What differences do you have with Kerry/Edwards

[No Passaran]

Let me say this first: I will vote for Kerry/Edwards no matter what because defeating Bush is really our top priority right now. However, there are some issues that I do have with Kerry/Edwards that I feel need to be explained:

1. Their support for the war in Iraq in the beginning of 2003
2. Kerry's support for Israel

Anyone here agrees with me? I know no candidate is perfect but I'm not gonna be blind and just forget about these issues. That's why we Democrats are better than Republicans. We should give our support to Kerry/Edwards but still question some decisions and not take everything they say and swallow it.

[Meritaten1]

1. Now is the time to unite!

Why focus on differences when there is so much to unite everyone who wants to see the Bush/Cheney administration defeated in the election?

[JHBowden]

2. A moderate, I have differences with the Democratic Party.

The first order of business, though, is to get that joker and his crooked team out of the White House.

[Tyler Durden]

6. RIGHT FUCKING ON, BROTHER!

We can piss on Kerry and Edwards for the next 4 years.

Let's just get these criminals out so we can start PROSECUTING them and get them safely in JAIL.

[bigbillhaywood]

11. HA HA! You think Kerry/Edwards will prosecute the Bush gang and

seek jail time? Capitalist politicians do not do that to each other, generally speaking. Have fun with your daydream though.

[Tyler Durden]

20. Hey, I can DREAM, can't I?

Sure would be nice to watch a few of those bastards do the "Perp Walk" wouldn't it?

[bigbillhaywood]

51. Can't blame you for it. I dream of a day when people like Kerry and

Edwards are considered the worse of two evils, rather than the lesser. I dream of a day when all the corporate whore politicians, Dem and Repub are locked up. People like those in the Bush Gang could serve life sentences doing hard labor. The Dems (other than Lieberman and Zell) could get shorter sentences in medium security facilities.

[Name removed]

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[JHBowden]

5. Calm the Cheney down.

Nobody's perfect!

[Tyler Durden]

8. NO.

I lived through NIXON, and I will not be calm.

Jesus Mother Pus Bucket, I have to establish citizenship in ANOTHER COUNTRY just to protect my two draft age sons JUST IN CASE THIS MOTHERFUCKER STAYS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AND YOU WANT ME TO BE CALM?!?!?

You must be trippin'.

[jdj]

21. I have to say, if I were a parent in your situation

I might respond this way as well.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[JHBowden]

13. Yeeargh!

You need to find some Naderites to beat on.

[Tyler Durden]

16. OH and BY THE WAY....

I have racked up credit debt for the Clark, Dean, Edwards, AND Kerry Campaign. I make my own bumper stickers and post them liberally giving extras to friends, and YES, I am working on the Campaign, like I did for McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and now Kerry.

Why don't you show your ass some more? There are people out here who do not appreciate divisiveness in this date of crisis.

[Name removed]

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[Tyler Durden]

22. I prefer good scotch wisky.

I just got mortally pissed off at another FOOL ready to give ammo to the enemy.

Thank GOD this is his/her only soapbox, or one can hope.

Say, why doesn't that person vent that little bit of spleen the next time he volunteers for Kerry. THAT will go over like a turd in a punchbowl.

[bigbillhaywood]

31. Jesus, man. Sounds like you need more than that shot of scotch--

Try crushing two 15-hour time release Verceds ("blue meanies") into your Johnnie Walker. That oughta do it. Remember, no message board posting until at least 12 hours after your last crank shot.

[JHBowden]

32. LOL!

:hangover:

[Tyler Durden]

37. Johnny Walker?? I'd rather drink my own urine.

Try Dalmore 12 year old, or better yet, Oban.

God did not intend for whisky to be mixed, only savored.

[bigbillhaywood]

43. Two crushed Verceds at that dose and you wouldn't care if it was urine

Best part is you won't remember any of it.

[No Passaran]

18. Oh we're not worthy

"AND THE REASON YOU CAN SPEW YOUR FUCKING OPINION is that people like me did time in the Political and Military (13 years USN/USMC) so people like you could start raising bullshit questions"

Sorry to burst your bubble but I have done things for this country in the Political and Military (war veteran). So yeah their decision to go to war affected me personally. You have your two sons and you're worried about them being drafted? I'm sorry but they will be drafted because the whole friking congress voted and supported the war. But at least you got to see your sons grow up. My own kid doesn't even know me anymore. I'm gone half the time and I'm about to be deployed to Iraq for the second time. So don't tell me to be quiet about some issues that affect me personally.

