If Bush/Cheney resigns from Plame, is it Pres. Powell, Frist or Hastert?

[Dems Will Win]

If Bush resigns next month from the Plame case, along with Cheney, as predicted by FTW, Bush gets to appoint his successor and the Senate approves just like Agnew and Nixon giving way to Ford and Rockefeller.

see this thread on the indictments due next week:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x647133

I thought Powell at first, but since he overthrew them by starting the Plame leak investigation, and they won't trust him to issue pardons, it will either be Frist, Hastert or some other hack they can rely on.

I'm now seeing that Frist is the most likely choice if Powell is out. The Senate will definitely approve their own Majority Leader and he can be depended on to pardon even traitors on his final day.

What do you think Powell, Frist or Hastert?

Remember only Bush and Cheney get to choose. Nobody else.

[freetobegay]

1. Well according to a document we use to follow

Remember the Constitution? It would be Hastert.

[wellstone_democrat]

2. Uh, yeah, what he said...there is a legal order

it ain't up to the WH to chose (annoint?) successors! Not yet anyway...but it *could* be in the Patriot Act. But, who knows? No one but MM has read it...

[Dems Will Win]

6. No that's only in the case of death

Here's how it will work

1. Pres and VP named as unindicted conspirators and Fitzgerald sends charges of multiple counts to House of Reps. They are shocked and sit on them for a few days while the media storm builds as the charges include all the people killed as a result of the leak and the secret programs and multiple covers blown in energy intelligence and WMD proliferation.

2. Cheney resigns and Bush asks Frist or whoever to be the new VP. Senate approves after quick confirmation hearing.

3. Bush resigns a little later and President Frist is quietly sworn in. Next week he appoints new VP. Frist becomes the GOP nominee for Pres. at a subdued convention.

4. Kerry creams Frist on November 2. (He would beat Hastert worse)

5. On January 19th, President Frist pardons Bush and Cheney and Rove and the rest go to jail.

[iconoclastic cat]

15. For those who don't know, Fitzgerald is one of the toughest prosecutors

ever in the history of litigation. I live in Chicago, and I have been watching him do his thing for years. Let me tell you, he's like the badass private dick in a great film noir--he always gets his man. Bush is going down.

[AndyTiedye]

27. Will Bush Have a 'Saturday Night Massacre'?

If Fitzgerald gets to be too much of a bother,
they'll simply fire him and hire a hack
like Nixon did.

Unlike Nixon, Bush* has Congress and the Supremes in his pocket,
so no worrys about impeachment.

[Timefortruth]

33. Another possibility is immediate pardons.

I can see the press release now:

"We are a nation at war, distractions of this kind would jeopardize that effort. The accused are innocent, unjustly accused in a blatantly partisan witch hunt, therefore deserving of a presidential pardon....."

[beyurslf]

3. No a resigning President does not get to choose his successor.

If Bush and Cheney both resign at the same time, Hastert is President according the Constitution. If Cheney resigns, then Bush can choose another VP (think Nixon). Then, if Bush resigns (again Nixon), then the person he chose as VP would be President. This is how Ford became the only person to be president and vp without ever being elected into either office.

[Dems Will Win]

7. Actually they can

Until the minute they officially resign.

The Senate has to approve, that's all. It's in the history books. Agnew resigned, Ford appointed VP. Nixon resigned, Ford becomes Pres and appoints Rockefeller VP. All happened in 11 months.

This time it will happen in about 11 days (Cable New Echo Chamber effect and election year)

[starroute]

25. Would they really approave a new VP without serious hearings?

It took just under two months between when Agnew resigned and when Ford was confirmed. As I recall, Ford was regarded as an easy confirmation because he'd been in Congress for 24 years with no hint of scandal and no controversy. And all this happened in the fall of 1973 -- the period that included the Saturday Night Massacre and the 18 1/2 minute gap -- before the final push for impeachment got under way.

Do you really think they could push through a VP confirmation in less time now? Do you think they could find a candidate as squeaky-clean as Ford was? Do you think that even the Republicans would take the chance of committing to someone without knowing what skeletons he had in his closet? And do you think an indicted Bush or Cheney could hold on for that long?

To make things even more complicated, Congress goes on summer recess from July 23 to September 7, with both conventions taking place during those weeks. So you're talking about a scenario in which indictments come out (when? surely not before July 4?), a firestorm erupts, Bush and Cheney are persuaded to resign for the good of the party, a new candidate is found and quickly (?) vetted, and both houses of Congress (not just the Senate) vote on him without even a pretense of serious consideration.

You may have been thinking about all this when you said 11 days, because I figure that's the maximum of what they'd have. But I frankly can't see it happening.

[eaprez]

4. Hastert...

...WHO is prediciting the president will resign??????

[Jack Rabbit]

11. This is rising out of speculation about indictments over the Plame case

See this thread concerning a report on the From the Wilderness website that "explosive indictments" will soon be handed down.

