My father says I've become a liberal because I haven't lived long enough

[noahmijo]

Ugh I guess I will never change him since I made the change earlier this year

See:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2125243&mesg_id=2125243


He saw my copy of Clinton's new book and it just set him off. I asked him why he hated Clinton so much and he says "well I guess he did some good things, but he appointed those crooked Supreme court justices that are pro-ACLU and they're anti-American down with America types who are destroying this country just like the rest of the Democrats!"

What's worse is he doesn't care and forgets easily about issues like the economy, healthcare, ect he just wants to hear who is more likely to "kill those fucking ragheads who are killing our soldiers over there"

I'm sure I'm not the only one here with this problem, unfortunately though I'm too poor to move out on my own at the moment but hopefully after graduation this fall....

[bleedingheart]

1. the older I get the more liberal I become...

I used to be far more conservative in my youth.....then I lived my life a bit and found that what we need is more liberalism...not more sanctimonious conservativism...

[AlCzervik]

5. Me too

actually having a child has made more liberal, i worry about her growing up in Bushworld.

[JCMach1]

13. Me too

:)

[movonne]

20. Me too. I did not pay much attention to politics until the last few

years. Now I have become a flaming liberal from probably a moderate Democrat (who voted for Reagan, sorry to say). Before that I always voted Democratic. I think that the whole Clinton debacle is when I got more and more Liberal.

[daa]

26. Me too nt

[Tight_rope]

85. Me Three!....

[Sugarbleus]

103. Count me in also!

I'm for moving the country/society FORWARD not backward to the golden age of Aristocracy and fiefdom



on edit to add: I'm 55

[wtmusic]

2. that POV blows my mind

"kill those fucking ragheads who are killing our soldiers over there"

What the fuck are our soldiers doing invading their country? WTF?

My blood pressure....breathe deep...

[Ishoutandscream]

3. BS. I'll be 43 in September, and I have become more liberal

in the last ten years or so. What really put me "over the top" was the election theft of 2000. Remember that being liberal is just not a stand on issues. It is also about being informed and intelligent.

[Citizen Daryl]

50. You and me both. I'm 37 ...

... and while the aftermath of the 2000 election had me concerned, to be honest, I was one of those people who were just glad it was all over.

It wasn't until the Enron (et al) scandal and the "Patriot Act" that I started to become seriously alarmed at what was happening in this country. I've been blogging since just before the November 2000 elections, and it's been fascinating to see my transformation from a diplomatic moderate to a passionate liberal.

[homelandpunk]

89. Right! The "stand on the issues" is a very minor aspect of being liberal!

<<It is also about being informed and intelligent.>>

Only thing I would say is it is MOSTLY about being informed and intelligent.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I have no idea how old you are,

but I'm 53 and a liberal, and my brother is 62 and a liberal...and we've converted our 85 year old mother to Kerry.

As for 'killing ragheads'- remind him that prejudice doesn't help at all. For one thing, not all 'ragheads' are terrorists-many Middle Easterners aren't even Muslim. If he's of my generation, he might remember Danny Thomas-a wonderful Lebanese-American. Does he think Danny and his cause, St. Jude's Hospital, are terrorist organizations?

[noahmijo]

16. I'm 22 and unfortunately he wouldn't care

He's 56, and having talks as to why racism doesn't work would be about as efficient as trying to get * to tell the truth about Iraq.

I think it's just hopeless at this point, best thing I can do is just tough it up here till I can move out and in the meantime try to avoid politics, but he's the one that always brings it up, and to tell you the truth I hate backing down from arguments that I know I can win especially when it comes to issues like this.

[Sugarbleus]

107. Excellent point ayes! I often think of Danny Thomas

Glad you brought it up.

[2Design]

6. I was more conservative in my 30's and 40's...then

life happened. Now I understand we must do what is best for ALL the people and not just a few. Having money and good job has responsibilities which is hard to understand until you don't have them.

PAul Newman is a good example. He gives away tons of money and is still rich. He does kind and good works for people.

They were lucky and became famous. They made tons. And they give back.

[OneTwentyoNine]

7. Don't alienate yourself from your dad.......

It isn't worth it IMO. I'm lucky because my father has been a Dem for over 60 years but if he wasn't I wouldn't press the issue.

Sometimes,like some of my cousins they'll come around and see the truth for themselves and make the switch. Good luck to you...

David

[noahmijo]

19. I won't I mean overall he's been a good father

It's just since I made "the switch" he gets very nasty with me and the only issue he cares about is "who's gonna shoot the terrorists?"

He hates Bush and actually thinks he's too liberal on the subject believe it or not.

