Bush Using Drugs to Control Depression, Erratic Behavior

[Bombtrack]

By TERESA HAMPTON
Editor, Capitol Hill Blue
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

President George W. Bush is taking powerful anti-depressant drugs to control his erratic behavior, depression and paranoia, Capitol Hill Blue has learned.

The prescription drugs, administered by Col. Richard J. Tubb, the White House physician, can impair the President’s mental faculties and decrease both his physical capabilities and his ability to respond to a crisis, administration aides admit privately.

“It’s a double-edged sword,” says one aide. “We can’t have him flying off the handle at the slightest provocation but we also need a President who is alert mentally.” ...<snipped>...
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4921.shtml

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. OK, DU Psych Wonks...

If this is true, what is he taking? SSRIs? Depakote? Haldol? Seroquel? Clozaril? Zyprexa?

[Ouabache]

3. Another thread said he was taking Epilepsy medications too

He does seem to fall down a lot and land on his face, which is not a typical fall. Some of the post-seizure meds can put you out for a few hours too. I think the 'mountain-biker prezident' could be a cover for unepected falls due to grand mal epilepsy? Nothing against epileptics but severe cases can have an effect on 'normal' functions that we should be able to expect from a white house resident. Maybe he is medically not 'fit' enough to be president?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. Pretzel Incident was Epileptic Fit?

Hmm, I never made the connection till now (not that there necessarily is a connection), but perhaps the infamous pretzel incident where he bumped his head on a coffee table and may have knocked himself out for a bit, may have been an epileptic fit, even though he blamed it on a pretzel at the time.

[RobertSeattle]

2. Been posted multiple times

Here's the longest thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=712979

261 replies!

[napi21]

4. I keep looking for other source on this and haven't found any!

You have no idea how much I would like this to be true, but I can't accept this single source.

If anyone out there (better at finding info than I am) can find some other ligit sources, PLEASE post them.

[wtmusic]

7. Don't bother--CHB is worthless

CHB = FreeRepublic for Dems.

What's the point?

[DaveFL99]

14. Look down below. I've posted some links or just google 'bush brain damage'

[merh]

16. Check this site out.

You might find it interesting.
http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g43.htm

[Q]

46. Keep in mind that 'Watergate' was a 'single source' at first...

...!

[DaveFL99]

5. I've spent a lot of time searching the net on this one.

I'm proud to say I started a long time ago. There is definitely something seriously wrong with this guy but I think it's organic more than psychological.

When non-partisan medical sites recognize the symptoms it's definitely an issue that should be in the press.

These two are from sites dealing with polio and while that may not be the problem I think they're onto something with the brain damage assesment.


http://canparaplegic.org/national/level2.tpl?var1=story&var2=20020115175628


http://www.wnydf.bfn.org/reference/journals/polio/polio02.mar.html

[lil-petunia]

6. Dah, we KNOW he is brain damaged.

Anyone who hears voices and believes that it is god, well, shouldn't that scare people a tad more?

[Nashyra]

8. We should get it out there

They are using the terror alerts for political purposes why can't we use the fact that he is a dry drunk and we need to make sure about these rumors because he has lied and omitted so many important things. This needs to be explained, just like his AWOL. I hope it makes the main stream. He deserves it.

[DaveFL99]

9. I'm glad you brought that up

Spiritual visions are frequently associated with temporal lobe epilepsy.

Hey, everybody knows he has brain damage. I want to know the specifics.

I think it's a topic for the Discovery Channel, "Bush's Brain". It's a shame the title was already used.


http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/traits.htm

http://www.science-spirit.org/articles/Articledetail.cfm?article_ID=130

[DBoon]

20. Like they said about Pinochet

He was supposedly mentally unfit to stand trial. "Of course, someone who murders people and dumps their bodies in the sea is mentally unift"

[HuckleB]

10. A baker's dozen dupe.

I'll post my stigma links in hope that it will lead to a more constructive discussion:

Considerations on the Stigma of Mental Illness
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/guesteditorial.asp

"Stigma, prejudice, and discrimination are closely related and tightly interwoven social constructs. These constructs affect many, based on age, religion, ethnic origin, or socio- economic status. However, a person can potentially move out of these groups, if not physically—as in age or ethnic background—then by moving up the social ladder, which makes the affected person less of a target. Conversely, stigma, prejudice, and discrimination against those with mental illness cut across all classes and social groups, and, to the extent that many mental conditions are chronic and incapacitating, those affected can hardly migrate out of the grip of negative social attitudes. The result is social annihilation that constricts the lives of those with mental illness, preventing them from fully reengaging in their communities and participating in the social activities of their groups of reference.