There's nothing that says Bush is one of them. Actually, there's nothing in the Constitution that would prohibit the indictment of a sitting President, although Nixon, who had legal trouble in his time, falsely asserted otherwise (I believe Clinton also made this argument, but I can't find any documentation of it).

Whether it's a good idea or not is another question, but there is nothing that probhits it.

[eaprez]

12. Thanks....

....I think 'resignation' is wishful thinking. They are too arrogant to resign.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. I agree that they are too arrogant

Of course, Nixon was arrogant, too. He resigned when there was nothing else he could do to stave off impeachment and removal.

Let's say Bush and Cheney are indicted or named as "unindicted co-conspirators", as Nixon was in the Watergate case. There probably wouldn't be time to impeach them, but their defeat in November would be a forgone conclusion. They might choose to fall on their swords for the good of the GOP and its neoconservative wing. The Republicans would then have to scramble to choose a new ticket, but it would be their only chance (although not a good one). I think there would be so much chaos in the GOP that the Presidential nomination in those circumstances would be almost worthless.

[Dems Will Win]

17. Unless they persuade Bush to appoint Powell instead of Frist

Frist would lose

Powell as the first black President would probably win the black vote and the swing. Blacks would have to vote the first black PResident out of office!!

[Jack Rabbit]

5. Hastert

The line of succession after the Vice President is the Speaker of the House, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate and the Secretary of State.

Senator Frist is the majority leader. It would make more sense if the majority leader were in this line than it does for the President Pro Tem. The majority leader has real power, while the President Pro Tem is an honorary position that usually goes to the senior member of the majority party. The current President Pro Tem is Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska.

[clydefrand]

9. Is this all

WISHFUL thinking? Dreaming?

[Jack Rabbit]

16. It is probably wishful thinking

However, it's still a more real possibility than it was a month ago.

[Dems Will Win]

10. Sorry if I confused Y'ALL

The line of succession will not be invoked. There's no way. Only if Bush and CHeney die together.

Cheney resigns and Bush appoints a new VP, then Bush resigns (see above)

[Jack Rabbit]

18. No problem. It's still worth knowing

After all, there is the possibilty that Cheney would be forced to resign and Bush would also be forced from power before appointing a new Vice President (as if the unelected dictator has the right to appoint anybody). In that case, the power of the Presidency passes to the Speaker.

[I thought so.]

8. Don't believe FTW.

Only suckers buy his crap. Bush/Cheney will run this year. Above the law as they are,why would you expect anything else?

[lancdem]

13. FTW is not the only source reporting indictments are coming

[Hamlette]

19. Bush started an illegal war on manufactured evidence and you think he'll

resign over this?

What quadrant of the universe are you living in?

[Dems Will Win]

28. You missed the point that first Bush is named as a co-conspirator in the

CIA Leak and would face immediate impeachment, even in the GOP House.

The case against him appears rock-solid from the leaks hitting the INternet.

And don't give me source critiques. Madsen has predicted all this right down the line and the main media doesn't even mention why the President got a lawyer.

[Hamlette]

34. I'm not questioning the sources, only the conclusion

assume Bush and Cheney are named as unindicted coconspirators in leaking the name of a CIA agent to the press.

I don't think anyone will care. Least of all republicans. Who control the House.

Bush has spent 3 plus years systematically dismanteling the American way of life and it's unpatriotic to notice it, let alone impeach him. Plame is a non starter in America. Too complicated. Most Americans still think Nixon was forced out of office because of some burglary. They know nothing of the charges against him. Takes too long to read and understand.

What am I missing?

[Dems Will Win]

38. Ah, well that is easy

Nixon was forced out, he would have never left either except the GOP senators realized their whole party was in jeapordy and forced him out within a couple of weeks a little bit after the Smoking Gun

This is another Smoking Gun. Eyewitnesses saying Bush knew Rove was going to leak and did nothing. Fitzgerald will have the CIA testify the leak killed dozens and compromised key operations inside Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Mideast, making the spread of nukes to strike America more likely.

Fitzgerald is supposedly charging him with violation of the Intelligence Identity Protection Act and the breaking of Bush and Cheney's oath to honor and protect the country. In other words...

[Jack Rabbit]

20. Here's a nightmare scenario

Bush and Cheney are indicted over the Plame case, ending all chances of remaining in power. Before they resign, Hastert steps aside as Speaker of the House and the GOP caucuses to choose a new Speaker.

Guess who the next person in the GOP house leadership is. He would be Hastert's likely successor as Speaker. Do you even want to think about that?

[Dems Will Win]

21. Jack, you're confusing line of succession with the right of the President

to appoint a new VP if the VP resigns.

They won't resign at the same time, Cheney first Bush will choose his successor and make a deal for pardons and then resign, see?

[Jack Rabbit]

22. What deal for pardons?

There won't be a deal. There will be blanket pardons for all, including the Frat Boy, without question. Even Nixon had the sense of decorum not to pardon himself before leaving, but I doubt the Frat Boy has such scruples.

It would take several weeks to appoint and approve an new Vice President. The Republicans wouldn't have several weeks. The convention is about sixty days away and the election in just over four months. If Bush and Cheney are in the kind of situation in our hypothesis, they either take their exit as expeditiously as possible or risk dragging the GOP down with them.

