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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:16 AM
Original message
I am re-registering to vote as a Democrat
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 12:29 AM by Jack Rabbit
EDITED for typing

As some of you know, I have just moved to another town in California. As most of you know, I have been a registered Green since 1999 and voted for Ralph Nader in a state that was safe for Gore in 2000.

I will take this opportunity to re-register to vote as a Democrat. I was a registered Democrat from 1972 until 1999. This will be to support and vote for the Democratic candidate of my choice in the California primary this spring. While Mr. Kucinich appeals to me ideologically more than the other candidates, I lean to Dean. Dean seems to be a more pragmatic person. His opposition to the war was based on a considered and informed opinion, not on abstract ideological principle. He arrived at the right conclusion for the right reasons.

I am disenchanted with the Green Party for what appears to be its decision to run a candidate in 2004. This is the wrong approach. The rule of the Bush junta presents the nation with an emergency similar to the one France faced in the early forties. At that time, the French Left made an alliance with the politically conservative General de Gualle to rid their nation of Nazi occupation. The American Left must now make an alliance with liberals, centrists and even willing sober conservatives to rid our nation of this junta that came to power by subverting our system of free elections, gives the keys to the national treasury to cronies, abrogates contsitutionally guaranteed civil liberties, casts international agreements asunder and goes to war unnecessarily while lying about the real reasons for doing so. The Bush administration is the most crooked and oppressive in American history. Bush has transformed America into a banana republic. We must resolve to depose Bush, restore democracy and make it stroinger than ever.

However, do not expect me to join in the Green bashing in which some wallow. I still believe in much of the Green Party's program. Moreover, I remain at heart a democrat -- with a small d -- which means that I believe in a state where citizenship is universal, equal and inalienable.

Also, I am not blindly embracing any aspect of the Democratic Pary. The Democratic Leadership Council remains in my view a hostile force contrary to the legacy of FDR and true democracy, expounding programs that seem more like Republicanism devoid of the Christian Coalition. However, it would appear that the DLC's power is waning. They no longer have the power to read progressives out of the party.

The Democratic Party needs to be re-invigorated. Its energy has been sapped by a doctrinaire centrism that is a grotesque parody of the doctrinaire liberalism the DLC sought to balance. Hopefully, the Democratic Party will now look for new leadership that will take on the tyranny of the Bush junta rather than placating it.

To this end, I would like to add my voice to those Democrats calling for Terry McAuliffe to step down. His tepid program brought disaster to Democratic hopes in 2002 and only open defiance of his leadership may have averted disaster in the California recall election. The Democrats need to present an alternative to Bush that is reasonable and measured -- two things Bush is not -- and not be afraid to boldly assert their differences with tyranny.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Welcome Home, JR.
Lotsa good things in your post. I especially liked the analogy to Vichy era French resistance.
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JasonBerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great Post, J.R.
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 12:28 AM by JasonBerry
It's clear you are sticking to your principles, but are prepared to electorally work within the party that has a chance to win and make progress (albeit slower) than you would like. You made a lot of sense and it's also clear you gave it a lot of thought and are comfortable with your decision. That's great, Jack Rabbit, excellent post!
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Great speech!
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 12:29 AM by liberalmuse
I have read the Green platform and agree with just about everything in it. I'm also disenchanted with the Democratic party (not the people, the 'representatives'). I almost broke my straight ticket streak and voted for a local Green in the last election, but it was too close, so I couldn't do it. The Dem Congressman here would be considered Republican in any normal state, but I live in Utah, where the Republicans are almost as bad as the Texas 'pubs in their school yard bullying of the Dem reps. The best I can hope for is to help get Dean to the primaries (or move). They let 'pubs vote in our primaries here, which is bullshit, but without the 'pubs being able to do this, we wouldn't get a primary, there's so few of us here. I'm really glad more and more Greens are feeling this way. Another term of Bush is incomprehensible.

On edit: I hope you understood that blather. I need to go to bed. Goodnight all!
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. Great Post, Mr. Rabbit!
!!

Welcome home!

Out of sheer curiosity, what are your thoughts on General Clark? :-)

DTH
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. I forgot about that!
We don't have open primaries in California, do we? I should know this, but I was just a Dem for so long, I never had to think about it.