The general public most frequently makes contact with mental illness through the media or the movies. Unfortunately, the media often depict patients as unpredictable, violent, and dangerous (1), and movies usually follow the popular “psycho- killer” plot (2) long exploited by the cinematographic industry. Associating mental illness with violence helps to perpetuate stigmatizing and discriminatory practices against mentally ill persons; it is only one of many negative stereotypes and common prejudicial attitudes about them.

...

Prejudice often stems from ignorance or unwillingness to find the truth. For example, a study conducted by the Ontario Division of the Canadian Mental Health Association in 1993–1994 found that the most prevalent misconceptions about mental illness include the belief that mental patients are dangerous and violent (88%); that they have a low IQ or are developmentally handicapped (40%); that they cannot function, hold a job, or have anything to contribute (32%); that they lack willpower or are weak and lazy (24%); that they are unpredictable (20%); and finally, that they are to be blamed for their own condition and should just “shape up” (20%) (17). Similarly, a survey among first-year university students in the US found that almost two-thirds believed “multiple personalities” to be a common symptom of schizophrenia, and a poll among the general public found that 55% did not believe that mental illness exists, with only 1% acknowledging that mental illness is a major health problem (18). Some of these myths also surfaced in a study conducted in Calgary during the pilot phase of the World Psychiatric Association (WPA) project Open the Doors (19). Respondents to this study believed that persons with schizophrenia cannot work in regular jobs (72%), have a split personality (47%), and are dangerous to the public because of violent behaviour (14%) (20).

...

Sensational media reports (24,25) reinforce beliefs instilled by movies that depict mental health patients as “uncontrollable killers.” Relatives of the mentally ill assert that the way they are depicted in movies is the most important contributor to stigmatization (26). Movies have stigmatized not only those with mental illness but also psychiatrists, often extending negative stereotypes to portray them as libidinous lechers, eccentric buffoons, and evil-minded, vindictive, and repressive agents of the social system—and in the case of female psychiatrists, as loveless and sexually unfulfilled (27)."

----------

For further reading on the papers brought up in this editorial, see:

Stigma and the Daily News: Evaluation of a Newspaper Intervention
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/stuart.asp

Interventions to Reduce the Stigma Associated With Severe Mental Illness
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/gaebel.asp

Determinants of the Public’s Preference for Social Distance From People With Schizophrenia
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/angermeyer.asp

Also, see...

TEN THINGS YOU CAN DO TO FIGHT STIGMA
http://www.naminys.org/factsheets.htm

"3. WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE. Most of us, including mental health professionals and mental health consumers, use terms and expressions related to mental illness that may perpetuate stigma. We use psychiatric labels to disparage, such as when we complain about aggressive drivers and call them "nuts" and "lunatics." We also depersonalize sufferers of mental illness by referring to them generically as "the mentally ill" or as "a schizophrenic." We can avoid contributing to stigma by avoiding such language and by using People First language to refer to individuals with psychiatric disorders.

4. MONITOR MEDIA AND REPORT STIGMATIZING MATERIAL to any of a number of organizations. The National Stigma Clearinghouse, the National Mental Health Association, and the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill protest such material by contacting the people -- authors, editors, movie producers, advertisers -- responsible for the material.

5. RESPOND TO STIGMATIZING MATERIAL IN THE MEDIA. Write, call, or e-mail stigmatizers yourself, expressing your concerns and providing more accurate information that they can use. The organizations mentioned above can help you figure out who to contact."

[DaveFL99]

11. Not trying to attach a stigma here

just trying to diagnose the problem. Or shouldn't I call it a problem when the President of the US, the man with his finger on the button, is brain damaged.

[HuckleB]

12. Just how did you make that diagnosis?

These threads have been noted for some very ugly and stigmatizing comments. Further, diagnosis from afar is absolutely worthless. Yes, we all despise and hate the actions of this man, and we all wonder why he does what he does and how he could act in such a way. However, we must be careful not to go down to his level, especially if that means stigmatizing our fellow citizens to do so.

Umm. So, what do you mean by brain damage, anyway?

[DaveFL99]

13. What do I mean by brain damage

Well there are the speach problems, the falling on his face, the passing out from eating a pretzel, the attention problems (watch him on television when anyone else is speaking or read over transcripts of his press conferences) and of course his believing that god told him to invade Iraq. those all seem to point to some form of brain damage.

