Rightwing mother inlaw.

[supercrash]

We talk about current issues at the dinner table

Iraq. We are talking about the Iraq war and how the American people were tricked into war...she says.."We didn't start it"

I explode..."I must have missed when Saddam attacked the USA, when did that happen again ?" ...she is silent with stupidity


Torture. her son and her claim we have to torture to get information...I told them that the Iraqi resistance also has to torture to get information...they get upset, and look at me like I am anti-American


John Kerry. The topic turns to Kerry...she says..."Kerry and Bush will be exactly the same..no difference, I just don't like John Kerry"...I ask.."WHY don't you like Kerry ? ...Is it because he requested to serve in Nam when Jr. was going AWOL ?..Is it the 3 purple hearts that Kerry recieved that you don't like ?" ....She responds..."I just don't like John Kerry"

Welcome to America people...This is the Republican base

Any other horror stories ?

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Fundagelical in-laws and church pastor love him for being a "Godly" man

:eyes:

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[olddem43]

2. Don't waste time on people like that -

just hope they stay home on Nov. 2

[opihimoimoi]

3. Her Mind was Stolen, report it to the Police Brain Theft Unit

There is still hope.

12 Step Programs exist.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. Send her to Iraq to look for her stolen mind!

Buy her a ticket to Moore's film!

[opihimoimoi]

38. May be, jus maybe,, it will have some effect. On the cynical side,

forget it, save the money, get a #3 Meal Deal instead... mom's too hard core due to long term exposure to Right Wing Shit, its almost Hopeless.

Use Wish Button instead.

[Hubert Flottz]

41. I saw the film yesterday! WOW!

I never noticed a single lie in it!

[opihimoimoi]

45. The Pubs gonna have to choke this one down..... the TRUTH HURTS

[billybob537]

4. This is why we have to serious rework

in the education dept.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Amen! the * plan is to teach kids to take tests, not actually think

for themselves.

[billybob537]

7. The Bush* plan is to take money

away from everything that is good and give it to millionaires.

[southernleftylady]

6. Sounds JUST like my inlaws! drives me crazy! "he is no war hero"

uhm.. he went to war... served his country... saw how horrible it was and stood up against it...
or you get a guy who went awol
im just dumbfounded

[billybob537]

9. They don't give purple hearts

to chickenhawks.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. i'm just dumbfounded

As was I when I saw this bumpersticker on a PT Cruiser the other day, "Vet..... Not for Kerry" :crazy: :shrug:

[Cats Against Frist]

8. People who tell me to "Read my Bible"

for answers, when I full well know they've never cracked a Bible in their lives.

People do say "I just don't like John Kerry," and it's because of this bullshit about him being "Patrician" or "looking French." It's the same deal where they're jealous because they think Liberals are smarter and cooler than them, which they are, and are looking down on them.

[billybob537]

10. And are way better looking

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. Some Christian friends of mine

say that they've read the Bible and have discovered that Bush IS the Anti-Christ!

[mermaid]

18. To Borrow A Quote From Someone Else Here On DU

Wish I could properly credit this one...I told them it would make an EXCELLENT bumper sticker...

Better to LOOK French than to ACT Taliban!!

[Bruce McAuley]

24. I ask them if Bush is the Anti-Christ...

If they're fundamentalist. If they're Catholic, I mention I've read the Pope is worried that Bush might be the Anti-Christ. Works for most religionists.
:hi:

Bruce

[CBHagman]

69. The next time someone tells you to "read your Bible"...

...as a justification for right-wing policies, you may sweetly tell them, "Well, the New Testament says the spirit-filled person is full of gentleness and self-control, and that we should take care of widows and orphans, and visit the sick and imprisoned. Oh, and there's plenty in there about not giving preferential treatment to the wealthy. And Jesus healed people and didn't say the market should provide health care. So how is it that you believe the New Testament supports the current administration?"

If that doesn't make their jaws drop, I give up!

[SharonAnn]

74. I do somewhat the same thing but with a twist. I say that as a

I do somewhat the same thing but with a twist. I say that as a practicing Christian, i couldn't be anyting but a Democrat and vote for Democrats as long as the Republicans seem to be against everything I learned from the Bible.

When people here say "How could you be a Democrat?", and I live in a 90% Republican area, I say "Well, as a practicing Christian it is one of the significant ways I can live out the values that Jesus taught us."

I have a variety of these, but since they're typically very "Christian" people, I usually use that as the foundation for my voting choice.

I don't say anything about them or attack their judgment or interpretation, just about mine. If I'm challenged on this, I refer to one or more theologians or theological writings about Christianity and how to live it in today's world, tell them that I found this person/book deeply meaningful.

Maybe if I get aggravated enough someday, I'll just tell them that I vote for the Democrats because "God told me to".

