Why Didnt Kerry supprt the Black Caucas?

[Fescue4u]

A good scene in F.911 was the total lack of support that the Black Caucas received in supporting Gore.

But that made me wonder. Why didnt Kerry support them? Im guessing he wasnt in the Senate that day.

Im sure he had a good reason, but that scene in F.911 was heartbreaking.

[southernleftylady]

1. it made me think of quite a few senators who didnt support it... that made

me ill

[swag]

2. He who fights and runs away

lives to fight another day

[cjbuchanan]

3. I believe Kerry was there

However, the Senate told the Black Caucus beforehand that they were not going to support their efforts. They said that it was time to move on.

Can't say I agreed with them, but it was their train of thought.

[Fescue4u]

6. Thanks

I suppose it was a political decision, but nonethless heartbreaking...especially in 20/20 hindsight knowing what happened in the 3 years afterwards.

[leesa]

20. But WHY was in time to move on? So Soon???

Was our Senate involved as a body? Are they still?

[never cry wolf]

25. Exactly, by that time Gore himself had conceded

I personally wish he would have fought on, but he announced that for the good of the nation (?) the fight should end. As veep he was prez of the Senate for 8 years, prior to that he was a senatorial colleague.

I don't like it, got me VERY pissed off when I saw it last night, but Al just wanted it over.

fuck!

if only he woulda known.......

[cjbuchanan]

4. The biggest thing to remember is that Lieberman was a Senator

And he did not sign. He had a big stake in this. If he was not going to sign, then why would any other senators?

[Fescue4u]

7. wow.

Thats a damn good point.

[scrotim]

44. Gosh, I don't know. Maybe because it clearly was the right thing to do?

I know: what a concept in D.C.

[Liberal Veteran]

5. Perhaps Gore told them to stand down?

Gore is a classy kind of guy and he had thrown in the towel already for the good of the country (or so he thought at the time).

[Nlighten1]

19. Nope...

The Dems told Gore to stand down. A rather frightening scenario we have here now. John Kerry was in a position to stop * from ascending to the throne and he did nothing.

Now he wants our vote.

[Hamlette]

28. This is crazy.

Anyone who believes that a Senator signing the protest would have put Gore in the Whitehouse is rewriting history.

Please! This is insane. Why send it to the house and lose there? What in the hell good would THAT have done???????????

Nlighten1, you need to read up on the political process of your country.

[Nlighten1]

31. Maybe it wouldn't have but...

shouldn't it have been done even if it was a futile effort?

[RummyTheDummy]

35. Hindsight is always 20/20

Wellstone didn't sign it. Nor did Levin. If our most progressive senators didn't sign it, I sure wouldn't expect Kerry to sign either.

[hippywife]

40. I totally agree

Even if it was to be a futile effort, it would have at least signalled that disenfranchisement of black voters was not going to be something to roll over on. That at least should have been worth the effort regardless of the outcome.

[U4ikLefty]

32. Does that "political process" include

the Supreme Court deciding a presidential election???

Face it, the NeoCons went for blood & the Dems wimped out!!!

[Q]

49. A senator signing for the CBC redress...

...would have initiated a series of actions: hearings, investigations and debate. Perhaps it's YOU that needs to read up on the political process?

[Skittles]

52. IT WAS THE THEFT OF DEMOCRACY

AND NOT ONE F***ING SENATOR STOOD UP FOR THEM. HISTORY WILL NOT BE KIND.

[wyldwolf]

39. But... so was Gore

He could have told Lieberman or ANYONE to sign on... but he didn't.

And did Gore re-challenge Bush? Nope!

[mom cat]

22. Gore showed more character that day that the whole repuke

administration has shown since that day.

[scrotim]

45. Participating in one's own political rape shows character?

Hardly. It shows cowardice, and a preference for the niceties of D.C. political buddy-fucking over principle.

[Catt03]

23. Then Gore should answer this ...why

Gore was surely the "classy kind of guy" who did not fight for Florida.

Trust me on this.

[mistertrickster]

8. Political expediency . . . the bane of Democrats . . .

Tom Daschle, political wimp, must go.

[lapfog_1]

9. Well, the given reason

was that it would rupture the union, and the outcome would be the
same, as a successful challenge would put the election into the
House of Reps... and Bush would still win. So, with the result
not in doubt, the Democratic Senate decided that they would be the
"bigger" party and wait four years.

Robert Byrd is the one that I would have leaned on the most, if I
was the Black Caucus... payback for his years as a KKK'er, plus
he's old and doesn't really have to worry about his re-election,
plus he is just cantankerous enough to say "f*** it".

Also, I don't know that anyone thought that Shrub would be as big
an idiot, plus as hard right a leader, as he has turned out to be.
(However, I predicted it... based solely on his selection of Dick
Cheney for Veep).