I'm not going to type everything in, just google "Bush brain damage" or "Bush pretzel brain damage" and you can read all about it.

[HuckleB]

15. Ah, so Internet conspiracy is the basis for the diagnosis.

Interesting. Sorry, but I'll pass.

[DaveFL99]

17. Internet conspiracy ?

Do you think polio survivors are involved in an internet conspiracy ?

When non partisan sites are posting I really don't see a conspiracy.

Funny, you're the first person I've ever seen imply that Bush isn't brain damaged. The argument is usually about the exact cause of the damage.

[HuckleB]

23. I'm not implying anything.

Please find me a reliable, non-partisan site that has actual access to information to back up your claim. You cannot make such a diagnosis from afar. That is malpractice at best.

[DaveFL99]

31. Can't be malpractice

I'm not a doctor. Trying to figure out exactly waht's wrong with Bush is just my hobby.

Scroll up to the sites I listed earlier.

[HuckleB]

32. In other words, you've got no training in such assessment.

So you've got no dog to hunt in this matter.

[DaveFL99]

38. No dog in this hunt ?

You're hillarious.

Everyone has 'a dog in this hunt'. Our President is showing signs of brain damage. Signs that are so severe they're evident to those of us without formal training. I'm trying to find out more about the specifics of Bush's problems.

Are you telling us that someone with such obvious impairments is qualified to be President ?

If I see someone stumbling in the street and babbling incoherently am I to assume that thy are perfectly normal because I don't have formal training in diagnostics ?

Please share your background with me. What is your experience with mental illness ?

[HuckleB]

40. This is classic conspiracy theory stuff.

It's no different than the RW crap about Clinton murders and what have you.

I am a Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner. In Oregon, that means I have full prescription privileges, hospitalization privileges and insurance privileges. I have worked in a number of roles in mental health for more than fifteen years, including with a number of clients suffering from TBI and shaken baby syndrome, not to mention fetal drug and alcohol effects. I know this area very well, and I know that no one can diagnose from afar. The details, the long history, everything needed to make a true assessment is missing. It's actually quite disturbing to see so many people jump on this without a shred of actual proof beyond a slight behavior here or there.

Haven't we learned from what was done to Clinton?

[DaveFL99]

41. Thank You.

those are impressive credentials and I can understand why you are protective of people with mental illness but given your experience don't you see evidence of problems with Bush ? I'm not talking about a psychiatric illness but overt symptoms of physical damage or epilepsy or early signs of Alzheimers ?

It is clear to a layman that Bush has some sort of impairment and I'd like to know more about the specifics. He is a public figure and his cognative ability is an issue that effects the world.

[HuckleB]

42. I won't jump to conclusions.

The "evidence" is incredibly scant. Theorizing about the possibility of something going on may be fun, and theorizing about what may be going on may be even more fun. However, I wouldn't do that to my patients, and I won't do that to public figures.

Gotta go.

[DaveFL99]

45. I told you it's my hobby

hobbies are meant to be fun

[HuckleB]

49. So then this convesation belongs in The Lounge, no?

[DaveFL99]

50. No

It's a constructive hobby. One I'm proud of and want to share with everyone.

[HuckleB]

51. Gardening is also a constructive hobby.

And most gardeners are very proud of their work, but they have to discuss it in The Lounge.

[DaveFL99]

52. Since this involves Bush

I'll be keeping the topic in here.

I'm sorry if it stigmatizes the mentally ill to be associated with him but I will keep updating DU with what I find. I wonder if any neurologists have had anything to say about him yet.

[HuckleB]

54. If they do say anything without actually seeing the patient personally...

it would be malpractice, as I pointed out earlier. No health care professional worth anything should be making public comments about possible diagnoses for any public figure. It's irresponsible and impossible to do with any basis of clinical justifiability. It puts supposed professionally-based information into the public realm, even though that information holds no water with any decent clinician.

Perhaps you should ask DU for a conspiracy theory forum. That's where this topic should go.

As for your comment about stigmatization. Clearly you haven't read what I posted, as you clearly don't understand the issues around it.

Goodbye.

[SonofMass]

30. What is a speach?

[DaveFL99]

33. Ah the grammar police have arrived.

Please step over here to the aisle marked irrelevant.

[kwolf68]

18. Holy cow

What next with this guy?

[Mr.Green93]

19. should anyone who takes those kind of drugs be trusted?