I guess I need to reregister as a Dem to get to vote for Dean... then switch back to Green if I want to keep that status later?

Aarrgghh! :crazy:
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yo, silverweb:
you're 'another Green for Dean' - what am I missing?

Please enlighten me - thanks!
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ryharrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. I don't know, what are you missing?
I'm another green for Dean too. I believe he (she?) mentioned it just to show how Dean is pulling in support from all over, including Greens and Repubs.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. *lol*
I'm a "she" -- and thanks for the backup. :D
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
56. mistake - pls disregard n/t
Edited on Fri Aug-22-03 07:00 AM by cherryperry
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Sorry for the delay...
I missed your post earlier.

Dean is a real friend of environmental causes. Check his website for his accomplishments in acquiring protected, public lands in Vermont and always setting aside the first chunk of the annual budget for environmental purposes.

I switched from Dem to Green a year or so ago because I was upset with the way the Dems wimped out after the coup of 2000, rolled over and played dead every time the BFEE sneezed at them.

But I think I'm coming back... no less green at heart, but because we need to unite to defeat the GOP machine. (Please see post #20 below.)

Nicetameetcha, by the way. :hi:
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
57. no apologies necessary, silverweb
Yes, I looked up Dean's stands on the issues and do agree with his friendship to environmental causes.

I changed to Green in 1996 and voted Green right after the backward turn I perceived in 1992, gave him the 4 years and he slid through some very noxious edicts near the end of his 1st term. So, I said to myself, "Myself, I will not vote for Clinton-Gore again!" I voted Green in 1996 as well as 2000! However, with what happened over the past some 20 months, I have been scared into re-registering as a dem. I'll have to play it by ear as to whether I will stay after the general election ...

Nicetameetcha as well. :hi:
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'll be doing the same myself
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 12:38 AM by NightTrain
By 1996, I was so disgusted with the rightward turn the Democratic Party had taken under Bill Clinton and the DLC, I flipped the party off, registered Green, and voted for Nader. By 2000, I was more pissed off than ever at the Democrats and once again voted Green.

Sidebar comment: If you're looking for me to apologize for my vote, you're gonna be waiting a long, long time, baby! I didn't abandon the Democratic Party--it abandoned me! We now return to our regularly scheduled posting, already in progress:

This time, however, with some genuinely decent candidates competing for the Democratic nomination, I'm ready to return to the fold, mainly because I want to vote in the primary.

I'm torn between Kucinich and Dean. They both strike me as brilliant, passionate men with big hearts. Having to decide between them will be a tough choice for me. But it's the kind of choice I love to make. I'd much rather vote for the better of two decent candidates than the lesser of two evils!

So I'm ready to call myself a Democrat again. I only hope the party doesn't shove it back up my middle-class tuchus!
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Well, look at NightTrain!
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 12:44 AM by cherryperry
Both you and Jack Rabbit are going with Dean. Would either or both of you please let me know why you prefer him? I'm not happy with his fiscal conservatism ...

Thanks!
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. thanks, JackRabbit....we need every single person like YOU to
throw out the criminals in the White House...you'll be glad when it happens too...let's make everyone PROUD of AMERICA once again....GO JackRabbit.....
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. California Green Party actions are enough to disenfranshise me
permanently.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Please update me.
I haven't been paying close attention to the Greens, actually, since I enlisted with Dean's campaign.

What did the CA Greens to to lose you?
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Well
I've been really dissapointed with them during this whole recall thing. Go to their website and they say nothing about whether they support the recall or are against it, nothing about the fact that it's a hijacking of democracy and a right wing coup. Instead they choose to take advantage of Darrell Issa's 2 million dollars and run Camejo again. This proves to me that they are just like any other party, despite their high-and-mighty rhetoric.

That and them talking about running a candidate against Boxer really irritated me.

I've never been a Green, but I've always respected them. I've worked and campaigned with Greens on local activist issues. But the California Green Party has been dissapointing.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Ah, thank you...
I understand and agree with you completely on this, but hadn't updated myself until now.

I'm a huge fan of Senator Boxer's, too. She's been wonderful as an advocate and defender of environmental causes, and the Greens should be supporting her, not running against her!

I registered as a Green to make a statement, not withdraw my support for worthy Democratic candidates. It looks like maybe it's time to permanently switch back and take my stand within the Democratic party once again.

