The Iraq war was not a 'PREEMPTIVE war'... so, STOP saying that!

[bpilgrim]

i expect the media to use it and the politicos but why do we on DU continue to use it :shrug:

this was a PREVENTIVE WAR and if we hope to have ANY chance of preventing future ones we had better get our terms STRAIGHT.

I call on all media folks who participate here on DU to start using the correct term when writing about iraq.

I think this is a VERY SERIOUS issue and is not a splitting hairs overreaction since this policy MUST be called out and DENOUNCED in the light of day before we could ever hope to see our allies TRUST US again.

remember this was the very same policy of IMPERIAL JAPAN and NAZI GERMANY of wwII infamy.

so, whaddaya say? can we commit to using this term instead of preemption.

(arg, i feel like newt)

but check out what chomsky has to say on the topic here...
Chomsky: Preventive War 'the Supreme Crime'
Iraq: invasion that will live in infamy
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=40&ItemID=4030

aight... so do we have a deal?

peace

[sangh0]

1. Thank you

for helping to end the confusion between preventive and pre-emptive war.

[bpilgrim]

2. no worries

chomsky though deserves all the credit ;-)

:hi:

peace

[KittyWampus]

3. It's Hopeless... The NeoCons Have Successfully Blurred The Terminology

and it's to their own benefit.

[bpilgrim]

5. hell no

the fight is ETERNAL

peace

[The Magistrate]

13. Well Said, Sir!

"The rectification of names" is the first need at all times, and the longest struggle of all....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Gregorian]

4. And I say, it was not a 'war'

It was an act of aggression. A means of obtaining power.

[bpilgrim]

6. well thats your right but a WAR is going on in iraq

and it was couched in the terms of PREVENTIVE WAR and it was JUSTIFIED :wow:

even our guys and gals apparently JUSTIFY it by going along with that CARTOON world view.

:hi:

peace

[Radio]

7. I have noticed this also.

Good call.

[Norquist Nemesis]

8. It was neither pre-emptive nor preventive.

It was optional.

[AlCzervik]

9. Bong Bong Bong

Exactly!

[bpilgrim]

10. NO - it was couched in PREVENTIVE LANGUAGE

iraq had the ABILITY and WILL to PRODUCE WMD if not right now then in the FUTURE.

that was the argument and THAT is what we went in on and it has been ENDORSED BY everybody :argh:

anyways...

if we don't challenge that DIRECTLY we will have very serious problems for years to come with our allies.

so WHEN are we going to start?

or is just a big historical joke now?

peace

[Norquist Nemesis]

23. So Challenge it!

Do so by checking the definitions of Pre-emptive and preventive. It was by CHOICE, not necessity. It should be framed as such.

[readmylips]

11. War of Luxury.....

to cover up bush was AWOL, expand the bush dynasty in the world, and to grab wealth and power for oil US companies.

[cthrumatrix]

17. a war of choice and greed.... who in the hell benefited?

[The Magistrate]

12. Indeed, Mr. Pilgrim

The thing was not a pre-emptive war, for that term describes a situation in which a state is at an advanced condition of preparing an attack on some other state, and the object of that impending attack strikes first. Such an action is wholly legal and justifiable.

The doctrine urged by the criminals of the '00 Coup is in fact preventative war, by which is meant attacking a state that might at some time in the future come to pose a threat to the United States. This is far too elastic a concept to be of practical use for anything but propaganda justifications for asn aggressively hued paranoia, a poor, though unfortunately common, guide to stte action.

The fact is that the attack on Iraq was not even really a preventative war: it was a war of acquisition, an aggression aimed at acquiring booty and slaves, in the grand old style of the pre-modern empires. In this, it is definitely similar to the actions of Imperial Japan and the Reich, which had at bottom no other motive for their wars, and is clearly a criminal action.

"They say war is an art, but it's not. It mostly consists of outwitting people, robbing widows and orphans, and inflicting suffering on the helpless for one's own ends, and that's not art: that's business!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[bpilgrim]

14. true

but we can only deal with the charecterization they use to make LEGAL such wars - remember everything the germany and japan done was LEGAL - even though we all know their real motives which will only allow you to play the token kook whenever it is uttered in the 'mainstream media'

so it is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT if we are to prevent our country from reaching the same fate other imerial powers met or WORSE.

good to see ya sir :toast:
i hope your computer wow get sorted out SOON - now when you get your mits on a mac give me a holler whenever you need help ;-)

peace

[The Magistrate]

15. The Mac It Was That Died, Sir

And a ghastly death it was....

Without meaning to set up a wrangle, the actions of of Imperial Japan and the Reich were not legal, but clear violations of the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928, at least by my reading of that document.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[bpilgrim]

16. d'oh!

sorry to hear about the mac.

my point being that from their own GOV POV it was legal and i fear the new legal architecture we are now constructing in our own country mirroring their disdain for international law since we all know where that led.

peace

[The Magistrate]

18. That Is True, Sir

From that point of view, not only legal, but viewed as a moral imperative, on which all goodness and decency was dependent....

"There is no lie so vile some politician will not tell it for votes, and some journalist will not circulate it for money."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[bpilgrim]

19. exactly

you know my views about our new slogans for bringing democracy and the ME it is errily simular to the GEACPS :argh:

peace

[bpilgrim]

20. no takers?

what, is it all in my head :shrug:

peace

[timtom]

21. I must take serious issue with you!!

This is NOT a war. This is an illegal invasion and occupation. It is cold-blooded murder. It is not a war! It is genocide. This atrocity MUST NOT be legitimized in any way.

[Q]

22. More to the point...it's 'aggressive war'...

...using the term 'preventative war' suggests there was a threat and war was needed to prevent it.