That's why I'm saying since I'm getting this treatment I'd prefer to be on the basis of not having to be around him 24/7 during political season.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

60. My stepfather and I

agreed never to talk about Kent State, as we were diametrically opposed on our positions on the Viet Nam war. He was a decent step father, and I got along with him ok as long as we didn't talk politics.

[Citizen Daryl]

69. "Hates Bush" ... "Thinks he's too liberal" ...

He listens to Michael Weiner, doesn't he?

[SemperEadem]

74. by "terrorists", does he mean the ones who look like him, like McVeigh?

or Nichols? Or the boys who shot up Columbine High School? Or John Wayne Gacy (serial killers are by definition terrorists)? Or is it ok if they look like he does--just boys being boys?

Our soldiers wouldn't be over there in the first place occupying a sovereign nation if * didn't lie to achieve his own ends. If a country decided to invade and occupy our country, according to him, should we all just sit back and welcome them with flowers and balloons or should we take up arms and defend our homes? Why is it wrong for the Iraqis to do what we would do in the very same situation?

[pbg]

109. Give him Richard Clarke's book

You might at least wake him up to the fact that the Busheviki are NOT fighting the terrorists.

[joefree1]

Dad's a Korean War vet AND a liberal and a Green Party member

He was President of his teachers Union and highly respected in our community.

Some people do get more bitter as they get older but they're a small minority.


Download the free bumper art here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

[wtmusic]

8. I'll bet your Dad hasn't traveled much

and doesn't talk much with people from other countries. That's one problem with the US being a virtual island.

[noahmijo]

24. South America he was a Customs Special Agent

What's interesting is from what he tells me he was probably more liberal than me in college he even joined environmental groups and groups that catered to African-Americans.

I think what changed him was police work, I think he basically had to deal with alot of defense attourneys who attacked like assholes to him and that basically started to sour his belief in liberalism.

[wtmusic]

36. Was that a long time ago? n/t

[noahmijo]

39. Oh yea it was musta been like 15 years ago

I know what you're saying though, the answer is no I don't think he's gotten very much exposure to people from around the world.

I on the other hand in the last 4 years have met people from at least 70 countries or so from college including good people from Pakistan and Qatar, who I became fast friends with.

[wtmusic]

54. We should have mandatory cultural education

in every public school as a requirement for getting federal aid.

When kids are exposed to other cultures early on it has a lifelong effect.

[mzmolly]

9. Point him to Jimmy Carter, or Granny D.

;)

I agree with the others here. I become MORE liberal with age. :hi:

[Speck Tater]

10. Is that how it works? 50 years ago I was very conservative.

And I just keep getting more liberal as I grow in wisdom and compassion, and leave behind that childish selfishness and fearfullness that are at the root of the conservative personality.

[Gothic Sponge]

11. I've always been liberal, but now in my 30s...

I've become an uber-liberal.

[rfranklin]

12. You have to be an optimist to grow old as a liberal...

Conservatives are fearful, angry people. They do not believe that people can rise above their greedy, homocidal dog-eat-dog impulses. If that were true, however, we would have never had societies and governments that wiped out smallpox and other diseases, that created infrastructures that enabled more trade and mobility, that made 95% of the population semi-literate.

Conservatives are losers.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

42. DAMN GOOD POST

you summed it up nicely, rfranklin. Well done.

[PA Democrat]

84. You know what is really interesting though?

They don't trust individuals but they DO trust corporations to do the right thing. They think that corporations will police themselves and do not need governmental regulation.

[WoodrowFan]

95. good point

It does seem like most RWers are AFRAID. fear of the "other" seems to be a prime aspect of their mindset.

[VOX]

114. Wow. Center shot, rfranklin.

thanks. :toast:

[NightOwwl]

14. 46 and a liberal.

Always have been, always will be.

[jerryvov]

30. I'm sixty six...

with six kids and four grandsons and the more I see of conservative, right wing politics the more disgusted I become. As a nation we used to care about each other and we used to try to be tolerant (at least most of us did)...but Korporate America has changed us so as to be almost unrecognizable and greed is the new watchword. If we don't change direction soon, it may become too late to do so...

Even if this administration gets tossed out in November I worry that the huge deficits they've created are going to be their leverage for getting back in 4 years from now...because somebody is going to have to take a stand and say: Look, folks...corporations are going to have to start paying their fair share; the wealthy are going to have to start paying their fair share.

That will not be welcome news (as in: tax & spend) but it will happen one way or another. I wrry about where we're headed...I worry a lot.