[Tyler Durden]

24. You don't have to be quiet!

Except for RIGHT NOW.

WAIT until these guys get in: then SCREAM YOUR HEAD OFF.

Don't think for one minute that I won't. They get no free pass from ME after the 15 of January 2005.

I am in earnest here: I don't think I have to tell you about illegal wars, but Jesus, the country is STILL 50/50 on the election. Even HERE, it is about time to start watching our mouths regarding the foibles and faults of our candidates.

And my sons will go to College, in CANADA, as CANADIAN IMMIGRANTS. I couldn't convince them to stay here if Kerry got elected, jailed Bush and announced Universal Healthcare. I think they're smarter than me.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Media_Lies_Daily]

52. LOL!! I've supported Democratic candidates since the 1960 election...

...when I was 9 years old and old enough to figure out that Nixon was a crook. I also marched against the Vietnam War when I was 19 years old. I've been on the Internet since 1992 when I bought my first PC, but didn't discover this site until late 2003.

I attended Virginia Tech from 1969 until 1976, and earned two BA degrees in the process.

When I became old enough to vote in 1972, I voted straight Democratic tickets in every election to include the mid-term elections of 2002. I've given money and time to presidential candidates to include JFK (handed out flyers), LBJ, Humphrey, McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and now Kerry.

I come from a long line of Democrats...I remember stories my Dad told me about his father fighting the union battles in the coal country of West Virginia and eastern Kentucky. My Dad fought in WWII, and he tells me that what he fought against in Europe has taken over here in the U. S....and he's 100% correct. I also remember my Mom's great-aunts telling me their stories of marching for the right to vote.

I also served in the Navy from 1976 until 1981...first as an enlistee after finishing college and then as an officer. Served the last three years attached to the Marines as a Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer and Fire Support Coordinator.

When did YOU join the fight, sonny-boy? Maybe the better question is WHEN were you even born?

[Zomby Woof]

10. All aboard!

I see you have your Underground Railroad pass ready. :-) :thumbsup:

[Zomby Woof]

4. a few

With Bush/Cheney: a lot.

[bigbillhaywood]

7. Difference? I'm working class. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

14. Kerry won't give Ariel Sharon the kick in the balls that he deserves

But that's the only major issue that I'm really all that concerned about.

[Swamp Rat]

23. Sorry dude, lame post... especially since we should be celebrating such a

great ticket: Kerry and Edwards. The nature of your post contradicts your "Kerry/Edwards" sig line.

Why don't we focus on all the evil shit Bush&Co are doing right now? I look forward to your next post: "What differences do you have with Bush/Cheney."

[No Passaran]

25. Not really

When he comes to my state in few days I will ask him personally (if I get a chance, right now it looks like I will) about his decision to back Israel.

[Name removed]

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[No Passaran]

35. Round two? There was never a round one with you

what're we, kids?
you should be more wise in your old age.

[Swamp Rat]

29. Why? Do you want Bush to win?

Please explain to me HOW you will help Kerry and Edwards win in November by asking such a divisive question at this time?

Question: How are you helping?

[Tyler Durden]

34. No. He is blinded by SELFISHNESS.

He obviously has an Anti-Israel grudge (not that they are on MY Christmas/Haunakka list) and it is more important to him than the need for victory in November.

Not to piss off another group, but that sort of thinking makes it reasonable for some liberals/progressives to support Nader.

Well, he's headed back to Iraq: may he come home SAFE, no matter WHO is in the White House. I wouldn't even deny him a ticket on the New Underground Railroad, but it would give me indigestion to do it.

[Swamp Rat]

42. I'm sorry but I do not to whom you are speaking or about whom you speak.

You used a lot of pronouns, and I'd like to know who "he" is. My concern in this thread is about criticizing Kerry for ANYTHING at this time. If Kerry does something asinine in 2005, well let's worry about that then.

[Tyler Durden]

46. Refering to the original poster.

I would support "Cretin/Dust Bunny" as a ticket if that would get Bush out, and I would declare my undying support for future President Cretin...