If we're going to defeat the corporate/fascist/neocon movement known as today's GOP, it's time for strength through unity - not more divisiveness.

:bounce:
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. me, too!
I have voted and been registered as Green Party since 1996!

Yesterday, I registered as a Democrat again!

The DLC is a great Republican organization, IMO!

I also informed the Green Party of CA re their decision to run in 2004; especially their thoughts of running Cynthia McKinney (ugh)!

Also agree Terry McAuliffe needs to go -- he is no friend to the 'real' Democratic party.

While I agree that Kucinich is most to my liking, I do believe I am supporting Kerry (at this time anyway). This is a tough one ...

What area of CA do you now live in? I'm in San Luis Obispo after living in San Francisco for 18 years ... culture shock!

:thumbsup: :kick: :hi:
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. No real Green would support Kerry.
He so far to the right of Clinton.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. ralph nader likes john kerry
and kerry is to the left of clinton.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
58. No kidding!
So, are you a Green supporting Kerry?
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
84. The Support of Nader and top Green party members
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
63. Kerry is to the left of bush! You can't always get everything you want ..
all at one time and immediately.

We are currently in a national disaster and crisis because of the bush administration. They have looted the national treasury and bankrupted the nation, to pay off their campaign contributors. They have started two wars, which threaten to become Viet Nams. They have stolen our civil liberties.

Just like Novak once accused Begalla on Crossfire of being willing to do, right now, I would vote for a "sick pig" if it was the Democratic candidate.

Maybe in the future it will be possible for a far-left candidate to win, but we have to start somewhere and move the voting public to the left. They aren't there right now.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. You are correct, meti57b and
I also completely agree with your signature line!

:kick: :hi:
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. don't know how I managed to dupe previous one, but I did! n/t
Edited on Fri Aug-22-03 01:36 PM by cherryperry




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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thank You Jack Rabbit!
"I am disenchanted with the Green Party for what appears to be its decision to run a candidate in 2004. This is the wrong approach. The rule of the Bush junta presents the nation with an emergency"

My sentiments exactly. I am a Democrat -- with a capital D, and while I appreciate the sincere and heartfelt motivations of those who identify themselves with the Green Party, it scares the holy Jebus out of me that some of these people are willing to splinter the available votes in order to make a political statement, and thereby fuel the forward motion of this national emergency. It has to be stopped NOW. I don't want to invite a debate so I'll leave it at that.

Welcome back.:hi:
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for a great post!
It's people like you that'll make the democrats unbeatable in 2004. I agree there are lots of things to change, but it's encouraging to see posts like this. We can only be stronger when we get the energy and ideas of the Greens/Independents working to change things within.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. Wonderful
I hope you will support Kucinich. There are many here who love him and greenies. No flaming here.
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Aaron Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'll probably change mine too
when it gets around to primary time if Oregon will make a difference I'll switch mine if it's a close race.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hey JackRabbit , I did the same thing in April
:hi:
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ErasureAcer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. Kucinich is the only reason I'll be registered in as a Dem
He has the right issues on my two main concerns...cutting the pentagon and ending capital punishment.

I dunno, after watching Bowling for Columbine again last night on DVD(my 3rd viewing)...I'd really like to see Bush go. But in all reality...I don't think I can vote for someone who supports keeping American Pentagon spending where it is at now(more than the rest of the world combined).

On the bright side of things, if Bush were re-elected...I'd put 10/9 odds that the guy is assasinated within a month of his presidency. Truly, I don't think Bush will win no matter what...his only tactics to win are cheating, as he showed in 2000.

I'm pretty damn sure I'd vote for the Green Candidate, or the Socialist candidate or the Libertarian candidate before Howard Dean or Dick Gephardt.

Really now, Bush will lose on his own merits. If you want a change for America: The ending of an empire on the world, justice(no death penalty), and a push towards resusable energy...I think the only candidate you can vote for is Kucinich.

If you like American Empire, leaving everyone blind by taking an eye for an eye, and nuclear waste being shipped across the nation for more years to come because we continue to use nuclear energy...well then yeah...vote for someone else than Kucinich.

If you want to leave the world to future generations in a better state than it is now...vote for Kucinich.

www.kucinich.us
Dare to Dream
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Thank you...
Kucinich is the obvious choice. I will also be registering as a Dem, was Independent. I am looking forward to voting in the Ohio primary.

