Have you run into any word class spin-masters online?

[zaj]

Guys who will debate in forums and pull all of the professional political tricks?

Not just the becoming very common things like blindly advancing rhetoric and uninformed lies...

But the real pros...

The people who skillfully attempt to control the terms of the debate.

- They will start a new thread rather than respond to your debunking one of their posts so that they can seperate the posts, and more effectively attempt to reset the conversation on their terms, rather than being on the defensive on your terms.
- They will choose not to quote your post (vBulletin/PHPBB), but rather paraphrase your comments so that they can regain the defintion of the terms of the conversation.
- They will paraphrase segments of a cited supporting article rather than pulling the actual quotes so they can restate the quote in their own language.
- They will quote a single segment of a larger, more extensive quote, and then describe the context of the quote in their own terms in order to redefine the terms of the discussion in their favor.

In the past, these kind of discussions were inadvertant acts of "talking past each other". But that act of talking past each other has recently become a deliberate tool of propaganda and manipulation.

It's a MAJOR problem in our fast-paced, sound-byte media where talking heads use duplicity to plant one seed while leaving a technicality escape-hatch when challenged as a "liar".

I find it fascinating that I encounter more and more people who are using these very intentional and very skillful (a learned/taught skill) conversational tactic.

[greenbriar]

1. oh yea

there are a few "experts"

on chiefs planet


one word

[zaj]

3. Hey Pam

;)

[tjwash]

2. They are also known as...

"Agents"

[wicket]

4. oh yes

I run into people like this all the time, though one that hangs out on another board I frequent stands out particularily.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. No, just the usual suspects who mouth talking points a lot and engage

in a lot of "shouting" via their keyboards. Really tiresome.

[Warpy]

6. Chat forums sport college kids who are paid to log hours

every day spouting RNC talking points. They're usually pretty easy to spot, the ditto list varies little, they rarely converse, and the timing is often predictable.

I guess it pays better and is easier work than stocking shelves in the campus bookstore or busing tables in the cafeteria.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

7. If seven hundred monkeys typed for seven hundred years,

one of them would produce the works of Joseph Goebbels.

[BrotherBuzz]

8. Here are a few tools to fight back

Logical Fallacies

Ad Hominem Argument
The person rather than the position is attacked

Bandwagon Argument
Assumes the popular position is almost necessarily the correct one

Circular Argument
The truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises

Either/Or Argument
Two and only two options are provided when alternative positions are available

False Analogy
The two items compared are dissimilar

Hasty Generalization
The sample is too small to support the generalization

Non Sequiter Argument
A statement is made which does not logically follow from what has been just stated

Post Hoc Argument
Because one event follows another the first event is assumed to be the cause of the second event

Red Herring Argument
Argument which distracts the audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy

Slippery Slope Argument
A series of increasingly unacceptable, usually disastrous, consequences occur

Strawman Argument
Attacking an argument that is different and usually weaker than the opponent's best argument


Beware of the real sneaky ones that use combinations of the above to really mess with your head. Some will actually argue a non sequiter hidden inside of a red herring and slide into a circular argument while trying to rile you with an ad hominem (you get the idea).

[Pepperbelly]

11. The list does leave out the most egregious- butchered logic and

ignorance.

It is AMAZING how many people do not have a clue regarding how to assess the logical validity of propositions using the classical methods.

[BrotherBuzz]

12. Silly me for assuming that those were a given.

:)


On edit: a bad speilling and syntax day.

[MercutioATC]

9. Check out the 9/11 forum here at DU and look at some of the CT posts.

Some of them are masters at it.

[Pepperbelly]

10. I have met poseurs who believe themselves spin meisters.

It usually turns out that they, of course, are not. Rather they are usually self-involved talk radio listners who really believe Limbaugh's "how to defeat a liberal" nonsense.

Chumps.