[joefree1]

44. Welcome to DU jerryvov

Don't worry too much. Folks like you and I are starting to make a lot of noise. Look what we've done to the GOP. They're trotting out all the pro-choice repukes to hide the fact they're really a party of conservatives.

[Sugarbleus]

108. I hear you loud and clear and I worry a lot also....but I

keep fighting for sensible government anyway. Good to see you here.
:hi:

[RebelOne]

15. I am probably older than yout father, which means that

I have definitely lived long enough and I've been a liberal as long as I can remember.

[never_get_over_it]

17. Its funny you should post this

I was just thinking the other day - I know several people probably in the early to mid 50 age range who were much more liberal when they were young...however although I am a little younger than thes folks I was just thinking I have always been liberal and actually think I am getting more liberal the older I get....

[proud patriot]

18. My Dad is 60, traveled the world, worked hard his whole life

and is MORE Liberal Than I am . I believe he is still
Green :shrug: Perhaps when I'm 60 I'll be as Liberal as
he. My mom also is more Liberal than me .

[Pachamama]

21. Are you my Brother? My Dad says the same kind of nonsense...

Says that I'll eventually "mature" and come around....

This from a guy who thinks Global Climate Change is a lie...when asked about pollution and the destruction of species and global warming...he said it doesn't matter - he won't be around....

Yeah, I'm related...

[noahmijo]

28. ::breaks into tears:: brothers don't shake hands man brothers gotta hug!!

Well with me my dad just ignores everything it's all about guns and who's gonna kill the terrorists that's it.

Bring up global warming or the economy he doesn't give a shit, he's always had a govt job so the economy has never been a concern to him (let's face it no matter how crappy the economy is doing they never lay off the govt jobs especially in law enforcement)

[Pachamama]

45. OMG - I'm Catholic and my Dad worked for the Gov't - you sure your not

my brother and I just didn't know you and are both DUers?

You don't by chance live in - Washington DC ? :eyes:

[noahmijo]

63. awww nope actually I live in Tucson Az

[TexasSissy]

22. Well, I'm middle aged with a conservative Repub father.

It'd be hard for him to make that kind of argument with me, since I have, indeed, lived long enough.

It's the standard argument that people of any side make with people of an opposing side: You only believe that way 'cause you're too ignorant to know better, unlike me (impliedly smart).

I try to stay away from the subject of politics w/my father. It's best that way. Maybe you should, too. You will not change his mind. With my father, I mention politics only when I don't let him get away with a blatant Republican statement, such as "Clinton was bad," or "Thank God for Bush." I remind him that I am a Democratic who thinks that Clinton was a great President who did a lot of good things for the country, and that I think Bush got us into a nightmare of a mess with Iraq. I leave it at simple statements like that....and I only say them in response to a statement by him. I never discuss politics at length with him.

You may have to remind him on occasion to respect your views, which are different from his. Use the word "respect" if you have to. Beyond that, it's best not to start a war w/your flesh & blood over politics. Just vote your conscience and work for whatever candidates you believe in, and don't succumb to family "group think."

And remember---You will be the one paying off this huge deficit .... not your dad. You think you disagree with Bush NOW, wait until a 35% tax rate hits your 401K.

[noahmijo]

31. That's a good point but is there anyway out of a 401k?

I always thought the 401k is a sham. I'd prefer to make my own retirement.

[TexasSissy]

53. As Suze Orman said, "Do you really think the government is

going to set up a program where it loses money in the end?" (I'm paraphrasing)

401Ks haven't been around long enough for them to be tried and true. Maybe they'll end up being a good thing for the participants, like many think. But maybe our tax rates will be so high by then that it would've been better to save our own money with after tax dollars. We don't know yet.

But the huge deficit ensures that taxes will go up substantially more than anyone thought, when the 401K was designed.

That does not mean that 401k plans are still not a good deal in the long run, primarily because EMPLOYERS USU. CONTRIBUTE $$$ TO THEM. And as long as an employee has access to a 401k plan, there are federal laws that prohibit them from participating in other types of plans. I'm not familiar with the details of that, however. I believe that I have few other choices, because of my particular situation.

You might want to do a Google search on this subject. There's lots of information on this subject in financial sites.

The Roth IRA is the BEST...ABSOLUTELY THE BEST, except that the $$$ you can contribute is very limited. EVERY ONE SHOULD CONTRIBUTE TO A ROTH IRA even if you contribute to a 401K, as well. You use after-tax dollars, stick it in an account.....and that money grows over time, hopefully. The Roth IRA....all your contributions and any earnings it made....IS NEVER AGAIN TAXED, ever. Free money. This is a very good deal that all should take advantage of.