[Geo55]

78. "I can live out the values that Jesus taught us"

Excellent....passive resistance...a critical thinking Christian !
Give 'em HELL Shar !....lol

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

11. Oh yes, I post all the time about mine

The conversations sound just like yours and it drives me ca-razy! The reason it drives me insane is -- if you never talked politics with them, you would see them as bright, modern people with a good sense of humor. But politics the past few years has brought something so ugly to light with them.

All the talk radio and Fox News has encouraged them to announce they are racist and hate Democrats and are proud of it. They like to act post-modern and cynical and above-it-all, but the truth is they never know any facts, just stupid talking points. Strangely, they say weird things like Bush says -- if we ask about how the policies will affect their grandkids, they'll say, "Oh who knows, I'll be dead!" What kind of weird way is that to think? They think it's funny and like to tweak my husband, me and my one BIL about it, because they know we think it's bizarre and creepy.

I have come to the conclusion that they enjoy the hatred they are fed daily because they are bored and also it makes them feel morally superior. I have also come to the conclusion that their values indicate a low character. I still love them and enjoy spending time with them, but I have decided they are to be pitied.

Some emotion in the brains of the Bush-lovers are keeping them from facing facts and reality, because in all these conversations, they are not offering logical arguments.

[supercrash]

12. Your right

I have NEVER been offered a fact from these hacks

They are SO misinformed...and their opinions and decisions are putting ME in danger

I really hope these Americans reap what they sow

If they don't...then there will be NO lesson learned...and they will repeat this

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

15. What bugs me is that it won't be

my in-laws that will be affected, it will be my nieces and nephews. The in-laws are financially set and I'm glad for them. But it's the kids will be stuck with the cost of the war, the economy, god-knows what kind of social policies if Bush gets to pick more judges and the Supreme Court, and even possibly a draft for these wars for empire until they are 34 years old! Plus all the hate and division and so much more. It's sick.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. What happens to me

is these people start calling me names. They aren't interested in civilized discussion, only in hammering home their 'points', which are not based on logic or even correct information. One thing I have found is these people really enjoy hating others, which is very very sad.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

28. And this hostility that they have perplexes me

because they seem so angry, frustrated, victimized and sort of like they feel powerless and impotent. And yet, they are the most privileged, lucky people on the face of the earth. Comfortable suburbanites that drive SUVs and minivans and live a life of consumerism and ease.

My FIL never had to worry about a job, Always had one through connections and eventually inherited money. Yet, they are so upset about the liberals, that they will ignore every social issue, just so their guy can stick it to those liberals! And the more powerful the Republicans get, the more aggrieved and victimized they feel. This is why I can't help seeing a comparison to Nazis, even though everybody says that is wrong to see. Who else can we look at in history who were so powerful, acted like such bullies and yet felt THEY were the big victims?

What gives with this?

[leesa]

13. Just keep asking "Why". They never know the answer to that because

their teevees only give them the bit of jingo, "I don't like Kerry", but they don't tell them why that is the case so they haven't a clue.

[AlCzervik]

14. My RW sister in law

was a huge * supporter, based on tax cuts. She is much older than me and she and her husband have alot of money. She found out our nephew was getting deployed again to Iraq after spending almost a year an Afghanistan and she lost it. She called me, very upset and said she can't vote for * but she won't vote for Kerry so she is staying home. I stopped talking politics with her a long time ago so when she called i let her vent and cry, i'd rather her stay home than vote for *.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Not voting

by a former * supporter will only help our cause. Commisserate with her; the chickens have come home to roost, and her eyes are opening to the truth.

[mermaid]

22. Good Move

If she just stays home, that will help us. she isn't ready, yet, to see the light, and change her political views enough to vote FOR our guy. She has seen just enough that she WON'T vote for their guy, and that is the best we can hope for. Let her work it out for herself with her tears...and be ready to offer her a shoulder if she needs one.
In the end, we will win her over to the Good Side...

[BillZBubb]

23. You're a much kinder person than I.

I would have told her she has reaped what she has sown. For a few pennies in tax cuts, she has had to pay with her sons safety.

You make a deal with the devil, and eventually the bill comes due. Hopefully, her tax cut was worth it.

And the IDIOT still won't vote for Kerry! DISGUSTING!

[AlCzervik]

25. No i'm not kinder

but i do lnow that it is pointless to try and sway her, and besides * himself did that job for me. She can't stand the thought of our nephew in Iraq and her son my other nephew is almost 18 and she fears a draft even though she won't say it. In a side note, arguing with her on served to piss me off, i have enough aggrevation in my life without adding to it. I'm more of a kill them with kindness person.

[calico1]

30. I think you did the right thing

And besides, if you let her have it, tell her it serves her right, etc. (even if you think she does) she might decide to vote for Bush just out of spite and to prove you wrong. The RWers don't like to admit they are wrong! Or admit anything like she did and then be given a hard time about it. So if she at least says she won't vote for * then that is good enough. So I think you are doing the right thing.

