how are we so damn smart???

[soggy]

hmm...

so there weren't any wmd's after all?

so there wasn't a saddam/ al qaida connection?

so f911 blew away even the most extreme of box office expectations?

so, after the state dept found out that instead of terrorism being at a record low, it made a mistake and terrorism is now at a record high... it would seem that we're actually less safe?

so iraqis didn't greet us with flowers and kisses for taking over their country?



does it seem like du'ers are always, like, 6 months ahead of the rest of the world??? hey guys... ya'll have any stock market predictions?

[malatesta1137]

1. oh you mean

the left is right?

[Borknagar]

2. hmmmm

I'd say we here at DU and the rest of the world are six months ahead of the Republicans and their purchased media. It's funny how no one on earth believes the BS about Iraq but Repubs think everyone in the world is wrong but them and the idiots in Washington.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

3. just invert anything bush says and you get the truth

we just know that he is a liar

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. Some thoughts

We talked a lot about this the other night after seeing F911. I think that there is a danger in being smug and cocky about being right in this - sure, it feels a bit self justifying, but does not really fix things. I am trying to find a way to take the energy from all of the anger and apply it toward solving the massive problem.

Other topics we touched upon....in general, we (people in general) do not learn from the past....I work in a large Pharma company, and we've been trying to tackle "knowledge access and management" for years, but never really progress. I think that our ego gets in the way - we always feel as if we can do something smarter or better...the blueprint for the Iraq disaster and the current misadministration's whole approach is imprinted throughout history. Simply put - we don't - perhaps can't - learn!

Finally, we touched upon the fact that perhaps this misadministration is so completely screwed up and awful, the array of potential scandals is just too huge - too huge to process, to know how to track down - and for many people who have long lost their ability to critically think (due to Oprah and reality show - general TV - anesthesia) - too much to absorb. Denial is much easier. Defaulting to blind trust of the government is easier. It's been said many times, but we are living the Emperor Has No Clothes story on a daily basis. At least we can see his nakedness, and it is awful and horrifying to behold. But, the inability of the many others to see it is much more horrifying.

As to why the media is not promoting this movie more positively in its reviews - perhaps because the movie is so incredibly embarrassing and damning of the media itself.

Don't forget the key points from the movie - promote FEAR to keep people destabilized and needy. REPEAT THE LIES and people will believe them. And, it's all about POWER...MONEY...INFLUENCE.

[Eloriel]

6. Welcome to DU, but

don't be bad-mouthing Oprah. It's obvious to me you don't watch the show (or if you have, caught one of her few fluffier shows). She's very deep, very spiritual, very committed to raising people's consciousness.

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. About the Oprah comment - just my opinion...but.....

Yes, she has promoted literacy, great causes, etc - but I am against people on pedestals, and she has a bit too much of a following - and loves herself a bit too much - for my liking (in her interviews, it typically ends up being about her, or she interrupts interviews to draw attention to herself). To tell you the truth, I really don't like ANYTHING on television these days...prefer reading, movies and music.

[alittlelark]

28. You forgot to mention that you also prefer to post on boards

......like this one..... and perhaps others

[maggrwaggr]

15. really? That's why she helped Arnold get elected in CA?

I love ya, Eloriel, but Oprah lost me with that one.

[Tellurian]

18. And your point is?

Not being sarcastic or anything...but you lost me somewhere in the middle of your post. I totally agree with your first paragraph. However, it is human nature to decompress after a siege. Then return to full launch mode to keep the energy channeled in the right direction until the next siege is over. We're fighting little battles just to get to the Mother of All Battles...Removing the tyrant from office.

As to your second paragraph: compartmentalizing is the solution. WJC does this effortlessly. The mind can be trained to file information, deal with current problems, then access the (problem) files on an as needed basis. If I can learn to do it, cross referencing information to create an upgraded version of an old file, anyone can.

Third graph: We want them to remain screwed up and dioriented because we aren't in disarray. So far, according to my calculations, there is something on everyone in the top tier of the Bush Administ.. but for Hastert. That cocky sob should be next.

Fourth graph: Whatever their doing it's working FOR us..why change it..who needs validation for something we already know is Truth?

Fifth graph: stands on it's own. good.

[immoderate]

30. Good points!

Coming out of the movie, one of the friends I was with asked, "How could he get elected?"

Other than the usual stuff about no one ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the American people, I really had to wonder how he did get elected.

I said hey, Reagan got elected, they did it again. But that is not a good answer. If they did it before they could do it again. Scary.

--IMM

[T Bone]

34. uh, minor point, but the first thing F911 shows is that he IS NOT elected

Everything he has done has been done with no electoral legitimacy.

[immoderate]

37. Funny that's what my friend said.

But still, he got ALMOST enough votes to be elected, so how can we explain that?

--IMM

[Tellurian]

38. Yes, I've had 8 yrs of Constitutional Law and have at times wondered

why the Dems haven't requested Const. Scholars research the incumbency of the Law to follow the Amendments regarding the presidency when presidential authority in the Constitution is clearly prefaced on the foundation of a "duly" elected president/vice president (by the people).

