Pencil, paper and...

[Andy_Stephenson]

Poll question: Pencil, paper and...

a day off to count votes. It is the only way we can be sure

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. YES: Pen only though

Pencil can be erased too easily.


SHOVE IT! - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - Hero Kerry AWOL Bush
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[SoCalDem]

2. We also need to separate the "issues" from the "candidates"

In California, our ballot can be pages and pages and pages long..

Every 2 years we should have elections of our OFFICIALS, and in "off years" we could have the proposition ballots.. Most of these things are ridiculous anyway... Usually they are worded so coyly, that a NO vot actually approves and vice versa..

This would make for an incredibly EASY and short ballot..


names...........a check box..


congress
president
senate

and any judges or council persons

It would fit on a 5 x 8 card, for pete's sake..

And yes.. a day off or weekend voting.. Fri-Sun... with NO RESULTS tabulated or posted until ALL polling places are closed...and all tallies have been turned in..


a sign in book...numbered..

ballots totalled at the end of the day MUST equal the number of people signed in..

every section of the ballot would have a "no vote" box...that way there could NEVER be an instance where someone takes off from work, stands in line, and then casts no vote.:grr:

If "no vote" is checked, x-ed, filled in nest to the congressperson's section, the people at the polling station would KNOW that all candidates were distasteful to THAT voter.. (in case of a recount)..


Voting should be, and could be so easy...and yet, it just gets trickier and trickier..

[Protected]

3. What we need is reliable and secure computer code

Last I checked, computers were very good at counting things...

[Andy_Stephenson]

4. Counting votes is bookkeeping...

The current machines and the companies that make them cannot be trusted.

I think it is time we face it and go back to all paper hand counted elections for the time being.

[oasis]

5. Back to basics. Do it right no matter how long it takes. Screw the media

and their competition to be the first to announce the winners.

[praxiz]

6. Privatising elections is stupid, anyway. n/t

[claudiajean]

8. Absolutely true.

Election systems should be publicly owned and developed, and subject to the same Freedom of Information Act and public disclosure requirements as other governmental functions.

Among other evils, privatization allows for skulduggery to be hidden by the fact that a public disclosure document request cannot be done on a private company, as it can on a public agency.

[newyawker99]

17. Hi claudiajean!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[claudiajean]

21. Thank you!

:)

[claudiajean]

7. NO. The solution is a combination of a voter verified paper ballot...

...along with using state-of-the-art counting technology (optical scan) as a tool, in conjunction with robust auditing procedures to ensure an efficient, effective, fully accurate count.

Hand counted paper ballots may be practical in other nations where there are substantially fewer ballot contests, including both races and measures, but are not an appropriate solution in the United States. We are a much more direct democracy than other nations, and our ballots are necessarily more crowded. My home county is very large, and we have as many as 3500 different contests and measures across the county on a single November ballot. A hand count of 3500 separate contests would not only be impractical, but would be less accurate than an initial machine count of all ballots and all contests, combined with random hand auditing of a statistically significant amount of all machines and contests, and a full audit of all contests that show potential anomalies.

Weekend elections are impractical for two reasons: One, it would take a Constitutional amendment to move the Federal election day from the first Tuesday following a Monday in November. It's not something that can be easily changed (and with good reason.) Two, the three largest religious denominations in the country have their Sabbath on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, respectively. Before I get flamed for bringing up this point, I would note that I am an atheist, however, I greatly value that we live in a nation where our freedom to worship as we choose (or not worship at all) is protected. Purposely scheduling the exercise of the most valued of all rights as a free citizen on a religion's Sabbath day, so that the most devout would be prevented from fully participating as a pollworker or citizen observer (or from even voting, in some cases) is as much a violation of religious freedoms as us atheists having to stare at the ten commandments in a courtroom. Both are wrong. And the Founders knew what they were doing in placing election day on a Tuesday.

Election officials are under tremendous pressure from the media to have results "immediately" upon the closing of the polls in their jurisdiction. If an election official does the responsible thing, and slows a count because she/he detects an anomaly and wants to perform audits to ensure the count is accurate, they are always crucified by the media. I have seen election managers forced out of office because they tried to do the right thing and check a count, but the media didn't get their final results early enough in the evening that they could file their stories, and get home for their beauty sleep. Consequently, the media felt "inconvenienced" and used their bully pulpit to force resignations, and weaken our electoral system, IMO.

In addition to fighting for decertification of the touchscreens, establishment of voter verified paper ballots as the universal standard, and implementation of robust auditing procedures, I would like to encourage all BBV activists to come to the defense of their local election officials when they are trying to do the right thing, and slow their counts down election night to ensure accuracy. Don't let your local media get away with attacking them.

Bad election officials deserve our scorn, but the good ones need our support, as well.

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. I am always first in praising those that deserve it

as well as first in heaping scorn on those that deserve it.

[claudiajean]

20. Yes, I know YOU are, my friend..

..but not everyone in our activist movement is concerned about also defending the good election administrators as much as tearing down the bad ones. You and I have talked about this. The good ones need our help to stay strong in the face of the vendors' massive opposition. And the courageous election officials who speak out and act against the vendors' juggernaut can be our most powerful, effective tool in securing rapid change in election procedures and equipment.

You know exactly how much pressure these folks are under if they break ranks and speak against the voting machine companies. I think we both know of someone whose life was destroyed by Diebold because they dared to speak up.

[Andy_Stephenson]

22. True...enuf

Was a terrible thing that happened. One day soon, together, all of us will set things right again.


Oh BTW :hi: CJ...welcome to DU!

and

:hi: Agent Mike...

[moondust]

9. Bring it on! n/t

[Zomby Woof]

10. Elections can be fixed all kinds of ways

After BBV saves the world, you better focus your energies on stopping the thousands of other ways elections can be fixed,including those done with #2 pencils.

Election fraud doesn't respect technology - it can be done in ways the 2000 election only hinted at.

But enjoy your little Warholian 15 minute glory.

[Junkdrawer]

12. Perhaps a non-profit organization is called for...

On a par with the ACLU

[Andy_Stephenson]

14. Hey...there is one now...

www.blackboxvoting.org

:hi:

[Andy_Stephenson]

13. Ummmm

that is what we are doing. Focusing on all the ways. We are just taking care of the elephant in the living room right now. Mmm-kay?

:eyes:

Why so hateful?

[Junkdrawer]

11. Canada just had an election with paper ballots...

and they had results within an hour or two. This is not rocket science. All the tabulating software you need can be done with a simple Excel spreadsheet.

What we need is auditability - the ability to reproduce results right back to source documents.

Want to send shivers up the spine of voting machine executives? One phrase:

Generally Accepted Accounting Principles

[Kellanved]

19. exactly

Even in Germany (complicated two-vote system) the results are usually in after three or four hours - even with several elections handled at once.

[goddess40]

15. UN

I would say they were neutral and don't have an interest in how the election turns out but I'd be wrong. The world has a definite interest in how this one turns out. The bushbots could destroy the world if they would actually get elected.
The right would never stand for it because they will try all the dirty tricks they can to steal this election.

[Bandit]

16. But people can not be trusted to count the votes........

"People can not be trusted as they are subjective while machines can be because they are objective." From the same guy who ran on the platform "I Trust the People."