DU, please help me understand this party

[genxpundit]

I haven't been on this board long. I really haven't been involved in politics either - until this year. I understand how critical this election is to all of us - on the right and the left. It really is about the survival of our country and our families. I heard about this board from a friend and decided to join in hopes that I would find people who thought like it did. After a few days, I'm quite distressed.

You see, I grew up in a democratic family. I understand the position of union members (father, uncle, grandfather in the UAW), the difficulties of women in big business, the need to help those who are less fortunate, and to treat people - all people - with respect. I guess you can say I was raised as a John Kennedy democrat.

After reading several posts here, I must admit that I don't know who the democratic party is right now. In one post (that inspired this one), a member criticized Ralph Nader for his "beach ball" comment. This isn't the only instance of this. Yet, some of the same people outraged by the comment frequently call Bush "chimp," "shrub," "fascist," etc. Our constitution gives us the right to say what we want without fear of persecution. So, if people can call Bush names, he should be able to call Kerry names, and Nader should be able to call Moore names, and on and on and on. But, is this the way we want the democratic party to be portrayed? Why don't we stop calling each other names and stick to the issues. Believe it or not, most Americans don't understand the tone some here take. And, I'm afraid, this could swing people.

My grandmother has been a democrat all her life. Last week, while shopping, she walked by a table of Kerry supporters. These people were young (in their twenties). Now, my grandmother loves this country and shows that love by wearing an American flag pin. And, for her efforts, she was called a fascist. For an American flag pin? I couldn't believe it. What a great way to make friends! Great job stereotyping someone. Now, I know these people aren't in the majority, but since they are the more outspoken, they get heard more often.

I know the flames are already brewing. I wish only that people tone done the hate, the conspiracy theories, the name calling. Let's discuss the issues.

I am a gun owning, environment loving Christian the supports the Constitution and its protections. Perhaps that's too much for some - but I am a democrat. There are lots of us out there that only want what's good for this nation and our future. The hate, however, is wearing us down. You have the right to say what you like, but with everything on the line, we should be more careful about the image we portray.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

1. Ann Coulter calls all Democrats 'Traitors'...

.. have you emailed her the same sentiment?

[tom_paine]

9. Yes, yes, try jaunting over to freerepublic.com

Who's murderous fantasies you will not have to spend much time there to see. They often dream about radnomly whacking Liberals or some other way "making liberals disappear".

Have you yet heard anyone fantasize about such things on DU. In all my time I've only ever heard something like that once, and the person was swiftly admonsihed by several, including me.

I am sorry for what heppened to your grandmother. people are mad, not that it's any excuse to berate an Old Lady.

Finally, I would say, "where the hell have you been for the last 30 years?" Busheviks have called us Traitors, deadbeats, unPatriotic, unAmerican, not Real Americans, not real human beings, and MOST of it was said by Mainstream Bushevik Pundits or Politicians while no one batted an eyelash.

Now, we on the Left are pissed, and having seen firsthand how successful shouting has been at introducing & laundering lies as "conventional wisdom", and we FINALLY are returning fire.

We call therm Nazis because the PATRIOT ACT, 9-11, the Stolen Election, and most particularly the Bushevik 20+ YEAR borrowing of Nazi Demonization Propaganda, the similarities are marked and sizeable.

i.e "All Liberals hate America. All Liberals always side with the enemies of America."
"All Jews hate Germany. All Jews always side with the enemies of Germany."
"Liberals are responsible for everything that's wrong with America."
"Jews are responsible for everything that's wrong with Germany."

And so forth...

Taken without context, I might agree with your sentiments. But in the context of Bushevik demonization rhetoric, and it's successes and the fact that no one seemed to compalin much when THEY did it, I believe that the only way to deal with Bullies and Nzais is to stand up to them and dish back.

Otherwise they will assume your civility is "Liberal Weakness" and will take advantage of it like a Nazi takes advantage of Britain's Civility and desire for diplomacy at Munich 1938.

Some things never change.

[Blue_Roses]

122. you damn right

we are pissed and WE AIN'T GONNA TAKE IT NO MORE!

We have allowed the repubs to roll over us for way too long and they just don't seem to be able to take the shit they shove. I think it's about damn time we get pissed. We've tried "nice" and they just don't "play nice."

"Now, we on the Left are pissed, and having seen firsthand how successful shouting has been at introducing & laundering lies as "conventional wisdom", and we FINALLY are returning fire."

WELL SAID! :bounce:

[genxpundit]

36. That means we need to stoop to their level?

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Slickriddles]

95. Welcome genxpundit to Democratic Underground

:hi: Welcome to Democratic Underground

I am also new to this board, but not at all new to politics.

You must remember that not everybody here is what they seem.

