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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 01:58 PM
Original message
Reality Check On Michael Moore
Thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, maybe millions seem to be all caught up in the hubris of Michael Moore. Me? I'm disappointed.
That's right - I'm disappointed in him. When we have before us an administration that has done so many injurious things to us as a nation that we don't have to embellish one damned thing, Moore has to go and do just that - embellish.
"Embellish,?" some may ask. Yes. Michael Moore has an agenda. He freely admits it, which is fine. I contend that a movie could have been made, call it a documentary, if you will, that could have put Mr. Bush in just as bad of light or worse, all without any disputable distortions. One such distortion happened when Moore solicits congressmen that he catches on the street near the Capitol to pledge their sons and daughters to the ranks of soldiers in Iraq. First of all, I have to say that that was a pretty disingenuous stunt. That decision is strictly up to the congressmen's sons and daughters - it is theirs and theirs alone to make. But even after one of the congressmen he interviewed told him sometime after the interview that his son was going to Afghanistan, Moore didn't pull the interview from the movie. But where he made his biggest mistake was trying to tie potential terror suspects to the flights filled with Saudi's that had top priority to leave the country after the shutdown of airspace was liffted directly after 9/11. This is a point that can be speculated on, but not proven. To me, and I hate Bush as much or more than the rest of you, that is a giant leap to make. The vetting of passengers on those Saudi flights was the responsibility of terror expert Richard Clarke. In a recent interview Clarke categorically denied the possibility of any persons of interest leaving on those jets. He said that had there been any questionable people booked for those flights, he would have detained and questioned them. There were no such people. This is the same Richard Clarke that all of us were rooting on and so eager to believe, when his book came out and he testified in front of the 9/11 commission, making the Bush administration look inept and foolish. Are we NOT to believe Richard Clarke now that his statements directly conflict with what Michael Moore supposes may have happened? Is he now a liar and it is Moore who is telling the truth? I don't think so. I believe that if anything Moore suggests really happened, regarding those flights, Clarke would have mentioned what happened either in his book, or in front of the 9/11 commission. He wouldn't have hesitated. But he was there, was directly involved and said there was no connection of persons of interest, possible terrorists and the Saudis who were allowed to quickly leave the country.
Michael Moore is a very talented and successful filmmaker, and his movie will be successful beyond his wildest dreams. The best thing he could have done for us though, would have been to scupulously vett every minute detail of the movie, so that no critic could dispute what he put on screen. As I said earlier, god knows Mr. Bush has given us plenty to wag our fingers at, without having to distort a thing. I think he owed us all that, and he fell short. In doing so, he runs the great risk of being not a lot different than those on the other side who embellish to make their points. These are just a few random personal thoughts, before everyone decides to "Reaganize" Michael Moore and nominate him as the Patron Saint of Progressives. For more, hit link below.



Joe Fields
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 01:59 PM
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:00 PM
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2. ummmm
welcome to du :eyes:


i, and probably most others here, don't share your opinion.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:00 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:00 PM
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. what she said.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. You got it CatWoman, this is Pure FEAR we're seeing
They are scared, scared, scared.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Love your letter and especially the blue crab story...I will have to
start calling the freepers blue crabs.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Lies, lies, lies
Nice try.

Where did you get your "information" on "one of the congressman?"

Where did you get your "information" that it was Richard Clarke's initiative to send the Bin Ladens out of the country without interrogating them?

These aren't "random personal thoughts," they're cut/pastes from rightwing liars.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Dude, it's called paragraphs (enter key). Look into it. eom
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:02 PM
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:03 PM
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10. Welcome to DU. The producers of the film, though
said it was stringently fact-checked and vetted. I think it's not as partisan as you might think.
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is all you got?
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 02:10 PM by linazelle
"...One such distortion happened when Moore solicits congressmen that he catches on the street near the Capitol to pledge their sons and daughters to the ranks of soldiers in Iraq. First of all, I have to say that that was a pretty disingenuous stunt. That decision is strictly up to the congressmen's sons and daughters - it is theirs and theirs alone to make. But even after one of the congressmen he interviewed told him sometime after the interview that his son was going to Afghanistan, Moore didn't pull the interview from the movie..."

Two words: STAY FOCUSED.

Moore asked if they would send their sons and daughters to Iraq didn't he? Iraq is not Afghanistan and a nephew is not a son or daughter.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. And a nethew is not a son.
Freepers play loose with the facts even when they are fact checking.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:04 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:04 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:06 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:05 PM
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. How about a reality check on your facts?
Because you are wide of the mark in several places.

You are incorrect about the congressman with a son in Afghanistan. He later claimed he has a nephew serving there.

You are incorrect in claiming that Clark "vetted" the Saudis who were flown out.

If you are so strongly anti-Bush, perhaps you could direct your energies into opposing him, rather than helping spread his supporters spin.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. what vickers said

and how long did it take to transcribe Lisa Myers puke?

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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Wait, what did I say? I don't see anything up there!
:P

Yer pal,

Vickers
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. "The vetting of passengers on those Saudi flights was the responsibility
of terror expert Richard Clarke."

LIE

Clarke approved only after the real vetters, the FBI/CIA told him that it was OK. Now who told the intelligence people it was OK to let them go?
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. About that "son" in Afghanistan
You said:

"But even after one of the congressmen he interviewed told him sometime after the interview that his son was going to Afghanistan, Moore didn't pull the interview from the movie."

Um, it wasn't his son, but a nephew. And Moore was interviewed by George Stephanopolous, who specifically asked him about that and the congressman claims he talked about his nephew going to Afghanistan in other parts of the taping that didn't make it to the movie. Moore flat-out told Stephanopolous that is a lie, because Moore has every moment of film that didn't make the final cut and that congressman NEVER said that on film. He contacted him much LATER to say it and it was a nephew.

Get it straight.
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Still_Loves_John Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. Gah, I hate this assumption
that documentaries aren't allowed to have a point of view. Documentaries ALWAYS have a point of view. It's like people think all documentaries are supposed to be like animal specials or something. Any kind of human documentary will have a point that it is making, and it's perfectly acceptable for Moore to have one.

And yeah, I heard a Republican on CNN say that one of his colleagues told Moore he had a son in Afghanistan, and it was cut. So was lots of other stuff. He only showed like three congressman, and only one for a significant amount of time. He says in the voice over that only one congressman has a child in the service, and then shows a few congressmen to make his point more poignant. He doesn't show every congressman except that one, he shows a few to make a point.

I love how Republicans can nitpick all these little facts in the movie, but can't say anything about the main arguments of the film.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. If "Skittles" sees this post
She will kick your ASS. You'd better pray to your Messiah lil George that Skittles doesn't see this thread.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:09 PM
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Damn Hippie Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. This thread is so stupid
I won't even dignify it with a reponse.

Doh!<smacks forehead>
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Neither has its originator
so far, anyway.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. Locking.
This thread has become a food fight already.

---DU Moderator
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