There is one advantage that some have to a 401K that I do not: Some companies make matching contributions to a 401K, if the employee contributes. That is free money. To get it, you must contribute. Employees need to do that. (In my case, my employer contributes, whether I do or not, so I wouldn't need to make contributions to get that $$$$.) So even with higher taxes than I anticipated, I should come out ahead, since I got free money from my employer over the years (65% of $10,000 given my employer is a lot more than 100% of no free money).

Still, having the government take out a lot more from our 401k than was planned...making it less worth the saving over the years, and making the free money from the employer become virtually the only benefit to the plan, irks me to no end. Maybe this won't happen. But I feel in my gut that it will. We will have an enormous deficit to pay off, and there will be millions of retired babyboomers with 401ks. Common sense tells me that income tax and retirement fund rates will go sky high.

[Generic Other]

23. The older you get the more your good name is worth

Being a liberal keeps me young. It means I never have to become an old greedy, lying, deluded, meanspirited foul smelling old fart.

[southernleftylady]

25. My parents said the opposite lol they said that they have learned more

and now vote liberal :) lol

[goju]

27. 46 and still liberal

Age has nothing to do with it! Set in ones ways, stubborn, sometimes blind to reality... those might be some comments you can make to your dad. Respectfully of course :)

[napi21]

29. Well, I'm 61 and I've always been a Dem. but not as interested

in politics as I have been in the last 4 or 5 years. I had to quite working my 80 hour a week job, and I watch a lot of c-span to see for myself who is actually saying what. I decided there's so damn many different opinions in the media, I'll find out for myself.

I am a STRONG Dem! There's so much spin everywhere, I'm dizy half the time.

One of the newest funnies I just heard today is what "there has been a change! Now more millionairs are Dems and the comman man has turned Republican." Where did that come from???

I've been told:

All young people start out Dems, but if you haven't become a Pub by the time you're 40 you're an idiot

All Christians are Pub and all Dems are anti-religion

All Dems are on welfare and are lazy

All Dems are doves and wouldn't protect our Country

I could go on and on. NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE TRUE IN MY CASE!

Some people will never be convinced that they could be wrong.

[The empressof all]

32. I remember a high school teacher in the early 70s told us

That liberals tend to be young and naive or old and wise. It is the folks in middle age that tend to follow their purses or the status quo.

I for one am a middle ager who has gone from naive straight to wise!

[CaTeacher]

62. I have taught at all levels from

elementary to post-graduate. It is true that many educators are liberal and that many of us make a concerted effort to influence our students. I personally do this every single day. And I am proud of that.

The statistics are very good for our side--during the college years many students turn to the left (they are easily influenced by their teachers and peers at that age. I can't tell you how many young men I turned Democratic when I was a young collegian! I did almost as well as I do now, with the power of being an educator on my side.)

But, it is true that many leave our ranks as they get jobs and families. I wish I knew how to better combat that. We do indeed lose a percentage of people as they age, we need to learn how to combat that better.

[gulliver]

33. He may be right.

Age weakens the thinking in some. The baseless, angry dogma that bills itself as "conservatism" is a real threat to susceptible, weakened minds.

If you feel yourself starting to go conservative as you age, see a doctor. It may be Alzheimer's. I'm completely serious.

[noahmijo]

35. Honestly buddy I think switching from liberal from conservative

is like switching from mac back to windows....once you go you never go back!

:toast:

[joefree1]

46. There you lost a few of us

48 years old and a confirmed MAC users. No virus problems, "it's UNIX" and it looks way cool.

But then we all here believe in diversity so enjoy.

[noahmijo]

58. LoL I don't rag on Windows users I say each his own

I was a Windows user for years I switched to Mac last year actually.

I think it's good to know both systems, however my personal preference will and always will be from now on a Mac, but if someone else prefers Windows hey that's their choice.

I am hereby pro-choice when it comes to operating systems!

[gulliver]

65. I'm keeping an eye on Mac.

I'll be getting a Mac one of these days. The switch to Unix made that a certainty. Just a matter of when...

But I'll keep the PCs too.

[Nite Owl]

34. I'm in my 50's

and very liberal. They say as you get older you vote with your pocketbook but what good is all the money in the world if you sell your soul?

[Cleita]

37. I don't know how old your father is, but what changed mine

somewhat was when he started to see that his Medicare and Social Security were being threatened by the conservatives.

[Eloriel]

38. He's frightened, noahmijo

As others have so eloquently pointed out, racism and militarism and pro-Bush War on Terror are all fear-based sentiments. Doesn't make it easy to live with, but it's probably a good plan to just let it ride, at least while you're living there. There's a lot to be said for having enough compassion yourself to recognize the fear there, as well as the fact that harmonious living conditions are better than the lack of them. ;-)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

40. I don't get it

I get MORE liberal as I get older.