And for those of you who think he is going to drop out easily. Then you obviously have learned nothing about the man.


I have a feeling we will see Dennis all the way at the end. On a shoestring budget, with a media paid to ignore him, but the voice of the people to guide him.


TWL
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
70. TWL, if by some chance,
Kucinich isn't the nominee, will you be able to bring yourself to simply vote Dem in order to throw the repigs out? ... hope so!
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
24. Beautifully thought out and articulated, Jack Rabbit...
You speak wisely and by virtue of your actions, offer an example for us all to follow.

Your ideas and pragmatic take on events are very much appreciated!

Thanks so much for this -- :toast:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
25. You said something very important but you missed your own point..
<<At that time, the French Left made an alliance with the politically conservative General de Gualle to rid their nation of Nazi occupation.

Calling General Clark.........
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
26. Yeah!
I hope more people will understand the dilemma we face. We really do need to work with all groups against Bush. And wouldn't it be a truly wonderful thing if in that process we actually started talking to each other and discovered we can solve problems together without the lies and deceipt caused by the Bushits in the first place. Or maybe that's just dreaming.
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. I've considered changing as well
But the derogatory and entitlement attitudes I get in this place remind me that I'm not a Dem.

Yes, of course I'm for Kucinich all the way.
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
28. Bravo!
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 06:24 AM by gully
I fully agree with you on Dean's pragmatism. That is an essential ingredient for me too.

BTW, it's good you don't let Kucinich supporters hi-jack the thread, they penetrate every forum with the Dennis is the only 'true' liberal/progressive/thinking persons president garb-age' but, we still love em' all don't we gang? :D Least I do!

I agree with you that WE need to unite! Which is why I say "ABB."

*Anyone But Hitler* hmmmm, I like it!

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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
85. You're kidding, right?
BTW, it's good you don't let Kucinich supporters hi-jack the thread, they penetrate every forum with the Dennis is the only 'true' liberal/progressive/thinking persons president garb-age'

:eyes:
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
29. I'm considering changing
my affiliation to Democratic (have been independent since I started voting)if only to vote against Lieberman in the primary. He is currently favored here in NY and I believe his nomination would be a disaster. Even though the primaries here are pretty much fixed for the politicians favorite, it would be worth it.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I don't care what the NY polls say,
when people get into the privacy of the voting booth, I very much doubt they will follow through and actually vote for Lieberman!

But this 2004 election is SO important that I really hope you do change your affiliation to Democratic!
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. I find it hard to believe the
primary voters here would pick Lieberman, but the structure of it in NY favors the big guys/girls pick. Don't worry, you've got me for 2004 regardless of the nominee. After our coup I pledged two election cycles of voting a straight Democratic ticket, although I've always overwhelmingly voted that way anyhow. The repigs are outta control and I truly hope 2004 puts em in their rightful place, the hurdles are enormous though in spite of the complete mess they have made of our Country. They own the media, have tons of $$$$$$, have a brainwashed citizenry, and are willing to lie, cheat, and kill to achieve their ends. I really do believe that if we can have a FAIR voting system in place that is tamperproof chimpy and his gang will be sent packing and hopefully to prison where they belong.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. that is the best name for them I've heard yet!
"repig" LOL

:toast:
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
30. Completely relate
exceptionally well said and intelligent.

One of my concerns is the Left will diffuse their numbers in the primaries allowing for a greater concentration to a less desirable candidate who will be a less appealing choice in the General. This is deadly serious - not a time for the luxury of a highly idealized but remotely electable candidate. Considering the hostility directed towards Greens after 2000 and knowing what we know now, why would anyone want to take any chances on a long-shot at this stage of the game? It's a damn crime. Kucinich doesn't have a chance, the deck stacked against him--why would anyone want to risk it all at such a cost? Such a terrible cost.
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pearl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thanks
We, who are horrified by the state of the Nation, know we must
join together to take back our country.
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. You guys need to stop imaginging some sort of
"average Joe American" who we need to appeal to. People are just hungry for leadership and answers...not for some type of political charachature with mass appeal. It's all so self-fullfilling...you all imagine what "wide appeal" means and you all try to guess who would appeal to the mysterious "normal people" out there...and in the end you serve up a watered-down candidate who stands for nothing and cannot win.

