HOLY CRAP!!

[wadestock]

What a week.

I started off with a post "how religious right is the country going"...as my attention turned recently to the religious aspect of the neo-cons following Ronald Reagan's funeral....with real concerns over the holy war aspects of Iraq, etc.

I did not expect to see the answer to my question emerge that evening ...as it were coming straight from God himself....

60% of all religious people polled support Bush.
33% not supporters....

Geeze...is it really that bad...I didn't know. Nearly a 2 to 1 ratio. This is extremely scary to me...as if we have coincidently and very dangerously hit on a bad formula of people's fears and anxieties as a result of 911 pointing us towards the guiding light of Reagan's good vs. evil argument.

The next evening I was further blessed with Pat Robertson's probing review of Clinton's new book which led him to the startling religious truth that Clinton was a hopeless lifelong pathological lier. I felt fortunate to be there for this historic religious discovery of the true anti-Christ, one of course who defies the bounds of Christ's own plea to forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us.

I felt myself potentially within the clasp of a true psycho-religious epiphany, almost ready to examine my own reasons for thinking things out rather and consider jumping on the religious right bandwagon....but...

Well hold on.... nothing happened because the next nite I am suddenly blessed by one who can see through this mirage of evil and convoluted thinking...

Well who was this amazing icon of truth and seuss sayer of knowledge and religious insight?

Why Reagan's son...
Did you see him on Larry King Live?

My mouth was literally on the floor during the entire interview.
My god if we could only harness this man's clarity of thought.

You may have seen the bombshell dropped during the funeral when he strongly implied Bush as one who could not hold a torch to his father and who was getting it totally wrong in terms of mixing his (alleged) convictions with politics.

Well during Larry's interview he explained this and more. I was suddenly purged of my evil ways by....well....someone who's an atheist. Actually, I wish he hadn't been so definitive on being an atheist. Of course he's being honest and I personally know this is part of the reason he can think so clearly, but I would have preferred if he downplayed ANY reference to his religious (or non-religious) persuasions.

But the most interesting thing I came away with was a true sense of just how bad this administration has become and how far tilted it has become in its psycho-religious attitudes. Ron gets that clear as a bell. I also had to calm even some of my hard core bias against his dad and start to think....hmmmm.....maybe the guy wasn't all THAT bad....and afterall.....what we're in the throws of today are a group of people that are USING all the apparently virtuous (although actually non-virtuous) elements of Reaganomics and "good vs evil" to do their dirty work.

In the end Ron said he WOULD support the democrat party. "Would it be Kerry?"...Larry asked. "Any viable candidate other than Bush"...said Ron.

Well how about Nader?
No, he's not a viable candidate.

Do you yourself have an political inclinations?
No....problem is I'm an atheist.

DAM!

[Warren DeMontague]

1. exact same reason that

I'm unelectable. :party:

[ThirdWheelLegend]

2. Ron is an atheist??

Or were you referring to yourself?

That is a big surprise and really raises my impression of Ron Reagan.
To come from the background he does and end up being liberal and an atheist.

And I agree, some of that interview that I did get to read was quite impressive.

TWL

[Az]

3. Ron outed himself as an atheist

And he sited the studies that suggest that if you are an honest atheist and do not hide this fact you are effetively unlectable in the US. Over 51% polled would vote against an atheist all other factors being equal.

[playahata1]

5. The week of the funeral I came across this exchange between Reagan Senior

and Junior from years ago. They were arguing about church attendance. Senior told junior to go to church. Junior refused, saying: "I don't believe in it, I don't buy any of it, so I am not going." Senior just said, "Okay, then," and left it at that.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

4. but that means 40% of religious people DON"T support Bush

that's quite a few and also it didn't state how many insane people support bush--he probably has 100% of that vote. I don't really see how those numbers mean anything.

[lapfog_1]

6. Heard Ron Jr on the O'Frankin factor

today.

God, what a great show. A whole WEEKS worth of good guests in one
shot... Ron Reagan, Micheal Moore, and Big Dog himself.

All three were great listens.

If Ron wants to run for a seat in the House in CA, I think he would
have a real shot at it.

[Booster]

10. Ron and I worked for the same network many

years ago, and, believe me, he is the real deal. Very, very nice and thoughtful man. Not like the evil stepbrother who uses his name to further his own career. Ron is very humble, but I really doubt that he would ever get into the political ring - not his thing.

[wadestock]

7. You go to church on Sunday....

then stab someone in the back on Monday morning.
It's been a convenient formula for many right wingers for years.
It really helps them keep their emotions and convoluted ideas in order.

