I don't like Kerry's answer to the war in Iraq.

[notbush]

I have posted this at least twice in the last 3 or 4 months and I don't get any.....(or many ) takers.
First let me tell you I was(am) a Deanie....
Because Dennis never had a chance.
JFK says he'll talk to our European alies and magically get them to commit troops to IRAQ.
BULL FUCKIN' SHIT.
France and Germany aren't going anywhere close to Iraq.
The public opinion in both France and Germany is so anti-Iraq war that it would insure the defeat of any F or G politico who felt otherwise.
Please John, don't think you can make me believe Germany, France and the U.N. are going to save us.
Just get us out NOW.

[sandnsea]

1. Your mind's made up

You don't want an answer. You think your way is the right way. You're entitled. Most people disagree with you. Unfortunately, letting Iraq fall isn't the same thing as letting Vietnam fall. We can't have a failed state in the middle of terrorist central.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[notbush]

7. Please refresh my memory...Newsmax....Me????

POST IT.

[Robbien]

10. yes, you. tonight. Check your posts

NewsMax and support of BushCo terror alerts.

[notbush]

14. I went back and checked.

WTF are you typing about?????ME....NEWSMAX????
Yea THAT'S A FLAME.
WTF??????

[WilliamPitt]

3. Sssshhhh...it's a secret...

...the only reason the international community didn't jump into Iraq in 2003 is because all the contracts - all those billions of dollars in 'rebuilding' money - went to firms out of Houston, ergo the international community doesn't get paid.

Kerry = opening the contracting for 'reconstruction' of Iraq to international corporations from France, Germany, Russia, etc. When the corporations go in for billion-dollar contracts, the armies of these nations will follow. Where the money goes, the army follows. It's as old as Caesar. Then we can cycle our kids home.

As cynical as you can get, yes. The only viable solution, yes.

Welcome to the machine.

[KharmaTrain]

5. What's So Ironic Is This Way We End Up Making More Money

Through globalization our economies intertwine closely with most of those "dreaded" European economies. Many portfolios now include Euros that have been earning higher interest than most other securities and American subsidiaries in these country and their subsidiaries here use dollars more than any other currency. This is what free trade is all about...or at least that's what I was taught.

Will, the anger at the closed bids and the Europeans being locked out of the Iraq reconstruction will hurt us for years to come as the companies that participated will become pariahs and decrease growth, not increase it. But then what do you expect from a corrupt party that when faced with a collapsing stock market rose tarrifs that destroyed whatever economy was left and lowered taxes on the rich in the midst of a "war".

I totally agree with your end-game here. We have diplomats like Holbrooke, Ross, Rubin and others who have extensive contacts and can get to work on Day One restoring old alliances and ties. If anything I think a Kerry victory would create a wave of international support not unlike what we saw after 9/11...as if we've just woken from a coma.

Cheers!

[John Q. Citizen]

4. There are a lot of problems

with leaving the Iraqis holding the bag, not least of which is if Kerry declared that as his policy he would lose the election and Bush would get another four years.

I know in your heart you believe that is the only right thing to do as policy vis a vis Iraq, but losing this election won't help to further your agenda.

What say you, notbush?

[physioex]

6. Hello and a belated Welcome to DU....eom

[physioex]

8. I am not going to argue this issue with you...

As far as I am concerned, we need to remove the Repug stranglehold on power. They control all three branches of the government, and they (and Democrats to a certain level) are responsible for getting us into this mess. I blame mostly the PNAC Neocons for most of our problems, and they are the craziest bunch of people around. I am also a an early Deaniac but I stand firm in my commitment to get rid of Shrub and fully support John Kerry for President.....

[Egnever]

9. Johns full of it

He will say anything or nothing to get elected. I am not the least bit convinced he will accomplish anything during his term if he gets it.

However!

Bush is a friggin criminal and has to go at all costs. The devestation he will leave behind if he is forced from office this election is allready stagering. There is no way in hell we can risk another four years of him, even if it means installing this pathetic excuse for a candidate we are stuck with to replace him.

I will be highly suprised if the dems regain control of the senate forget about the house. Even with bush gone we still have the likes of frist and delay to deal with. Not that I think kerry who voted for everything republican when he bothered to vote the last four years will be much of a bulwark against a republican controlled congress but at least he hopefully wont be a rubber stamp for thier antics.

Who knows I may be pleasantly suprised and he may actually grow a set after the election but I wont hold my breathe.

The latest dont bash bush fiasco at the convention was a pretty damn clear indication to me that this joker is never going to take bush to task for all of his missadventures.

At this point though I will be happy with bush gone and a do nothing president for a few years so I can at least stop worying what damage is being caused daily.

You are right though, no one is going to send troops into Iraq just caue kerry is elected however there is a terrorist network out there that still needs to be dealt with and hopefully wioth kerry in office we can at least get back to a climate of cooperation in the world instead of the contention we have now.

We are'nt getting out of Iraq in your lifetime might as well give up on that tired saw. However with a little cooperation from the outside world and a true focus on the terorists we might at least be able to guide it into some semblance of peacefullness. Where our troops arent in constant danger.

Do I think Kerry is the guiding light that will acomplish this not really but I do think he at least wont fuck it up as badly as bush has.