I am 33, my husband is 36. We are WAY more liberal now than we were when we met, 14 years ago.

I don't think I was ever completely conservative, but in my teens, I was close (think 80s and Reagan, ok?).

If I keep going like this, I'm going to be the biggest flaming liberal the world's ever SEEN in about ten years' time!!!!

What's wrong with the ACLU, by the way? Have you ever asked your dad that? I've never understood the ACLU animosity. Hello? American CIVIL LIBERTIES???? That's a BAD thing???

Ooo, just caught the "fucking ragheads" part. There ya go. Racism/bigotry is always going to kill even the tiniest liberal spark in a person. Ick.

[blueblitzkrieg]

41. I can relate...

I'm 21 and my parents think I'm being indoctrinated by "brainwashing liberal professors", because, ya know, I'm too stupid to think for myself and I am so easily manipulated. :eyes:

They think I'll change but it's not going to happen. I'm a liberal for life. Sorry mom and dad!

[stopbush]

43. That's a pretty typical response from R's. My older brother said that

to me once and I read him the riot act. We have barely spoken to each other for about 5 years (it's the "if he wasn't my bro, I'd never talk to him" syndrome).

You dad's attitude is unfortunately a cover for the evil isms in the R mindset. Racism, what have you. It's the "when you're older, you'll see how things *really* work...and you'll go Republican" myth. It's the politics of fear, with the biggest fear being that the *evil Dems* want to take away your money that you worked so hard to steal, er, earn. That allows them to engage in overtly racist beliefs and practices. As they grow older, their sphere of experience and social contact shrinks as they become more isolationist and self-serving/gratifying in their life view. It's sad, really.

Funny how the R's seem to have little problem with the R's in power taking away your children to serve up as chattel in some ill-conceived war-for-the-benefit-of-the-already-wealthy.

Take my children, just don't take my Hummer.

[Citizen Daryl]

47. I spent my 20s as a right wing evangelical Christian.

Now I'm almost in my 40s, and it seems I become more and more liberal every single day.

So much for conventional wisdom. :)

[joefree1]

49. Hee hee, middle age and a pagan

Coming from a fundamentalist family. So much for reactionary dogma indeed.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PaganWarrior/

[Sugarbleus]

112. I'm not so different Daryl...

I was raised that way. "Sowed my oats" (as they like to say over there) in my 20's, went back to church life in 30's, dropped out again in 40's and have been disllusioned with the dogma ever since.

I've always been liberal, even as I attended those churches...I just got more liberal as time went by and HAD to distance myself from the conservative movement inside those religious sects.. I feel much freer.

55 now; liberal and LOVIN' IT! :D

[Cat Atomic]

48. Let me guess. Dad has a government job?

I swear, every time I meet a person who doesn't care about national healthcare and jobs, they turn out to be someone that's been sucking the government teat since highschool.

Then they go on o bitch about "big government" and "welfare queens".

[noahmijo]

59. Uhh..slightly sweating...yup

That's the amazing thing, he works for the county attourney who is a liberal and a half and even talks about how he can't stand working for a Democrat and to me it's like hey that Democrat gave you a fuckin job and takes good care of you and other freeper employees there...

I really really really hate to say this...you nailed it.

[EndElectoral]

51. A lot of libs older than him voted for Roosevelt.

[salin]

52. Want to boil his blood for a second?

Remind him that what made you liberal was... George W. Bush

or that if not for George W. Bush, you would probably still be voting republican...

(I know... pretty mean, eh.)

[noahmijo]

61. Well the problem is he hates Bush too

Because he thinks Bush is too liberal on terrorism!!!

[salin]

64. Your Dad

sounds a tad bit extreme.

[Misunderestimator]

55. Apparently your father hasn't lived long enough to become a liberal...

My conservative dad became a liberal shortly after Dubya was selected, at the age of 72.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

56. As a retired cop and customs agent, your dad benefited from liberal

programs. Both are unionized positions that had great retirement programs. Did he think conservatives created those protections in his jobs? Did he think conservatives created the social security he can collect at the max, given that he was probably earning well?

[CBHagman]

57. I always like to tell people...

...that if nothing had ever happened to me after age 15, I would have wound up a conservative Republican. It was so much easier to see things in absolute terms when I was 15, and there were so many things I hadn't had a chance to see first-hand and so many people whose opinions I'd never had to consider. I had a romanticized view of the Middle East, believed feminism didn't fit in with Christianity, and thought abortion had to be viewed as murder. I never gave any thought to things such as a living wage or health insurance.

