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BeachBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:02 PM
Original message
Guy James Show topic this week: "You can't be a devout Christian and a
Republican too." Think that will stir them up a bit? I'm serious of course and I'd like any input you may have on the subject.

Throw in your two cents worth.

Guy
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morcatknits Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Its too true
I'm not keen on the WWJD approach, but in this case, its useful:
Would he torture? (Not even Arabs?)

Would he lie? (Not even to get out of military service, or to start a war?)
Would he cheat on the poor to play favorites for rich friends? (Not even for Enron?)

Would he take the little that the poor have and give it to the rich? (Not even to lower taxes for the rich?)

Would he cheat for worldly status? (Not even in Florida?)

Would he make war on people who didn't do anything to us? (Not even if Saddam were their leader?)

Answer for yourself.
If you need a crib sheet, the Sermon on the Mount would help. Stuff like "Blessed are the peacemakers," etc.

MorcatKnits
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Link to Sermon on the Mount
Edited on Thu Jun-24-04 07:57 PM by mandyky
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Bullshot Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Think about it.
Most of your mainstream Christian denominations have come out against Bush's Iraq war, they are against capital punishment, they support public assistance in some form or another, they oppose the corporate domination of our domestic and global markets...things that Republicans espouse.
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bush calls the rich "my base"--what did Jesus say about them?
Something about camels going thru a needle's eye? (Matthew 19:24)
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morcatknits Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly!
Couldn't be more appropriate.
MorcatKnits
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree, here's some cannon fodder
Not sure if it'll generate tons of rw calls but if so here's an email I sent to a friend. (Qualification, I am not a fundie. Probably more agnostic than anything but was raised an xian and took Jesus's teachings to heart.)

Warning, this is long:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


The "right" chokes on the beatitudes

------------------------------------------------------------

Ruth went to her mail box and there was only one letter. She picked
it up and looked at it before opening, but then she looked at the
envelope again.
There was no stamp, no postmark, only her name and address.
She read the letter:

Dear Ruth:

I`m going to be in your neighborhood Saturday afternoon
and I'd like to stop by for a visit.

Love Always, Jesus

Her hands were shaking as she placed the letter on the
table. "Why would the Lord want to visit me? I'm nobody special. I don't have anything to offer."
With that thought, Ruth remembered her empty kitchen cabinets.
"Oh my goodness, I really don't have anything to offer. I'll have
to run down to the store and buy something for dinner." She reached for her purse and counted out its contents. Five dollars and forty cents. "Well, I can get some bread and cold cuts, at least."
She threw on her coat and hurried out the door.

A loaf of French bread, a half-pound of sliced turkey,
and a carton of milk...leaving Ruth with grand total twelve cents to last her until Monday. Nonetheless, she felt good as she headed home, her meager offerings tucked under her arm.

"Hey lady, can you help us, lady?"
Ruth had been so absorbed in her dinner plans, she hadn't even
noticed two figures huddled in the alleyway. A man and a woman,
both of them dressed in little more than rags

"Look lady, I ain't got a job, ya know, and my wife and I have
been living out here on the street, and, well, now it's getting cold
and we're getting kinda hungry and, well, if you could help us. Lady,
we'd really appreciate it."

Ruth looked at them both. They were dirty, they smelled bad and frankly, she was certain that they could get some kind of work if they really wanted to.

"Sir, I'd like to help you, but I'm a poor woman myself. All I have
is a few cold cuts and some bread, and I'm having an important guest
for dinner tonight and I was planning on serving that to Him."

"Yeah, well, okay lady, I understand. Thanks anyway."

The man put his arm around the woman's shoulders, turned
and headed back into the alley.

As she watched them leave, Ruth felt a familiar twinge in her heart.

"Sir, wait!" The couple stopped and turned as she ran down the alley after them. "Look, why don't you take this food. I'll figure out
something else to serve my guest." She handed the man her grocery bag.

"Thank you lady. Thank you very much!"

"Yes, thank you!" It was the man's wife, and Ruth could see now that she was shivering. "You know, I've got another coat at home. Here,
why don't you take this one." Ruth unbuttoned her jacket and slipped
it over the woman's shoulders. Then smiling, she turned and walked
back to the street...without her coat and with nothing to serve her
guest.

"Thank you lady!"

"Thank you very much!"

Ruth was chilled by the time she reached her front door, and worried too. The Lord was coming to visit and she didn't have anything to
offer Him. She fumbled through her purse for the door key. But as
she did, she noticed another envelope in her mailbox.

"That's odd. The mailman doesn't usually come twice in one day."
She took the envelope out of the box and opened it.

Dear Ruth:

It was so good to see you again. Thank you for the lovely meal. And thank you, too, for the beautiful coat.