I'm pretty sure there are some very lonely 14-year-old creeps
who come around here cussin and bein loud and obnoxious.
They belong someplace else but they've probably been banned from those sites. Don't hesitate to use the alert button if a comment breaks the rules. Once you get a feel for the place, it gets better. You can even play around with the creeps. If ya get mah drift.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Please be much more specific.

What exactly is bothering you? Can you give example? If you are concerned about something, please elaborate.

[patriotvoice]

3. Splinters

Current trends support the notion of the American majority tending "democratic." The side effect of this is straightforward: the "noisy minority" of Republicans share a solidarity not enjoyed by the Democrat majority.

There are many flavours of "democrat," which are, as you noted, colourfully displayed here at Democratic Underground.

I believe solidarity is untenable under the name of "Democrat;" there are too many extant liberal positions, all of which have their supporters and dissenters.

Until we either achieve a polyparty system or we absolutely marginalize the fundamentalist fearmongers, we will continue to have this fractionalization.

Welcome to DU.

[iconoclastic cat]

4. And just because people rant does not mean they are "hateful."

People vent. It happens.

[VolcanoJen]

10. iconoclastic cat, that is one rockin' bumpersticker!!!

Thanks for making my day... and hey, where can I get one??

[iconoclastic cat]

13. Thank Bertha Venation

http://www.cafeshops.com/theangryliberal.8028373

[realisticphish]

125. agreed

The democratic party, and "progressives" in general, are huge tents (to coin a phrase). Unfortunate circumstances have forced together a lot of people that would in another political climate have been fierce enemies, but we all kind of work together against neocons. And this lack of true solidarity, is what I think makes us progressive. Constant discussion and argument brings about change, and this is what the far right wing lacks

[DrWeird]

5. Mmhmm.

Color me convinced.

[IrateCitizen]

6. I'm sorry, but I find this quite unbelievable

My grandmother has been a democrat all her life. Last week, while shopping, she walked by a table of Kerry supporters. These people were young (in their twenties). Now, my grandmother loves this country and shows that love by wearing an American flag pin. And, for her efforts, she was called a fascist. For an American flag pin? I couldn't believe it. What a great way to make friends! Great job stereotyping someone. Now, I know these people aren't in the majority, but since they are the more outspoken, they get heard more often.

Now, if you were talking about a bunch of 20-somethings from the Socialist Workers' Party, or the Communist Party USA, I might tend to believe that your statement had some validity. But that such a statement was made by a bunch of young people tabling for John Kerry, I simply find a bit preposterous.

Sorry, but I have to express extreme doubt at such an event really happening, and also state that it makes me somewhat questionable of your motives.

Of course, you can always prove my suspicions wrong over time.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toucano]

33. I agree with you.

That recounting of events is suspicious.

Maybe more details would help.

genxpundit: Are you sure there were no words exchanged between your grandmother and the Kerry table?

On Edit:

Sorry. I didn't realize the poster had abandoned the thread.

[genxpundit]

39. Not abandoned, just working

From what she told me,no.

[Toucano]

80. I know the feeling.

I try to avoid starting a thread if I think I won't be around to participate in the discussion because that's a tactic people use sometimes to get people all worked up over nothing. But I know things don't always work out like we plan. :)

I don't believe your grandma has effectively communicated the story to you, however. That's not to say she's lying, but rather she's experienced a confrontation and it upset her which has caused her to leave part of the story out.

You see in order for the story to be true as you've recounted it for us here, the volunteers would have to be seriously mentally ill. It's highly improbable that seriously mentally ill people would be employed in a position to interact with the public.

[genxpundit]

82. I guess I won't post again unless I can sit here for a few hours.

This is almost like IM.

[Toucano]

92. Well, you know what they say about the heat and the kitchen?

It does move really fast. That's because this is the UNDERGROUND.

You might check out the forum called The Meeting Room. It has a slower pace.

[genxpundit]

108. I'll do that thanks,

[Cocoa]

38. lol

I think this person lives in the same reality as Ann Coulter. :-)

[genxpundit]

43. Nice attack, again

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

94. I don't believe it either.

No way would this happen.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

7. Oh, yay. Another post urging us to "raise the level of discourse."

genxpundit, I'm also a member of Gen X, and a relatively life-long Democrat.

I just have to tell you, and others that have expressed this same sentiment, that I honestly don't think playing "nicey-nice" with the dangerous and sneaky Bush Administration is going to earn us any points with the voters.

Look at the boffo box office "Fahrenheit 9/11" is doing... the film doesn't pull any punches, and lays it out there for all to see. People can't seem to get enough of this movie.

I think you're on the wrong track here, and I don't think we're going to win any voters over to our side just by being all sugar and sunshine. In fact, the way to sway voters to our side is to tell them the damned truth... and when you say it with gusto, and emotion, people listen.

