Did George W. Bush deserve his silver star? Please discuss

[democrat in Tallahassee]

the pros and cons of Bush's service in Vietnam. did he deserve his medals or not? Did he run from battle or was he a hero?

[enough]

1. Excellent question, Tallahassee! (nt)

[Bowline]

2. Why is either candidate's Vietnam service/non-service an issue.

The last American combat troops left Vietnam 30 years ago. Let's talk about what the candidates have done for/to the U.S. Let's talk about what they candidates will do when elected. Let's talk about which candidate's policies will grow the economy, lower crime, educate children, help those who genuinely need a helping hand, and not stick our noses into the affairs of other countries in which we have no business interfering.

Vietnam is history and, as such, cannot be changed. The service/non-service of the candidates is history, and as such,cannot be changed. Let's move on to the future and quit arguing about what happened/didn't happen over 30 years ago.

There are certainly more pressing issues for our country then what candidate A or candidate B did in the 1960s.

[skooooo]

4. Vietnam is history..

...and while it may not be the most important issue anymore, it really scarred this nation. That's why people still talk about it.

[SoCalDem]

6. Until all the men who fought in Viet Nam are dead, it is NOT over

WWII is still "fought" daily in VFW halls daily.. Wars are never "gotten over" or "moved 0n from" easily..

Usually young men fight these wars, and their character is FORMED/ALTERED by them..

The men they become later in life are different from the men they would have become, had there been no war..

Cowardice in the face of battle is a stain that is worse than any stained blue dress.. A cowardly act as a young man, shapes their whole outlook on life..

Bush KNOWS he ducked the war, and he's not proud of it..How COULD he be?? That period of his llife started the whole secrecy thing.. People hide things they are not proud of..

He hid then..and he's still hiding..


Maybe Kerry was not Audey Murphy, but the salient fact is this.. He could have gotten out of going, but he volunteered.. Did he "secretly plan" to become a politician later?? Who knows? Had he been killed in the Mekong Delta, it would have all been for nothing.. I doubt that he went so that his resume' would look better..

Viet Nam is with us, whether we like it or not.. and 30 years fropm NOW Iraq war will be just as big of an issue...even though there is no draft now.

It's the measure of the man..

[KharmaTrain]

10. Another Litmus Test

This country is loaded with psuedo-patriots. They gauge their patriotism on things like military spending and watching the fascist drill instructor on the History Channel. Most never served a day in the military, but sure like to own guns. These people don't see leadership unless there's a rank or title attached to it. Thus when it comes to chosing a leader the military thing is big.

There's also the old game of always framing Democrats as weak, and nothing has worked better for them than the military & defense. They've turned that meme into a concrete foundation that made the military vote almost exclusively theirs.

We're blamed for "losing Vietnam" and dissing the military...either during Vietnam or cutting the budget (see above) and now not "supporting the CIC" <gag>. But this time there's are glaring hypocricies.

Sadly, we really are at war this election...and the dynamic has changed. Blustering about supporting the military is being shoved aside for true financial and moral support in the U.S. Unlike past wars where many of our leaders had served in war themselves, none of our "leaders" have any combat experience. We now that the pResident was given special treatment and then walked away, and the Vice Crashcart fought harder to keep his ass out of the military than he did to serve this country at that time.

Kerry knew his military record was going to be attacked and my thinking is he wanted to get this thing in the open and early. He's been attacked on his military record before and I suspect he's gonna let them take their shot and then he'll lower the boom on them (or through proxies). Max Cleland remains very quiet, but I don't expect that for long.

We have to neutralize the perception the GOOP is the military party and then root their influence out. It's not going to be easy with all those weekend warriors and arm chair generals who want this to be an issue.

[trof]

3. Bush secret military service revealed

Bush secret military service revealed
RNS* Washington, D.C. Oct. 3, 2004
Presidential political advisor Karl Rove today made public President George W. Bush's military record for the so-called "missing" 18 months of his service in the Texas Air National Guard.

During a little publicized press conference in the Rose Garden (the White House media contingent received only 4 days notice), Rove displayed U.S. Air Force and CIA documents which put to rest for all time rumors circulating since the 1999 campaign.

"The president is a very modest man", said Rove. "He has never been one to blow his own horn. It took me 3 weeks to convince him that it would be in this great country's best interests to release this information at this time, prior to the national elections."

The documents show that the President, then 1st Lt. George W. Bush, received a secret transfer from the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron of the Texas Air National Guard to an unnamed (classified: "Top-Secret") F-102 squadron at Danang Air Base, Republic of South Viet Nam. Due to his family's notoriety, he served under the assumed name of "Norm DeGuerre". During the 18 months he served there he was credited with 10 "kills", shooting down 4 Mig-19s, and 6 Mig-21s, thus earning the title "Double Ace". He was also credited with destroying 12 heavily defended surface-to-air (SAM) sites in downtown Hanoi, Republic of North Viet Nam. For these heroic actions he was awarded the Air Medal (A.M.) and the Distinguished Flying Cross (D.F.C.)

During the 12th mission, his F-102 Delta Dagger suffered major flak damage and Lt. "DeGuerre" was forced to eject. He spent 3 weeks as a North Vietnamese prisoner of war before overpowering his guards and escaping. The trek back to U.S. forces took 7 weeks, all through snake infested jungle, during which he lived off of berries, bamboo shoots, and reptiles. At his debriefing he remarked "Those snakes sure would have tasted better if I could have cooked them, but I just couldn't risk making a fire."

Back at Danang, and just two days prior to Lt. "DeGuerre's" release from the air force, North Vietnamese Regular Army units attempted to overrun and capture this key air base. Lt. "DeGuerre" scrambled to his aircraft, and, dodging incoming mortar rounds, was able to take off on the shell-pocked runway (the only aircraft to get airborne that night) and, using napalm and rockets, single-handedly beat back the advancing armies.

For his actions "above and beyond the call of duty", Lt. "DeGuerre" received the Congressional Medal of Honor in a secret White House ceremony. George H.W. Bush, then CIA Director, pinned the medal on his son.
*Rove News Service

[Vickers]

5. Hahahaha! Excellent thread, classic response from Trof

And the best part:

"Rove News Service"

Har!

[Bowline]

12. ROFLMAO! You should go post this on FR!!!

They would probably throw a party.

[tandot]

7. I thought he received the highest of all honors: the silver spoon

with a load of coke on it...

:evilgrin:

[soup]

9. Yes, the silver spoon up his nose

is a perfect accessory for being born with a silver foot in his mouth.

[NewJeffCT]

8. well, don't forget his quote

I've been to war and I've raised twins. Given the choice, I'd rather got to war...

Or something like that.

[wishlist]

11. We know Bush ran from service, so they have to discredit Kerry too

Every time Bush and Repubs are discredited and can't defend their record, they always smear the Democrats and try to paint them with the same brush. The RW is brilliant at cynically leaving the impression that the Dems really aren't any better and 'It's a wash', even when the Democrats objectively have the superior position.