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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:20 PM
Original message
more right wing SPAM for you to vomit on...
Somehow I've started getting all the local repuke spam... here's the latest. I think I've seen this before, but I post it for your enjoyment. This is like a compendium of RW talking points. Enjoy



Worst president in history?

(The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor. Please forward to all on your list as this will put things in perspective:)

Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war.
They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history.

Let's clear up one point: President Bush didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.
Let's look at the worst president and mismanagement claims.

FDR led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
>From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of112,500 per year.

Trumanfinished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
>From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedystarted the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
Johnsonturned Vietnam into a quagmire.
>From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and
did nothing.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us,
President Bushhas liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida,
put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,
captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year.
Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at
home.

Worst president in history? Come on!

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...

It took less time to take Iraq
than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Dravidian compound.
That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time
than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy
the Medina Republican Guard
than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at
Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq
than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our military is GREAT! PASS IT ON.

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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. There was a long
thread on this one a few days ago. I've got it bookmarked but can't seem to be able to retrieve my bookmarks.

Maybe someone else can provide you with the link. If not I'll try to send it to you later.

MzPip
:dem:
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Pabst Blue Democrat Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmmm
I think we've all seen this one ripped to shreads before. The only new thing that I would have to add is in regards to the inspectors in Libya and N. Korea. Why is that so great? According to Bushco inspectors obviously were unable to get the job done in Iraq :eyes:
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democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. This has been debunked like 12 times already.

Can the DU set up our own "truth sqaud" forum strictly for debunking these right-wing mistruths. Complete with email address lists?

I would start with a search in Durham NC for this 'letter'. My money says no paper published this crap.
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Pabst Blue Democrat Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. hmmm
I think we've all seen this one ripped to shreads before. The only new thing that I would have to add is in regards to the inspectors in Libya and N. Korea. Why is that so great? According to Bushco inspectors obviously were unable to get the job done in Iraq :eyes
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DaveFL99 Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Test
post
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here's What I Replied When I Got It
I don't have time to debunk every single one of these things right now, but I will deal with just a handful of small points. If you want any of the other ones dealt with, just ask. I'll be happy to clear up any of these things for you.


There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

You're comparing 39 combat related killings in Iraq to 35 murders in Detroit. The problem with that is that you're choosing to only count AMERICANS that died. Since the war began last year, it is estimated that there have been over 13,000 civilian casualties. That boils down to over 850 casualties per month, and as violent as Detroit may be, there aren't 850 people dying there a month. But if for some reason you think that Iraqi civilian deaths aren't important, then consider that those 39 combat killings come from an American soldier population of about 130,000. If that is compared with Detroit's population of slightly under a million, that would be like if 269 people had been murdered in Detroit in January. You have to compare apples to oranges.


Liberated two countries.

That depends on your definition of "liberated". In Afghanistan, the capital city of Kabul is about the only place in the entire country that isn't under the control of warlords. Women still cannot go out in public without fear of being brutally attacked or worse. Children, particularly young girls, cannot go to school still. Hamid Karzai, the guy in charge, is owned by the United States and has almost no control over his own government. He is constantly the target of assassination attempts. The majority of the country remains an easy haven for terrorists, and we less troops in that entire country than we have police officers in just the Manhattan part of New York City. And Iraq -- It's still early to say exactly how effective the "new" government will have since we just turned it over a few weeks ago. Still, there are lots of places with no clean drinking water and no electricity -- places where those things existed before we attacked. And despite Iraq's faults, it was still one of the most open-minded Middle Eastern countries regarding women's rights. Not any more, with radical clerics gaining more and more clout. And obviously, most people do not feel "liberated" from the possibility that they will be killed in bomb blasts or other attacks at any moment.


Crushed the Taliban.

The Taliban continue to operate inside Afghanistan. One hour ago, two Afghan government officials and their driver were killed by Taliban fighters in Qalat. In the past year, the Taliban have attacked and killed over 800.

Crippled al-Qaeda.

Al-Qaeda continues to grow stronger, according to many reports -- partially because Iraq distracted US forces away from pursuing them, and partially because the invasion of Iraq served as a powerful tool to recruit people. Al-Qaeda is still so strong, in fact, that the United States Department of Homeland Security just issued another warning about their plans to attack the United States this summer.


Put Nuclear Inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North Korea Without Firing a Shot

Libya's decision to disarm was widely seen as an effort to allow it to enter European economic markets and ease pressure from the Lockerbie bombing. Iran and North Korea have both admitted to having nuclear programs and neither have announced any steps to disarm.


Captured a Terrorist Who Slaughtered 300,000 of His Own People

Over the course of two decades, much of that time while he was our ALLY against Iran, and some of it with weapons that WE gave him.

Okay, last one:


He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.

According to the Washington Post: "The Clinton administration struggled to find a way to accept the offer in secret contacts that stretched from a meeting at a Rosslyn hotel on March 3, 1996, to a fax that closed the door on the effort 10 weeks later. Unable to persuade the Saudis to accept bin Laden, and lacking a case to indict him in U.S. courts at the time, the Clinton administration finally gave up on the capture."

Clinton did not "do nothing" -- he wanted bin Laden. But at the time he was offered, the case against him was flimsy. He hadn't attacked Khobar Towers yet, he hadn't attacked the USS Cole, he hadn't attacked the World Trade Center or the Pentagon. The Saudis wouldn't accept the deal, so Sudan expelled bin Laden to Afghanistan, which is where he had lived when Reagan was giving him money, guns, and training to fight the Russians.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Great stuff! Thanks! /eom
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DebinTx Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. One more tidbit
about Clinton being offered OBL's head 3 times (just how many times is it now??) the 9-11 commission says it didn't happen.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. We debunk this one weekly here! My stab...
Let's see - this is all from my feeble memory.

a) History Lesson w/ timeline:
1) Japan bombs Pearl Harbor
2) In turn, US declares war on Japan
3) In turn, Japan's ally Germany declares war on the US.

b) Another history lesson
1) North Korea invaded our ally South Korea
2) US going there was sanctioned by the newly formed UN
3) US already had a small amount of troops stationed there - should we have abandoned them?

c) Ike was the first one to send 'advisors' to Vietnam, but both sides screwed that one up royally.

d) Bosnia, I believe, was a NATO sanctioned action where the US lost 0 soldiers. They also stopped proven, ongoing genocide, as opposed to genocide from 15-20 years ago in Iraq.

e) A businessman named Mansoor Ijaz (now a Fox News correspondent) reportedly came forward with an offer by the Sudan to turn bin Laden over to Saudi Arabia. US contacted Saudis, who did not want him. Mansoor also had no authority to speak on behalf of the Sudanese government, who likely had no ability to "get" bin Laden.

f) How has the Taliban been crushed? Karzai is referred to, sneeringly, as the Mayor of Kabul because the warlords control everything outside the city. He just had to beg the UN for more protection. Oh, and the opium trade is now the one growth industry in Afghanistan.

g) How has Iraq been liberated? They moved from one Islamic dictator to a corporate occupier who overcharges them for gas and has lost billions of dollars. Women, surprisingly liberated under Saddam, now have to wear Taliban-like burkas in certain areas of Iraq.

h) Negotiations with Libya had been ongoing for 10 years (that mean that, hmm, they started under, let me see.... Clinton?). Iran & North Korea have gotten more radical. Iran was actually making progress politically until the infamous "Axis of Evil" speech allowed the reactionary religious Ayatollahs to reclaim power. NK re-started their nuclear program when Bush made that speech as well.




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