[Arugula Latte]

29. Sadly, this is typical

It's always "I'm getting mine, screw everyone else" until they're the ones getting screwed over.

[AlCzervik]

34. Yeah, she's a piece of work

she's a little crazy but over the past 17 years i've gotten used to her. Here's a good example of what she's like ok? She's my hubby's sister. My brother in law, the one who is married to my sister is Iranian, he's been here since he was 15 and is now 40 and a US citizen. On the day of 9/11 this same sister in law calls me up and asks me if i knew where my brother in law was. So i ask her why and she says well he's iranian right? And i say...SO, and she says...and here's the money shot....Those people attacked us, thats what kind of people they are. I hung up and didn't talk to her for at least 2 months. She calls me up to say she's sorry, i tell her to call my brother in law and say she's sorry to him for being such a stupid intolerant ignorant bitch. She hung up on me that time. We have had little spats over the years and always make up because i know she's nuts, my husband always reminds of that...she's crazy.

[JHBowden]

26. Bush will kill the A-rabs

The husband of one of my mother's friends supports the Republicans because of this reason.

[csw77]

27. These are some quotes from a Parenting website

This was from a topic if you could say anything to Kerry and *:

To Kerry: If you win you'll have close to a hundred thousand dollars less to piss away for I'm moving my family and businesses to Mexico. And good luck keeping the rest of the taxpayers here as you try to reform this country to a socialism.

To Bush: Thank you for being such an amazing leader at such a hard time. Remember it is not your fault that there are so many lazy americans.

:puke:

[HuckleB]

36. What's truly amazing...

is that someone of such limited intellect can make that kind of money. How does this person even keep a job?

[against all enemies]

31. I have one too.

I asked her to pick a grandson she would like to die for Bush in Iraq. She didn't pick one.

[knitter4democracy]

32. Yep, me too.

My in-laws are so Republican they get the party's catalog (seriously--there really is one in which you can buy almost anything with the elephant logo on it, even babywear). They won't talk to us at all about politics since we told them we loved Dr. Dean and were working for his campaign.

But--my MIL is on Cobra because my FIL lost his full-time job (still has the part-time job without benefits). She has had cancer and a rare autoimmune disease caused by the radiation for her cancer in the last year, so she's never going to get on any other insurance. So, I'm working on her to believe in a national health care plan. She's getting more and more upset with the situation, and when I tell her what Bush has done to keep her from insurance, she does get really quiet and looks angry.

Hopefully, they'll decide not to vote as well.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. I just had an idea. Tell her this:

"I know people don't like to admit being wrong. That's OK, Ma, the vote is secret. You can vote for Kerry, or spoil your ballot if you prefer, and still tell everyone you voted for Bush. This way it won't look like capitulation."

[HuckleB]

35. Next time...

remind them that torture led to no new information, and that any good intelligence officer will tell you that torture never leads to good information, though it often leads to bad information.

In other words, torture serves a negative purpose when it comes to getting information. So, not only does it appear that we are doing it out of spite, but we're also spiting ourselves.

For more on how folks get to be this thoughtless, check out:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1963222

[supercrash]

43. Can't do that.

Or already did that....When asked WHY she didn't like Kerry she just repeated the same sentence...."I just don't like him" (shaking her head with unapproval)

I said..."Well that sounds like reason enough to vote for Bush" (rolling my eyes)

Her brain was siezed by the church many years ago....and with the media's recent mass mind rape...she doesn't stand a chance, she is already 95% republican zombie

So very typical

[CrispyQ]

37. My mothers says she hates the Muslim religion . . .

I asked her why? (Granted, I don't know much about it, but then I don't know much about ANY religion.) She said because they are killing us. I asked how that is different from them hating Christianity since we kill them. She said that's different because we don't torture our people. I asked if she's been in a US prison recently. Suddenly she changes the subject.

They are absolutely unreasonable & irrational. You can't debate with them because their minds are small, closed & fearful.

[rhino47]

40. My brother in law is like that

He comes up with that kerry has factories overseas.So I replied that at least his wife didnt kill anyone.
He was shocked.Though he actually heard that pickles had a car accident surprisingly.I then paused and asked him"Is this what this election is about? The first ladies?" He shut up for 10 minutes.
He then went on about Kerry /Fonda and all other kinda of bullshit.He brought up religion.Big mistake.We are both catholic.I told him that he does not go to my church.My church taught me to care for the poor,elderly ,the defenseless.He shut up after telling me to go move to france and hasnt brought up politics again to me.
Most repigs are bullies.They shoot off at the mouth.First time you fire back they get ugly then stomp away.Truth to them is like the wooden stake to a vampire.