By age 18 I considered myself a moderate and voted for Gerald Ford in the presidential election

Thirty years, with multiple elections and campaigns, various jobs, overseas travel, and several spiritual and medical crises behind me, I view the world in a very different way. One of the clinchers was living and working overseas and having to discuss politics and policy with various friends, colleagues and teachers. That's right up there with religious conversion in terms of life-changing events, folks.

That said, I don't expect to convert anyone in my family, especially my 80-something aunt, and maybe not even among my friends. But I still hope to gain a foothold with them on some issue -- health care, foreign policy -- and make them understand what it is we are confronting. Even if my GOP parents are rolling in their graves.

[Maeve]

86. Interesting....

I've heard it said that young people are often conservative for the very reasons you mention--inexperience and the tendency to see things in blakc and white terms. I was, too...and I voted for Ford my first presidential election, too!

Four kids and a world of experience later-- I'm not sure how much I've moved left and how much the country moved right, but my "moderation" now puts me firmly in the Liberal Lane and that's where I expect to remain.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

66. ACLU Mission statement

The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles:

* that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives;

* that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.

Majority power is limited by the Constitution's Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the Thirteenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth) and the Nineteenth Amendment (women's suffrage), adopted in 1920.

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

* Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.

* Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.

* Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.

* Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.

If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled.
http://www.aclu.org/about/aboutmain.cfm

How unAmerican.... :eyes:

[sandnsea]

67. Some people remain open-minded

And open of heart and spirit. Others turn into cynical old curmudgeons. I love curmudgeons, but it isn't a way of life I'd recommend to my children.

[jus_the_facts]

68. Read him this and ask him if he remembers these historic events.......

...the ones he was allowed to hear about....and THEN the ones that have been left out.....see if he refuses to wanna hear about and learn the bigger picture...can't even get much response around here...there is much more about these people that nobody wants to see it seems.... :evilfrown:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2130814

[TrogL]

70. I'm pushing 50 and I'm getting more liberal

[the_outsider]

71. liberal<-liberalis (liberty)

Ironic that USA is busy in promoting and extending democracy all over the world and at the same time "liberal" is now a dirty word inside USA. Tells us something about the situation of the republic.

"kill those fucking ragheads who are killing our soldiers over there"

You have to ask him - what are our soldiers doing there? not as a rhetorical question but make a genuine honest attempt to understand what he thinks. If it's the peace/freedom/democracy in middle-east line of argument, it should be easy to break down if you are armed with the history of US intervention in middle east and the devastating outcomes. If it's "we are the superpower and it's our god given right to do so, to be so we need cheap oil and absolute control over middle east" line of argument, you will have to either point out that it's a racist and inhuman argument or do a cost-benefit analysis to explain that it's not worth it particularly when the cost is hugely socialized and the benefit is extremely privatized to a selected few. Never give up.

[SemperEadem]

72. Dad, have you taken your medication today?

you know, the repugs would rather you die in the street than to offer you adequate medical care and coverage. Why, the HMO's are their brainchild--and Bush has said that if your incompetant doctor misdiagnosis you or gives you too much of the wrong medicine and you are injured, you can't sue them--you have to just live with your injuries in quiet or die--the latter being the choice they prefer.

Killing a 'rag-head' is not going to rejuvenate the medical system in this country... and by the way, you're not invited to the party Bush and his minions are having at the expense of hard-working American taxpayers who fulfil their duties to their country. In the words of Ron Reagan "You're the help... you'll be picking the shrimp shells out of the carpet."

Pops needs to recognize.

[Mari333]

73. Tell him this 53 year old mother disagrees with him and so does

granny D shes 94 years old
http://www.grannyd.com
theres nothing more tiresome then older people using that baloney-line.

[welshTerrier2]

75. aging: more wisdom or "stuck in the past" ??

first of all, tell your father that, while aging teaches us many lessons, many do not learn them very well ... Granny D is 94 years old and is one of the most enlightened liberals ever to run for office (http://www.grannyd.com/) ... she's running for the senate seat in New Hampshire ...

secondly, your dad does not seem able to distinguish between "down with america types" who are being critical of actions the american government has taken and those who fail to honor our constitution and our values ... it is NOT UN-AMERICAN to criticize your country if it engages in wars to benefit multi-national corporate interests ... perhaps he's not aware of Eisenhower's warning about "being wary of the military-industrial complex" ... whether your dad likes it or not, Ike was not exactly a liberal democrat ...

your dad seems to have forgotten which party currently controls the white house, the house and the senate ... does he approve of the job they've done with the economy? they are spending us into such serious deficits that we may not be able to provide a sufficient military in the years to come ... does he blame the democrats for this misguided policy? the democrats have not been in control ...