...until 1/5/05.

Hey, I'm with you. That anyone would consider giving this sort of tangental and accidental support to Bush is what pissed me off.

[Swamp Rat]

50. Yes, that's why I am going to keep asking this same question until I get a

strait answer: HOW is criticizing Kerry AT THIS TIME going to HELP him win in November. I don't mind the other posters disagreeing with me, but I'd like to understand the logic behind it. I'm not buying the current argument that it "is good to dissent on DU," for THIS SPECIFIC issue.

My thesis is: Any criticism against Kerry at this time will tangentially help Bush, no matter how good the intentions.

[Tyler Durden]

26. A good suggestion. Here's one from me:

Our comrade here spoke without thinking about consequences and I reacted.

Time to bury the hatchet? Or do you want to go for Round Two?

[No Passaran]

33. just a suggesion for you

you should calm down a little bit. don't want you to have a heart attack. you should take that energy and commit to the campaign.

i have no problems with your opinion. i hope your sons dont have to go thru the same things I'm going thru right now.

and if we have any issues with our candidates then where better to point them out then right here on DU. then maybe we can raise these questions privately (not publically, maybe I shouldn't have started this thread so some freeper can copy/paste the link to this discussion) with our candidates

[Tyler Durden]

41. This place is WATCHED.

And we do not need to give any aid or comfort to the enemy.

Why do you feel it so necessary?

I can see the headlines NOW: "Kerry support blasts him on Israel during campaign stop. His own supporters don't really support him."

BROCocky, you can't BUY publicity like that. Why give it to the Bushites?

[Forkboy]

65. You sound like Ari

Try some decaf.

[Swamp Rat]

44. You made a good point. This thread can be exploited by freepers.

[Tyler Durden]

27. A good suggestion. Here's one from me:

Our comrade here spoke without thinking about consequences and I reacted.

Time to bury the hatchet? Or do you want to go for Round Two?

[Swamp Rat]

36. I'd like to resolve this issue with any DUers that want to criticize Kerry

at this time. This needs to stop. I'm not for censoring folks here, but I'd like to know how and why is it reasonable or logical to nitpick Kerry and Edwards AT THIS TIME.

[No Passaran]

40. you're missing the point here

if you can't ask your candidate in private about something that's bothering you then he will never know how you feel.

[Swamp Rat]

47. No I didn't miss the point, but you didn't answer my question. HOW

are you helping by asking critical questions of Kerry AT THIS TIME, especially concerning a topic that cannot be resolved easily or even in the space/time of any one particular administration?

[No Passaran]

49. because

He's alienating some independents that I know who would've voted for him and are not considering voting for Nader.

Let me give you an example:
My father is an independent. He's the guy who was gonan vote for Bush in '92 but changed his mind because of Bosnia and Bush's stance on Bosnian situtation at that time. In '96 he was in love with Clinton so I don't have to tell you about his choice in '96. In 2000 because of Lieberman and his stance on Israel he voted for Bush. Right now he's considering voting for Nader and I'm trying to convince him that I will find out more about Kerry's position on Israel since that's his major issue with Kerry. Don't ask me what his fixation is with Israel but we were always raised to be compassionate with little people and in this case it's Palestinians, Bosnaians, Chechens and the list goes on..

He's from North Carolina.

[Swamp Rat]

53. Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

I agree that Kerry needs to reach out to Nader voters, and ALL Americans in general, but that doesn't mean Kerry should make a significant change to his current platform. I'm interested in specific ways in which Kerry could draw away Nader supporters, and if you have a suggestion I'd like to hear it.

My thesis is that ANY criticism against Kerry, at this time, will tangentially help Bush, no matter how good the intentions. Perhaps I am wrong, but you still haven't answered my question: HOW will it help Kerry at this time.

[No Passaran]

59. OK

Nader is tougher on Israel and is not supporting Sharon. I mean the guy is of Arabic ancestry. I believe more and more people who hate Bush but don't like Kerry's policy of basically supporting Sharon turn to Nader.

We need to let Kerry know that he's alienating potential voters in swing states by doing this.

I personally don't believe in favoring one nation over the other. I just dislike Ariel Sharon and every Israel government that treats Palestinians like they're second class citizens. Believe me, if Palestinians were running the country and were doing the same thing to Israelis I would support Israelis.

