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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:42 PM
Original message
My Response to Wing-nut E-Mail. Let me know what you think
Got the following e-mail from a distant nephew. Basically spammed me and a bunch of others with it and I could not resist responding. Here is what he sent.

"Kerry's stolen valor is an atrocity to all the
soldiers who have truly sacraficed. Never one day of
hospitalization. 3 purple hearts. I know most
veterans that have received one didn't have the chance
for a day of hospitalization.

http://www.socialistkerry.com /

do the math. 2 + 2 = ?
special education is in recess for the day."

My Response:

Dear XXXXXX,

I am an active duty Naval Officer who has dedicated more than 20 years of my life to defending this country. Since you seem to have such high esteem for the military, I hope that you will take the time to read what I have to say. You see, not only am I proudly serving my country, I also happen to be a proud Democrat, and a proud American. I am neither a socialist, communist, or atheist. Just a man who loves his country, and a man who is tired of getting these re-hashed, non-factual, right-wing "whacko" talking points in his e-mail. If I can't get you to open your eyes, or convince you to get your facts from someone other than a drug addled criminal like Rush Limbaugh, then please at least remove me from this e-mail tree.

You are wrong about John Kerry. In order to believe what you believe, you would have to be convinced that the military gives Purple Hearts to the undeserving, simply hands out Bronze Stars (our country's 5th highest award for valor) to whoever asks for one, and awards the Silver Star just like candy at Holloween. Since I know first hand that none of the above is correct, I urge you to go to johnkerry.com and read the PDF files of the actual citations. I'm afraid that if you did though, it might cloud your judgement about a man who answered his nation's call, and VOLUNTEERED for duty in Vietnam. By reading the actual citations, you might learn about a man who did not seek solice in a stateside National Guard Unit, or get 5 separate deferments because he "had other priorities". You might learn something about a man who VOLUNTEERED for one of the most dangerous duties in Vietnam. By attacking John Kerry, you are attacking every single man and woman who has volunteered to serve their country, or more importantly, "answered the call of their country".

I know of a perfect way that you, or anyone else of age you sent this e-mail to, can demonstrate your "obvious" love for the military and the country. If I had one in PDF, I would send it to you. It's an enlistment contract. These are available at your local recruiting stations. This way you could see first hand what it takes to earn a Purple Heart, Bronze Star and Silver Star. Please let me know your graduation date from boot camp and I will gladly attend.

You can disagree with John Kerry and the Democrats on lots of issues. However, the issue of his patriotism has been decided in blood.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. WELL DONE.
Somehow I doubt he'll have the balls to respond, but maybe - just maybe - you will have made him think for a minute or two.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. I hope you counterspammed every address in the original...
... it's a great reply, a terrific letter to circulate in and of itself.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. perfect
let us know if you get a response.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. wow, hope you hit "reply to all" on that one
and thanks for your service!
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Of Course
I hit "reply to all". Hunkered down in the bunker now waiting for the incoming
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. no need to "hunker" no one will dare
and you'll probably get some praise :toast:
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Keep us updated on the responses!!!
Great letter!!! :D
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Here's One and it is actually positive
I agree with you since i was in ww11, received the purple heart, bronze star and the silver star and i was only 19 years old and too young to vote. Bill

The kid wrote back and this is part of what he wrote.

"I have applied to officer school for the USAF was turned
down, on the ground since I have a business degree a
"non-techincal" degree, they have no need me. With
the college degrees obtained and my leadership I have
choosen to obtain and use mys skills in the civilian
world.

My nation has not called. I have no problem
if necessary even entering enlisted if they need me.
They have my contact information."

I've written him back to let him know he can VOLUNTEER just like Kerry.

He also wrote "

I know the military (have been familiar with it over
10 years)... he (John Kerry) worked the system, and
was there for himself. There for 4 months, his own
officers didn't like him and only one of his swift
boat crew support his canindacy today

He's seems realy confused
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. His nation's not going to call, either
Last I checked, Bush hadn't started conscripting guys yet.

Did you also let him know that lots and lots of Infantry officers have business degrees? Lots of Adjutant General and Finance officers have business degrees? But no, it's "I only wanna go in the AIR FORCE!"
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
31. confused
confused is right. Onl;y 1 of his swift boat crew supports him? I thought it was only 1 who did NOT! oye/
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Lestatdelc Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
39. Email this kid these facts
Edited on Sun Aug-08-04 01:07 PM by Lestatdelc
Here are the 10 crewmates who served with Kerry in Vietnam. All but Steve Gardner support John Kerry and stood with him as he made his speech to the DNC. (except Tom Belodeau who is deceased .

I'll let them speak for themselves, including Steve Gardner. The following are sourced quotes.  

PCF-94


Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell."

David Alston
Rev. Alston is from Columbia, SC and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a Gunners Mate on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.

 "David Alston was the gunner atop Kerry's pilot house. Kerry, he told an audience here, was a compassionate commander. `We were in a lot of firefights,' Alston said. `You learn a lot about people. After a firefight, John would come up to me and he would put his hand on me and he'd say, 'David, are you all right?' `I didn't know then that I had a man of God on my boat,' Kerry said. `That's probably why I'm here today'."

`Down in the Mekong Delta, we lived together, we fought together, we bled together and we survived together,' said Alston. `Whether we were Democratic or Republican was not the issue,' he said. `The issues at that time were trust, courage, judgment and character.' Alston attached those attributes to Kerry and introduced his friend with no further ceremony."

Alston is the crewmate who gave a speech at the DNC last week. The text is here
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/

Del Sandusky
Mr. Sandusky is from Dunedin, FL and served in Vietnam in the Navy as the senior enlisted man on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.

"Kerry commanded a Navy `Swift Boat' that patrolled the Mekong delta. His crew recalls Kerry as brainy and extremely aggressive, `a good leader and a bit of a hard-charger,' says Del Sandusky from Elgin, Ill."
"Del Sandusky, 58, of Elgin, Ill., and Clearwater, Fla., served under Kerry on a patrol boat in 1969. When another boat hit a mine, Kerry ordered the dead and injured brought on board and the sinking boat towed, six or seven miles, to the Gulf of Tonkin. Because Americans had died on the boat, Kerry, out of loyalty, wouldn't leave it behind for the enemy. `All the boat crew men volunteered to help in anyway we can,' with Kerry's political campaigns, Sandusky said. `Whatever he wants, we'll help him with. Because we believe in him.' "

Fred Short
Mr. Short is from North Little Rock, AR and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a Gunners Mate on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.

"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3
3La Ganga, Maria L.   "Crewmates Attest to Kerry's Mettle as Wartime Commander."     Los Angeles Times.   29 July 2004   (p. A13).     Zoroya, Greg.   "Vietnam Crewmates Steady at Kerry's Side."     USA Today.   29 July 2004   (p. A4).

Gene Thorson
Mr. Thorson is from Ames, Iowa and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a Engineman on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.

In support of this grassroots deployment, 73,000 Iowa veteran households received a mailing in December from Kerry's Vietnam swift boat crewmate Gene Thorsen, of Ames, IA, rallying them to "stand up for John Kerry the same way he stands up for veterans."