The Republican Party certainly isn't interested in dialing down their rhetoric in order to win voters, as evidenced by Dick "Go Fuck Yourself" Cheney. Republican Party leaders, including Bill Frist and President Bush, are practically coming out of the woodwork to praise and celebrate Cheney's comments.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Welcome to DU, though, and I hope that you'll be able to get past some of our emotion around here, if it upsets you that much.

[genxpundit]

60. Well, I suppose I'm just too moderate for some.

As someone said, this is a big tent. I had questions and got some answers (and a new fire in the fire place).

[funkybutt]

8. I understand your distress

I've experienced several instances where i couldnt believe what was said here. Ex: taking up arms..wtf good is that gonna do!?

Anyway, for the most part DUers are good people who are outraged and angry with what is going on in this country and around the world. Of course some of this outrage can morph into hate when you see the injustices and deaths that are resulting from current US policy makers. I try not to be a hater...but I've got to tell you, it's damn hard.

I've noticed myself becoming more and more intolerant of the ignorance that forwards the cause of the right. This country was founded on tolerance and it is a commendable thing. The problem is, it seems to get us nowhere. I've had situations with friends, ect where I've had to stop discussing politics b/c it was plainly obvious that I could not open their eyes to what is happening. It's painfully frustrating at times. And it's hard to just agree to disagree.

This is a venue where people can vent and not be attacked for it (usually). Please don't be discouraged.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. I am sorry your grandmother experienced that. I hope,

she made it clear to those young people that she is a Dem too.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. I do, but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt

for their first few posts.

Editing to add, wonder if these were Repubs masquerading as dems to give the Dems a bad name? Like the earlier post about repubs pretending to be progressives and going out and rounding up voters for Nader?

[tom_paine]

19. Certainly any level fo dirty tricks from the Nazis is possible.

I'm still marvelling that they haven't opened up the Arizona Gulags yet.

More of a Second Term issue for them, don't you think?

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. That's the rumor. Gonna be real bad if * won't come out of the WH.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Democracy Died 2004]

16. sometimes my bullshit

meter just keeps going off when i see posts here.

[ieoeja]

17. Eyes Wide Open

That which makes you angry gets noticed. The other ten posters making a sensible reply does not as they are simply echoing what you are already thinking.

Stereotypes occur in the same fashion. As I drive through a certain portion of town on the way to work, I get frustrated by all the pedestrians cutting me off. And these pedestrians are always African-American. So I start wondering why black people are so rude.

Then I stretch my eyes a little wider and see that all of the pedestrians in this neighborhood are black. And the overwhelming majority of them are using crosswalks and hurrying across the street so as not to hold up traffic.

Leaving that neighborhood, I come into another area where I again get frustrated by pedestrians walking out into traffic. And these pedestrians are always hillbillies. So I start wondering why hillbillies....

Finally I get downtown where I get frustrated by pedestrians walking out into the middle of traffic. And these pedestrians are always yuppies. So I start wondering why yuppies....

[0rganism]

18. We're all imperfect, human, prone to hypocrisy and mistakes

Start there and work forward.

Should we be more compassionate and less derisive in our arguments? Probably. Should we be less prone to pre-judgment by appearance? Absolutely. Notice that the expectations we have for our leaders rise somewhat above those which we have for the herd at large. Unfortunately, when VP Cheney tells Senator Leahy to "Go fuck himself", that significantly lowers the standards for discourse at the highest levels. Same with presidential candidate Nader levelling "beach ball" ad homs at former political ally Moore. These are signs of the time in which we live.

What those Kerry supporters said about your grandmother -- assuming she didn't take it out of context -- was 100% wrong. We need to be working together solidly to reclaim the flag, not alienate it. Sadly, the rightwing propaganda machine has done such a good job of telling liberals that any dissent is unpatriotic that we've started to believe it ourselves.

> I am a gun owning, environment loving Christian the supports the Constitution and its protections.

You have a lot in common with Sen. John Kerry, then. Don't let the polarization bring you to despair. If you have a clear vision of the image you want to portray, let someone at your local campaign headquarters know about it. Above all, if you see what must be done, then do whatever you can to make it happen.

[genxpundit]

48. I appreciate those comments.

I knew I had something in common with someone.

[Shakespeare]

20. I call bullshit.

My grandmother has been a democrat all her life. Last week, while shopping, she walked by a table of Kerry supporters. These people were young (in their twenties). Now, my grandmother loves this country and shows that love by wearing an American flag pin. And, for her efforts, she was called a fascist.

I flat-out do not believe you. No WAY this happened.

[genxpundit]

35. Sorry, some people work

Well, it did happen in Hartford Connecticut. And, yes, they were supporting Kerry. I'm sorry some of you can't believe this story - nor am I surprised. These are the facts as much as they may hurt or confuse.