It's that simple.

[Swamp Rat]

64. It's NOT that simple. I don't want to get into Israeli/Palestinian issues

here. That topic belongs in another board as it usually become incendiary, but I will say that this is not a criticism that will help Kerry in any way. It is a divisive issue and if I were Kerry, I wouldn't even attempt to take sides other than to say that we must seek a peaceful resolution.

By the way, I know not one Jew (and we have a large Jewish community here) that will vote for Nader. Not ONE. If you're suggesting that Kerry pander to the "Jewish Nader vote," then I want to see any evidence that a significant Jewish population IS voting for Nader in the first place.

[No Passaran]

70. I'm not talking about Jewish population

I'm talking about actual Arab vote. They always voted republican and I know they won't do it this year but that doesn't mean they'll vote for Kerry and with his statements he's really not helping.

[troublemaker]

39. Why?

The poster is going to vote for Kerry. You are too. So am I. And none of our votes will get counted more because of our depth of conviction.

The abject deviance of Bush is well covered elsewhere on these boards. One could even say critiques of Bush are the norm here.

As our VP might say, there are two unities; inclusive unity and "fuck you" unity. The simplest way to achieve perfect unity is to be alone. Alienating people with demands for incessant mindless cheer-leading will unify those who remain, thus creating an illusion of consensus. Inclusion of dissent short of malicious trolling leads to a less unified but somewhat larger board, with more people being exposed to the prevailing DU themes.

[Swamp Rat]

48. You've stated the obvious. Care to answer my question?

HOW is criticizing Kerry AT THIS TIME, about divisive, and long-term issues going to HELP him win in November.

Keep in mind that I am the type who is usually one of the first to dissent on any given issue and/or play the devil's advocate. Right now, I'm only concerned with this narrowly defined issue at hand.

[Djinn]

54. How is disagreeing with Kerry/Edwards

going to HURT them? Are there any people out there who are currently going to vote Bush/Cheney or are not yet sure who'll say "gee look honey not every single liberal out there agree's with every single thing Kerry says, better not vote for him" ???

[Swamp Rat]

56. Good question.

How about answering mine first? HOW will criticizing Kerry, especially for issues that cannot possibly be resolved in 4 months, HELP him defeat Bush? It's a simple question. You may have a very good answer and I want to hear it.

My thesis is: Any criticism against Kerry AT THIS TIME will tangentially help Bush, no matter how good the intentions.

[Djinn]

58. it wont help him or hurt his chances

at all.

As for why question him now - why not - isn't that what "Freedom" TM is all about

[troublemaker]

57. How does hassling dedicated Kerry voters help Kerry win?

A hypothetical undecided voter reading DU sees a thread about what differences a person has with Kerry. Absent aggressive mind-control from concerned citizens that hypothetical voter would see a lot of things like "He's not committed to a Canadian style health care system but he's better than Bush."

Actual swing voters who want a Canadian system are already not voting for Bush. Those who oppose such a system will be relieved by what you think of as divisive Kerry-bashing. Wow, these communists aren't wild about Kerry. He must be a centrist.

Instead they see something that disgusts independents from either party; raw thoughtless group-think partisanship.

So who's helping who win?

[Swamp Rat]

63. "So who's helping who win?" Those who attack Kerry right now for WHATEVER

reason. Stop assuming that this is single-minded, lock-step thinking by myopic partisans. Do I need to remind everybody here that THERE ARE NO OTHER CHOICES for us right now, unless you want to vote for Bush or Nader.

The hypothetical you presented is extreme, and makes a few assumptions: A fence-sitter who comes at DU for whatever reason, assumes that we are lock-step supporters of Kerry to the detriment of free will. This is YOUR assumption as to how "independents from either party" think. Also, in light of the namesake of this forum, why would unassuming citizens think that this was NOT a partisan board?

"Those who oppose such a system will be relieved by what you think of as divisive Kerry-bashing. Wow, these communists aren't wild about Kerry. He must be a centrist."

This is not a logical statement. I cannot argue against your hypothetical that accuses me of not acting like a Commie. For your info, I am no where near the definition of "centrist," politically speaking. Anyway, the divisive issue to which I was referring was the Israeli/Palestinian, which does not belong in this thread.