He said he knew back then that the skipper of his boat, John Kerry, was bound for high places. Almost 30 years later, Thorson got a call from Kerry asking for political help. Now, he often gives up his weekends to travel with other veterans and campaign with Kerry on his run for president.
By: Matt Neznanski, Staff Writer July 19, 2004
Ames Tribune

"He took care of all of us. He really did," Thorson said.
Des Moines Register

Tom Belodeau is deceased, he served on PCF-94 with Kerry

Kerry was helped by the fact that Belodeau stood beside him and said he had been misquoted."This man was not lying on the ground. This man was more than capable of destroying that boat and everybody on it. Senator Kerry did not give him that opportunity," Belodeau said. He also said that he was not sure whether or not he had hit the attacker.
May 06, 2004 National Review Online

Mike Medeiros
Mr. Medeiros is from San Leandros, California and served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.

"He made good decisions, I believe proper decisions," said Mike Medeiros of San Leandro, Calif., who served for four months on Kerry's swift boat in Vietnam. "And the fact that we all returned alive is a good indication that they were the right decisions."Medeiros was reunited with Kerry in 1996, when Republicans were attacking his military record in a heated Senate race. Kerry's crew mates came to set the record straight at the Charlestown Navy Yard, the same place they stood shoulder-to-shoulder on the eve of his nomination acceptance.   
ABCNEWS.com July 28, 2004 From  AP

PFC-44


Kerry captained this ship from November 1968 to January 1969. This command saw considerably less action

Jim Wasser
Mr. Wasser is from St. Anne, IL and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a Radarman on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.

Mr. Kerry took command of P.C.F.-44 with a veteran crew headed by Mr. Wasser, a radarman second class. "Always, when there's a new guy on the boat, you check him out," Mr. Wasser said. "It only took me a few days. We knew that we had somebody special that cared for us. We bonded."
Combative and politically conservative, Mr. Wasser, from Kankakee, Ill., had a pair of American flags tattooed on his shoulder and still loathes Jane Fonda.
NYTimes Febuary 24 2004

What I saw back then was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."

2.   Braun, Stephen.   "Kerry's War Tour Serves as Theme, Target."     Los Angeles Times.   29 July 2004   (p. A13).     Brinkley, Douglas.   Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War.     New York: HarperCollins, 2004.   ISBN 0-06-056523-3.     Klein, Joe.   "The Long War of John Kerry."     The New Yorker.   2 December 2002.     Kranish, Michael.   "John F. Kerry: Candidate in the Making -- Part 2: Heroism, and Growing Concern About War."     The Boston Globe.   16 June 2003.

Drew Whitlow
Mr. Whitlow is from Huntsville, AR and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a Boatswain Mate on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.

"I figured with the abilities he had, he was going to go high, but I didn't have any idea about him running for president," said Whitlow, 57, wearing a cap decorated with Kerry campaign pins.
Whitlow said he recalled Kerry as a humble seaman when he joined Whitlow's crew as a lieutenant junior grade in 1968.

Kerry told crewmates, "I know you guys don't need me but I sure need you," said Whitlow, who served as a boatswain mate.

"He accepted us for who we were," Whitlow said. "The decisions that he made saved our lives.

"He never shot from the hip when it came to decisions," Whitlow said. "He'd always confront the problems head on."

Whitlow, a Kerry campaign coordinator for veterans in western and southern Arkansas, began campaigning for Kerry in September 2003. In January, Whitlow traveled with Kerry to Iowa and New Hampshire.
The Times Record Fort Smith, Arkansas  Thursday, July 29, 2004

Bill Zaladonis
Mr. Zaladonis is from Sanford, FL and served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.

"I never saw John back down from anything," crewmember Bill Zaladonis says
April 13, 2004 USA Today

Steve Hatch
Mr. Hatch served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
Stephen W. Hatch of Altoona, Pa., with four tattoos, who says he supports Mr. Kerry though he wants no part of politics.
NYTimes Febuary 24 2004

"He wouldn't let you go randomly down the river shooting up everything in sight," says Stephen Hatch, who served on the first of Kerry's two boats.
April 13, 2004 USA Today

Stephen M. Gardner
Served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-44 with Senator John Kerry

"Kerry was chickenshit," he insists. "Whenever a firefight started he always pulled up stakes and got the hell out of Dodge."    

"I was driving down the road, and I hit that button and Rush was talking about Kerry and his campaign and how something just didn't feel right to him," Gardner recalled, his voice full of conviction. "Something about what John Kerry did or was doing, just really didn't set right with him. And you know I served with this guy, and the bottom line to it is; harsh as this may sound or as good as it sounds to any Democrat, out there, John Kerry is another `Slick Willy.' He's another Bill Clinton and that's exactly what he is. And I'm telling you right now, that if John Kerry gets to be president of these United States, it'll be a sorry day in this world for us. We can't stand another Democrat like that in there again. We'll get our asses in such a sling this time; we won't be able to get out of it. And the bottom line to it is, I don't care how much John Kerry's changed after he moved off my boat, his initial patterns of behavior when I met him and served under him was somebody who ran from the enemy, rather than engaged it. If I'd had Rush's 800 number, or known how to reach him, I would have called in."    

"I've told a few of my friends that he was an asshole," Gardner says. "But I'm not looking to make news."    

"Kerry sat some of them down and convinced them to buy into his side of what happened over there,"    

"When you're as persuasive as Kerry it's not hard to make a guy change something that he saw."

A recent interview with Gardner is at the Time link. The interview explains why he haven't been heard of until recently. All of the Gardner quotes are here and more.
The author of the Time article states that he believes Gardner's motives are political, and after reading what he had to say I'm inclined to agree.    

http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,599034,00.html
 


Jim Rassmann was not a crewmate but I think belongs here.

Jim Rassmann
Mr. Rassmann is from Florence, OR and served in Vietnam as a Special Forces Officer in the Army.

He clung to the net as bullets whizzed past. `Next thing I knew, John came out in the middle of all this,' Rassmann says. `I couldn't believe it. He was going to get killed. He ran to the edge, reached over with his good arm and pulled me over the lip.' Rassmann later recommended Kerry for the Silver Star, and was upset when the Army instead awarded Kerry a lesser Bronze Star with a `V' for valor."

Under Zumwalt's command, swift boats would aggressively engage the enemy. Zumwalt, who died in 2000, calculated in his autobiography that these men under his command had a 75 percent chance of being killed or wounded during a typical year.

Here is Kerry's request to go to Vietnam
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Request_For_Swiftboat_Duty.pdf

Swiftboats

Interesting
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/mcherald/2004/07/13/news/nation/9142574.htm

Research:

I have seen this website. It reminds me of the attack on John McCain 2000.

The leader of this group, John O'Neill didn't meet Kerry until 1971.

from the website

"our group includes men who served beside Kerry in combat as well as his commanders."

The only man here who served beside Kerry in combat  is Steve Gardner.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,599034,00.html


Here is what his commanders said about Kerry in his fitness reports.

Lieutenant Commander George Elliott
In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity. On one occasion while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several enemy KIA.
LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training program.  