It would seem to me, the House of Representatives would not be the proper place to request (Impeachment) as the next step for removal...but to the place from whence this resident CEO came, The SCOTUS...requesting his removal until a duly elected president could serve.. (adding my own thought) and the country shall be presided over by the last duly elected president until then.

[Gildor Inglorion]

5. Hey, soggy, Borknagar, nctomatoman... welcome to DU!

I LOVE seeing new members making excellent posts! Thanks and keep up the good work.

[HEyHEY]

7. Because repukes live on belief

We live on reason. They grow up swallowing the american dream and shit like that. Then when it comes to something like Iraq, they just have this faith that what they're doing is right, and they're right. Just because they're american.

[prodigal_green]

9. Because we READ

We read everything we can get our hands on, including international press, the "other" side's propaganda, history books, etc. Plus, we're skeptical as hell about anything that is released by "official" sources, whether they be left or right.

As you spend more time here, you'll notice a very high rate of literacy (and a much better grasp of spelling) than rw sites.

Moore's movie was made using footage and information available to all. The only thing I wasn't aware of and for some reason hadn't heard somewhere else before in F9/11 was the fact that not a single senator would sign the Congressional Black Caucus objection. I burst into tears when I saw that part.

And, like another poster said, basically, everything out of their collective mouth is a lie, so ipso facto...

[unkachuck]

10. If we're so smart.....

....how come Repub's got all the power and we got our noses pressed to the window looking in?....

I don't under-estimate for one second, BushCo's ability to turn this election in the last 3 weeks, with crap that will refocus peoples' 'attention'.....

'Rally around the Prez in a crisis' phenomena is a tough nut to crack....

[BeFree]

14. Repubs power

The power of the pubs is stolen power. Gore is the truly elected President, and the 2002 election was corrupted by the computerized voting.

The real problem we face, besides the sheeple being who they are, is the rampant fear prevading America. Let's face it... America should be fearful. The enemies we have made around the world in just the last 3 years are significant, and committed to having their revenge.

We should all be asking ourselves this: What will we do if a situation is trumped up just before this election? Will we take it to the streets or will we slump back into a corner the way we did after the 2000 selection?

What we do will be the telling point of this generation.

[maggrwaggr]

16. well being smart got my ass kicked in Jr. High as well

Bushco has turned America into one big eighth grade food fight.

It doesn't mean might is right.

It just means the bullies have taken over the classroom.

[BattyDem]

11. We read, we think and we debate ...

and they don't. 'Nuff said. ;-)

[AussieInCA]

12. DU does a lot of researching..compared to freeper idiots hannity/rush lies

[BattyDem]

13. That's true. We always do the research ....

because we want accurate information, even if it doesn't support our beliefs. We're willing to re-think our positions, and adjust them if necessary, as we get more information.

They never do the research because Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, etc., say exactly what they want to hear. Ignorance is bliss for them.

[maggrwaggr]

17. I have actually encountered evil people in my life

and they fuck people over quite easily for two reasons:

1. Nobody ever thinks they're really THAT evil. They often seem rather like buffons whom it is difficult to take seriously.

2. They simply do what they do, and everybody is shocked, everybody is too polite to stand up to them, everybody expects somebody ELSE to stop them. Nobody ever does. Usually the evil people self-destruct from their own stupidity and short-sightedness.

In the process, many many people get hurt.

What I've learned is that the only way to deal with them is by brute force, basically to take their rights away, so they don't have the freedom the rest of us have. They abuse their freedom as human beings to injure others. Nothing stops them except force and their own self-destruction.

Oh, the other thing (a third thing I guess) is that when I've dealt with such people, everybody who is affected by them just can't believe that they think they can get away with what they're doing. Everybody is like "Do they really think we're that STUPID?"

[Spazito]

19. Knowledge is the key to the gate that leads to understanding, imo

Here are some great quotes about knowledge that we all would do well to heed, imo:

If we value the pursuit of knowledge, we must be free to follow wherever that search may lead us. The free mind is not a barking dog, to be tethered on a ten-foot chain.
Adlai E. Stevenson Jr. (1900 - 1965), speech at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, October 8, 1952

All men by nature desire knowledge.
Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC), Metaphysics

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), Sybil, 1845

When you know a thing, to hold that you know it; and when you do not know a thing, to allow that you do not know it - this is knowledge.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC), The Confucian Analects

It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge.
Enrico Fermi (1901 - 1954)

The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand.
Frank Herbert (1920 - 1986)

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

His priority did not seem to be to teach them what he knew, but rather to impress upon them that nothing, not even... knowledge, was foolproof.
J. K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.
Lao-tzu (604 BC - 531 BC), The Way of Lao-tzu
(I think bush would agree with this one ergo No Child Left Behind is to ensure that knowledge is NOT imparted upon the child.)

If you have knowledge, let others light their candles at it.
Margaret Fuller (1810 - 1850)


The difference between DUers and other, imo, is that DUers value knowledge, other value propaganda.