"Instead they see something that disgusts independents from either party; raw thoughtless group-think partisanship."

So who's helping who win? Maybe you are helping Bush right now... that is my point. Why do you choose to harass Kerry and his "lock-step" supporters on a Dem board AT THIS TIME??? This is the crux of my point: AT THIS TIME. If we were to speak before the nomination of Kerry, then you would have heard quite a bit of Kerry criticism.

Again, I will repeat: I am for dissent and free speech.

[Forkboy]

66. "I am for dissent and free speech."

At designated times,and only when it suits us.

[Swamp Rat]

69. Ha ha! Fork off Forkboy!

You got me there! :toast:

Seriously, I have family in Iraq and they've recalled my cousin that already did one tour. Bush MUST be defeated, therefore I jumped on the Kerry train since he's all we've got. If Kerry doesn't recall the troops ala Dennis K., I'm going to D.C. and will camp on the WH lawn, if I have to, in order to oust Kerry. After November, I'll have some nasty letters to write to the DLC and my own reps here in LA for this shit they got us into. In fact, I'd like for a few Dems to go to jail along with the GOP fascists. Right now, I'm just trying to be practical and protect my family.

[truthspeaker]

67. Discussing areas where we differ is not "attacking"

[Swamp Rat]

68. LOL!!! Yeah, I started to get carried away there, but I've seen quite a

lot of "attacking" Kerry on DU. Before he was nominated I bashed the shit out of him, but now I'm trying to rally everyone to OUR cause. Let's get Kerry elected, THEN make sure he represents us... and kick his ass out if he screws up. I've got family in Iraq and I'm DAMNED sure that Bush is gonna keep 'em there. This NIGHTMARE must end. If Kerry doesn't bring the troops home, I'll be on the first bus to D.C. to go protest, taking civil disobedience to a new level.

[Neshanic]

30. Wish Edwards would cut his hair a bit shorter....he's adorable.

[Radical Activist]

38. I oppose the Iraq War, WTO, NAFTA

All of which Kerry supported and I think those are probably the most important issues right now. At least Edwards sound better on trade than Kerry.

[Sugarbleus]

55. Your sentiments are mine as well as

I didn't hear anything mentioned about the POOR, the disadvantaged, ...what about social programs and the diabled, the elderly, healthcare FOR EVERYONE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY WORK OR NOT? ie: Universal healthcare or cheap single payer healthcare for those that can pay.

What about homelessness and those about to lose their domiciles for lack of jobs? I think supporting the middle class and not the upper class is a great start, but don't forget about all of us down here who clean the bathrooms in those offices, or wash your cars, or serve your breakfasts at those fine restaurants. Don't forget about the Mental Health issues that are at an all time high...everyone just keeps sweeping that under the rug. Reagan started a bad thing but no one after him did a damn thing to fix it. What about fatherless children? etc etc etc.......

I will vote for Kerry/Edwards because Bush is evil in the extreme and would just keep gutting and gutting more from all the people and all the world. But I want captitalism with a conscience instead of run away greed and living just to see how much money one can horde away.......

No candidate is going to be perfect nor be able to address every single issue all at once. I just think that the moral and ethical issues should come first and that's about the people's needs from the bottom up. GO JOHN JOHN

[neebob]

45. Ditto on both of your differences

and on forgetting about them. Otherwise, I'm stoked.

[truthspeaker]

60. Their opposition to pulling troops out of Iraq now

[No Passaran]

61. Good job. I forgot to mention this one

That should be #1 on my list

In the army there are a lot of independent voters and when we talk the first thing they ask is: "So what's he gonna do about Iraq?" Then another one will say: "He's gonna keep us over there just like Bush so why bother".

If he said he was gonna pull the troops out of Iraq I truly believe that the majority of our Armed Forces would vote for Kerry/Edwards.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

62. It's better to vote for the guy you hope will get you out of the Middle...

...East than to vote for the guy you KNOW will keep you there.

But what do I know, right? After all, to hear you tell it, I've only been posting on this board since late 2003 so I shouldn't have much of an opinion.

Did you read my post #52, or are you trying to avoid making another smartass response?

[DaveSZ]

71. I have the same reservations

-Kerry's support for Sharon

-Kerry/Edwards' support of the war