[AngryAmish]

39. Why do you talk to her?

Have nothing to do with her. I know it may make some waves at home, but everyone will respect you for your stand.

[DaveSZ]

42. Tell them Rumsfeld authorized torture of children

If they aren't moved by that, then they probably don't have a soul.

[gauguin57]

44. We should start a club.

How many of these threads have you seen recently? EVERYONE seems to have a right-wing in-law who just won't freaking listen. who has lost his/her reason. who considers us anti-American for criticizing Bushie in "wartime"! Let's get T-shirts made: "Proud Member of the 'My Right-Wing In-Law has Lost His/Her Mind' Club!"

I have a brother-in-law like that. I've realized I can't reason with him. He's under the sway of Fox News and Mister O'Lielly. I'm not going to change his mind, and things just get tense and nasty when we talk politics. (We started a screaming match about F-9/11 (which he hasn't seen but has a long-winded opinion about, of course) the other day, and I just stopped in mid-sentence, waved my hand dismissively, and moved on to "so, how's your job going?"

I don't bother anymore. I love him and my sister and their kids, and so I just don't start.... I'll argue with others, but sometimes one must hold one's tongue for the sake of family peace. And for the sake of MY BLOOD PRESSURE when visiting my family.

[mermaid]

47. I Got A Sister In Law Like That...

Worst part is...my brother used to be cool...and a Democrat...until he married HER.
We totally do not speak. It has been five years (last time we spoke was at my father's funeral) and even then, she had nothing but words of scorn for me...(she's a whacked-out born-again "Christian" Southern Baptist redneck yahoo...and I am a transsexual.) So, even with her FULL KNOWLDGE of her husband's sexual abuse of me for FIVE YEARS while we were young adolescents...she considers ME the pervert and the freak, and won't let me within a ten-mile radius of my niece and nephew...also whom I have not seen nor heard from in five years.

Meanwhile, she is raising two good little bigots, just like Mommy and Daddy...she constantly fills their heads with hate and poison about people like me, and how evil and perverted I supposedly am...even though I have not had sexual relations with ANYONE since Clinton's first term in office, nor do I even DESIRE any relations of that sort with ANYONE. And yet, I'm the pervert. Go figure!

Meanwhile, my mother...also a born-again Christian, is a Democrat, and fully supports me as her daughter...and she never did before her conversion to Christianity. As a result, my brother treats her horribly, and withholds the kids from visiting her or even talking to her hardly ever.

I don't get it...it is just disgusting the way these people treat me...and my mother! Where do they get off treating Mom that way? I could care less if they continue their bullshit treatment of me, I don't like them, anyway. Quite frankly, having them out of my lives is the best thing that ever happened to me, in terms of family relations. But I'd sure like a chance to get to know my niece and nephew, and let them decide FOR THEMSELVES if I'm really such a bad person. But no good...they are being raised to be good little bigots, just like Mommy and Daddy.

I'm just glad they finally moved out of Texas. Even this state was hardly big enough for the both of us. Now they live in Tennessee. And as far as I'm concerned, they can STAY THERE, too!

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

48. It totally sucks -- the division that the fanaticism and intolerance

causes. I've had similar problems in my family with the fundamentalism, and my husband's family too. It's like some fundamentalists truly join a cult and get a whole different personality. They are scared to death to think for themselves.

I hope your niece and nephew are safe with him, knowing his history with you. It doesn't sound like you are in any position to be able to help them, of course, because they would never let you or your mother close enough to find out what's going on.

It really, really bugs me that there is this big cult-like movement, full of hate, to support the sad, dysfunctional people that choose to join it and that the Republicans and media are trying to force-feed this sickness to the whole country! There must be millions of kids being fed this hate and getting abused, or else being rejected, if they choose to love themselves, instead of hate themselves. It's like you were strong enough to choose love, but your brother was too weak and chose to cling to hate.

[Straight Shooter]

49. Your brother needs some serious psychotherapy

Seems to me the guilt is literally warping his sense of reality. Things like that eat a person inside out. The day will come when his deeds will return full circle. It won't be pretty. I doubt if he and/or his wife will have the courage to deal with it.

As the saying goes, "Everything that goes around, comes around."

Best of luck to you, mermaid. What an awful burden to bear.

[neebob]

51. Your brother used to be cool?!

When was that, exactly?

I haven't spoken to my brother much in the last five years, either - only at my dad's funeral - because of how he treated me after I got into an abusive relationship with a psychopath, and it has a lot to do with something his obsessive-compulsive wife said ... or at least that was what got me thinking about my brother's behavior. Much as I dislike my sister-in-law, though, I'm not inclined to lay the blame with her. Someone apparently failed to counter the comment she made that her son repeated to mine. And we're not talking about anything on the scale of sexual abuse.