During the period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star medal, the Bronze Star medal, the Purple Heart medal (2nd and 3rd awards).

Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard
Hibbard's evaluation was brief and incomplete because Hibbard oversaw Kerry's service for only about two weeks. Kerry's duty under Hibbard included "counter infiltration operations against Viet Cong forces. Engaged in combat operations." Hibbard marked a few performance categories, noting that Kerry's initiative, cooperation, and bearing ranked among the top few. But unlike other evaluators who wrote about specific actions by Kerry, Hibbard did not do so, providing this explanation: "The short period LTJG Kerry was attached to Coast Division 14 prevents further evaluation."

Captain Adrian Lonsdale
In the November 4, 1996, issue of South Coast Today, wrote: "Adrian Lonsdale remembers a young John F. Kerry as a naval officer who was a good debater, even back in his days in Vietnam. "'He and I and others used to have long discussions at the officers club,' said Mr. Lonsdale of Mattapoisett, a former Coast Guard officer who commanded a division in which the Massachusetts senator was attached back in 1969. 'They were very spirited discussions about the war and the politics back home.' "'He was opposed to the war but it didn't make any difference in his performance,' said the former owner and still instructor at Northeast Maritime Institute in New Bedford. 'He was a very good officer.' "Capt. Lonsdale was among a group of former Vietnam veterans the Massachusetts Democrat brought to the Charlestown navy yard recently to rebut a Boston Globe column that raised questions about Sen. Kerry's Vietnam service, particularly the Silver Star he won. "Mr. Lonsdale was in charge of a two-division flotilla opereating out of Phu Quoc, a big island near the Cambodian border. One division was made up of Swift boats, fast 50-foot offshore boats, while the other was composed of 82-foot Coast Guard patrol boats."
Note this is not a fitness report

Admiral Zumwalt
Admiral Zumwalt signed Kerry's silver star recommendation. In 1996, he defended John Kerry in the midst of a close political campaign. Admiral Zumwalt is deceased, his son  decided to speak on his behalf on the website .

Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann
I had a quote from Vietnam but I lost it. I will find it and out it another email.
He did not write a fitness report.

Captain Charles Plumly
Kerry was under his command for a brief time. There are no reports from him about Kerry from 1969.

Joseph Streuli and George M. Elliott
Evaluation co-signed by Joseph Streuli and George M. Elliott on January 28, 1969, and March 17, 1969, respectively:
... exhibited all of the traits of an officer in a combat environment. He frequently exhibited a high sense of imagination and judgment in planning operations against the enemy in the Mekong Delta.

Captain Allen W. Slifer
October 19, 1967, evaluation from Captain Allen W. Slifer: "A top notch officer in every measurable trait. Intelligent, mature, and rich in educational background and experience, ENS Kerry is one of the finest young officers I have ever met and without question one of the most promising. "

Admiral Walter F. Schlech
March 2, 1970 evaluation from Admiral Walter F. Schlech:
"... one of the finest young officers with whom I have served in a long naval career."

Captain E.W. Harper, Jr
September 3, 1968, evaluation from Captain E.W. Harper, Jr.:
LTJG KERRY is an intelligent and competent young naval officer who has performed his duties in an excellent to outstanding manner.

The last Four Commanders here are not mentioned on the website, but I think their evaluation of him belongs here. This list includes all Navy fitness reports.

The other men on this website do not claim to have served with, commanded, or even know Kerry.

I believe most of these men are anti-Kerry because of his activities after the war. If you read their statements, most don't even mention his service in Vietnam. The ones who do had something very different to say at the time. (except Gardner who said nothing then)

It is their right to campaign against Kerry, but not to rewrite Kerry's service in Veitnam.

The Commanders are career officers and I believe more likely to oppose anti-war activities

This group has a couple big financial backers from Texas, who are not mentioned on the website. Their political donations for 2002 in Texas are noted below. They are also donors at the national level to republicans.

Registered as a "527" organization with the Internal Revenue Service, the "Swift Boat Veterans" group can raise and spend unlimited amounts of money for campaign activities, but is prohibited from working directly with the Bush campaign or the Republican Party.

http://membership.publicintegrity.org/527/docs/9558357.pdf

This group has $158,000.

$100,000  from Bob Perry he is from Texas

Bob Perry donated $2,983,500 in fiscal year 2002 in Texas, 96,4% to republicans
As far as I can tell he did not serve in the military, he is not mentioned on the website

http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/contributor.phtml?si=200243&d=562077

$25,000 from Harlan Crow he is from Texas

Harlan Crow donated $323,200 in fiscal year 2002 in Texas, 86% to republicans
As far as I can tell he did not serve in the military, he is not mentioned on the website

He is a Trustee of the Bush Library
http://www.georgebushfoundation.org/bush/asp/OverView/Trustees.asp
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/contributor.phtml?si=200243&d=562787

$25,000 from O'Neill
O'Neill is the leader of this group.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Thanks and Done! Wonder How He'll Take It. n/t
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Lestatdelc Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. From what you have posted
Edited on Sun Aug-08-04 03:03 PM by Lestatdelc
Deny it and just scream about how Kerry is a liar war criminal and went to Vietnam to build a "war hero" lie to sell. It was all a game by Kerry no doubt in this kids messed up mind.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Kid Actually Responded a couple of times
This is very long but I've included his reponses and my replies. I think it is a lost cause though. He seems thoroughly brainwashed. Here is his latest two responses and my replies. Kid is really misguided.

"I know the military (have been familiar with it over
10 years)... he (John Kerry) worked the system, and
was there for himself. There for 4 months, his own
officers didn't like him and only one of his swift
boat crew support his canindacy today. In an
enviroment like that people learn about their
"coworkers" quickly. Perhaps you were unaware of your
navy brethern thoughts on that. Maybe I can send you
some PDFs on that (since I have degrees in E-commerce
and Information Systems -- I can even make them from
scratch). 3 purple hearts and not a day
hospitalization is a crock of shit. They are even
saying they were self inflicted. Kerry is a fraud...
Bush may have been scared but he wasnt seen with Jane
Fonda, or throwing his "Valor" over fences. He didn't
help the war effort but unlike Kerry at least he
didn't hurt it."

My Reply: You are either confused, or just plain lying. You wrote that John Kerry was only in Vietnam for 4 months. Unfortunately, most people forget to mention the year he spent as an officer on a destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin. He then VOLUNTEERED to serve on swift boats. This was even after he had finished his tour and could have returned stateside. In other words, he spent a total of 16 months in Vietnam. Of course, the four months he spent as a swift boat commander was the time when he was close to the enemy and served heroically. Let me tell you. A tour as a Junior Officer in the Engineering Department of a Destroyer is not a "walk in the park". You work your ass off.

I guess you decided to skip the Democratic National Convention coverage. If you had, you would have seen that 11 of the 12 men who served on Kerry's Swift Boat were on the stage with him. You might also be interested in the fact that these same men who served with Kerry have traveled all over the country with him to support him. The wack-jobs you are thinking about who are now "claiming" to have served with Kerry are these so called "swift boat veterans for truth". These folks DID NOT serve with Kerry. They served at the SAME TIME as Kerry, but they were not on his swift boat. In fact several of them were not even there during the same time Kerry. If you don't believe me, listen to a real war hero. John McCain, who was getting bamboo shoved under his fingernails in Hanoi before you were born, has called this group "dishonest and dispicable". These folks saying they served with Kerry, is like my uncle saying he served with McArther since they both were in WWII! Open your eyes. Try to learn something. When you send out crap that is so easily disputed by fact, it really shows your ignorance of the facts and lack of research.