[sangh0]

37. I still don't believe it either

because even if it DID happen, if you know enough to get here, then you should know that some kids at a Kerry table are not representative of a "typical Democrat"

[Shakespeare]

75. Sorry, but no democrat--especially no Kerry volunteer--is EVER...

...going to call someone a fascist for wearing an American flag pin. That's freeper fantasy. Those "facts" aren't facts, and they neither hurt nor confuse me.

[Wind Dancer]

22. Why start a thread and seagull?

Why aren't you debating the responses?

[BrotherBuzz]

23. We have a big tent....

and it's already full, so toes get stepped on occasionally. It gets better when the band starts to play.

[VolcanoJen]

25. Yes, but that's also when the slam-dancing begins.

}(

[BrotherBuzz]

29. Well, they do stop complaining about toes!

:evilgrin:

[NYCGirl]

24. Not all Democrats are like Alan Colmes...

Although I seldom use terms like "Repuke" or "Chimpy" (in public), I think we've been passive too long.

But then I've become a Dean Democrat...

:P

[geek tragedy]

26. Flamebait

This stinks

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

27. C'mom people.

26...no...27 replies and not a single response from the original poster?
Something's odd in Denmark.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. Walked by table of Kerry supporters, called fascist for wearing flag pin?

SUUUUUUUUURE! And I have a bridge to sell you.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fob]

30. Tone down the hate? Discuss the issues instead?

Hate, my friend, IS the issue. bush* hates anyone that's not in lockstep with him. bush* hates the troops. He said saddam had WMD's and rather than letting Hans Blix find and destroy them BEFORE sending troops in, he forced the inspectors out and started bombing. It's only through sheer incompetence of bush* that our troops weren't massacred, bacause saddam didn't have the wmd's! bush*hates YOU, unless you earn enough to be in the top 5% AND donate the max to him.

Hate. bush*. Hate bush*.

[put out]

31. I am not smelling truth.

Truth smells like fresh-mown grass.

This smells like someone ran the lawn mower over a dog turd. But I could be wrong; it happens.

It seems to me that a person old enough to own guns, but not old enough to understand the Democratic Party...needs to do some serious self education.

[genxpundit]

40. Based on some of these responses, this isn't the Democratic party I knew.

[DrWeird]

44. Who are you trying to kid?

Honestly.

We've dealt with far better than you before.

Shit, it's like you're not even trying.

[genxpundit]

50. And what does that mean?

[DrWeird]

53. Again, who are you trying to kid?

I know what you're doing, you know what you're doing, everybody else knows what you're doing.

So what's with the little game?

[Cat Atomic]

47. Yeah- I guess the party "left you behind", like it did to Zell Miller.

[Cheswick2.0]

120. Oh well I guess you will just have to vote for bush

And I guess your grammy will too.....sigh

[flaminbats]

32. why take things so seriously?

My grandmother has been a democrat all her life. Last week, while shopping, she walked by a table of Kerry supporters. These people were young (in their twenties). Now, my grandmother loves this country and shows that love by wearing an American flag pin. And, for her efforts, she was called a fascist. For an American flag pin? I couldn't believe it. What a great way to make friends! Great job stereotyping someone. Now, I know these people aren't in the majority, but since they are the more outspoken, they get heard more often.

Kids will be kids, and only time can change the arrogance of young hotheads. But why should one Kerry supporter be upset by another Kerry supporter's human mistake? If your grandmother loves this country, then she has no reason to be offended, but rather she would proudly proclaim that it is her patriotism and liberal ideals that also make her a Kerry supporter.

Too many good people have served this country only to be stabbed in the backs by their own elected leaders. Too many people have put their lives on the line, for our President to mock our contract with the government! If we cannot elect a leader we can trust, then how can we trust our government to lead?

[indypaul]

34. Just what is it you do not

understand? Anthrax mailings to two Democrat senators,
"Go f--- yourself" comments by the Vice President to one
of those senators on the floor of the United Sates Senate.
Pre-emptive attacks against a soverign nation by this nation
without valid justification. Complete ignorance of a
potential terrorist threat against this nation after taking
office; after receiving warnings to that affect. Budget and
Balance of Trade deficits highest in history. Net loss of
jobs in the past three years. And now we are about to
experience increased interest rates and inflation that
will further destroy this ecnonomy. And you ask why
there is anger? Stand up, walk to the window, open the
window and shout, "I'm mad as hell and I am not going to
take it anymore." Sound familiar?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[genxpundit]

46. Thanks for the name calling.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

51. thanks for being so transparent.

[Wind Dancer]

58. Well, you aren't responding to the initial issues

you brought up in the original post. You didn't respond to any of the serious posters who tried to answer your questions thoughtfully and with passion. What is it you want exactly?