But that scene in the movie made me have a lot more respect for
Gore... how hard it must have been for him to rule each one out
of order.

[Fescue4u]

10. I happened to have watched that event live

And Gore had to rule against alot more of them than is shown in the movie.

I felt sorry for Gore that day. The live event actually did a better job of displaying how difficult it was for him. (at least thats how I remember it)

[AntiCoup2K4]

16. Byrd's probably the one that regrets it the most.

Since he's been one of the few Senators to stand up to this cabal of criminals consistently, I wonder why he didn't do it then, to prevent them from illegally seizing power.

Even more surprising, where was Wellstone? Obviously he can't answer the question now, but why didn't he speak up then?

As for the appeasers in this senate, Daschle is hardly alone.....

[Lefty48197]

11. Why didn't Gore "support" them?

Or are you most interested in attacking Kerry?

[Fescue4u]

12. Attack?

Who's attacking?

[cjbuchanan]

17. I don't think this is an attack thread

I think it is a good question to ask. Why didn't Dems make a stand then? There are reasons, but you will never know unless you ask.

As far as why Gore didn't help, he could not have done so directly because he was not a senator. Now I'm sure that if he really wanted to push this, he could have got someone (I don't know maybe someone named Lieberman) to sign, but he did not.

As Gore made clear, he wanted the country to heal and move on.

Again, do I agree with that decision, no, but that is the one that was made.

[Fescue4u]

26. Thanks.

I certainly don't mean the question as an attack.

Just something that got me to thinking.

[never cry wolf]

30. Gore COULDN'T support them

As VP and president of the senate he is the umpire, his charge is to be impartial, even tho it must have been killing him inside. I will always have undying respect for the way he handled himself with grace and class, seemingly a trait of OUR party exclusively. In 20-20 hindsight (and at the time) I wish he, and his colleagues, would have fought harder.

He was the party's leader, their nominee for the top post in the nation, and he said it was time to stand down. Wouldn't have hurt to hear out protests, IMHO, but AL has more class in his little finger nail than the BFEE has ever had.

[Isere]

13. They were the true American heroes!

The Black Caucus were the only ones with the balls to stand up and fight in 2000. How well I remember their courageous voices and the stoney silence coming from the Senate. I wept then as I wept today when the scene was replayed in "F 9-11."

It made me think that we should all write to them and thank them for their courage. They are true patriots.

As for the Senate: SHAME on them!

Here is their address and their web link:

Congressional Black Caucus
1632 Longworth Building
Washington, DC 20515
phone: [phone]
fax: [phone]

http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbchome.htm

[bluestateguy]

14. Had Carol Ann Mosely-Bruan won in 1998 it would have been different

That election was more important than people realize. Had she been re-elected there would have been a black senator there who surely would have objected.

[Still_Loves_John]

15. I really think that the Democrats

were trying to do the right thing here. The election had been decided, and they did not want to add to the strife by signing off on a protest vote.

[Democat]

18. Where was Paul Wellstone?

Wellstone was one who would sometimes vote against what everyone else was for, where was he on that day?

It was very sad to watch that scene.

[preciousdove]

34. "No Democrat will vote to reject the electoral count."

"There has been a deal made." "There would be serious repercussions for President Clinton." "We can work with the moderate Republicans."

Statements made to a small group of us who went to Wellstone's St Paul office to ask him too reject the Florida and Texas electors as being illegal. Paul was on his way back to Washington for the vote.

They also said there were reasons they could not discuss. I felt they thought they were being honest but that what they were having to accept was at a gut level as hard for them as it was for us. There were three people initially but one had to leave leaving us with a woman and the former priest who advised Wellstone.

From the moment I saw the demeanor Bush family waiting for the election results it has been like looking at a slow motion train wreck as each day another car falls off the track taking with it innocent people.

[Nlighten1]

21. Very good question.

With Democracy on the line the Dems, Kerry included, didn't come to the rescue.

[rock]

24. Why didn't any Dem senator support them?

As I recall, the following week the Repubs who were then the majority party (50 Dems 50 Repigs 1 Repig VP) announced that they would equally share the power in the senate. Coincidence? You decide.

[Fleshdancer]

27. I have so many questions about this now

One of the things I want to know is why didn't I know about this when it happened? I'm a news junkie. Was this never reported or did I just completely flake out that week? Does anyone here remember hearing about this situation back in 2000???

I need explanations from the Senators. I certainly want to sit Daschle down and have him define the word "leadership" to me because right now, my guess is that he and I have very different definitions of that word.

on edit: I scrapped the last question because I found the answer up thread...I wanted to know what would have happened if a Senator had signed it.