Please don't worry about volunteering for the military. You can do that you know? You don't have to wait for them to call. If things keep going the way they are, you may find yourself drafted anyway. As for me, I am a prior enlisted Sailor with almost 20 years in the Navy. I have served on 4 different ships and an F-18 squadron. I have spent 14 of my 20 years on arduous operational sea duty. I advanced rapidly to Chief Petty Officer and was then selected for the Limited Duty Officer/Chief Warrant Officer Program. I have earned my commission, and am proud to serve. Less than 1% of Sailors in the Navy are selected for the LDO/CWO Program, so I think I can speak rather comfortably about what military life is all about.

Your arguments about John Kerry are all things that I could hear from Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanity, or Neil Boortz. These folks love to spin the truth and use strawman arguments to feed red meat to the right-wing nut jobs. Please expand your horizons. Get some real news, and get some real facts. I will not continue to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

You may be shocked to find out that not all of the military are "mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, neo-con republicans". There are quite a few Democrats that are fighting and dying for their country right now, while you sit at your computer and spew out hateful e-mail accusing them of being communist and socialist. I will not allow that to stand."

He then sent this. I think he is cutting and pasting from the SwiftPuke website:
"Just because he served doesn't mean you have to
respect him.
Here Choke on this -- This is from a vet.
8. Kerry blamed the militarys use of "free fire zones"
for him having to shot innocent people...bullshit.
9. I spent 2 combat tours in Vietnam, I too have 3
Purple Hearts. No honorable soldier would EVER kill an
unarmed women or child...free fire zone meant you
don't have to call for permission to engage the
"ENEMY".
10. Kerry is the WAR CRIMINAL...
11. In almost 18 months in combat I never, NOT ONCE,
witnessed any act of barbarism, or torture ( some
rough treatment yes, no torture). AND certainly no one
RAPED any women...you could "rent one" for about $2.00
why risk prison ? There were prostitutes everywhere,
they'd come out to you while you were on patrols ! And
I certainly never saw a portable telephone.
12. The penalty for killing an innocent civilian was
20 years in prison.
13. Kerry was in Vietnam from Dec.2, 1968 to March 21,
1969 Three months, three weeks.
14. In that time he got at least 3 Purple Hearts, one
Silver Star, and one Bronze Star with V.
15. Not one of Kerrys "combat wounds" required more
than a band aid, or even a day of "light duty".
16. Kerry's front gunner shot a VC. Kerry immediately
beached the boat (court martial) and ran over to where
the mortally wounded enemy lay dying....and shot him
in the head. For this he was court martialed for a war
crime, beaching his boat, no Kerry was awarded the
Silver Star for Valor.
17. A passenger on his boat fell overboard and Kerry
turned the boat around to pick him up...and got the
Bronze Star with V, ...."V" is for valor.
18.The Constitution's 14th amendment says no man may
serve in any government position who has given aid and
confort to the enemy....Kerry's anti war organization,
and his trip to Paris during the war to meet with the
North Vietnmese peace envoys, underminded US peace
talks, and gave aid and comfort to the enemy in the
form of encouragement, and solidarity.
Kerry is unfit to be a Senator, and especially
President. To lie before Congress and to the press
about war attrocities in a time of war gives aid and
comfort to the enemy and it weakens morale. That is
treason.
More vets are speaking out against Kerry. A fraction
are actually for him.
Congratulations on your strong military presence LT.
You haven't been an officer for 20 years. Saying that
you have been for over 20 years strongly degrades your
arguement. Should I believe someone that has served
there, or someone like my father who was is ROTC and
then in flight school in the middle 1970s. Or someone
like you who was enlisting at my age in the early 80s.
It sounds by the way you write you're very smart, and
think I'm young dumb and ignorant. I just tell you
like it is. The way you see it isn't the way it is in
the books. Your claim of unarmed is facetious."

My reply: Michael,

Again, everything you have written is unadulterated bullshit! You are the one that needs to do some research. I am responding because I could not believe the idiocy that was coming across my computer.

You are indeed mis-guided if you do not think there were atrocities committed in Vietnam. A simple trip to the public library to do some research will reveal several separate court martials for attrocities in Vietnam. War is hell, and sometimes even Americans do disgusting and terrible things. Look at the example of the Abu Grahb prison. Currently there are several soldiers on trial right this minute for commmiting attrocoties in Iraq! That is a fact my young friend. I urge you to read about the Mai Lei masacre if you want an example of attrocities committed in Vietnam. Does that mean that every single American soldier and Sailor is guilty? No! The vast majority of our men and woman in uniform conduct themselves in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Just because you say it does not make it so.

Some of your statements are so baseless, and devoid of fact that I will not waste my time responding to them. All you need to do to refute these is to visit a library. It seems that you have been either "brainwashed" into believing every silly thing you hear about Kerry, or you fail to research the actual facts. Are you watching too much Fox News, or do you listen to too much Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity? Failure to think for yourself, or research the facts is a true sign of weakness. Here are some specific repudiations to what you wrote.

13. Kerry was in Vietnam from Dec.2, 1968 to March 21,
> 1969 Three months, three weeks. - Wrong! Kerry commanded a Swift Boat during this time frame. Incidentaly, 11 of the 12 men on his boat are now campaigning with him. He was also an Engineering Division Officer on a Destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin for 12 months. If you don't know what the Gulf of Tonkin was, it was where the Vietnam War supposedly started because our ships were fired upon. When Kerry came up for rotation he VOLUNTEERED for duty specifically in Vietnam, and specifically as a Swift Boat Commander.

14. In that time he got at least 3 Purple Hearts, one
> Silver Star, and one Bronze Star with V. - Sounds like a pretty heroic guy! Sorry he didn't cut and run, or seek a deferment, or join the National Guard. I guess if he had done that you would worship him for the "great leader" he is. Jeesh! What was your point in including this? To prove he was a hero? Good! You're almost there.

15. Not one of Kerrys "combat wounds" required more
> than a band aid, or even a day of "light duty". - Wrong Again! 50% of those who received the Purple Heart in Vietnam did not require hospitilazation. Kerry still carries shrapnel around in his leg. Additionally, on two separate occassions, he was transported to a Coast Guard Cutter for treatment. Does not sound to me like scratches. I would say you should praise him for being able to return to his duties so quickly. Again, I don't know what your point is? Would you respect him if he had lost a leg, or an arm? How wounded do you have to be to get a Purple Heart? If your a Democrat, are you required to leave your limbs on the field before you would qualify for a Purple Heart? The Purple Heart is awarded for wounds received in combat. And this award is not given out lightly.