There are a variety of people that post on this board with different opinions. We are not the Stepford community.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/

Have you been to Senator Kerry's website?

[genxpundit]

67. Yes I have.

But this seems like the best message board out there so I thought I'd give my opinion. Is that so bad?

[TexasSissy]

54. LOL LOL

[Cat Atomic]

42. *yawn*

Try again.

[Logansquare]

45. I'm a Kerry supporter and I wear a flag pin

Try and process that.

[Shakespeare]

76. Well, clearly you must be a fascist.

;-)

[Blue-Jay]

49. Shenanigans!

"People of South Park, do you declare shenanigans on the carnival people?"

/first thing that came to mind....

[seabeyond]

52. i would have applauded your grandmother

walking over to those youths...........and telling her lifetime participation as a democrat and since they were sitting behind the kerry name they had a greater responsibility in showing respect to fellow citizens walking by.


genxpundit, i hear ya. i have thought that, especially when i first came on. then i came to the understanding that you know.........all are different. all are not going to conform to my, no name calling. i have never been that type of person, there are a lot that are. but it is ok, i embrace and giggle and respect when one expresses the anger and frustration

many have been doing this a lot longer than you, and have hit up against many wallls. many sit here in awe and amazement all the lieing and crookedness being ignored by this government. many many have been told the last three years keep your mouth shut or you are unchristian, a terrorist, unpatriotic, unamerican. i dont think a single person on this board can stand the words shut up anymore. i dont think anyone is going to shut up anymore, regardless of how nice we are being asked

and welcome to the board

[genxpundit]

57. Thanks

I only posted this so I could learn more about where we stand. I'm sorry to be such a neophyte. I expected the flames and the doubts. That's fine. I hope you guys don't treat everyone with questions like this the same.

[Blue-Jay]

59. Listen, kid. If you're coming to DU to

"learn more about where we (HAHA!) stand", then you might be barking up the wrong tree. We're a board of leftie activists, mostly, and NEVER has any "regular" here EVER claimed to be a representitive of the Democratic Party. You wanna know where the Democratic Party stands on issues? I'd suggest reading a few newspapers and visiting the DNC website. Also go see Kerry's website as well, but stop wasting our goddamn time!

Good lord. Why did I even bother?

[genxpundit]

64. I guess I just don't understand your anger.

I'm not one to beat my chest, so I guess I don't fit in with certain groups here. So be it. I'm still a democrat despite what some may think. You need us too you know.

[Blue-Jay]

69. Yes, yes..."Anger" , "Bush-Haters" , "Old Lady Yellers-At"....

<sigh>

[Wind Dancer]

61. See post 58.

[Cocoa]

65. that flag story is so bizarre

what makes you think anyone at DU would approve of calling someone a fascist for wearing an American flag pin?

Ever see a John Kerry event? They're LOUSY with American Flags. The flag is a huge part of Kerry's campaign.

The only one who thinks that the behavior in your anecdote remotely resembles any dem behavior on our planet is you. And, in case you ask, FreeRepublic is NOT on our planet.

[seabeyond]

66. was i not nice, not respectful.......i thought i was

in expressing i was only feeling "love" to you dude. just expressing my feeling on what you asked. certainly didnt think i was being not nice

meant to be nice.

[flaminbats]

68. welcome!

I only posted this so I could learn more about where we stand. I'm sorry to be such a neophyte. I expected the flames and the doubts. That's fine. I hope you guys don't treat everyone with questions like this the same.

One minor point, this is the internet..not the Democratic Party. Also the Republicans are the ones who interrogate and question their party members, we welcome everyone into our party. This is why we are called democrats. ;-)

[Stephanie]

100. Who is this "we" you speak of?

Just curious.

[faithnotgreed]

105. seabeyond - you said everything i would want to say but better!

and explaining that we have been lied to over and over again and told to keep quiet and told we are unpatriotic and aiding the enemy and such awfulness and many deaths of many innocent people i agree - this greatly pushes many to the point where we are

we need to and must speak out but i too wish there wasnt such anger and suspicion here
but what else can we expect (see 1st paragraph!)


but like i said - you said it all wonderfully with maturity and clarity

if i may - as a new person here myself i welcome genxpundit

[TexasSissy]

63. "Sit down my son." Let me explain.

You ain't seen nothin' if you think this board is hateful. If you like, I will provide you with some links to Republican rantings and ravings...they are really shocking and hatemongering of the worst sort. The worst you'll find on this board, usually, are some harmless nicknames that help let off steam. They do no one any real harm...and no one is calling that person that name to his/her face (or e-mail). To respond to Nader's calling Moore an awful name...PUBLICLY....because Moore didn't invite him to the opening SHOULD be pointed out, and harshly. Notice it wasn't done ON TV, like Nader's comment.