Until the day Dems start choosing candidates for what they stand for and make decisions for what they believe in, I simply can't trust you guys.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. I agree, chadm
Politicians must make compromise. Leaders must lead.

If Democrats believe in a principle, then they must live their lives that way. If they change to meet a situation, then they can change their own core beliefs.

I find it difficult to trust Democrats.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. To cadm and Terwillger:
I'm in complete agreement with youse and have voted Green in Clinton II as well as with Gore as the supposed Demo. However, 2004 really is different and so I will probably leave the party again after voting then. But, please, don't you see how important it is to get Cheney/Shrub and their den of thieves OUT? pretty please ...
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #52
65. what got them there in the first place?
Edited on Fri Aug-22-03 11:08 AM by Terwilliger
now, we react, like our country has reacted against Saddam, with shock and horror that someone like George Bush could come to power in this country, all the while knowing that the system that brought him to power is the same system you're begging me to participate in

I may vote in 2004. I may even vote for the lesser of two evils, but this is not the government I am happy with. I will become an independent after the October 7th election here in California.

OnEdit: elecion -> election
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. So will I, Terwilliger!
I understand how you feel, honestly I do, but I will bring myself to vote Dem just in the 10/7 CA election and in the 2004 general election because I'm :scared: :scared:, however, I will re-register once I've done my part to throw out the Halliburtons currently in the White House. I may have to gag while I vote Dem now; maybe even get a Margarita afterward, but I just can't let 2004 go by.

:hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #54
66. No we do not live in reasonable times
and we must fight unreasonable concepts

Concept number one to fight against: America is a democratic republic where we all have a say in how things are run

Concept number two: Democrats are fighting the good fight. This notion is painful, since they fight for the continuation of the same system that has brought us all this strife and polarization.

Concept three: You can make a difference with your vote. You cannot. In a local election with 200 people in a town, your vote carries much weight and much responsibility. In a national election...hundreds and thousands of votes are considered detritus and unimportant by both major parties. They fight for the prestige and the the right carry the money banner. They don't fight for you, and they never will.

We must have a revolution, where the primary motivator becomes the health and welfare of all people across the world. To do anything else guarantees decades (and perhaps centuries) of a grinding engine barely able to move forward. Will getting Bush out of office in 2004 change the world? No. I doubt it will change much of anything.

And, again, in 2008, when Jeb Bush wins the national election, you can spout off about how cherished your notion of America is.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. If that is really what comes of this,
I will be emigrating very soon afterward!

:loveya:
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #66
75. That also deserves a response
No, these are not reasonable times and the 2004 election is not politics as usual. The fight in 2004 is not to bring about a new American Golden Age; it is to stop America from going into an abyss. If Bush were just another conservative president with a pro-corprorate agenda, that would be different. If he were, the Left might be justified in trying to set its own agenda independent of teh Democratic Party. However, Bush is something else. He is a genuine threat to American democratic institutions.

Let's not delude ourselves that putting a Democrat in the White House in 2004 is going to solve all our problems. It won't. However, we will again be able to discuss our problems rationally.

Again, to make the analogy with the Nazi occupation of France, throwing the Nazis out did not bring about a utopian state. What it allowed was Frenchmen to determine their own destiny once again. France as again governed by Frenchmen, not Germans. As long as the Nazis occupied France, it was not possible or even meaningful for Frenchmen to discuss their differing views of how France was to be governed. It is easy to understand how the Communists aligned themselves with de Gaulle, who would have fit nicely into the Republican Party of his time had he been an American.

The Bush junta renders meaningless the differences the Left has in a two-party system. If he and his aides gain a greater grip on power than they already have, we will be without a voice. Bush will have his crooked colonial wars and not fear opposition, because Ashcroft will be reading the opposition's e-mail and sending them to prison on whatever trivial charges he can make stick. Failing that, he'll just send dissidents to prison without trial. We're already too close to that state of affairs for comfort.

What a Democratic victory would do is alleviate that unfortunate situation. Perhaps a Democratic president will see fit to continue to persue a free trade agenda contrary to the interests of working people around the world, but he won't suggest that Americans who dissent are terrorists. We can present our program without fear that someone at DOJ is scheming to strip each of us of his citizenship and have him disappear into Guantanamo.