16. Kerry's front gunner shot a VC. Kerry immediately
> beached the boat (court martial) and ran over to where
> the mortally wounded enemy lay dying....and shot him
> in the head. For this he was court martialed for a war
> crime, beaching his boat, no Kerry was awarded the
> Silver Star for Valor. - Wrong Again! His own commander at the time praised him for his ingenuity and quick thinking in this case. The true story is that the Vietcong (those were the bad guys) was firing a RPG at Kerry's boat and they were taking small arms fire as well. From the write up for the citation "LT Kerry then turned his boat into shore to make a smaller target. Directly charging at the enemy, LT Kerry beached his boat and lept off in pursuit of the Vietcong soilder, killing him and removing the threat." This story is repudiated not only by the Silver Star citation, but also the 11 Sailors that were there, but again, I don't know what your point is. He was in war and he killed an enemy that was trying to kill him and his men. Sounds to me like the kind of guy I would want with me in a foxhole. Don't believe this bullshit.

17. A passenger on his boat fell overboard and Kerry
> turned the boat around to pick him up...and got the
> Bronze Star with V, ...."V" is for valor. - Wrong Again! This was a Green Beret soldier. That swift boat hit a mine and the Green Beret was thrown overboard. They were taking intense fire from shore. Kerry returned fire and went back to pick up the Green Beret (Lt RASMUN sp). The soldier was injured and unable to climb aboard the boat. Again, form the actual citation "Kerry, despite being wounded, scramble to the side of the boat, and despite fire from the shore, he got on his knees and pulled the wounded soldier to safety, thus saving his life." This Green Beret is one of the Band of Brothers that appeared with Kerry at the convention. In his choked back tears he credits Kerry for saving his life. Now why don't you CHOKE ON THAT.

18.The Constitution's 14th amendment says no man may
> serve in any government position who has given aid and
> confort to the enemy....Kerry's anti war organization,
> and his trip to Paris during the war to meet with the
> North Vietnmese peace envoys, underminded US peace
> talks, and gave aid and comfort to the enemy in the
> form of encouragement, and solidarity. - WOW! Was Kerry convicted of this? Gee, I guess if Rush or Hanity say so, then WTF! Again, just because you say it is so, doesn't make it so. One question though, did you call for treason hearings when Sen Tom Delay (R) and Sen Trent Lott (R), gave aid and comfort to the enemy when they accused Clinton of "wagging the dog" in Bosnia? Be careful what you accuse people of. This is rediculous.

It is fine and good that you listen to your father. However, if he is not giving you all the facts and the truth, then you sometimes need to cut the apron strings and learn some things on your own. I respect you dad for his service, but if he is filling your head with this BS, he is doing you no favors. The truth is out there. Please pursure it.



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BlueCollar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. again
you knocked it out of the park...

If this kid is the caliber we may soon be drafting, we may be in perilous waters.

I wouldn't want to have to serve with him.

There's no icon for a salute...so please accept mine in words.


AMS-2
VP-40
79-83
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Through the uprights, over the crossbar, into the stands!!!
Elegant, concise and devastating - a big salute! :yourock:
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. outstanding work Maxrandb

Great response. You did it without name calling...you just produced the facts and stated your case.

I will be shocked if you get:

A) A response that says he has investigated the issues and this person made a mistake in attacking Kerry's patriotism

B) No Response

I will expect a response:

A) That uses the word Liberal at least twice written incoherantly and obssessively about the great work Bush has done.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Excellent reply! n/m
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. Very good
I think it's perfect. Tell him if he votes for Bush* he won't have to wait long before they draft him and drag his ass off to Iraq. Then he can show everyone what a patriot he is.
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mourningdove92 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow, I am really impressed.
Very well written.
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Great reply
Edited on Sat Aug-07-04 07:05 PM by PsN2Wind
However it is much too reasoned to sway a Kerry hater. I've have at times used a similar argument to those great supporters of Dubya and his war. I simply say you can show the depth of your commitment by going to the recruiting office and signing up, I can show mine by waving as you leave for Iraq.
Corrected spelling
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benddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. Tell your right wing nut job
Edited on Sat Aug-07-04 07:25 PM by bigannie
that 1/2 of all the wounds received in Vietnam did not require hospitalization. http://www.a101avn.org/VIETNAMWARRIORS.htm
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent
You nailed it to the wall. Thanks for your effort.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hear! Hear!
And BTW, junior, your man didn't even show up for the priviledge of servng in the National Guard, let alone facing mortality in the middle of some overheated jungle.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ouch
truth hurts. When IS the graduation date?
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent post
Edited on Sun Aug-08-04 01:04 AM by Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
The Bush administration tends to consider those in the military some of their biggest supporters. Your e-mail shows that accusations against Kerry by the so called "Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth" are an insult to the military.

The Bush administration should follow John McCain's advice and condemn this add. But you watch, they won't.
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BlueCollar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
18. This proud Navy veteran
thinks you hit it out of the park...

Well done.
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DavidFL Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. Wow, check out that website "socialistkerry.com"
Edited on Sun Aug-08-04 01:43 AM by DavidFL
No surprise here. Not one argument how Kerry's policies are socialist or whether Kerry himself is a socialist. Just a bunch of rightwing trash about Kerry not earning his medals, his alleged flip-flopping and an article by trannie Ann on how Democrats caused Sept. 11th.

Apparently these people have no idea what socialism is or what it means and they really should study it before making websites like this because they really look really stupid when they do this kind of thing. Social Security...socialism. Medicare...socialism, too. Oh my God the Commies are taking over! I wonder if these people also know socialism isn't a bad thing, it's just another type of economic system and philosophy.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
21. Wow
That was just perfect!
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
23. The daughter of two WWII vets says 'great job'
and Thank You! :)
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Excellent reply.
It is rare that Right Wingers ever respond to logic though. ;)

It is disgusting that the scum attack J. Kerry in this manner.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
25. From another Navy vet, nicely done! n/t
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
26. reply to all
freaking OUTSTANDING. I'm sick of the same people bashing Kerry who think it was A-OK for Bush to get his daddy to get him in the Guard and then the lazy SOB couldn't even stick THAT out. When conservatives call me "anti-military" I point out I am an Air Force brat AND an Air Force veteran. When I ask them when THEY served, gee wouldn't ya know, they had SOMETHING ELSE TO DO.
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ChipperbackDemocrat Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. snapping quick salute to max :)
Edited on Sun Aug-08-04 07:18 AM by ChipperbackDemocrat
Aye! Aye! Sir!

Well struck argument against the chickenhawk platoon!

Lets keep the pressure on them, people. Their day is done!

The Cheap-Labor Conservatives have to smear and bring fear. They have to lie, cheat, steal and give diebold a deal.

They clutch to Halliburton, but they know they are hurting. Losing is the lady for which they are flirting.

They hear the march from every city and town. From Bangor to Long Beach the word has come down.

The Republican drumbeat seems ominious and scary. But they won't scare me off I'm voting for Kerry.

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Hi ChipperbackDemocrat!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. that's funny, you've got enough time in to retire
and I'm just starting to go into the Navy myself. The cycle of life, hopefully I'll meet like minded folks when I get down to Charlston, SC.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. Serveri. Good Luck
All I can say is enjoy your time in. You're going to meet some great people and you will have a chance to see the world.