Incidentally, "Shrub" is a real nickname. They use it themselves.

I participate in a board comprised of ALL parties. By far, the Republicans are the worst. Cannot even have a rational discussion with most of them. The favorite term they call posters who don't agree w/them seems to be "lying commies." These are direct e-mails calling someone a name directly. You didn't see that here, did you?

Most of the posts here do deal with the issues. There are a few posters who go overboard regularly. That's them. There are some posters who "lose it" occasionally. And that's them (and me a time or two). People get angry. It happens.

So let us have our little board to discuss the issues and occasionally blow off steam. If you find something offensive, tell that poster so...or just move on to a post that discusses an issue you're interested in. Most of the posters here are discussing substantive matters. If you don't think so...maybe your perspective is a tad, well, shall we say, "conservative"?



BTW, in between the posts you find offensive, you will find REAL information.

[genxpundit]

70. Look, I don't doubt they are "hateful"

but my question was do we have to resort to the same tactics? Some people apparently think yes. That's fine. I, personally, don't. I wish that position didn't make people so angry.

[TexasSissy]

74. Did you read my post? I don't think we do resort to that.

We do not call each other names. Some posters refer to * and his administration as some names...but that's not TO them or on TV. And some really believe that Bush is a fascist, and they have a right to say so. (I'm not sure I know what a fascist is, so I'll pass on that one.) MOST of the posters are not "hateful" in their posts. There are just a few (like in any group, in any forum, on any bulletin board).

Just skip over the ones you find offensive. It's not that big a deal. There aren't that many. And there is the fact that some, like myself, TRULY think the future of the country is at stake, and there is so much unfair and untrue going on, that it is only natural to let off steam a bit...and not mince words when harsh words are descriptive.

But there's real information here. You want to know the sales of the Moore film? It was here. What is the Democratic view of unemployment? You'll find that here. Where's a link to the info about Cheney cussing on the Senate floor? You'd find that here. Is Gore giving a speech somewhere soon? You'd probably find that here. What's the status of Florida using the paperless voting computers? You'll find that here. If you are so offended, then you are probably not the kind of person who can participate in political forums (this is not like a gardening forum, which I also participate in).

[genxpundit]

85. I thought I did sorry.

I didn't mean to say that people here call each other names (although some responses to my post intimated a few names for me). I guess I choose to respond differently.

By the way, why the use of *? Just curious.

[Tsiyu]

113. Catch a Real Big Clue, SonnyBoy

You haven't lived through the assasination of your President, his brother and MLK. You haven't lived through the civil rights struggles, or through Viet Nam. You haven't sent a kid to war, you haven't seen one of the finest presidents we've had in my generation brought down by a bunch of sex-obsessed cretins. If you think that it is true that you "catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" you haven't been paying attention for the past 20 years or more. I don't want to catch no stinkin' flies. I want to get rid of flies. We have had the terms 'Democrat" and "Liberal" demonized to the point of being curses. No more. We are fighting fire with fire now and if that offends your delicate Gen X sensibilities, go bury your head in your pillow til the Gestapo comes for you. If those folks were mean to an old lady, maybe they had just seen F911 and were pumped. But i suspect you're a 60-something alcoholic with too much time on your hands. Suck an egg, pal.

[genxpundit]

71. I do understand that they say similar things.

My question was do we have to resort to the same tactics? Some people apparently think yes. That's fine. I, personally, don't. I wish that position didn't make people so angry.

[ibegurpard]

72. I MIGHT be convinced to believe your grandmother told you that

but NO WAY IN HELL do I believe it happened. John Kerry is about the most expasperatingly cautious politician that I have seen in some time and people that man his information booths aren't going to be calling people who wear flag pins "fascists."
If you're concerned about the tone of discourse in politics, take it up with the Republicans. The likes of Rush Limbaugh have been polluting the discourse for years. We've had enough and no amount of "please think of how this makes us look" is going to sway us.

[mandyky]

73. Let's cut to the chase - who do you plan on voting for in Nov?

If you are even drawn towards shrub, and you've seen F911 and have been listening to news anywhere except for Fox, why?

If you watch Fox, what shows and who do you agree with?

[genxpundit]

77. I still lean toward Kerry

But I'm still open to Nader or, dare I say it, the Libertarians.

I do watch CNN and Fox both so I can get a better perspective on things. Otherwise, I'll read the AP wire from time to time.

[mandyky]

78. I voted for Nader in 2000, but why he is running this time is

a mystery to me. Libertarians are Republicans on steroids when it comes to taxes and regulations on industry. The current administration has done so much damage to the environment and with the deficit, voting Kerry makes the most sense. Good luck making up your mind, you don't have to be a Dem to vote for Kerry. I am not as much for Kerry, as I am determined for regime change here in the good old US of A

[DrWeird]

81. You'd have to be retarded to vote for Bush.

And a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.