[HuckleB]

22. What "kind of drugs" do you speak of?

[Mr.Green93]

25. "powerful anti-depressant drugs"

[HuckleB]

26. Last I checked, that's not a class of drugs.

I'd like more specifics. Do you have them?

[Mr.Green93]

27. see the article at the top of the page

[HuckleB]

28. You mean the article that began this thread?

I've read it. What's that got to do with it? Yeah, you quoted the article. That doesn't mean that the article's use of the term is valid. What drugs are you talking about? What drugs does the article refer to? Uh, oh yeah, none. It's all hearsay. And the use of the "powerful" to describe drugs that he is supposedly taking is incredibly subjective and meaningless.

So, again, what class of drugs are you talking about?

[goclark]

21. Bush is NUTS and DANGEROUS!

It does not take a clinical diagnosis to know he is NUTS and he is a daily accident waiting to happen!

What is wrong with stating what anyone can see?

Why do we as Democrats have to have absolute proof that he is NUTS.

The Goat VIDEO is enough for anyone to see.

Let's spread it big time.

[HuckleB]

24. Dangerous, yes. As for the rest of your assessment, please read.

Considerations on the Stigma of Mental Illness
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/guesteditorial.asp

"Stigma, prejudice, and discrimination are closely related and tightly interwoven social constructs. These constructs affect many, based on age, religion, ethnic origin, or socio- economic status. However, a person can potentially move out of these groups, if not physically—as in age or ethnic background—then by moving up the social ladder, which makes the affected person less of a target. Conversely, stigma, prejudice, and discrimination against those with mental illness cut across all classes and social groups, and, to the extent that many mental conditions are chronic and incapacitating, those affected can hardly migrate out of the grip of negative social attitudes. The result is social annihilation that constricts the lives of those with mental illness, preventing them from fully reengaging in their communities and participating in the social activities of their groups of reference.

The general public most frequently makes contact with mental illness through the media or the movies. Unfortunately, the media often depict patients as unpredictable, violent, and dangerous (1), and movies usually follow the popular “psycho- killer” plot (2) long exploited by the cinematographic industry. Associating mental illness with violence helps to perpetuate stigmatizing and discriminatory practices against mentally ill persons; it is only one of many negative stereotypes and common prejudicial attitudes about them.

...

Prejudice often stems from ignorance or unwillingness to find the truth. For example, a study conducted by the Ontario Division of the Canadian Mental Health Association in 1993–1994 found that the most prevalent misconceptions about mental illness include the belief that mental patients are dangerous and violent (88%); that they have a low IQ or are developmentally handicapped (40%); that they cannot function, hold a job, or have anything to contribute (32%); that they lack willpower or are weak and lazy (24%); that they are unpredictable (20%); and finally, that they are to be blamed for their own condition and should just “shape up” (20%) (17). Similarly, a survey among first-year university students in the US found that almost two-thirds believed “multiple personalities” to be a common symptom of schizophrenia, and a poll among the general public found that 55% did not believe that mental illness exists, with only 1% acknowledging that mental illness is a major health problem (18). Some of these myths also surfaced in a study conducted in Calgary during the pilot phase of the World Psychiatric Association (WPA) project Open the Doors (19). Respondents to this study believed that persons with schizophrenia cannot work in regular jobs (72%), have a split personality (47%), and are dangerous to the public because of violent behaviour (14%) (20).

...

Sensational media reports (24,25) reinforce beliefs instilled by movies that depict mental health patients as “uncontrollable killers.” Relatives of the mentally ill assert that the way they are depicted in movies is the most important contributor to stigmatization (26). Movies have stigmatized not only those with mental illness but also psychiatrists, often extending negative stereotypes to portray them as libidinous lechers, eccentric buffoons, and evil-minded, vindictive, and repressive agents of the social system—and in the case of female psychiatrists, as loveless and sexually unfulfilled (27)."

----------

For further reading on the papers brought up in this editorial, see:

Stigma and the Daily News: Evaluation of a Newspaper Intervention
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/stuart.asp

Interventions to Reduce the Stigma Associated With Severe Mental Illness
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/gaebel.asp

Determinants of the Public’s Preference for Social Distance From People With Schizophrenia
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/november/angermeyer.asp

Also, see...