The Officer corps seems to be a bit conservative and republican, but you will meet all kinds of people with different views and backgrounds.

One joke we have in our Ready Room is that I as the Democrat am like the fat kid in dodgeball. But I have really had some civil debates and talks with everyone.

Keep your powder dry
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
30. Absolutely magnificent!
That last line almost made me weep.


I was in the Marine Corps in Saigon in 1965.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Thank You Sir!
I call any marine that served in Vietnam "sir" no matter what their paygrade. A little dig though (all in good fun). Isn't the Marine Corps just part of the department of the Navy? Of course most marines would never agree that they were just part of the Navy.

I served on two amphibs and I have tremendous respect for marines. God, as a Chief I had less power than a Staff Seargent. How I would have loved to have dropped some of my junior Sailors and have them knock out 25 push-ups. We just didn't do that in the Navy.

I was on the USS IOWA, and we had a Gunney Seargent on there that wore 2 Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart. I swear to god. At the age of 44, he could have kicked my strapping 20 year old self all over the place.
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
32. Bravo Zulu
Sir. Excellent reply.

Those of us who are veterans are in a much better position to
reply to and refute these right wing attacks on Kerry's record. The chickenhawks can't stand it when we do.

carry on
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
33. Checkmate
That really was masterful.

By the way, here's a PDF of the enlistment contract. You might send it to him, if he decides he didn't like your last reply. But I have a feeling you won't hear from him again for a while.

http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0004.pdf
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voice of reason Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
40. maybe he saw this
Dear Station Manager:

The purpose of this letter is to present some of the factual support for the advertisement "Any Questions?" produced and used by Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ("Swiftvets"), an organization properly registered under Internal Revenue Code § 527, and which has filed all required reports. Swiftvets is an organization led by Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN (retired), Commander of all Swift boats in Vietnam during the period of John Kerry's four-month abbreviated tour in Swift boats between late November 1968 and mid-March 1969. A list of the 254 members may be found on www.swiftvets.com. A large majority of those who served with John Kerry in Swift boats in Vietnam and whose location is known have joined the organization. Thus, for example, sixteen of the twenty-three surviving officers who served in Coastal Division 11 with Kerry (the place where Kerry spent most of his time) have joined the organization, together with most of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and 254 sailors from Coastal Squadron One, ranging from Vice-Admirals to Seamen.

The purpose of Swiftvets is to present the truth about John Kerry's post-Vietnam charges of war crimes and John Kerry's own Vietnam record. Swiftvets is uniquely positioned to do so since it includes most of the locatable sailors and officers who served with John Kerry in Vietnam.

John Kerry has made his Vietnam record the central focus of his presidential candidacy, depicting purported Vietnam events in nearly $100 million in advertising. Copies of ads such as "Lifetime" and "No Man Left Behind" may be found on Kerry's website. Kerry's authorized campaign biography, Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War, by Douglas Brinkley (New York: HarperCollins, 2004) ("Tour"), centers on his short Vietnam tour and contains Kerry's account of these events. Additional accounts by Kerry of his Vietnam experience may be found on his website.

The Advertisement

A true and correct transcript of the advertisement entitled "Any Questions?" is attached as Exhibit 1. Affidavits are attached (as Exhibits 2 through 14) from each participant in the advertisement, except from John Edwards, the Democratic Vice Presidential nominee, whose often-repeated invitation to learn about John Kerry by speaking to the men who served with him begins the advertisement. The filmed comment of Senator Edwards has been made so many times as to be general knowledge.

As described in the attached affidavits, Al French (Exhibit 2), Bob Elder (Exhibit 3), Jack Chenoweth (Exhibit 7), Larry Thurlow (Exhibit 10), and Bob Hildreth (Exhibit 14) were all officers in charge of Swift boats in Vietnam in Coastal Division 11 with John Kerry. Coastal Division 11 was a small naval unit with about one hundred sailors and fifteen or sixteen boats which operated in groups of two to six boats. Each of these boat officers operated directly with John Kerry on numerous occasions. Van Odell (Exhibit 6) is a retired Navy enlisted man who also served in Coastal Division 11 on the Chenoweth boat, a few yards from John Kerry during Kerry's March 13, 1969 Bronze Star action.

Captain George Elliott, USN (retired), (Exhibit 4) was John Kerry's direct commander in Coastal Division 11, while Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired), (Exhibit 9) was Kerry's administrative commander. Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN (retired), (Exhibit 8) commanded all Swift boats (including Kerry's) in Vietnam. Each of these commanders interacted on numerous occasions with Kerry and, for example, are discussed for many pages in Kerry's own authorized book, Tour.

Dr. Louis Letson (Exhibit 5) was the doctor in Cam Rahn Bay who treated Kerry's first Purple Heart "wound," while Commander Grant Hibbard (Exhibit 11) was John Kerry's commander at Coastal Division 14 where Kerry claimed to have suffered the wound. Finally, Joe Ponder (Exhibit 13) and Shelton White (Exhibit 12) are veterans of Coastal Division 11 who were badly wounded near the Song Bo De River where Kerry served most of his short tour.

The Kerry campaign has utilized a revolving group of eight veterans from Coastal Division 11 (none of whom served with Kerry as much as two months). In stark contrast to this small stable of supporters, the veterans on "Any Questions?" have intimate knowledge of John Kerry or (in the case of Ponder and White) of the falsehood and injury of his false war crimes charges. Although many more of the over 250 signers of the Swiftvets' letter served directly with John Kerry, it would be hard to locate people with more detailed and first-hand knowledge of John Kerry's short Vietnam stay than those in the advertisement. They are well-suited to respond with first-hand knowledge to Edward's invitation. Their sworn affidavits are attached (in order of appearance in the advertisement) as Exhibits 2 through 14.

Kerry's obtaining of three Purple Hearts permitted him to leave Vietnam some 243 days short of the normal one-year tour. See Exhibit 20, Thrice Wounded Reassignment. Whether or not he fraudulently obtained these awards (the Purple Heart being among the most sacred of all awards) is critical to his true Vietnam story.

A. March 13, 1969: "No Man Left Behind" Incident

Attached as Exhibit 15 is Kerry's account of "no man left behind" where, in Tour of Duty, Kerry repeats his now-familiar story of returning, wounded by an underwater mine, to recover a Special Forces soldier, Jim Rassman, in a hail of fire pulling Rassman from the water with his bleeding arm. Tour, at 313-17. The story of Kerry's return to save Rassman, under fire and wounded from the mine, has been told in many millions of dollars of Kerry advertising. See Kerry website; see also, e.g., Kerry's full-page advertisement in The New York Times, which is attached as Exhibit 16.

Kerry's after-action report for that day is featured on his website. See Exhibit 17. KJW identifies the report as Kerry's. Likewise, Kerry reported his shrapnel wounds to the Navy in an injury report:

"LTJG Kerry suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks and contusions on his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard PCF-94."

Exhibit 18. Exhibit 17 likewise identifies Kerry's "injuries" as contusion right forearm (minor) (i.e., a small bruise) and a shrapnel wound left buttocks.

