I have a problem with Moore's F9/11.

[Raven]

Hoping not to get flamed, I'll lay it out here.

F9/11 is a documentory/video op-ed piece. It is done from Moore's perspective which we all agree with. It is a media creation...a movie. There is nothing to stop a Republican movie maker from making a pro-Bush documentary (a la some of the Reagan crap that was aired during his funeral week). What's to stop the American public from being influenced by that?

The American voter does not read anymore...even a newspaper. He/she watches the tube and swallows whatever the perkiest newscaster says. Kerry is having a problem connecting with the average voter because he has a brain and tends to think things through. There is little tolerance for that now.

I hope F9/11 helps to defeat Bush but I worry about the dangerous precedent that it sets for the future.

[Still_Loves_John]

If you mean before the election

then there just isn't time. And as for the future, I really doubt that this is ushering in an era of blockbuster documentaries. This only got press because Moore is already a big name, and it's totally unusual for a documentary to get this much publicity.

[StandUpGuy]

50. Pretty Much

Funny It would take a Right Wing muck raker that has spent the last 20 yrs exposing the left wing conspiracy to get nearly the reach.

Can you name a single one ?!

Chicken or egg

No Righty investigative journalist/film maker
No massive Lefty conspiracy or corruption

I say Bring it on tho...Unlike a freptard I would actually like to find out if I was being lied to.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Why a movie? They have about 10 /24 hour news stations.

Nothing can stop anyone from doing that...that's why I support Moore...I want the most talented on our side.

[DrWeird]

2. Maybe you haven't been watching the news lately...

eom

[redqueen]

3. lol

Who's going to produce it? Who thinks it will make them any $$$$$. That's what it's all about, in the end.

I'd love to see 'em try, honestly. :evilgrin:

[troublemaker]

48. Be careful what you wish for. They are historically very good at it.

[girl gone mad]

4. It would be..

kind of difficult to blame the Democrats for all of our problems considering that the GOP is in control of all three branches of government.

What would the documentary do? Glorify Bush for his fabulous record?

[bossfish]

28. Yeah, that's it

Tryumf Uv The Wil...

Can't wait to see it.

[anakie]

39. very funny

n/t

[tom_paine]

5. You are right, but if the Imperial Family isn't stopped, then none of us

has any future.

So I would rather put out the house fire, first, then worry about whther I have set a precedent for fireman trampling the azaleas.

The bottom line here, Raven, is that in the absence of a Free Press in Imperial Amerika, no matter what we do it is going to be unprecedented because the "Old Ways" of Journalism are erdoed and eradicated.

But you ae right, it is only a matter of time that the Busheviks go all "Leni Riefenstahl" over Der Fuhrer.

But they would have done that anyway.

You see, like Jews in Nazi Germany, we KNOW what our foes will do and say, and it has little to do with what WE do or say.

We are the "Jews" of Imperial Amerika. If we recoil for fear of precedents and what will be said about us, then next time we wake up, it will be "Fahrenheit 451" or the actual Gulags themselves.

[shockingelk]

6. What does that have to do with F911

Nothing previously prevented someone from filming a pro-bush, pro-war theatrical release.

Besides, what would be in it that hasn't been in the newspapers and magazines and TV screens for the last several years. Would it reveal that he can clear brush AND cooks some mean chili?

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. But when put up against what happened during Clinton's years and

the media frenzy there, I think the right has already done that...for years. To me there is no difference between this movie and the countless newspace given to Whitwater and Monica Lewinsky. Moore found a medium and used it. :hi:

[Maine-i-acs]

8. Didn't you see "Saving Pvt. Lynch"?

RW propaganda aplenty there .... plus their 9/11 TV special crapfest.

[Gothmog]

9. Moore is one the most talented film makers around

The rupugs would be hard press to do something this well done and well thought out. If Senator Kerry wins, there will be some attempt to copycat F 9/11 no doubt but without the talent and humor of Moore, it will be a flop.

[Orangepeel]

10. I don't understand your problem

If I read you correctly, your problem with F911 is that someone else might make a movie that negates it. So it would be better not to have MM's point of view out there at all?

There is nothing to stop a republican movie maker from making a pro-bush documentary. But there wasn't before F911. Is it that you wish MM hadn't given them the idea?

:shrug:

[Raven]

22. It's not that I'm worrying about someone countering MM,

it's that I don't want to see voting decisions made in the country solely on some media blockbuster. Now I know people will say that this has already come to pass and I believe it has, but we have railed against it until now, when someone puts out something that we agree with.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

27. What do you think shrub voters based their decisions to vote Repub in 2000

on?

What do you think the ones who are planning right now to vote shrub in NOV have based THEIR decision on?

Still no sale for your concern here.

[redqueen]

32. The reason it's such a blockbuster is because people are hungry for TRUTH

If Democrats gain control of the meida (har) and start lying to the American public, then someone from the right should put out a similar documentary.