Your brother not only failed to counter his wife's comments, but he abused you if I'm reading correctly.

[mermaid]

52. For About Five Years Between The Time

the abuse stopped, and before he married her (my sister in law). That is when he was cool.

He was very popular in school...and this paved the way for me, making my life in high school a bit easier than it otherwise would have been.

You also need to know that, for ten years, I repressed memory of the abuse he gave to me. It came out in pschotherapy in my mid-20's, and that was when I confronted him with it...after it had come out in my psychotherapy. And he owned up to it at that point.

But it explained a hell of a lot, when it did come out. It explained why I was largely revolted by the idea of sexual relations...with ANYONE. I still have that to this day. There have been a total of three "willing" sexual encounters in my entire life. And since, in all three cases, I was drunk off my ass, I wonder how willing even those were!

[neebob]

54. How awful for you

I wish you well. I sometimes wonder what went on in my family that I don't remember, especially since my brother's child by his first wife molested a younger one by his second wife. If the first wife wasn't a total sociopath, I'd really wonder. Anyway, I struggle with the intensity of what I feel compared to the severity of what actually happened.

By the way, I haven't had sex since Clinton's first term, either. :)

[mermaid]

56. Yeah, Well...

thanks for the well wishes. What I could REALLY use is a man for companionship that doesn't care about having sex, good kuck, right?? Because the idea of sex still revolts me.

what I know intellectually is one thing. I was abused, I was not complicit in it, or a willing partner in it. I did nothing wrong. I did not deserve it. Intellectually, I know all of this.

But, deep down where my emotions live...I still get revolted at the idea of ever letting ANYONE no matter what gender...that close to me ever again!

What I know in my head is one thing. What I know in my gut is something entirely different. Call me Humpty-dumpty. I think I have been so emotinally scarred by this that I will never be able to be put back together again. meaning I'm likely condemned to being single my entire life, too.

Because I can't find a man who doesn't want nothin but sex sex sex all the time, and I just can't do it. Not even for a man I would love, I just can't do it. I get sick even thinking about it.

[neebob]

57. I hope you have someone to talk to

whether it's a therapist or a close friend. It takes a long time to get comfortable being single, or it did me - without the added challenges of sexual abuse and gender identity issues. I don't pretend to know what that's like, but I do know the grass isn't always greener. Some of us just have to decide our lives are going to be about something else and learn to be happy without partners.

I hope you find someone or, if you don't, that you eventually get to where you don't view being single for life as condemnation. It doesn't have to be about pairing off. Society sets people up with unrealistic expectations, and then people mess them up with shitty behavior.

Oh, and there lots are men who don't want sex. I was married to one. At the time, during the eighties, I thought I was the only woman in the world with this problem. I've since learned it's very common. But I don't recommend it. :)

[mermaid]

66. Thanks

Well, I don't have a job, currently, though I start one in mid-August...so I have no health insurance, or money for a therapist, so that's out. I have very few close freinds, because I am rather reticent about making close friends. I really kinda do work hard at keeping people at arm's length! Call it my defense mechanism against insecurity. Even though I understand it on an intellectual level, overcoming this on an emotional level is quite different.

And I do want to make clear that my gender identity issues were there long before the abuse...they did not CAUSE the condition. In fact, my brother blackmailed me by threeatening to reveal this to school friends (and enemies) as well as my parents, if I did not comply with his abuse of me. At the time, it seemed the lesser of two evils to just go along with my brother's demands...it was better than getting my ass kicked every day after school! My brother knew of my gender identity issues, and used them for his own sick ends.

And I'm quite happy without a partner, though it would be nice to HAVE a partner, someone to share with, who cared for me...and to talk to. For now, my only companion is my adorable black Lab/German Shepherd mix dog, named Lyric. And she gives me emotional support and companionship. It would be nice to have someone with whom I could have a "human" conversation with...but, again, I'm not complaining, Lyric gives me what I need. It's nice to come home after a hard day, and know that there is at least one creature who thinks I am the greatest! And shows it, too!

And I don't mean for anyone to get the impression that I view "single for life" as a condemnation. It's not, really. some of us are just meant for other things, obviously I am one of them, and so, I am okay with this. But it is common to wish for things that cannot, or will not be. At least, being single for life keeps me from being hurt and betrayed. I think I have made it pretty clear that I have severe trust issues, I do not give my trust easily...and my trust in anyone can be ruined forever by a single misstep.

One of my closest friends, who still lives in Kentucky, is now finally getting married next year, at the age of 42. I thought he'd never get married off, so I guess there is still hope in that regard. Of course, we were too close to have anything other than a platonic relationship...any romatic involvement woulda screwed up our friendship. I'm sure some of you can relate to what I mean here. And, of course, both of us knew we could never be romatically involved...we were too close for that. but it does hurt, sometimes, to always be the bridesmaid, and never the bride. In this case, however, I will be a "groomsperson." I will be standing up at this friend's wedding in February, on his side...along with his "Best Person" who also is a female. This is sorta weird, actually, since the bride is having two males and a female on her side...and the groom is having two females and a male on his side...lol!