How could he?

[physioex]

20. It's easy to point fingers at politicians...

Have you considered the apathetic American public is largely to blame. Three years ago this country was not know for torture, rape, and murder. Not to mention an illegal and unnecessary war. Where was the American public? If this were to happen in Europe, heads would be rolling real quick. Is any of that happening around here?

[notbush]

11. I'm sorry, but I still don't see ANYBODY hopping

on the Iraq bandwagon......Call me names....call me a freeper.....just don't call me naive.
Our European friends are not strong enough politically to help us at this point........If things get really bad...maybe.
Both Germany and France have huge immigrant Muslim populations ......
Better think twice....or three times.

[Robbien]

12. So you recommend we all support BushCo?

[notbush]

15. You are REAL good at putting words in people's(my) mouth.

I can question JFK's word's without supporting BUSH.
Your attitude,may give Nader a few more votes.
I don't take my vote lightly.....
The enemy of my enemy is not always(maybe never) my friend.

[notbush]

17. Where is that NEWSMAX post I made????

Talkin' shit like that pisses me off.

[physioex]

13. As far as I am concerned,

There is money to rebuild Iraq. First the US has set up some funds, plus Wolfie was correct, Iraq can finance it's own rebuilding. The problem right now is the management. Halliburton has stole a large percentage of the no bid contracts while employing American citizens. Why aren't Iraqis being employed? They can drive trucks, do construction work, and work in oil fields. Making this simple change could also help us go furthur in improving the situation in Iraq. Have you considered the fact that we should try this first before we throw our hands in the air and claim that all hope is lost...

[shraby]

18. Meanwhile back at the ranch (USA)

I think Kerry has some scores to settle about Iran/Contra, BCCI and all the criminal things Bushco has done while in office, and I also think he will take care of it.
Also Delay is in trouble big-time about some money he got from Enron to help finance the redistricting he did, as well as some stuff he did in Washington D.C.

[physioex]

19. BFEE and PNAC has got to be to two most evil organizations...

Next to the Nazi party. It such a disgrace that the citizens of this country can be so apathetic. That's the real problem ....

[physioex]

16. Have you considered that states in the midwest and the south are...

Part of the problem. They are nothing but Republican stronghold. The towns are filled with wingnuts with a bomb them Arabs and hate all fags, and blacks viewpoint. No wonder the Republicans control all branches of government...

[notbush]

21. That attitude will sell well in the south, midwest. and nearwest.

I'm afraid we're gonna blow this election because "we're so smart,and smug" that we know what is truth and what is "not the truth".
Only WE hold the keys.....??????
Where's YOUR big tent.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Thanks for the welcome physioex

The Republicans control all three branches cause the left is constantly infighting, plus the Repos stole the last presidential election. Also Clinton screwed up being caught with his pants down. That hurt politically. Clinton won a lot of Midwest and Southern states in his two runs.

Also the Repos worked long and hard to set up think tanks, media outlets, and organize thier base. The left is playing catch up on all three areas.

Dean was right when he said the Demos need to activly court white gun owning working class good ol boys with PU trucks.

We won't get all of em but getting some of them would make a huge difference in the political lay of the land.

PS Dean was my first choice for the nomination but Kerry was my second choice. I'm perfectly comfortable with him. In many ways, Kerry is to the left of Dean on a lot of issues. I like Dean cause he is a straight talker and took on our naked emperor, but of course he had the luxery of not holding office at the time so he probably felt less constrained, kind of like Gore is now also.

PPS Dean doesn't advocate withdrawing the troops post haste (I'm addressing notbush here)

[physioex]

25. Yea I agree....

Good Nite.... :hi:

[freetobegay]

23. Even Dean could not get us out now!

:eyes:

[JSJ]

24. Out Now! Give Iraq back to the Iraqis, pronto n/t

[Disturbed]

26. Kerry/Iraq

Iraq may implode before Kerry/Edwards get sworn in. It is on the bring. People are leaving in droves. The PM there is really only the Mayor of some of Baghdad. If the US kills al Sadr the Shi'ite might hit the proverbial fan.

What Kerry could do is kick Haliburton out and some of the other Multi-Natls. that have been war profiteering and put Iraqis back to work. The Iraqis can re-build their own country. They did have a viable country before the invasion, ya know.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. And That Solves. . .?????

The country is now broken. If the true root cause of the Islamic world's dislike of America is a cavalier and heartless foreign policy, leaving Iraq in shambles corrects that, how?

It's too late to cut and run. That only exacerbates the animosity towards us.

Kerry has no choice. He needs another path than the one Idiot George has taken, but the path of least resistance, pulling out and going home, is no longer an option.

I'm MUCH less pessimistic that a good president could not get allies to put troops in a peacekeepers. I think the French and Germans would buy into that rather than be part of an invasion force. Those populations are not intractable and incapable of listening to reason. They are no more interested in a Middle East conflagration than any of us.

They object to Bush and the WAY we went to Iraq. Now, that it's broken, they could be persuaded to help repair it, but not by Bush and the criminal element. A more wise and humble approach, as espoused by Kerry, is something i believe they will accept.
The Professor