and as for "ragheads", report after report has shown the ranks of Al Qaeda are growing in response to U.S. policy ... if he wants to argue that bush's endless war is making us safer, ask him why we keep seeing the bush administration issuing all these orange alerts !! does he want to blame the democrats for this? bush tried to block the democrats' call for a homeland security department ... bush initially refused to allow the formation of a 9/11 commission until it became politically necessary to do so ... of all the funds authorized for Iraq, how many dollars are going to directly benefit the troops? what is happening in VA hospitals all over this country? does your father believe all the "liberals" are blocking funds for veterans with medical needs? Since bush took office, tens of thousands of cops have lost their jobs ... does that seem like a good way to fight terrorism? does your dad consider it "pro-american" to support trade policies and corporate interests that have been exporting american jobs overseas? is it "anti-american" to criticize a government that supports this policy?

tell your dad to stop focussing so much on Clinton and ask him to look at who's looking out for our system of government and our way of life ... it's too bad he can't see the difference between those Republicans who have honest disagreements with democrats on the issues and the corruption and evil that bush's administration represents ... your father's views are stuck in the past ... the democratic party and the issues we face today are very different from the democrats of 25 years ago ... tell your dad that age has its good points but being stuck in the past without being open to taking a "fresh look" is not among them ...

[mandyky]

76. How much Rush and/or Fox does he consume?

Ask him what he thinks the Supreme Court's purpose is, and why he thinks the ACLU is so bad. Do this very calmly and respectfully. If he uses the internet find him a few websites about both. If you just changed a year ago, don't give up on him yet. See if you can get him to listen to Ed Shultz or some other centrist radio show. Does he like movies? Has he seen Enemy of the State, Pelican Brief, or An American President? If not, bring one home., and emgage him in conversation once you watch it together. It might take him awhile to accept your change and even longer to make his own. Were you close when you were not a liberal? Try to remember things you and he agree on.

I am 49 and get more liberal every day, especially since this administration's term.

[noahmijo]

78. He hates the internet and never watches tv hardly

But is an avid listener of Weiner

[Cybergata]

77. I was more of a conservative liberal when I was young...

but the older I get and the more I learn, the more liberal I become. The more I work with people, the more liberal I become. Age has nothing to do with it. :hippie:

[misanthrope]

79. What?...

...Pops needs to get his facts straight.

As of 2004, the United States Supreme Court Justices are:

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist (born 1924, appointed by Richard Nixon in 1972 and elevated by Ronald Reagan in 1986);

Justice John Paul Stevens (born 1920, appointed by Gerald Ford in 1975);

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor (born 1930, appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1981);

Justice Antonin Scalia (born 1936, appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1986);

Justice Anthony Kennedy (born 1936, appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1988);

Justice David Souter (born 1939, appointed by George H. W. Bush in 1990);

Justice Clarence Thomas (born 1948, appointed by George H. W. Bush in 1991);

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg (born 1933, appointed by Bill Clinton in 1993);

Justice Stephen Breyer (born 1938, appointed by Bill Clinton in 1994).

So, for those with scorecards at home, that's 1 Nixon, 1 Ford, 3 Reagan, 2 Bush, and 2 Clinton.

I bet he had no problem with them in December of 2000.

[noahmijo]

81. In particular he's mad at the ones Clinton appointed

Says that the two he appointed are anti-American and have been fucking over cops for years.

[Cha]

110. ANd yet..And yet!...the National Police Assocciation Endorsed..

Kerry/Edwards!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

80. Hang in there! Just call a truce on politics til you move out.

[RedEarth]

82. I was liberal when I was 20 and I'm even more liberal now that I'm 55

The direction our country is headed under this admin is very, very alarming and we need to do everything in our power to get them out of office....

[rocktivity]

83. Tell your father that if Bush wins and re-institutes the draft

you probably won't GET TO live long enough!

:headbang:
rocknation

[noahmijo]

88. That's good but he'll just say

That's liberal bullshit there is no chance of a draft he wouldn't do that they can't do that...I mean..you're in college! and an only child!

[rocktivity]

102. Your educational and familial status will not be options this time

nor will leaving the country. And they're planning to take anyone through age 34, rather than the standard age 26.

The Bush regime are building 14 military bases in Iraq even as we speak to use has a home base for their invasion of the rest of the Middle East. (That's why there was no exit strategy: there was no INTENT to exit.) You could be ducking bullets in Iran or Syria as soon as next spring!

http://www.bushdraft.com

:headbang:
rocknation

[noahmijo]

105. I already know this (thanks for reminding me!!!)

It's just that he (father) doesn't know this nor would he believe it if I told him.