This is about saving our democratic insitutions from obliteration. With them we can at least engage in a dialog with those who differ and try to persuade them that our way is better. Without those institutions, we have no voice at all. Under Bush, we will be marginalized and villified.

It may only be a small victory. However, if it is a voctory that assures open dialogue, then that will be sufficient. If I am wrong and Bush loses, we will be no worse off. However, if I am right and Bush wins, then we will lose everything.

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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. Great Post Jack!
I'm proud to have you on our side!

:toast:
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. By the way. Granny D is with you all the way!
As are many other Greens. Shameless plug for my sig line :D
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. OK
We'll see you in 2005 after you've learned your lesson.

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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. Let me make a mature comment
I sincerely hope you guys can pull this off. I hope you can get enough votes to get these criminals out and put a *good* Democrat in. I'm rooting for you all the way.

However, at the end of the day I must stay true to what I believe in. If there is a true Progressive candidate, Democrat or not, to vote for on election day that's who I'll vote for.

I don't believe in having patience. I think a popluation's tendency to be "practical" and "patient" is at the core of it's enslavement. The Jews thought the Nazi's would just go away and it would get better, and so they did little to fight. People stay in careers they never should and stay with spouses they never should because they keep telling themselves that someday it will be better. This way, we never have to take any risky, abrupt action and life seems easier temporarily.

The problem with this attitude is that it is purely self-delusional. It allows the system to suck us into serving it. Our blind faith and hope is nothing more than a carrot that we will never reach as we run around the track that has been made for us. Change can't happen because people are too patient.

I look at what the Democrats are and what they've been. I recognize the fact that they are responsible for the Patriot Act and Iraq. This is not ancient history this is yesterday. They do not stand for what you guys stand for, and yet you remain patient and hope for things to get better.

The fact of the matter is that I cannot vote for someone like Kerry. He is part of the cancer not part of the solution.

I know, a lot of you just wanna believe and pretend that everything is okay...but it isn't. I'm young enough and naive enough to believe that meaningful, lasting change is still possible. It doesn't have to be a choice between worse and worser and it doesn't have to keep getting worse. I cannot get scattered and I must remain connected to movements that fight the cancer at its core...not simply slow it down temporarily.

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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. That deserves a response
It's not like I just woke up the other day and decided to rejoin the Democrats. Nor is it that I burned any bridges with the Greens. This is aimed at getting Bush out and a good -- or at least reasonable -- Democrat in.

I understand where you are coming from. After all, my decision to abandon the Democrats for the Greens wasn't a casual one, either. It was the result of years of frustration with a party that found it too easy to slide to the right rather than lead.

The problem we have here is that an oppressive, illegitimate force has taken control of the executive branch of the government. The legislative branch has been far too complicit in the crimes of the Bushies. I agree that Congressional Democrats share in this shame.

Nevertheless, this is no time to demand it all. The Bushies aren't going away unless we drive them away. Let's be clear: Things aren't going to get better under Bush. Could they be worse under the administration of any of the Democrats running? I don't think so. It's hard to imagine the worst of them proposing Patriot II. Perhaps things will remain bad, but our rights as citizens will be respected. As things are now, those rights are under threat. We cannot allow them to erode further.

A Bush victory in 2004 will only mean a further ersosion of civil liberties. It might mean the end of what is left of American democracy. The Bill of Rights will be sacrificed on the alter of the national security state by the high priests of empire. Instead of being able to present our ideas freely, the day when American citizens will be expected to get in line behind the elitists running the show will be that much closer at hand.

Moreover, look at what else is happening now. The Republican Party, not just Bush, has lost all patience with democratic processes. As we post on this threat, the Republicans seek to recall a Democratic governor in California without even attempting to show any malfeasance; the Republicans in Texas seek to redraw Congressional boundaries that were approved only last year. These are pure and simple power grabs. They are extensions of GOP behavior of the recent past: if one loses a presidential election, then the President may be impeached on the flimsiest pretext; if one is in danger of losing an election, make sure that those who support the opposition are disenfranchized and, failing that, that any remaining votes are not counted. In short, no election loss is considered by the GOP to be final. The will of the voters is respected only when it goes their way.