Not so much to influence elections, but to get the OTHER SIDE of the story out. If the media had allowed that, there would have been a much softer market for this movie.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. YES. Moore is brilliant, and talented, but the real reason for F911

success is this HUNGER. He did not create that.

[FrankBooth]

11. Let them try

Wingnuts rarely have a sense of humor about anything, and when they do try to be funny it is usually tinged with racism/elitism. Just look at Rush - sometimes he is actually funny, but it is so mean-spirited and cynical that it turns off anyone who wasn't already converted to his way of thinking.

No way they could do what Moore does because Moore is damn funny, and he is civil with his humor, and also willing to laugh at himself.

[Skittles]

18. correct

their "humor" is very ugly - and appeals to very ugly people.

[AP]

12. Look around you. What you're afriad of happening is already going on.

Moore isn't starting a trend. He's responding to the trend.

This movie would be in 200 theaters, gross 2.5 mil and would be gone in two weeks if the media weren't already doing what you're afraid of happening as a response to Moore.

People are going to see this movie because they're starving for the truth after being inundated by RW BS from every direction in the media.

(Incidentally, if Librarians didn't get pissed off, Stupid White Men never would have been pulbished because the publisher tried to bury it after 9/11.)

[SheepyMcSheepster]

13. why go to a movie when you already get it on the news for free?

[Forkboy]

14. I think Leni Riefenstahl set the precedent a long time ago

:shrug:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. Totally disagree. Like others said, what's your point? You would rather

that MM had never made this movie and the Dems would be better off in NOV? I think not.

[Bandit]

16. Do you remember "Primary Colors" and "Wag the Dog"?

Tell me those weren't made to influence the voter.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. They started it. This our chance to shout back, and LOUD!

-------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to John Kerry and the DNC.
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[MrSlayer]

19. Well someone already is making an anti-Moore documentary.

I'm sure the pukes will be funding it though I doubt it will have the impact F-9/11 is having.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

20. Well any Dem would have to give a documentarian

enough meat just to make a movie like that! Dang, Moore coulda made F9/11 parts I, II and III and had each five hours long and still not run out of material.

Like I heard someone else say as I was leaving the theater: "Man you just can't MAKE up shit like that!!!"

Anywho.

[matcom]

21. sorry Mom. they are too little and WAY too late

let them put something out.

they better base it on FACTS

oh wait, they can't because the FACTS are on OUR SIDE!

it won't fly. it will look like what it would be: SOUR GRAPES

i have YET to hear or see ONE right winger present FACTS disputing Moore.

they can't

they dont' exist

your fears are for not. enjoy the film. enjoy it NUMEROUS TIMES

[Jackpine Radical]

23. The Wingnuts already have radio & TV as their propaganda vehicles.

A documentary like F911 is just too damn much work if all you have to do is send out the latest talking points to the talking heads for distribution to the masses.

F911 v. Fox is 2 hours of movie versus 24/7 of gnawing propaganda.

[Octafish]

24. Big difference: Moore tells the TRUTH!

Best the BFEE can do is lie. And they're very good at it, with all the help they get from Corporate McPravda 24/7 360-degrees. And that's why we're in the mess we're in.

[denverbill]

25. It's a free country. They can do what they want to.

Actually, I've already heard some guy is making a money called "Michael Moore Hates America". That sounds like a big box-office winner :eyes:.

Know something funny. At freeperville, they are equating F9-11 to the WWII German propaganda pieces like "Triumph of the Will". However, F9-11 is a anti-government movie. "Triumph" glorified the leader, the war, and the cause, and vilified anyone who opposed them. Any piece produced by Republicans to counter F9-11 will surely resemble "Triumph" much more closely than F9-11 does.

[FlemingsGhost]

26. The truth owes no allegiance.

Indeed, Moore's opinion is there for all to see. He makes no bones about it, and is completely unapologetic. However, his political agenda is simply a result of his painstaking research and desemination of the facts. That is the crux regarding the importance, and the brilliance, of this film. Opinions aside, the facts stand on their own merit.

[kentuck]

29. Sorry Raven...

I think they would have a difficult time coming up with original material they don't use on their talk radio and cable TV everyday already. Let 'em try. :)

[kymar57]

30. All I can say is

Bring..It..On. I doubt freepers and the like would demonstrate the support this film has enjoyed. I read here somewhere, this film had a herd or coven or whatever lawyers come in, check the facts presented by F9/11 for accuracy. I doubt anything the right could come up with would pass similar scrutiny. JMODO :toast:

[LTR]

31. In the words of George Dubya Bush

Bring it on!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

33. ALSO: The critical and creative faculties of most wingnuts have atrophied

hopelessly the last several years. All they have to do is tune in to FAUX and RUSH and be told what's right and what to think. MEGADITTOES, DUDE!