But this guy was, to me, kinda the brother I never had. Which is why romantic involvement was never possible for us.

And, I really wish I could find a "no-sex man," or at least one who was willing to be VERY PATIENT...and understanding...until I was ready...and not pressure me into those kinds of relations. I never seem to find guys like that, though.

And yes, you're right, society does set people up for unrealistic expectations. And keeps hammering the expectations over and over, and you wind up feeling guilty, feeling like shit...feeling like you somehow do not measure up...when you fail to meet these expectations.

I'm at the point now where I figure...if it happens, fine...and if not, that's okay, too. but some human companionship would be nice. Lacking that, there is my dog...who is, in my estimation, one of few who deserve my unswerving trust and love in this harsh, bitter, cold, unfriendly world full of abusers,betrayers, and back-stabbers.

Cynical? You bet. But my life experiences have made me so.

[TeacherCreature]

59. I am so sorry

I am sorry that they are acting this way. But you are blessed to have a loving mother who accepts you for who you are.

[knitter4democracy]

67. Some hope

I went to a conservative Evangelical college, and there were many students there who had been raised to be good little bigots. I do have to say that, while many never questioned what they'd been raised with, many did and walked away. Your niece and nephew might walk away from all of that, just as my husband and I did and every friend we had at college, and they might try to contact you when they're older. There is hope that they will hear the real message of the gospel and then have a hard time swallowing the crap they're being fed.

I'm so very sorry for everything you have gone through. You really are a survivor, but that doesn't make it any easier, does it? I've had to turn my back on abusers (dad and stepmom), and hasn't been easy. Blessings.

[spooky3]

71. I'm sorry for the pain you've endured. I'll bet your niece and nephew

will one day rebel and begin to think for themselves. You will then be able to forge a good relationship with them. Don't give up!

[mermaid]

73. I'm Not Giving Up

Unknown to my brother, I have been buying US Savings Bonds every year, for their birthdays. I am holding these in trust for them. When they reach age 18, they will be given these bonds. Along with a note, apologizing for my absence from their lives, and explaining that this is 18 years of missed birthday presents their parents would not have allowed me to give.
They will also be invited to make contact. If they choose to, great. If not, the bonds are still theirs...to do with as they wish. This is all I can do. Because my brother will allow no contact. I therefore have to wait until they are adults, to present them with a choice.
As long as those kids are minors, their father CAN control with whom they have contact. And I have to respect their father's wishes.

BUT, they will be given a chance, after having been raised to be good little bigots...to decide for themselves. And they will never get from me what happened between their father and me, tempting though it may be, I will not actively participate in poisoning their minds against their father...that would make me no better than my brother.

[knitter4democracy]

75. That's a great idea

What a loving, wonderful idea. Blessings to you.

[mermaid]

77. Thanks

Again, I had to think of something I could do, and this was all I could think of.
At any rate, they shall have a small little college fund, or whatever else they may choose to use the money for. Theirs with no strings attached. And they will be invited, then, to make an adult decision for themselves,whether or not they want me to be a part of their lives. Granted, they will be given the decision after having been raised to be good little bigots, but I'm hoping they will have learned enough critical thinking skills and human compassion to overcome their upbringing.
I've no desire to turn them against their father. In fact, it would be nice if THEY were able to turn their father away from his hateful, bigoted ways.
Though a small, mean part of me would love nothing more than to spit on my brother and slam the door in his face...I will resist that urge, if he comes to me, truly contrite, and truly sorry for what he has done to me in my life. I'm at least willing to hear him out.

But the ball is in his court. I reached out at my father's funeral, and he flatly rejected it. I made my effort, now, I do as it says in the Bible...I shake the dust off my sandals and move on. But if he comes to me, I shall hear him out, and not turn him away unheard.

But, as I made the effort, and was thoroughly rebuffed...it is now HIS turn to make the effort.