[Tellurian]

20. Spaz...wonderful quote by Wes Clark in your sig line..

"Freedom and dignity spring from within the human heart.
They are not imposed. And inside the human heart is
where the impetus for political change must be generated." Wes Clark, 2004, Washington Monthly

Truer words were never said!

[Spazito]

24. Thanks, Tellurian, I love the quote...

it is the essense of what is the truth; armies, dictates, torture, etc, cannot impose or, indeed, define "freedom", it can ONLY come from within. Wes Clark is one of the few who truly understands that, imo.

[Tellurian]

26. I agree.. you define it as well as I've ever heard

it defined.. I would be severly disappointed if Kerry doesn't pick Clark for VP. We need the Holy Trinity. Kerry, Clark and Clinton to defeat this unholy foe.

[Spazito]

32. Agree!

Kerry, Clark and Clinton would be the ultimate team, imo, out there during the election cycle to negate ALL that bush and his neocon cabal would attempt to sell, whether it be on domestic or international affairs. With those three standing toe to toe with the "opposition", I know whom I would place my bet upon!

[Tellurian]

35. Spaz, that would be a 'Dream Team' come true..

All three equally have unique strengths that compliment each other. All well spoken and plenty of heart to go around. People would just gravitate to them like an oasis in the middle of a desert.

[goclark]

22. Bravo!!

We have "beautiful minds" and they are simply bullies that want power by any means necessary.

Their "by any means necessary" thought process is really in the mode of Huey Newton. And, the Repubs thing that Huey was "radical."
In my mind they are the radicals and they are totally destroying America.

[Tellurian]

31. yes, and I hope we've learned our lesson..

They are NOT fit to govern this wonderful country of ours, ever again!

[Renew Deal]

21. DU is ahead of the game.

I always see things pop up in the news days or weeks after I see them here. That;s why I think the Plame thing might really be a big deal.

[Tellurian]

25. I was hoping to read about Plame in the Wilderness article but wasn't sure

I was ready to join...shoot!
Looked like an interesting article, too.

[Oddman]

23. Doesn't it seem like common sense runs in the Democratic genes?

And the republican genes consists of the haves and haves more and the wish we could haves and haves more but we knows we will never have nothin' but our Republican principals that all republicans laugh at us behind our poor asses over and over!!!

[Tellurian]

27. I feel sorry for them...they were raised by an authoritarian upbringing

and are devoid of Love and Human Kindness. They are empty shells of humanity...lost in a sea of money trying to find Love in Power...sad--really.

[Cat Atomic]

29. It's "seeing is believing" vs. "believing is seeing".

I think a part of the problem with right wing thought these days is that it has a strong fundamentalist influence.

Fundamentalists pride themselves on believing things without evidence. For them, it's actually a virture to believe a thing simply because they've been told to.

That has an effect on a person's thought process. I mean, once you've accepted that George Bush was appointed by God himself, it's not much of a stretch to extend your lack of criticism out past Noah's ark and into the realm of politics.

[Oddman]

40. Perfect example was criticizing Fahrenheit 9/11 without seeing it

eom


A Pathetic Excuse for a pResident

[soggy]

33. well, since no one's come out with any stock market predictions

here's one...

saudi arabia ups their production and the price of crude oil takes a dive in the next few months.

if you have a commodities account and trust the word of bob woodward and prince bandar, selling short might be the way to go...

i've been planning for a while now to do this and donate the profits to the kerry campaign for a nice little "go fuck yourself" to the cheney/bush ticket.

[Yavin4]

36. It's Not That We're Smart Nor 6 Months Ahead...It's Because

we don't accept everything that this administration says at face value, unlike our media. The really sad thing about Moore's movie is that it didn't have one single fact that wasn't lying around for the past three years. The corporate media just didn't cover it. They don't thoroughly investigate a single thing that comes out of this White House.

[Tellurian]

39. By now it's a given, the media is controlled by Right Wingers...

determined to follow the extreme Federalist version of the Constitution. That is, supporting Corporations instead of supporting the Good and Welfare of the People. Clinton proved for 8yrs both could be done, where enough money could be generated in the economy for both the people and corporate entities to live in harmony with each other.

Bush and company believe in a cast system for people. The rich feeding the poor and the almighty dollar milked from the poor feeding the corporations, their God of Greed.

[deportivoI]

41. Why Didnt

congress see what we saw 1 year ago? They are supposed to be the "smart" ones. LOL

:crazy:

[NewEmanuelGoldstein]

42. so

How many US soilders and innocent Iraqis did this "I told you so" and gloating stop from dying/being killed?


6 months from now when a nuclear war or the great depression part 2 starts because the world reacts after Bush wins the election like he won in 2000 will it matter?

[soggy]

43. well, it could've saved roughly 850 soilders and 10,000 iraqis

if the media, the masses, or especially our elected congressmen had had the sack to do what was right instead of what was popular before we ever got into this mess.

we're the level-headed fringe, and if we don't get bush out of office... then there will be plenty more blood spilled unjustifiably.

and i'll say "i told ya so"