Welcome to Defeatist Underground

[NWHarkness]

I attended my local Democratic Club meeting this evening. Everyone was fired up from the convention and eager to work hard for victory in November. Lots of people had great suggestions, taking voter registration forms to the coffeehouses, flyering at the art fair, organizing canvassing drives. There was great energy in the room. And why not? Kerry got a good bounce in the Newsweek poll, and moved up in Zogby and Rasmussen. Every analyst, even the Republicans, was saying we had a great convention.

Then I came home and read DU. And found out that, in fact, we were doomed, that we couldn't win, that Kerry was blowing it.

All because one poll, which was issued by a media outlet we know is untrustworthy, and which the pollsters itself have admitted skepticism about, says that Kerry got no bounce.

Defeatism is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Do we want to win or do we want to whine?

[AngryLizard]

1. What, we can't do both??

Okay then: I choose WIN!!!!

[jadedcherub]

2. ...uh...

I have a special place in my heart for whining, myself. But I'd also like to win.

Could I, perhaps, do both?

[jadedcherub]

3. ...uh...

I have a special place in my heart for whining, myself. But I'd also like to win.

Could I, perhaps, do both?

[Beware the Beast Man]

4. Win!

I think what a number of DUers understand, but just can't shake, is that those polls are complete and utter BULLSHIT. If I recall correctly, MSNBC reported an 8-point bounce for Kerry after the conventions. So polls are a bunch of hooey.

[jadedcherub]

5. Hear hear! :)

Here, Here?

[Zomby Woof]

6. you are correct

I was riding high because of the convention, but coming on here just makes me cranky.

I think I need a break from DU. The whiny malcontents piss away lots of energy and momentum.

[bpilgrim]

8. malcontent

every du poster i thought fell under that description :evilgrin:

peace

[Swamp Rat]

25. "Bodily fluids"

General Jack D. Ripper

[Blue_Roses]

11. ditto

"I was riding high because of the convention, but coming on here just makes me cranky."

[Jack Rabbit]

7. Agreed

Gallup has always had a higher %age for Bush. It's been a lot easier to think that Gallup is out step, rahter than being the only one in step.

Kerry will win the popular vote about 54-44-2.

[bpilgrim]

9. gore won the popular vote by over 1/2 MILLION votes

yet they still stole it PLUS BBV

color me worried :scared:

peace

[Jack Rabbit]

13. Okay, worry

If the last polls before the election give Kerry a comfortable lead and Bush wins because he carries the vote more heavily than expected in precincts with BBV/no paper trail, what are you going to think? I know what I'm going to think.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. People around here have a tendency to overreact.

[havocmom]

18. I was thinking there was a lot of panic disorder working around here

and it is annoying as hell. What is with all the 'woe is me' and hand wringing? Are there some Rove plants around here today?

Keep telling them the junta is getting desperate when they make people sign pledges of support to be allowed the (dubious) privilege of seeing the vice president. And since the junta admits to telling the same lie over and over in hopes people believe it, anything they keep saying (like Kerry is slipping, no bump from the convention and so on) is a lie they hope people will fall for.

Well, the junta's is wrong. We are gonna win and we are gonna do it honestly, unlike the way they work.

But, can we get a crop duster in DU to hose people down with some Xanax? Or do we just need to put decaf in the DU coffee maker? man, what a stampede of nervous Nellies today.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. Well, your post (other than the subject line) was a good start

Stick around and send some good news out & thus do double good duty.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Most of us want to win...

and we know we will.

The whiners have more time at their keyboards, and ignoring them is the best option.

There are also the born pessimists who run and hide under their beds at the slightest hint of bad news. They are also best ignored.

[Bluebear]

17. With all due respect....

'There are also the born pessimists who run and hide under their beds at the slightest hint of bad news. They are also best ignored.'

May I suggest that everyone gets discouraged now and then, maybe instead of ignoring them you might lift them up...heaven knows the way the media paints things it's easy to get down in the dumps time to time :)

[enigmatic]

22. I think the problem is...

that those who constantly look at the glass as half empty are much more aggresive (in a passive aggressive way)in their thoughts than a half-full person, and it wears them down.

It bothers me, too; becoming defeatist at every new poll, news slant, and RW radio crank is doing nobody any good. I understand about having those emotions, but they need to be turned into energy focused on getting Kerry elected. That's the number one priority right now..

[TreasonousBastard]

32. Yes, but...

there's a difference between the constant whiners and those who are having a bad day.

Agreed that it's not always easy to tell the difference, but if it's getting you down too, one way or the other, best to just pass on by and head for the cheerier news.

Don't let the pessimism become infective.

[Bluebear]

33. I understand your points

There is momentum, there is hope, and I intend to help get Kerry elected. I refuse to let polls influence me. I _do_ wish there were one media source that didn't seem in bed with * though!

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redstateblues]

19. Black Is White - Up Is Down- Lies are Truth

[redstateblues]

20. Just saw My First Deleted message before it got nuked!

[Osama_Bin_Winnin]

16. Denying reality is a kinda republican thing isn't it.

[Nevernose]

21. For what it's worth, I ain't been this optimistic in YEARS

Not since Clinton in '92. Sure, all sorts of things can happen: they'll mysteriously produce OBL, mysterious events will occur at the ballot machines, mysterious "revelations" about Kerry will be unfurled...