[Cha]

111. That's just Sick and Sad cause I know how it started...

And I hate to be self absorbed about this but my first thought after reading this is..I'm glad my son is 37!

[ronnykmarshall]

87. Your father should speak to my parents.

They became liberal democrats in their 50's.

[Deja Q]

90. I know LOTS of people in their 50s and 60s...

And they are liberal. * and his corporate buddies proverbally sodomize us all with broomsticks, the more they hate them.

Maybe they haven't lived long enough? :shrug:

Just how old is sufficiently old to be thinking and doing such nasty things?

What a crock of an argument, that age makes all the difference.

[NightTrain]

91. Clinton appointed crooked Supreme Court justices?!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only Clinton appointee on the Supreme Court is Ruth Bader Ginsburg (sp?), who was among the four justices that voted NOT to stop the Florida recount in 2000 and hand the presidency to Bush.

Your father is very ignorant!

[CaTeacher]

93. Justice Stephen Breyer

is also a Clinton appointee on the Supreme Court.

[NightTrain]

94. I stand corrected. However...

...Breyer, too, voted with the minority on Bush v. Gore, so my original point remains intact.

[quaker bill]

92. The liberal tradition spans several hundred years.

When I was told this, many years ago, I responded that my father was conservative because he had not read enough and gave him a few books.

[Swamp Rat]

96. Tell your dad that a group of extremely intelligent intellectuals (we

DUers, hee hee) say that the reason you have become more liberal is because you are learning and becoming more mature and intelligent. Remind him those "ragheads" are killing our people because Bush&Co SENT them over there TO BE KILLED.

I'm sorry your dad is this way, but never give up on him. He may change sooner than you think. Tell him my dad is 73 and has become VERY liberal as he grew older, because being liberal is the AMERICAN thing to do. "Give me liberty or give me death!"

edit: rats can't spell well.

[MODemocrat]

97. I'm 71 years old and liberal,

With due respect to your Dad, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I have a friend in his late 70's who is going to the Democratic side from here on in. He said Bushes turned him on being a republican.

[bo44]

98. There is a time in a man's life that he accepts that his pops is nuts

without losing respect for the man. My dad is a very successful self made man. He knows certain things but not all. That fact has not stopped him from giving his two cents worth in regard to my life that he has no right to question. No amount of me telling him to fuck off, ignoring his bullshit, or avoiding him will prevent him from being a bigoted, opinionated control freak who will always find fault in what I do. I am a 44 year old married father and school teacher. To him I am still the teenage moron I was 30 years ago. I know who I am. For me to accept who I am I have lived to understand that for all of my dad's success he is not capable of being a kind, nurturing and tolerant man and not qualified to influence my view of the world.

[noahmijo]

106. Well that won't happen with my kids that's all I know

If I get anything from my father it's how NOT to treat your kids when they grow up to be young adults.

[Sugarbleus]

113. BRAVO.... You are your own man...

Well done!

My mother was a nut. As she aged, I gave her all due respect and room to age. I remember some of the things she spouted about this issue or that and it just blew me away at the time... I just let it go' She was too uninformed and aging to bother with it anymore. I loved her anyway (as much as she would let me) and moved on. She did what she thought was best, and to the best of her ability as a parent.

Oddly, her and my father's twisted views of conservative government and weird conspiracy theories have been a lesson for me to "look into things more thorougly"........which leads me to do the same thing today....which keeps me in the liberal party/movement. LOL :7

[ncteechur]

99. I'm 38 and a liberal...

I was more conservative coming out of high school before I started thinking for myself and not just adopting my parents views. I am in the struggle to change my mom and dad and my mother-in-law. They all say they are voting for Bush but I don't really think they know why.

In fact, I don't think many of Bush's supporters know why they are voting for him. They can't name good reasons when pressed.

My mother-in-law doesn't like it when my 5-year old says he likes John Kerry--she says I've brainwashed him. I have not but I told him that I thought Joh Kerry would be a better president.

What reasons have you all encountered from Bushies?

[union_maid]

100. I'm in my fifties

Is that long enough? If not, my mother is in her eighties and as liberal as ever if not more so. It's not about age.

[Clyde39]

101. I've never been as liberal as I am now...........I'm 65

Every time we have a Republican administration, things get worse, and yet people still like them........such a mystery!!!

[Cha]

104. How can you be "anti-American" because you look

out for People's rights like the ACLU?

And what about clarence freakin' thomas, and scalia..they are the judges who are selling America down the River?