The regulations for the Purple Heart are attached as Exhibit 19 and, of course, exclude accidental injury and self-inflicted wounds (except non-negligent wounds in the heat of battle). Although Kerry's "minor" bruise could never entitle him to a Purple Heart, Kerry's reported shrapnel wound to his "buttocks" (although minor according to the treating physician) from an enemy mine would have entitled him to such an award (had he not been lying about its origin). Receiving the third Purple Heart, within three days Kerry had requested reassignment from Vietnam on the basis of three Purple Hearts -- some 243 days early. See Exhibit 20.

(i) The Purple Heart Lie

Kerry's third Purple Heart was his ticket home. It also was much of the basis of his Bronze Star, repeating "his bleeding arm" and shrapnel wound from the mine story. The problem is that his operating report was a total lie since Kerry's shrapnel wound "in the buttocks" came not from a mine at all as he falsely reported, but at his own hand. Larry Thurlow, an officer on shore with Kerry that day, recounts that Kerry's shrapnel wound came not from any mine, but from a self-inflicted wound when Kerry (with no enemy to be seen) threw a concussion grenade into a rice pile and stayed too close. See Exhibit 10, ¶ 3. This "brown rice" incident with rice/shrapnel lodged in Kerry from his own grenade is also recounted by James Rassman, a Kerry supporter and "the no man left behind" on page 105 of John F. Kerry: The Complete Biography By The Boston Globe Reporters Who Know Him Best, by Michael Kranish, Brian C. Mooney, and Nina J. Easton (New York: Public Affairs, 2004) (the "Kranish book"). See Exhibit 21.

Most surprisingly, John Kerry himself (while falsely reporting to the Navy and public that he suffered a shrapnel wound from a mine explosion so as to get a third Purple Heart and go home) reflected in his own journal that his buttocks' wound came, not from any mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache by himself or friendly troops (in the absence of any enemy fire). "I got a piece of small grenade in my ass from one of the rice bin explosions." Exhibit 15, Tour, at 313; see also Exhibit 15, Tour, at 317. "Kerry . . . also had the bits of shrapnel and rice extracted from his backside." See also the sworn statement of participants that there was no hostile fire (Exhibits 6, 7, and 10). It also should be noted that the rice extracted from Kerry's backside could hardly be the result of an underwater mine, as Kerry claimed in his operating report.

The conclusion is inescapable: that Kerry lied by reporting to the Navy that he had been wounded by shrapnel in his backside from an enemy mine when in reality he negligently wounded himself and then lied about the wound in order to secure a third Purple Heart and a quick trip home.

(ii) The Bronze Star Lie

As recounted in the attached affidavits of three on-scene participants (and verified by many others present) Kerry's operating report, Bronze Star story, and subsequent "no man left behind" story are a total hoax on the Navy and the nation. As recounted in the affidavits of Van Odell (Exhibit 6), Jack Chenoweth (Exhibit 7), and Larry Thurlow (Exhibit 10) (and verified by every other officer present and many others), a mine went off under PCF 3 -- some yards from Kerry's boat. The force of the explosion disabled PCF 3 and knocked several sailors, dazed, into the water. All boats, except one, closed to rescue the sailors and defend the disabled boat. That boat -- Kerry's boat -- fled the scene. After a short period, it was evident to all on the scene that there was no additional hostile fire. Thurlow began the daring rescue of disabled PCF 3, while Chenoweth began to pluck dazed survivors of PCF 3 from the water. Midway through the process, after it was apparent that there was no hostile fire, Kerry finally returned, picking up Rassman who was only a few yards from Chenoweth's boat which was also going to pick Rassman up. Each of the affiants (and many other Swiftees on the scene that day) are certain that Kerry has wholly lied about the incident. Consider this: How could the disabled PCF abandon the scene of the mine? Why did Kerry have to "return" to the scene?

Kerry's account of this action, which was used to secure the Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart, is an extraordinary example of fraud. Kerry describes "boats rcd heavy A/W and S/A from both banks. Fire continued for about 5000 meters." Exhibit 17. In other words, the boats went through a double gauntlet at about 50 yards distance that was 3.2 miles long (comparable to Seminary Ridge at Gettysburg on two sides), and yet none of the other boats within feet of Kerry's boat heard a shot or suffered an injury after the PCF 3 mine explosion, except for John Kerry's buttocks rice wound of earlier origin.

Clearly, Van Odell is right when he says, "John Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star . . . I know. I was there. I saw what happened." As Jack Chenoweth swore, "his account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day." Most poignantly, Larry Thurlow, whose brave actions saved the PCF 3 boat that day after Kerry fled, has the right to say, "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry."

B. December 2, 1968 Purple Heart

On February 28, 1969, John Kerry received his first Purple Heart for an incident three months earlier, on or about December 2, 1968. Kerry's account of the incident is contained in Tour of Duty, pages 147 and 148 (Exhibit 23). Kerry claims to have been with two crewmen, Zaldonis and Runyon. See Exhibit 23. Neither Kerry, Zaldonis, nor Runyon claim to have seen any hostile fire. See Exhibit 24 (Kranish book, pp. 72-73). A Purple Heart cannot be given for a self-inflicted wound under the attached regulations.

Unmentioned in Kerry's Tour Of Duty version are the actual surrounding facts. Kerry, Lieutenant William Schachte, USN, and an enlisted man were on the whaler. Seeing movement from an unknown source, the sailors opened fire on the movement. There was no hostile fire. When Kerry's rifle jammed, he picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade at a nearby object. This sprayed the boat with shrapnel from Kerry's own grenade, a tiny piece of which embedded in Kerry's arm.

Kerry managed to keep the tiny fragment embedded until he saw Dr. Louis Letson. Dr. Letson's affidavit is attached as Exhibit 5. When Letson inquired why Kerry was there, Kerry said that he had been wounded by hostile fire. The accompanying crewmen indicated that Kerry was the new "JFK" and that he had actually wounded himself with an M-79. Letson removed the tiny fragment with tweezers and placed a band aid over the tiny scratch. The tiny fragment removed by Letson appeared to be an M-79 fragment, as described by the personnel accompanying Kerry.

The next morning Kerry showed up at Division Commander Grant Hibbard's office. Hibbard had already spoken to Schachte and conducted an investigation. Hibbard's affidavit is attached as Exhibit 11. Hibbard's investigation revealed that Kerry's "rose thorn" scratch had been self-inflicted in the absence of hostile fire. Hibbard, therefore, booted Kerry out of his office and denied the Purple Heart.

Some three months later, cf. Exhibit 22, after all personnel actually familiar with the events of December 2, 1969 had left Vietnam, Kerry somehow managed to obtain a Purple Heart for the December 2, 1968 event from an officer with no connection to Coastal Division 14 or knowledge of the December 2, 1968 event or of Commander Hibbard's prior turn down of the Purple Heart request. All normal documentation supporting a Purple Heart is missing. There is absolutely no casualty report (i.e., spot report) or hostile fire report or after-action report in the Navy's files to support this "Purple Heart" because there was no casualty, hostile fire, or action on which to report. The sole document relied upon by Kerry is a record showing the band aid and tweezers treatment by Dr. Letson recorded by deceased corpsman, Jess Carreon.