[faithnotgreed]

46. its is largely fear and do not question mode. my mother was born in 1930s

that generation had a great deal of fear and were taught in the schools and the churches and in the homes that authority (country being the ultimate) was always always right and you DO NOT QUESTION. fear of parents authority (what they said went), fear for survival, not only the depression but of course ww2 (which was the time they were deeply taught that the country was the most moral and the strongest and was fighting a righteous war that they could be proud of since they were the liberators etc) then comes the korean conflict and cold war and hiding under your desks and then vietnam. these are not people who can understand at all that this was being protested
you just dont do that.

and this is the mindset that is passed down to many others.

these are people who at least felt like they had honorable leaders (which we absolutely dont have now but they dont want to see that) and also had blind trust as they were taught to have.

my mother, like many, dont think for themselves, are full of worry, and dont want to know what the truth is because, at least for her, its far too painful. i know that from many other aspects of her

she and i do not talk politics. but we talk all the time, just not about that. a month ago i slipped in that i was seeing f 9/11 (she did say ewww when i mentioned mm, even though she had enjoyed watching some of his "awful truth" videos with me a couple yrs ago which i reminded her about)
and somewhat before that i mentioned the evil that is in our government. then this week i happened to email that i had gotten up early one day and found that john edwards had been chosen. a friend of mind had now felt hope.
there was no conversation really about any of these things. a couple days later she wrote me a nice email that asked if we could not talk about politics (shes coming to visit me in a couple weeks). she said that Jesus didnt speak about politics except maybe ordering the money changers out of the temple.
we both love God verymuch so i didnt take this as inappropriate for her to say but i made sure to respond to it in an equally kind way but firm that i felt God most definitely would speak out about greed and evil and its intent to stamp out good in the world etc)
many people just dont want to know whats going on so they listen to people who they think represent their values, their patriotism and then all the other filth doesnt get filtered out for them

there are so many people who are depressed or anxious or sick in some way so i try to be understanding but i know her environment feeds the "understated" duality of what some Christians say they believe and what these same people actually say and do.
shes a sweet woman and im so thankful that she is at least open when we do talk about the edges of these topics, but for her she just doesnt want to allow the truth in because it would cause her too much pain and despair to hear what is actually going on and what * actually is doing. this is not how she was taught to feel about things

[neebob]

50. My parents were born in 1936

Only my mom is still living. The thing about her is she used to be a Democrat, so while I'm always gratified to hear it's a generational thing, I still tend to blame the Mormon church and, above all, the controlling, emotionally and verbally abusive man who dragged us all into it: my dad.

I wish I could be as magnanimous toward my mom's belief system as you are toward your mom's. I somehow, perhaps miraculously, managed to develop the ability to think for myself. What's my mom's excuse - spending an extra 22 years with King Boss Man? Perhaps I should give her a break, since the last 5 or 6 of those 22 years were spent essentially trapped in the house with his severely disabled but just as controlling as ever (and I would say more than ever) highness and the Limbaugh Letter. She was on different footing than I was with the Supreme Commander, so naturally she wouldn't feel as oppressed as I did.

It wasn't all that long ago - only three or four years - that I realized what my dad did to my mind and how he influenced my adult life. Since he died, I've discovered all these issues I didn't know I had with my mom. One day I realized it was she who was always telling me I shouldn't feel this way or that way and causing me to assume I'm wrong and bad and in need of punishment. My dad just shouted his head off because I didn't agree with him or do what he wanted. My mom is the one who gave me the complex. She was complicit in the abuse, and ironically she's the one who first suggested it by way of defending my dad.

So, having processed that, lately I've been noticing all the things my parents failed to teach me and just how unthinking they both were and are. I can barely stand to talk to my mom anymore because her beliefs flow into everything. Really, only the weather and the animals we both love are safe subjects. Everything else seems to have some obscure connection to politics or religion or my dad issues. I suspect she steers the conversation in the direction of the dad issues because she wants me to take half the responsibility for my relationship with him. She just can't stand that I refuse to to do that.

If the topic is anything other than animals or the weather, I can't say much more than "uh-huh" because Mom can't resist the urge to tell me I'm bad and wrong when I disagree with her - which is about every ten seconds. She's disrespectful of everyone and everything that doesn't fit in her narrow little world.

It would be one thing if she could disagree respectfully, but she does it in the most offensive way. In defending the Vietnam war, for example, she told me I wasn't aware during that time. I'd better not challenge her on World War II, either, because she was there. Never mind she was the same age as I was during Vietnam.

Generational and parental issues aside, it's just impossible to have an intelligent discussion with someone who assumes and feels comfortable telling you your mind has been poisoned by people you've only ever mentioned in passing - like, say, Michael Moore or Al Franken - but who hangs on every word of the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Bill O'Reilly and only ever watches Fox News because it's fair and balanced. Someone who sincerely and passionately believes George W. Bush is a good person because she watches him on TV and fancies herself a good judge of character. Someone who thinks it's OK to blow people in other countries to kingdom come and mistreat your fellow Americans who don't share your background and beliefs.

I don't associate with people who think that way and aren't related to me.

[faithnotgreed]

60. yes. i feel for you and am so sorry. that must be very painful.

there is clearly a tremendous amount going on for both of you.

its very difficult these relationships esp with parents... it must be quite difficult but you sound much more alert and mature considering what you have been through.

i always believe in trying but i know its incredibly difficult with those who are so closed and in so much pain that they put it on everyone else just to get rid of it somehow (at least thats what i think)
though that doesnt make it any easier....

take care of yourself. that you have some things in common is important to recognize (esp love of animals - me and my mom too!).

you clearly are giving it quite a go! would that everyone could try as you are....