[merh]

29. FYI - a link to a discussion of the vote or lack of support.

I don't agree with it, I think it is appalling that the Democratic party has forgotten that they are there to ensure our rights. However, it is a good point to make to those who question M. Moore's partisan movie. This definitely shows the Dem in a bad light too. Maybe F911 won't only be a wake up call to *&Co. Maybe the dems we have in office will realize how angry we are now that we see how chickensh** they were.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jan2001/cong-j08.pdf

[KittyWampus]

33. Best No Senator Did. Supreme Court's Annointing Junior

made his Presidency illegitamate. And highlighted the bias among the Supreme Court Members.

In the end, if things had gone through Congress, Bush would have won anyway. AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGITAMATE!!!

History works out the way it works out. We have the Now to change things.

P.S. I appreciate and applaud the Black Caucus for standing up for ALL of us.

[TexasBushwhacker]

36. The Supremes had already made their ruling

If a senator had signed the CBC submissions, it would have just prolonged the agony. It was obvious that Bush was going to steal the election by any means necessary. Still, I think that the disenfranchised deserved to have their votes counted, even if the the outcome wasn't going to change. I would have preferred to see the Dems go down fighting, but then I'm not a politician. They had to look at working with a Republican dominated Congress and Bush for the next 4 years.

[thebigidea]

37. well, the "agony" should've been prolonged...

... while they pushed for a full recount.

A bit of "agony" back there, and thousands of people would still be breathing.

[fujiyama]

38. How could they

have "pushed for a full recount"?

Not that I'm saying that the senators were correct for not siding with the CBC. I'm dissapointed that not Leahy, Boxer, Wellstone, Fiengold, Levin, H. Clinton would side with them.

As for Gore, fighting any more at that point it would have been meaningless. The Supreme Court had ruled already. Gore himself knew that there was nothing else he could do.

His mistakes weren't in keeping the fight going, but rather, not fighting smarter in the first place. He should have opted for a state wide recount in the first place. Rather, he allowed himself to be defined by the Bush gang and the media as "cherry picking" counties that would most likely get him more votes.

[Tellurian]

42. And if I remember correctly...

Gore's attorneys could have approached the state of Fla and requested a REVOTE. A REVOTE had been requested and done after a previous election had been bungled. (probably the test run for 00')

[Marymarg]

41. They couldn't sign it

because Daschle made a deal with the repubs and in return the Democrats were given leadership roles in half the committees.

[Tellurian]

43. And did you notice his smirk after saying so in F911? nt

[doni_georgia]

46. I think it was a position decided on by the party to let it go

I seem to recall at the time that there was discussion that to fight it would only harm the party in the end. I remember one news story about it at the time (can't remember what network). They interviewed Gore who said it was time to move on (or something similar). Face it, there are those out there who believe Democrats are whiners anyway, who would have had a field day if the dems had fought. I have a friend who is now supporting Bush, because she claims she was "turned off by Gore's whining after the election." WTF, I thought Gore gave up without a fight at all. But people have different perceptions. Some saw any complaining about disinfranchised voters as poor sportsmanship. I think in the long run, the result would have been the same. There were too many in the chimp's camp controlling things. We all know the truth, and now thanks to F911 many others know the truth as well.

[vetwife]

50. i agree Doni..I have this recorded from back then

It was a protest statement and no one even Max Cleland signed it because it thought to be futile. It would have thrown it into the legislature and I believe that is where it should have gone but some people in power, especially Gore believed it was all gone. Nothing could stop it once those votes were stopped. They were going with the electoral votes from Florida. Think about this. IF he had told them not to stand now and this thing had dragged on and Sept. 11 happened. We would have been blamed totally !
It was a protest act o the floor and they even said so off the Senate floor. I recorded it from C-Span back then. Once the supreme court stepped in, it was all over but the crying but I was crying then. It was a Protest for the American people. Nothing would have changed. You can bet Cleland or even newly elected Hillary would have signed it..But there wasnothing to do but protest.

[Strawman]

47. The House would have voted to install Bush

If the election were disputed and the House had to vote, they would have voted for Bush. I think the logic among the Democrats in the Senate was, we can't possibly win, so let's not create an ugly political crisis for the good of the country. Personally, I think this issue warranted taking a stand on principle, no matter how likely it was to ultimately fail. Remember too that Al Gore wasn't in favor of recounting all the Florida votes as he should have been. He would have lost had he gotten the selective recount he wanted.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. the whole senate was making deals for chairmanships

Kerry said he was not asked to go to florida during the recount and wouldn't have gone if asked.
But as far as signing that document...it was a done deal. SCOTUS had spoken and nothing could be done.

[Skittles]

51. for the same reason he voted for IWR and the Patriot Act

he did what he thought was best for his career, not what was best for America. F***ing shameful.