The kind of behavior exhibited by the GOP in the last several years is alien to the principles of American democracy. I grew up in a country where the people had the final say in who governs them. To allow a single political faction that authority is tyranny.

A stop must be put to this, even if something less than ideal is the immediate result. We may have to continue a fight, but defeating Bush in 2004 -- even if he's replaced by the likes of Lieberman -- will leave the Left stronger to continue the struggle for true democracy.
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MaryBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Another well written post to follow the first, Mr. Rabbit.
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 10:44 PM by GrandmaBear
However, I would add that patience does not necessarily equal being a doormat. Working on a marriage while patiently remaining in it is the way to make it better. Working on one's skills while remaining employed is the way to create opportunities for oneself. These may seem off subject to some, but I think keeping commitments, making adjustments, and fiscal responsibility are all consistent with progressive liberalism. I, too, am a registered Dem.
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. Well said. I couldn't agree more.
:loveya:
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
53. completely relate!
but I saw every repig get in time after time since I have begun to vote and that DOES include the best repig since the last real republican, Abe Lincoln, ie Bill Clinton. Naturally, I voted against ALL of those people, incuding BC by voting Green. I agree that the core of the democratic party has basically no hope going; but, until his plane "goes down", there are some good guys. I even bet the 'independent' in Vermont, Bernie Sanders, will tell you it is imperative get throw the bums out. This is NOT self-delusional, this is a one-time emergency dispensation. Of course 2005 will stink up the country with the demos in control, but if the repigs continue ... will there even be a 2005?
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #39
60. Let's put it this way
You can remain pure, with no little dark shadows on your unblemished soul while they lead you and thousands of others into your cells. You can consider yourself the virtuous believer who didn't lower yourself to fight, who denied the reality.

You have rendered your vote useless. Since I don't want the choice to be the worst of who I must vote for to vote against, I back Dean, who is intelligent and capable, while gathering populus momentum, rather than dissapating that hope on a candidate with limited appeal.

People often stay in careers or don't have choices because their responsibility TO OTHERS comes first. That is the reality of life - one works toward liberation. Responsibility is the key word here, and it would be great if we were dealing with an enlightened public, a free press and government that hadn't been confiscated by the military-industrial complex, but it isn't. Those are the constraints of out cultural and political reality. Root for us who work to change it within the constraints of reality, and use the best tools at our disposal. At least we have a way to build a ladder out of the hole rather than denying the hole exists while dirt is being shoveled from above.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. JackRabbit woohoo good for you...i have 15 green fiends and all....
Edited on Thu Aug-21-03 09:30 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
feel the same and have re-registered Democrat....thank you :toast:
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Thank gawd!
That's encouraging to hear.:D
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
59. hey, ED, hey!
with JackRabbit and cherryperry, you now have at the very least, 17!

:hi:
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
45. We are lucky to have you
Thanks
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snyttri Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. Terry McCauliffe and ex-Greens
I'd like to get rid of him too. Where do you go to vote on that? I don't know how he keeps his job.

Are you in contact with repentantnadervoter.com -because Bush is so bad


http://www.repentantnadervoter.com/
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
50. Another soldier in the fight against the evildoers
who are ruining our country. Thank you and welcome back!
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
55. As a 2000 Nader Traitor
who almost reregistered Green, I really identify with every point you make in your post.
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Best_man23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
61. You should send that into your local paper
I love to see letters like this in the editorial section.

Welcome home, Jack Rabbit.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
62. I proud of you Jack!
Edited on Fri Aug-22-03 07:53 AM by Hubert Flottz
I think you did the right thing for a lot of very good reasons! I don't go along with some things that I've seen politicians in the Democratic party do in the past 10 years either! The next election is not going to be politics as usual IMHO! The stakes are going to be too high for any American who loves Freedom and Democracy, to put lesser wrongs ahead of what's best for America, NOW! Division in our party the next election, will be an irretrievable disaster for every American!

The SCOTUS, not Ralph, opened Pandora's Box on 12/12/2000! People can 'MOVE ON' all they want to, but they can't outrun history!