[mzmolly]

53. Here is mine. "Gays endanger families because there is only one man

for every women." Mzmolly's Mother In Law. Yes, you heard me. This is what she believes. :eyes:

This is the new justification for voting for the failure in the OO.

I guess wars are good for families though. :puke:

[rman]

72. low wages are good for families to: no parents at home. n/t

-

[sherrem]

55. right wing aunt

She's a piece of work I tell ya. I love her to death. She's the closest thing I've had to a mother (including the one I actually have). Her only flaw is being a republican.

We talk politics quite often, as she can hardly wait to repeat to me the latest thing that's come off Fox news. All she can really do is insult, and mind you, she's a very intelligent woman. Her justification for the war how now become "just because". Earlier it was, "we DID find WMD" (to which I said, since you're privy to that kind of information when the rest of the world isn't, please send me the proof}. Oh and the popular "Saddam was a bad man" justification. Well really, do ya think? Thank goodness you filled me in on that, because I had no clue.

I told her last week I was giving her an opportunity to enlighten me. I said, you tell me WHY Bush is a good president, what has Bush done for me...and do not mention the names Kerry or Clinton. Her ONE AND ONLY reason was "Bush cut taxes". Well that works for her, she's loaded. What about my family? My husband had been laid off the last six months--they don't take taxes out of an unemployment check! When finally called back to work, my husband was informed he'd be working 3 months this year, then laid off AGAIN in September. He was luckily able to get another job at a $25,000 a year paycut. During his lay off, our family of 6 had no health care because "we MADE too much money" to get public assitance. Never mind we weren't MAKING any money, we had MADE too much. Where was Bush for that?

The thing is, you can shove cold hard facts down these people's throats (which I have done) and nothing comes of it. When she jokingly says "you must have been dropped on your head as a child" in order to be a democrat...I just say "no, I am able to think outside the box, and question what information I am fed".

Most republicans are fine in their little bubble, doing what they're told, passing the buck of blame to someone else. And to me, thats just find, I wouldn't want someone that close minded on my side of the fence anyway.

[drthais]

58. you forgot to ask

WHO WOULD JESUS TORTURE???? HUH?

[Must_B_Free]

61. "We didn't kill any innocent children, they were all..."

"suicide bombers"

[DaveSZ]

62. I notice too

The RWers in my family are all Fundies.

[rockymountaindem]

63. I saw F9/11 with a right-wing friend yesterday.

When I asked her what she thought, she said "typical Michael Moore".

It just so happens that her previous exposure to Moore was about 25% of Bowling for Columbine before she turned it off. I wonder how she knew what was typical then.

Of course this sort of thing happens to me almost every day, this is just the fresh memory.

[rockymountaindem]

64. Accidental dupe.

[Renew Deal]

65. I had a very similar argument the other day.

Everything from torture down and I handled it the same way.

[ellie]

68. Yes, my husband's brother, Ray, is

a union worker, told my husband that he isn't going to vote for Kerry because Edwards is a lawyer! Ray's father-in-law is a right wing wacko that has been talking to him about the election. When my husband asked him if he saw F 9/11 yet, Ray scoffed. Being a huge Dale Jr. fan, my husband then asked Ray if he knew that Dale Jr. encouraged his crew to go see the film. Ray said, No, but was intrigued. I will buy him a copy of the DVD when it comes out just so he can see it, I swear I will. I don't get it, why people are willing to vote against their best interests.

My sister has a friend who owns a Hummer. When my sister asked her if she saw F9/11, her friend said, No that's just propaganda! This person listens to AM talk radio all the time. My sister was describing the horror of Iraq and her friend said, get this, "It's a volunteer Army. Those people don't have to be there." How the hell can you argue with that idiocy?

[mermaid]

76. They Don't Have To Be There??

Ask your sister about the 5,600 people who have served their entire military commitment, yet are being recalled against their will, to be sent to Iraq...being forced to serve in the military, in a combat zone, beyond the fulfillment of what they signed up for!
Volunteer my ass!

[spooky3]

70. With this failure to reason, I think I'd say, "but isn't Edwards a nice

guy? Did you see him with his little daughter and son? Aren't they adorable?"

None of this should matter to voters, but with people like your mother-in-law, I think it does.

If she responds with actual reasons why she doesn't like them (policy-related), then you can have a conversation.

[Foehammer]

79. Repug coworker during lunch..

...Was telling me that Kerry was the AWOL one and Bush served on an Aircraft Carrier during Vietnam.
I was shocked so bad my Pepsi dam near came out my nose.
I just said ... Wow you are pretty dumb.