Love Always Jesus

The air was still cold, but even without her coat, Ruth no longer
noticed.
--------------------
If the right-wingers really studied the matter, they'd find they have more in common with Muhammad than with Jesus. Muhammad was a merchant, a businessman and entrepreneur - a capitalist. Before Jesus walked off his job, he was a carpenter, a common laborer - and with his talk of brotherhood, no doubt would have been a union man.

He hung out with the dregs of society: the poor, prostitutes, tax collectors, and finally thieves. Not exactly the kind of person to whom you would entrust your most precious and eternal possession: your stock portfolio.

Jesus revealed his anti-business agenda as soon as he threw the money-changers out of the temple. To the orthodox for whom taxation is government organized theft, Jesus' clear advocacy of paying taxes by "rendering unto Caesar" is a complete abomination. Scholars are still divided over whether the raising of Lazarus was to escape the death tax or an intent to pay it twice.

--------------------

Jesus mollycoddled the poor and went out of his way to condemn the rich. His warning that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to get into heaven was typical socialist blather. The affluent have had to devote themselves to breeding smaller camels and building larger needles ever since.

------------------
Jesus' purpose in life was to do the will of His heavenly Father. Wherever He went, He brought goodness. He never hurt or injured anyone, although He did get angry at others who did wrong. He called self-righteous church-going people vipers and once turned over tables in the temple where money-changers were taking advantage of the people.

Jesus was friends with the outcast of society—sinners. He reached out to the publicans, thieves, prostitutes. He never scorned anyone. He knew what was in the heart of a man (or woman). Just because they were religious did not mean that they knew God.

----------------------

Jesus challenged the Pharisees’ purity system by almost everything he did. It??s no coincidence that there are so many stories about Jesus getting into the everyday dirt and grit of life. Touching lepers, being touched by a hemorrhaging woman. Forgiving an adulteress. Going into an unclean graveyard to cast out demons and send them into a herd of unclean pigs. Eating with outcasts like tax collectors and prostitutes, and drunkards — all of those people at the very bottom of the Who’s Who of the Impure.

So Jesus came to confront the heart of this system — the temple — by driving out the money-changers and the sacrificial animal dealers; by exposing the profits and the kickbacks that the temple elite received “under the table” when he said that the temple authorities had turned his Father’s house into a “den of robbers,” as it’s recorded in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

----------------------

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments'" (Matthew 22:37-40, emphasis mine).

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:34-35).

The counterfeit Christ and his followers have long lists of "do's and don't's" that are preached as "Gospel." And everyone who doesn't subscribe to their legalistic list are condemned. We see them protesting with signs that read "God hates fags," "God hates baby-killers," and "God hates !"

But the genuine Jesus has just two laws: love God and love people. True followers of Jesus may not agree with the lifestyles and opinions of everyone (in fact, they shouldn't), but they will be the first to show compassion to those they disagree with. That's why Jesus hung out with drunks, prostitutes, "tax collectors," and "sinners." He loved people. He didn't love all their actions--and didn't join them in all their behaviors--but He showed them that he loved them. True followers of Jesus are not preaching against people with addictions; they are volunteering at rehabilitation programs at local shelters. They're not bombing abortion clinics; they're working in the pro-life Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

--------------------------

Jesus also had withering words for the wealthy who oppressed--or simply ignored --the poor.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort" (Luke 6:20, 24).

Genuine followers of Jesus have a sense of joy and satisfaction in who they are--at whatever "level" on the social or ecclesiastical ladder they may find themselves.

Jesus said, "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete" (John 15:11).

----------------------------

5. His earthly father was a carpenter, a humble hewer of wood with whom He lived and laboured, conforming to our human ways of life, custom, language and living that He might understand and love us better and communicate with us on the lowly level of our own limited human understanding!--He learned to LOVE Mankind. He saw their suffering and had great compassion on them, longing to not only heal their sick and broken bodies, but also to save their immortal spirits!

6. When the time came and He began his life's work, He went about everywhere doing good.--Helping people, loving children, healing heartaches, strengthening tired bodies, saving whom He could. He not PREACHED His message, but He LIVED it amongst us. He not only ministered to their spiritual needs, but He spent a great deal of time ministering to their physical and material needs, miraculously healing them when they were sick, feeding them when they were hungry and sharing His life and His Love!

7. He was so simple and His religion was so simple that He said you must become as a little CHILD to receive it! He didn't preach Temple worship, He didn't preach going to synagogue nor going to church, He didn't preach any complicated ceremonies or difficult rules.--All he did was preach LOVE and show Love, as He strove to lead God's children into the True Kingdom of God, whose only laws are to "love the Lord with all thy heart" and "love thy neighbour as thyself".

8. He had very little to do with the high-fallutin', rich-robed, churchy scribes, pharisees and hypocrites--the religious leaders of that day--except when they insisted on annoying Him with their critical questions. Then He would sock it to them, publicly exposing them as the "blind leaders of the blind" that they were, even telling them that they were like white-washed SEPULCHRES, which indeed appear beautiful, clean and holy on the OUTSIDE, but WITHIN are full of rottenness, corruption and stinking dead men's bones!