[genxpundit]

83. I'm not sure I'd use that word but I understand your point.

[Stephanie]

102. Oh God.

I suppose Fox and CNN balance each other out...?

Give it up!

[genxpundit]

107. Thanks for the encouragement.

[Stephanie]

109. Yes, it's my job to encourage you

Okay:

Be all that you can be! What are you doing here, GenX? Join up!

[Beacho]

79. Fox? Just sign up to get the daily GOP talking points

and save yourself the time

[Forkboy]

84. bahahahahahaha

tell your fascist granny we said hi!

[genxpundit]

87. I sure will.

:eyes:

[Cheswick2.0]

123. LOL

:hi:

[TankLV]

86. I utterly and completly smell a rat.

What you state would NEVER happen.

I DON'T BELIEVE YOU - AND NEITHER SHOULD ANYONE ELSE.

One of the first things they tell you, in EVERY Democratic Party function - especially voter registration events - is to be polite and nice and respectful to EVERYONE - no matter WHAT they do to you.

I think you are confusing Democrats with the repuke party.

Nice try.

No sale

But stick around.

You could learn a thing or two.

[genxpundit]

89. That's fine that you don't believe it.

I accept it as fact, as strange as it sounds. Every group has bad apples.

[flaminbats]

91. but remember the more important question...

which tree bears the best fruit?

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

103. "Every group has bad apples"

Just like Ahhh Booo Giraffe prison?

Bwwwahahahahhahahhaahhaaa...

RL

[tkmorris]

117. No. I call foul RIGHT there.

If as you say "every group has bad apples" then why on EARTH do you make a post asking us why we do it? You treat the Grandmother story not as if it was a few "bad apples" but as if it were representative of all of us.

Since you now admit that this isn't the way normal Dems act, your point and thread are totally moot aren't they?

Oh and by the way. Being a Moderate Democrat does NOT mean acting civil and calm while a Neocon places your children in debt up to their eyeballs, murders thousands in a war based on lies (that's spelled L*I*E*S, not bad intel), destroys the environment in order to save it, guts the public schools system, guts Medicaid, cuts veteran benefits, tramples on unions, destroys the nations reputation in the world, effectively removes us from the UN, and does all this and more while claiming to be a "good Christian". If anyone remains calm,cool and collected in the face of all this, son, they aint a Moderate, they're either a Neocon or a total wuss.

[checks-n-balances]

88. The opposite of your sentiment is: Today's Republican Party is different

from the one I used to know. Apparently, gone are the days of bipartisanship and "liberal republicans." I can appreciate that we don't want to project the same image that the Dem party did, say, at the 1968 Chicago Convention. But we're not "Yippies" anymore, much as the opposition enjoys caricaturing us that way.

There are dozens of reasons that their lowering of civility AND policies have become, IMHO, much more hateful in tone and intent, as several people have already pointed out. I may have only been in elementary school during the Kennedy administration, but I can remember Rockefeller, Jacob Javits, and many other admirable and bipartisan Republicans. And some of their party became much more reactionary with the ascendency and defeat of Goldwater in '64. Eventually, the Goldwater faction joined up with the religious right.

Later, throw in Newt Gingrich with his memo to other party members ("remember, use "pathetic," "loser," "dinosaur," "obsolete," etc. when speaking of "Democrat" Party members..."). We were THE ENEMY and from then on, WAR was to be waged on us. They thought they were entitled to all power in Washington and didn't want to share any of it. It took about 5 years or so, but didn't you notice that lots of the pro-life movement protest tactics resemble some of the anti-war demonstrations of the late 60's & early '70's?

In other words, first they copied many of the tactics of the "left-wing radicals" of "the sixties", much as they hated what they had seen. Then, the "Corporate Raider" faction gained strength in the '80's and joined with the Radical Religious Right, and together they hijacked the Republican Party.

We've listened to Zell Miller complain about how the Democratic Party has left him. If I were a moderate Republican - shoot, even as a lifelong Democrat - I think the real question is,

"WHERE'S THE REPUBLICAN PARTY I USED TO KNOW?"

edited to correct grammar

[ScreamingMeemie]

96. You sound very much like myself.

Yes there are hateful people here. There are hateful people everywhere, but never have I condemned someone for wearing a flag pin. And I have yet to see hatred portrayed in such a manner on the streets (hopefully it will stay that way). Am I angry? Heck yes. With good reason. We've had a lot of wool pulled over our eyes and I just want honest answers...and they don't seem to be forthcoming. Welcome to DU, and yes there are lots of us just like you. :hi:

[GoneOffShore]

97. Fox and CNN?

Try subscribing to Truthout.org and get the stories from the Guardian, Agence France Presse, and the BBC.
Fox is going to give you nothing but lies.