What worries me today is the intensity of the religious mix with politics...taken to the absurd extreme if in fact Bush sees Iraq as a holy war....but actually I truly doubt this oil man thinks that way....although he's very effectively putting on a good front for many who do think this is a righteous war....and exploiting the advantages of this blind fellowship.

As my wife and I were talking during the week about such issues she reminded me of what happened about 5 or 6 years ago....BTW...the poor dear has been trying to find us poor middle aged soul searching protestants a happy home church somewhere here in Northern New Jersey for years....actually for what she thinks it might benefit my son....but hasn't been successful after trying a dozen different churches. Not being a church goer since my teens (now about 30 years) I was actually in an experimental mood to see just what had evolved in terms of some of the new faiths.....and for that reason it did have some payoff.

But after a few Sundays at what seemed to be such a nice small gathering that wasn't so much into it for the money (enough to support the minister and wife only)....which seemed to me to have the real ingredients for something to be authentic.... I walked out really steaming after the minister went on a diatribe (right in front of my 6 year old at the time) about how immoral Clinton was. That was it for me.

To this day I just don't get it. Defying the very foundation of Christianity in terms of forgiveness, give unto others...etc. It really is the epitome of the neo-con psycho-religious right in this country talking out both sides of their mouth.

[doni_georgia]

8. I know what you're saying

...there is a lot of ego around people's perceptions of their standing in their church. It's the religious world's answer to boardroom position-jockeying and corporate ladder-climbing.

A good friend and fine lady at a church we attended in 2000 commented before the election that "I just pray we get the leader we need, and not the leader we deserve." She meant, of course, that Al Gore was what we sinful Americans deserved (a liberal who didn't believe like good conservative Christians and would run this country to rack and ruin) and that Bush was what we needed (a good clean Christian man who would be God's own Apostle in power).

I see now that we got both. The Christian right has been so damaged by this fool of a President in the eyes of the world that their competence is in serious question - as it probably always should have been after the eight years of relentless attack on a President who did his job with great ability, great passion, and great flair, to say nothing of the many scandals, peculations and peccadilloes that have been spawned in their insular little world.

A mockery of a true Christian like George Bush was the perfect antidote to the rightward slide of this nation: we got to see just awful and heartless the end result would be, and thank God he wasn't nearly as smart as Nixon, or we'd be in much bigger trouble than we are now. It's apparent to just about everyone but the hardcore radical Christians - who won't change their stripe under any circumstances - that George Bush has cynically used and manipulated this part of his base as a springboard to power. They got what they deserved - the poisoned fruits and wasted harvest of a field sown with George Bush's tares. The nation got what it needed - a cruel, lying, thieving, conniving, cowardly would-be tyrant who could get himself into office but couldn't find his own ass with a map and flashlight once he got there. If this asshole couldn't wake us up, no one can!

Mac in Ga

[wadestock]

12. I'd sure like to believe you but....

look at those statistics....of those so called religious surveyed nearly 2 to 1 favor Bush.

I had a cup of coffee and thought about this some more. You know another powerful common denominator here is fear.

Think of the fear factor and how it was manipulated in certain regimes in history.

Think of the essential fear factor for many who choose religion because of fear of the unknown. How horrifying it is for many to consider that we are simply large organisms fighting each other on a spinning rock in the cosmos.

Fear is an essential component of religion....at least in the old testament....which was then significantly updated by Christ as part of the new testament.

Come to think of it....you could generally say that the right wingers prefer the old testament "eye for an eye" looking at religion....whereas the more contemporary democrats would see the "theory of relativism" as part of Christ's messages.

It really scares me that the neo-cons have co-opted the "fear factor" as part of a ploy to win over this apparent majority of religious people in this country....and that they probably intend to keep the "holy war" going as long as it works for them.

[The Commie]

9. The only reason the GOP wins is because...

They scare religious liberals (who live mostly in rural America) away from the Democrats. The repugs knew they couldn't inpeach Clinton, they just wanted religous liberals to come to the dark side by creating an image of Democrats as "Distroyers" of traditional values. That is why bush is trying to spin the economy, so the Religious liberals concentrate on social issues.

[wadestock]

11. Good point about destroying traditional values....

It also goes to the heart of the phony definitions of liberal and conservative....and what people have evolved to think that these really are the choices they have to make in life.

The liberal nametag and mannerism in which we tend to challenge the issues connotates a reckless abandon of moral direction....whereas the conservative nametag tends to associate itself with core values....and a very convenient way for them to avoid the real issues.

Problem is....as our culture becomes sicker....and people feel they have no where to turn....and with Bush feeding us with the thought that the evil boogie man is around the corner ready to invade our lives.....there is a tendency to make this serious emotional error (not thought out intellectually) that the neo-cons offer a "guiding light" through it all.