TEN THINGS YOU CAN DO TO FIGHT STIGMA
http://www.naminys.org/factsheets.htm

"3. WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE. Most of us, including mental health professionals and mental health consumers, use terms and expressions related to mental illness that may perpetuate stigma. We use psychiatric labels to disparage, such as when we complain about aggressive drivers and call them "nuts" and "lunatics." We also depersonalize sufferers of mental illness by referring to them generically as "the mentally ill" or as "a schizophrenic." We can avoid contributing to stigma by avoiding such language and by using People First language to refer to individuals with psychiatric disorders.

4. MONITOR MEDIA AND REPORT STIGMATIZING MATERIAL to any of a number of organizations. The National Stigma Clearinghouse, the National Mental Health Association, and the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill protest such material by contacting the people -- authors, editors, movie producers, advertisers -- responsible for the material.

5. RESPOND TO STIGMATIZING MATERIAL IN THE MEDIA. Write, call, or e-mail stigmatizers yourself, expressing your concerns and providing more accurate information that they can use. The organizations mentioned above can help you figure out who to contact."

[goclark]

29. In No Way Do I want to put a stigma on the mentally ill

However, this country has an unstable person at the helm. Maybe we can think of a PC word for someone that reacts as Bush does. But when I think of Bush I am not trying in any way to put down the mentally ill. I have a member of my own family that suffers from a mental illness.

My relative is NOT however the PRESIDENT of the United States. Bush is and I feel that we are not doing our duty as citizens if we don't let the world know what can be clearly seen from photes, press conferences etc. etc. etc.

[HuckleB]

34. Using terms...

such as "Nuts" without thinking about what's behind them is stigmatizing, no matter who you are using them to describe. No one needs to go PC, but we certainly can use the actual clinical terms rather than pejoratives like "Nuts."

Thank you very much for considering my post.

[DaveFL99]

35. Is it stigmatizing to suggest

that Bush was dropped on his head as a child ?

[HuckleB]

36. It could be, but...

..why make such a claim when there's no evidence of it, in the first place? Any behaviors noted that might indicate that he was are also behaviors noted for a myriad of other reasons, so it's just nonsense to even theorize about it. In other words, it really shouldn't be an issue.

Nonetheless, while it is certainly a minor affront compared to the more obvious pejoratives, the loose use of such conspiracies does make light of those who live with Traumatic Brain Injuries, not to mention their families and caretakers.

[DaveFL99]

43. I agree with everything you say here except that statement that it isn't

an issue. It is a serious issue. The world is affected by the President's cognative abilities and judgement.

[HuckleB]

48. You have no evidence.

Thus, you have no issue. Thus, it's not serious. Nevermind the frivolous ways that such comments are tossed about in the first place, which was the core of my point.

[tigereye]

57. well he does make terrible decisions

and has bad advisors, and I agree that he is probably dangerous from a structural standpoint, but that doesn't mean he is diagnosable, as in a mental or other illness, per se. He does appear at least from what I have seen on TV to possibly have some type of speech problem, which could be neurological. His father also appeared to have some type of speech problem. But none of us can really know that since we are not his physicians, speech clinicians or neurologists. Also many of the population take anti-depressants, and this is not necessarily grounds for someone not to be in office, although if true, it could point to clues about his mental state and the stresses of the office.

[MrBenchley]

37. Good news...

He's using professionally blended pharmaceuticals now instead of the amateur ones he spend to smany years putting up his nose!

Can't wait until somebody asks Press Secretary McClellan about this one: "So, Scott, how toasted is the president today?"

[Pallas180]

39. Maybe Rush is lending his some oxycontin

:bounce:

[MrBenchley]

44. Today's White House schedule...The president will be ripped to the tits...

...when he discusses trade and the EU with the prime minister of Belgium, then he'll be giggly but coming down slightly for a ceremony in the Rose Garden with Eagle Scouts from around the country, and this afternoon he meets with the cabinet who will try to talk him out from under the table. Any questions?

Q: Scott, does he have a problem with the munchies?

[onethatcares]

53. I've always liked that saying,

ripped to the tits, it has a certain rhyme to it. Can you see dickless and * sitting around poppin pills, smokin doobs, munchin out. Wonder what music they'd have on? The theme from Apocolypse(?)Now.

[Algorem]

47. These stories seem true to me because watching that press conference

today,his behavior and cabinut people's behavior fits in perfectly.The Cabinut members afraid to make any unnecessary movements and like they're praying the nut doesn't flip out.They just love their Bushmafia sycophant positions so much.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

55. If we could get hold of some Bush urine

we could get it to a lab to do a urinalysis. Probably wringing out Ann Coulter's hair would produce some Bush urine.