9. He was not a mere religious reformer, He was a REVOLUTIONARY! He refused to compromise with the false religious system, but rather worked totally OUTSIDE of it, reaching and sharing His Love with the poor and common folk who had long ago abandoned and been abandoned by organised religion. He never went into any bar with whip in hand, breaking up the bottles and throwing out the bartender. Nor did He ever enter any brothel, beating up the poor girls, overturning their beds and throwing the men out the window.--But He DID make a whip, go into their big beautiful religious Temple, overturn the tables, spill out the money and drive the money-mad money-changers out of the church, condemning them for turning what was supposed to be a house of prayer into a den of thieves!

10. He made Himself of no reputation, and was a companion of drunks and prostitutes, publicans and sinners, the outcasts and downtrodden of society. He even told them that they would enter the Kingdom of Heaven before the so-called "good" people, the self-righteous and religious leaders who re jected Him and His simple Message of Love. The power of His Love and of His appeal was so great and gave such great faith to the sincere truth-seekers that they didn't hesitate to drop everything they had and forsake all immediately to become His full-time followers!

----------------------------

From Matthew 25:

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are
blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for
you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to
eternal life."

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Jesus said
to judge not lest ye be judged; to love your enemies; whatsoever you do unto the least of these you do unto Me.....doesn't sound like the Repbulican agenda to me.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. This will indeed be a festive topic.
I'm thinking of a web site...."Liberals for Christ"...I think the guy who hosts that site has called you before and I use to see his posts here before the insanity phase.......


Since you are in the "Bible Belt"....you should get a lot of calls. Geeze.....just here in Ohio, Dayton area, you'd get a lot of "rage".....oh, Christian rage of course......I'll test the waters at work tomorrow....
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Slickriddles Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. What was the insanity phase?
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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here's the bottom line:
The born-again Christians I know (fine people all) have three criteria: Bush says he has accepted Christ as his Savior and that he prays to Jesus every morning; he says he is against abortion and homosexuality; he says he does not engage in sexual indiscretions. These folks are, I'm sure, Republicans, and Bush is counting on them for his base of support. Mind you, I'm not making judgements as to the state of his soul, or as to the truth of his statements about what he does or doesn't do and believe. I can only tell you what the evangelical fundamentalists base their judgements on, which becomes the basis for their support for Bush, no matter what.

This is my two cents worth. I'd be interested to hear what the folks Guy James talks with have to say.

Tired Old Cynic
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Actually...
George W. Bush has never, ever said that Christ was his savior. He said that Christ was his favorite philosopher.
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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Hmmm...
He sure fooled a lot of the RW Christians I hang with! I'll google this, but I could have sworn (yeah, I do that on occasion) he said Billy Graham (a man I greatly admire, incidentally) came to visit him and led him to Christ. Then I read that some preacher is Texas is taking credit for that. Since one only needs to do that once (security of the believer, a controversial theology to some), it's hard to say when GW experienced his conversion. Any time I've seen him talk about it, he really doesn't explain it too well...one of the reasons I've got questions in my mind about it, but since we're not supposed to judge the state of another's soul, I try hard not to go there. I do know that Jesus said "Wisdom is proved right by her actions". Not sure if W is familiar with that verse. Wish he were!

Thanks for the food for thought. Now I've gotta know more!

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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. Whee !
Sounds like a dandy show :D
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. He is correct.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here are some pretty good thoughts.....
Thoughts for today:

Things God won’t ask you.

God won't ask what you drove for transportation, but someday He may ask how many people you drove who had no transportation.

God won't ask about the square footage of your house; but someday He may ask how many people you welcomed into your home.

God won't ask how many clothes you had in your closet; but someday He may ask how many of the less fortunate you helped to clothe.

God won't ask how much money you made, but someday He may ask about the manner in which you made it.

God won't ask about your position in life, but someday He may ask about your life in that position.

God won't ask how many friends you had, but someday He may ask about the people to whom you were a friend.

God won't ask in what neighbourhood did you live, but someday He may ask how you did live in that neighbourhood.

God won't ask about the colour of your skin, but someday He may ask how you treated people with skin of a different colour.

God will not ask “Are you seeking Me?” but today He may be saying “It is I seeking you”.

God won't ask if you will share this with someone else. He already knows.
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BeachBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Wow! You guys are on a roll. Great stuff all!
I didn't expect so much very fine material. Thanks and keep it up.

Guy
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I sure hope someone brings up Moon being crowned
at the Dirksen building. The Messiah ! And Cheney using the F word to a Senator in the well of the Senate all pretending to be of good moral quality and christian value pretense. This went against the Roberts Rule of Order. Grat Values.....President of the Senate Cheney
saying F You to Sen. Lehey in the Senate ! Doesn't matter if it was in session...It was still on the Seante Floor..At order or not !
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kick !
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