[Dems Will Win]

35. You're right.

Except the PResident cannot pardon himself I believe.

It would happen quickly and Madsen who predicted last week that there would be developments Wed or Thurs and the Pres was questioned Thurs, and that the indictments would come before the end of the month which is Wed. VP resigns immediately and GOP confirms ASAP, within week or two Bush resigns and new Pres gets to appoint new VP.

If the GOP wants to save itself it has to move quickly on this. Nixon lasted 6 weeks after the Smoking Gun Tape.

[Padraig18]

23. 1.) Speaker of the House, 2.) President Pro-Tem, 3.) Sec'y of State.

According to the Constitution, assuming it's still operative...

[Dems Will Win]

39. It is NOT OPERATIVE in this case.

You are only talking death and the line of succession. WILL NOT APPLY HERE AS THESE WILL BE TIMED SUCCESSIVE RESIGNATIONS WITH SECRET DEALS FOR PARDONS ATTACHED.

[Warpy]

24. Right now, it's Hastert

who would be an improvement only because he's both lethargic and lugubrious and would likely just be a place holder until after the election.

The down side is that the RNC might be able to find a pretty boy who talks a good fight who might be able to fool the public into thinking he won't continue the disastrous economic policies of Bushco, when we know any GOPer likely will.

Nah, I want Bush/Cheney to hang on grimly through the whole election.

[Jack Rabbit]

26. Place holder

Yes, I agree. I doubt he would make any pretense about even wanting to remain President. The Republicans would have to scramble for a replacement ticket.

[AndyTiedye]

29. Aren't They Grooming McCain as the "Plan B Repub?"

He is about the only possibly-electable Republican if Bush* goes down,
and they've obviously force-fed him some kool-aid or installed the pod
or whatever it is that they do.

[Jack Rabbit]

31. I don't know

However, if I were a Republican, that would sound like a plan.

[mzmolly]

30. I haven't much faith this will go anywhere.

:(

[Disturbed]

32. Anything is possible.

I don't feel that the Res. or VP will be part of this indictement. It will be two people in the VP's office. The scapegoating will be in full force and these guys will take the fall.

[mike1963]

37. I'm afraid you're right. Scooter Libby is a prime candidate,

as it were...
:grr:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Hmmmm

Instead of this idle musing let's focus on replacing the Simian In Chief in November...


This is almost too silly to debunk but I'll debunk it anyway...


1) These investigations take forever...


2) As mendacious and stupid as Chimpy is I doubt he outed Valerie Plame..

3) The Senate and House are in Republican hands.... Presumably he would be resigning to avoid impeachment...

4) The Simian In Chief's poll ratings would have to be in Nixon territory, the high twenties circa summer 74 before the Republicans would ask him to resign...


Let's focus on replacing the Simian In Chief in November which I regrettably think is still a 50/50 proposition...

[Dems Will Win]

40. If you don't mind I will debunk the debunking

1) These investigations take forever...

THIS GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION ENDED THURSDAY WITH THE QUESTIONING OF THE PRESIDENT AND HIS PROBABLE TAKING OF THE FIFTH TO EVERY QUESTION (see John Dean article on this).


2) As mendacious and stupid as Chimpy is I doubt he outed Valerie Plame..

EYEWITNESS HAVE ALREADY TESTIFIED THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT ARE GUILTY AND KNEW ROVE WAS GOING TO LEAK. FITZGERALD WILL ALSO BE CHARGING THEM WITH VIOLATING THEIR OATH OF OFFICE SUPPOSEDLY FROM THE DoJ INSIDER DOING ALL THIS LEAKING. THERE WILL BE TWO FELONY CHARGES AGAINST THE PRESIDENT AT LEAST.

3) The Senate and House are in Republican hands.... Presumably he would be resigning to avoid impeachment...

MATTERS NOT IN THIS CASE AT ALL. THERE ARE SO MANY WHO WERE KILLED AND SO MANY VITAL ESPIONAGE OPERATIONS COMPROMISED, INCLUDING NUKE PROLIFERATION, THAT THE REPUBS WILL ALL FORCE BUSH AND CHENEY OUT WITH THREATENED IMPEACHMENT. IT WON'T EVEN BE CLOSE IN THE CABLE NEWS ECHO CHAMBER WITH INDICTMENTS HANDED DOWN AND DOZENS DEAD.

4) The Simian In Chief's poll ratings would have to be in Nixon territory, the high twenties circa summer 74 before the Republicans would ask him to resign...

THEY WON'T WAIT TO SEE THOSE POLLS, MY FRIEND. THEY ARE GOING TO GET HIM OUT FASTER THAN THAT.

THIS IS FAR WORSE THAN WATERGATE. CHIMPY WILL JUST TRY TO GET OUT OF DODGE AND HOPE HIS DEAL FOR A PARDON GOES THROUGH.

THAT'S ALL HE HAS LEFT--IF THIS IS TRUE.