the idiot swing voters. Now McCain is campaigning hard for Bush (and there are rumors that he could be on the ticket) and the "Kerry is considering McCain" rumor was left out there long enough by people who thought it was just TOO clever to backfire on Kerry by making him look like McCain rejected him and any Democratic VP is a second choice.
Bottom line: The Democratic Party needs to stop outsmarting itself and get back to the basics of promoting it's policies that are FAR MORE BENEFICIAL to the American public at large than the Republicans'.