Most of them couldn't come up with a creative work like F9/11 that anyone would want to see in a billion years.

"If seven hundred monkeys typed for seven hundred years, one of them would produce the works of Shakespeare."

Bob Newhart used to have some old standup routine about this old saw. Monkey reading the product of their typewriter: "To be, or not to refedjksdfh."

[deminflorida]

35. They'd better get busy making it.....Moore is a genius....

F9/11 is in theaters now....topping 24 million dollars in only a few days...

JUN-JUL-AUG- MAIN THEATERS

Sep... Secondary Theaters

OCT-NOV. RELEASED TO THE VIDEO STORES JUST IN TIME FOR FENCE SITTERS TO REVIEW IT BEFORE THE NOVEMBER ELECTION.

[Zorra]

36. Yeah. "I, Clenis" would be a republican blockbuster! *snarf* n/t

[EV1Ltimm]

37. my thoughts exactly.

a little too exactly.

[cprise]

38. Yes, and the Carlisle Group knew that the moment they saw F-911

...and made a bid to purchase Loews Cineplex.

[Raven]

40. When this is over...when we have won...

we need to fix this dependence on media. We need to get people back to reading position papers, books, background reports, listening carefully, thinking! Thinking. The brilliant MM is on our side and that is nice, but the shoe could be on the other foot someday.

[kymar57]

41. Huh. What be this "thinking"??? n/t

[DrWeird]

42. Have you even watched the film?

It's a documentary. It's not like it's a soap opera or something.

[Raven]

44. What the hell is that supposed to mean?

I know what it is. And, despite being a woman, I know the difference between a soap opera and a documentary. Is there a constructive point in your post that I missed???

[DrWeird]

46. Have you seen the film?

Because you seem to think that MM's documentary is some unintellectual piece of fluff.

[Raven]

47. Yes I have seen the film and no, I don't think it's a piece of fluff...

but I think people have to do more than view a single film before they make up their minds about the presidency...no matter how good that film is. Is this a difficult concept for you to grasp?

[baldguy]

43. Moore is just doing what the RW has been doing for years

He just does it with film rather than radio, TV, newspapers, editorials etc etc etc.

[librechik]

45. I'd like to see them try

maybe then we'd see some of the "evidence" for all the lies they've been perpetrating for years!

However, I'm convinced nobody will go see a movie about that loser. The reason "liberals rule the media" is because liberals are creative, positive, fun, and informative. Name one creative filmmaker on the right (besides Mel.) I can't even think of one!

Besides, who wants to see a bunch of sanctimonious, uptight, secretive millionaires counting their money? Cuz that's what a truthful movie about Shrub from their perspective would look like.

Why would anybody buy a ticket for that? Will he finally reveal the facts about his TNG service? Where the WMDs are? What his true relationship with Bin Laden is? That his suits cost twice what Kerry pays?

You see the problem. They can't make a movie. Still. I wish they would.
I'd love to have an opportun ity to trash it in advance the way they are trashing F9/11!

[Junkdrawer]

49. Well, if we squelched RW opinion for 10-20 years, maybe...

The F-911 phenomena would not be possible if the media were actually "Fair and Balanced".

[Kinkistyle]

51. What are they gonna do? Stuff the cat back into the bag?

The Iraq footage, the Bush footage, the stories about the military families, the Abu Ghraib torture pics. ITS ALL OUT THERE AND PEOPLE ARE SEEING IT. What are the repukes going to do? Say "Its all just a dream, forget that you saw it, bam-shala-bim! FORGET!". Of course not. The repugs have nothing to stand on. Their side really is comprised of propaganda. Moore simply exposed the truth thats been covered up by just filmimg what is really going on (something the so called "media" has not been doing). The repuked are going to need to use a lot of CGI to present anything near what Moore did.

[jokerman93]

52. You are right

And that is precisely why, in a free society, all citizens must have access to good educational training and be capable of independent, critical thought.

That's when the marketplace of ideas becomes viable, and there are far fewer incentives to construct fabulous propaganda and lies in order to concentrate political power.

That's how it works. And not honoring that necessity in a free society is part of how it all got broke in the first place!

IMHO

[hippiegranny]

53. they already had their chance

and they made that gawdawful discredited piece of cable crap about dumbya's steely resolve and unwaving leadership after 9/11. what was that p.o.s. called? anyone?

[sendero]

54. Could the whole problem be...

... that the right has little material to to work with while MM has a surplus of material?

What do you call "Mission Accomplished"? It was just a propoganda short, but it backfired didn't it.

While I understand there are points of view, there is something like an objective truth out there, and we're behind that. You can spin lies all day long but you have to understand that you are taking a risk, a risk of losing all credibility - a risk which our whore media better take seriously, and soon.