[Stephanie]

98. "we should be more careful"

Dead giveaway.

[salonghorn70]

99. My View

gexpundit, welcome to DU.:hi:

As to your original question, no, we should not stoop to the gutter. This Board doesn't represent average Democrats. The average Democrat doesn't like name-calling. They just want a candidate to tell them where they stand. Although I did not support Edwards, I think that is one reason that he did well in the primaries. He was positive.

Most posters know that I'm more middle of the road. Actually a DLC Democrat. A lot less liberal than most on the Board. But I really enjoy the Board. Lots of people have really thoughtful and interesting things to say. Do I agree with all of them? No. Do I call other people names? No. Am I rude? No. I just sit back and enjoy it. If you read something that you don't like, go on to something else. But remember that there are lots of cool people on this Board. Since I am respectful of others, I think posters respect me even if they don't agree with me.

So sit back. Enjoy the show. Have fun. Say nice things to people. So, here is my toasr to you. I hope that you stay on the Board.
:toast:

[nose pin]

101. Good post genx

I believe your story. It is no more unbelievable than many of the "I confronted a freeper" stories that are posted on DU daily, and given cheers by the same people that are giving you a hard time.

I've seen despicable behavior at voter registration tables manned by Dems, and have scolded many for giving us a bad name.

As a fellow newbie, I recommend that you use the "alert" button on anyone calling you a troll, freeper, liar, etc. It's your right. Don't let hypocrites push you around.

[salonghorn70]

104. Hey

nose pin, welcome to DU :hi:

[nose pin]

106. Thanks

:P

[OKNancy]

111. I don't believe half of those " I confronted a freeper"

stories either, in fact I don't believe half of any of the stories I read here..it is the internet afterall. I don't believe her story either, for what it's worth.

[nose pin]

112. Consistency

is a virtue we could use more of around here.

[Cheswick2.0]

124. hey are you guys haveing a reunion?

Fabo! When can we expect DFU to join us?

[Sushi-Lover]

110. No one knows if anything they read in a post is true,

so I'll just take your story at face value. I can think of two possibilities 1. That young person was, in fact, not a Kerry supporter and/or 2. That young person was a total idiot. Those seem like the only options. I'm not sure what either has to do with DU unless you think that person happened to be a member?

I do agree that the tone of political discourse has taken a turn for the worse, but I have to say that both sides are responsible and it is mostly the politicians and media people that are at fault for actively demonizing the opposing political group instead of talking about real policy differences. Until that stops, you won't see any improvement in how us common folks communicate about political differences.

I'll also echo what other's have said. DU is not representative of the Democratic party. It is representative of a political internet discussion board. This is also true of conservative boards. As much as I oppose the positions on many issues espoused by Republicans, I would never take FR as representative of that party. If you want to know about the Democratic party, have a discussion with your grandma and other members of your family or other Democrats you know in the real world.

[salonghorn70]

116. What A Revolutionary Idea

Sushi-Lover, do you actually mean it might be helpful to talk to real average Democrats instead of DU posters, if you want to know what Democrats really believe? You mean like real grandmothers?
LOL!!!:)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

114. *YAWN*

:boring:

Tiresome. Transparent. Why is everyone wasting time with this one? He is rehashing typical freeper ploys. He's not even original! :eyes:

[charlie]

115. Another Flagpin Fascist

GIT HIM!!

[Cheswick2.0]

118. OM God! That was you and your Grammy? I'm sorry man

I would never have called the old broad a fascist if I knew she was a democrat. We usually set up a table there to call old people fascists. Now I just am not going to do this anymore. After all I only hate republicans.

[Tight_rope]

119. Welcome to DU genxpundit!

[Blue_Roses]

126. It is definitely a slow news day with a hundred or

more posts to this thread.

[veracity]

127. There are no issues. This is not about issues!!!!!

This election is about getting George Bush back to Texas. It's about saving the nation. It's about stopping the right wing from dominating the Supreme Court as judges retire. It's about separation of Church and State. It's about respecting individual choices for women and gays and everyone. It's about stem cell research and real science. It's about restoring the dignity of this nation. It's about ending the arrogance that allows this country to kill tens of thousands of innocent people for its own greed need for power. Its about the end of the Bush doctrine of preventive and pre-emptive strikes if we SUSPECT a nation of being 'evil." It's about an end to the might makes right attitude that allows only the US and its select group of poodles own nuclear weapons. It's about health care for everyone and an end to the outrageous profits of the pharmaceutical companies. It's about the enormous deficit that our grandchildren will be paying. It's about the environment and the disastrous legislation Bush has pushed through. It's about GETTING RID OF BUSH. Not about parties or theories or platforms or labels. It's about saving America.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.