There are no witnesses who claim to have seen hostile fire -- necessary for a Purple Heart (even a rose thorn Purple Heart) -- that day. At least three witnesses, Dr. Letson (who spoke to the participants and removed the M-79 fragment), Lt. Bill Schachte (on the boat), and Cmdr. Grant Hibbard (whose investigation revealed Kerry's application for a Purple Heart to be fraudulent), are able to testify directly or based upon contemporaneous investigation that Kerry's first Purple Heart was a fraud. Thus, Lewis Letson's statement that "I know John Kerry is lying about a first Purple Heart" is conclusively established by the evidence. Like the third Purple Heart, Kerry's first Purple Heart was essential to his quick trip home.

C. Christmas In Cambodia

If there is a consistent<1> repeated story by John Kerry about his Vietnam experience, it is his story about how he and his boat spent Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 illegally present in Cambodia and, listening to President Nixon's contrary assurances, developed "a deep mistrust of U.S. government pronouncements." See Exhibit 24, Kranish book, p. 84. The point of his story was that his government and his commanders were lying about Kerry's presence in Cambodia on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. During a critical debate on the floor of the United States Senate on March 27, 1986, Senator John Kerry said:

Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me . . . .

Exhibit 25, Congressional Record - Senate of March 27, 1986, page 3594.

By way of further example, Kerry wrote an article for the Boston Herald on October 14, 1979:

"I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."

See Exhibit 26.

The Christmas in Cambodia story of John Kerry was repeated as recently as July 7, 2004 by Michael Kranish, a principal biographer of Kerry from The Boston Globe. On the Hannity & Colmes television show, Kranish indicated that Kerry's Christmas in Cambodia was a critical turning point in Kerry's life.

The story is a total preposterous fabrication by Kerry. Exhibit 8 is an affidavit by the Commander of the Swift boats in Vietnam, Admiral Roy Hoffmann, stating that Kerry's claim to be in Cambodia for Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 is a total lie. If necessary, similar affidavits are available from the entire chain of command. In reality, Kerry was at Sa Dec -- easily locatable on any map more than fifty miles from Cambodia. Kerry himself inadvertently admits that he was in Sa Dec for Christmas Eve and Christmas and not in Cambodia, as he had stated for so many years on the Senate Floor, in the newspapers, and elsewhere. Exhibit 27, Tour, pp. 213-219. Sa Dec is hardly "close" to the Cambodian border. In reality, far from being ordered secretly to Cambodia, Kerry spent a pleasant night at Sa Dec with "visions of sugar plums" dancing in his head. Exhibit 27, p. 219. At Sa Dec where the Swift boat patrol area ended, there were many miles of other boats (PBR's) leading to the Cambodian border. There were also gunboats on the border to prevent any crossing. If Kerry tried to get through, he would have been arrested. Obviously, Kerry has hardly been honest about his service in Vietnam.

D. War Crimes

Returning to the United States, Kerry made speeches charging that U.S. forces in Vietnam were "like the army of Genghis Khan," that "crimes were committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of all levels of command," and that our officers in Coastal Division were like Lieutenant Calley. Kerry met on least two occasions with the North Vietnamese in Paris and is, in fact, honored as a hero in the war museum in Ho Chi Minh City. See pictures on WinterSoldier.com and SwiftVets.com. Joe Ponder is a widely quoted disabled vet from Coastal Division 11 who saw no war crimes but knows that Kerry dishonored our unit. Exhibit 13. Shelton White, a badly wounded Coastal Division 11 veteran, likewise saw no war crimes and remembers Kerry's betrayal. Exhibit 12.

Conclusion

As set forth at length, there is not only a reasonable factual basis for the statements in the ad; they are virtually conclusively established by the documentation.

Thank you for your kind consideration. Please do not hesitate to call me if you have any questions.
Very truly yours,

Original signed by John E. O'Neill
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-04 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
42. Great letter ! and Welcome Home ! Pass him this one too
Edited on Sun Aug-08-04 01:21 PM by vetwife
Wife of Veteran fights back !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We should pause and think of all the veterans not just those who support Bush

A letter from a Brave Veteran’s wife

There has been an email circulating around the internet of the the woman who was trying
To have dinner with her husband when some young people voice their opinions of this administration and their rush to war being unjust.

The woman was offended as she was trying to have a special meal with her husband.
The woman spoke to the young people saying they should support the President and our troops. My response to this woman and for all of the military families who either questions this story of this woman’s confrontation and this right winged propaganda
Being circulated by people who feel she was defending Bush and his policies.

From the Wife of a Disabled Vietnam Veteran

Madame, you have every right to your opinion of this administration and this war.
This is America. On the other flip of the coin, the young people who may have to fight this war have their opinion as well. You were trying to silence their voice of dissent in a public place. Not all people share the same opinions of this administration and their rush to war based on untruths. People who are confronted for opinion opposition are not showing patriotism, they are showing blind, narrow minded ideals that question a person right to have a difference of opinion. If in fact, you were offended, maybe you should have spent more time concentrating on your husband and your meal than working up a
confrontation with people who oppose your views.

George W. Bush does not own America. All people who oppose his policy are not Hell Bound and many are Christians and of many faiths. Many people who oppose this administration have families who are serving in Iraq and feel deceived. Many who oppose this administration have worn the uniform and been deceived before in the Jungles of Vietnam. They came home with broken bodies, minds, and were not given respect for their service by their own government. They wait for months for treatment. They wait years for just compensation. Many veterans live in alleys, and under bridges as this administration cuts veterans benefits.

Many of our active military who are now serving in Iraq have been deployed to a country and are targets for danger that this administration forced them into. They are having combat pay cut. Some of the military families are forced on food stamps and losing their homes, and feel that their loved ones were misled and lied to about the dangers facing America in an urgency. They are tired, They are poor, and they are away from their loved ones and they feel that this war has made a breeding ground for terrorists, which has made America mush less secure and more hated around the world.

Many veterans and military families pray daily not only for their country but for peace.
Many patriotic Americans believe in the teachings of Christ which says Blessed are the Peacemakers and not the teachings of Bush by saying “Bring em On”.

Mrs. Right Winged America, if you felt offended by freedom to express dissent, then you are not aware that Benjamin Franklin quoted that dissent was the highest form of patriotism. My husband fought in Vietnam. He is a patriot. He is a man of faith.
He is a truth sayer and not a truth slayer. He fought for those young people to have a voice if for no other reason. If you cannot handle opposition of opinion, it might be best to stay at home where you can isolate yourself from the people who don’t walk in lockstep with George W. Bush. Bush never fought one war. He never saw battle. HE is not a man of peace and many want their pride of country back and in hands of someone who has been there and done that, like John F. Kerry. We will pray. We will for this administration’s removal come November as the Flag, God and Country does not belong to George W. Bush or any party.

Amanda L. Kato
Wife of a Disabled Combat Vietnam Vet who served in S. E. Asia and not AWOL from Alabama
By the way Mrs. right winged america, I gave my name...I am a real person . Are you? Or is your letter a propoganda tool for the right winged fundies. I suspect the latter. Where is your name?
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