And I, for one, am still damned optimistic.

I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm volunteering now, writing letters, and urging swing voters to vote for Kerry...I've done everything in my power I know how to do, Kerry is the better candidate...what more could I hope for? What more could I want?

On a more pragmatic note: a lot of folks here ARE pessimistic, and with good reason. And that's okay, because I'm totally confidant in Kerry/Edwards and know, in my heart, that we will win. Doesn't get to me -- don't let it get to you.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. The whining is definitely getting VERY old. Had a belly-full today.

[madfloridian]

24. I agree on the defeatism. And the fixation on the polls.

I fully believe polls can be manipulated.

[ronabop]

26. Aren't democrats smart enough...

...to spot a vacuous false-dilemma question when they see one?

It's not like rethugs toss them at us constantly.

-Bop

[Swamp Rat]

27. Well, I feel pretty damn good about this last week.

I don't think DU is more sullen or melancholy than usual. Lots of folks are very happy... didn't you see EarlG's pics?

[Pachamama]

37. I was so happy on Friday, I was bouncing....

Hi Swamp'r! Yeah, I'm just getting fired up....the predictable "Terra Alerts" have only energized me to battle the Fascist Regime....

Not going to let them send us into Fear....

[Swamp Rat]

38. Lots of us were bouncing... I still am!

:bounce: Weeeee!

Geaux Kerry!

[WillyT]

28. Oh Hell Man !!! - We're Gonna Kick Chimpy's Ass From Here To Crawford !!!

WillyT says, "Bet on it!!!"

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

How do you like them optimistic apples, LOL!!!

:hi:

[kaitykaity]

29. "We"? Who's "we"?

Don't lump all DUers in with a small group.
It's impolite.

[izzie]

30. Oh I think Kerry can win. We seem to have 2 sets of die hearts -------

voting for their man. Who is the largest group? It is the few who are not sure I guess we have to worry about. I really liked Dean for going for that base. I wish Kerry was a little more anti-war but Am. Seem to like war in all the parties. I just do not see this terrorist thing as war. Not war as we knew it. Bush turning us into a police state is to much for me.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. Maintain Focus. Only poll that counts is November

Maintain focus. The only poll that counts is the election in November or whenever it will be held. Until then, polls of varying reliability will be up and down and all over the map.

Most polls are meaningless. They mostly measure overall popular vote, and 2000 taught us how flawed that simplistic measure is when dealing with power politics.

Until November, polls are a horse-race distraction.

The focus is getting out the Democrat vote, convincing the swing vote, and eating away at BushCo's base of true conservatives who are pissed off at Ashcroft-Bush-Cheney Patriot Act abuses, BushCo rape of the environment, and Republic of Halliburton foreign adventurism in Iraq.

[Lerkfish]

34. I'm a world class worrier..but that's just..

..the way I approach things. I like to hope for the best but still be ready to deal with bad stuff as it happens. If I can look forward and identify bad stuff, I can better deal with it.

I know I'm probably not who the originating poster was referring to, but I do feel the need to say that you can't force people to be optimistic. You CAN, however, by example, pull them up to your level of optimism. But the danger is being pessimistic about pessimism, which is its own negative spiral.

In other words, whining about whining only increases the level of whining, in my experience. Better to continue your own positive message and let that raise the level of the surrounding posts.

IMHO.

also, IMHO, polls are at best worthless, and at worst, misleading. One shouldn't give them TOO much weight when they lean in your favor because then the floor will fallout from under you when they don't. Best to just accept them as very generalized indicators that you ignore as you continue to do what you think is right.

[booley]

35. First off, DU isn't running for President

so our attitude isn't quite as improtant as you make it out to be. when Kerry /edwards have a defeatist attitude, we shoudl worry.

Secondly, there is a difference between being willing to work & fight as opposed to being pollyannyish and taking winning for granted.

Not all the criticism has been contrsuctive but a lot of it has. And what's wrong with pointing out that Shrub cheats? he does. he and his cronies have done it before. Shouldn't we be worried about this?

[Pachamama]

36. NO WAY COACH! WE ARE READY TO FIGHT! (Thx for the kick in the Arsh)

Yeah, I know, it might seem like some of us are sounding defeatist, not me...I'm so energized after last week, my brain can't stop hurting from all the ideas blasting in my head....

I'm just pissed that the MotherF*ckers are pulling the predictable sh*t that they are (sorry, my lockerroom talk) and if anything its just pissing me off all the more to be the proud patriot I am to save my country from fascism....

John Kerry is my Commander Chief and this Pachamama is ready to report for duty....

:hi:

[LibertyorDeath]

39. This site is loaded to the fucking gunnel's with stealth freeps

Some of the more erudite but still emotionally retarded ones

post negative shit all the time have you seen this thread from FR

look at what Faux is saying

look at this poll by a known shit gop polling group

They post endless SHIT about Rightwing retarded points all

in an brave effort to keep tabs on what these Limpball loving fucktards are up to "they claim."

After 2 years of surfing here Daily IMO

Straight up

This site is loaded to the fucking gunnel's with stealth freeps.