Again, I salute you Jack for putting your country ahead of your own feelings! * Isn't that what was once called patriotism?
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
64. i'm voting democratic
but i'm staying with the green party. i respect your decision.
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
67. respect your thinking and decision ,JackRabbit
i did the same when i moved. when i lived in NY it was easier because the DEMs and Gore were on stable ground but, with the move to a different state i no longer had that luxury. i wanted to vote in the primaries too, and have a say who in will be the candidate.
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rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
72. Thanks for the thoughtful post...
...I can relate to much of what you say.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Please read my post #52 above - thx! n/t
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. GET THEM OUT!!!!
That is the most important thing we have to do in 2004. I'm 60 years old and have yet to vote FOR a candidate. I am always voting against someone and 2004 will be no different. I too am disappointed with the Dems in Washington and really don't understand why they don't stand up against the opposition more. Maybe they are afraid for their very lives. I really would love to vote for a third party candidate, but it's always just too important, and the vote would be a throw-away vote. The Dems and the Greens need to get together on the next election and on the CA October election, but especially on Barbara Boxer's next campaign - it is imperative that we keep Boxer in Washington because she is a fighter, and, Lord knows, we need them fighters. Nice post, Jack Rabbit. You should consider getting into politics - I'd vote for you.
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cherryperry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. No kidding on the Boxer deal as well
as the recall. If this state makes a right turn again, maybe it's time to take it on the run . . .
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. Hi spenbax!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
76. I'm glad to have you...
When will those in the DLC see that liberal votes are just as need to win as moderate votes? This strategy that the DLC is using, of supporting either a DLC nominee or no nominee is what will return shrub to office!

It is the liberal voters and the those who voted green, who are the most eager to see a sucessful Democratic Presidential Candidate. To the DLC, winning back the White House or Congress are only a secondary matters compared to their objective of pushing their pro-business stars in state and local races.

But who will be the ones who can be counted on to turn out and vote for these candidates in November?
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
79. Good news Jack
Now, if we could opnly getthe REST of he Greens to see the advantage of supporting Dean. I estimate currently at our Meetups about 10% of the folk are Greens.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
80. Well said, Jack Rabbit.
I am another Californian who recently reregistered dem to take part in the primaries; except I've never, in 25 years of voting, belonged to a political party before. I've voted for candidates representing most parties. Including Greens, though I went with Gore in 2000. I'm one of those rabid, tree-hugging environmentalists, so the Greens naturally have things to attract me. So does the universal law party. I would have voted for the dem in 04 regardless; ousting bush is too critical to play around with anyone else. I registered dem to work for Kucinich, who is the first politician in my adult life to actually say the things I'm thinking and feeling. Whoever is nominated will get my vote, but meanwhile I'm motivated and energized to pay attention to politics because there is a candidate I can support without reservation, with enthusiasm. I've always chosen the candidates based on what I felt was best for the office; never for partisan purposes. I have to admit to some partisan bias; I've been living in the stauch repub Aerospace aka Antelope Valley since 1980, and anti-republican feeling is just a natural response to the constant bombardment. For years, I've operated on the basis of "Anybody but a republican," just in reaction to the political environment here. It is really exciting to be able to vote feeling like my vote matters, and that I can help make a positive difference.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
81. Not I
The Green Party, I think, is the party of the progressive movement in the United States at this point in time. I'd like to see increasing cooperation between Greens and progressive Democrats.

Whoever the Democrats nominate, I'll vote for him or her next year. While I support Dennis Kucinich, I realize that he probably won't make it to my state in the primaries, let alone win the nomination. There's no compelling reason for me to change my registration.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Why not come out and
help Dennis win the nomination? Greens are working for him all over. Many are reregistering so that they can support him. If you think he's the one, come on out and help us deliver him to the rest of the voters!
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
86. Way to fight, Jack Rabbit!
I came back only a few months ago from Independent. Kucinich was the man that got me back. I agree with the sentiments of some others here that he is the first candidate in my entire life I feel I can back without reservation at this point. I was Independent because I wanted to vote my conscience and for what I believe this country is about (or supposed to be anyway), this time I actually get the opprtunity to do so. :)
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. It's a great feeling
to work for a candidate you can believe in! Dennis is pulling in the disenfranchised and the disinterested, and the disappointed, from all over the country.
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. With a passion for
significant and meaningful change, not just a back step into the same old, same old!! That is truly what inspires passion in his supporters.

Glad to meet you! :)
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Glad right back at 'cha!
Significant and meaningful change can energize the silent majority.
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