So Do We Boycott Starbucks?

[rucky]

I was anti-Starbucks for putting the mom & pops out of business.

Then I was pro-Starbucks when I found out they gave benefits for part-time workers and paid competitive wages.

Today I heard on AAR news that the company busted up an attempt to unionize.

Now, I'm a proud member of UFCW, but I'll always support non-union shops that give their employees a living wage. But Starbucks and Whole Foods have both shot down attempts to unionize recently.

So is this a case where the unions are just getting greedy, and we support the businesses anyways? Or do I stick with my union brothers & sisters? I honestly can't imagine them negotiating a better package than what they're getting... so I don't understand why the workers would feel the need to organize, but I also can't understand why the corp would use strongarm tactics to fight it.

here's the IWW release. After reading it, I'm leaning towards a boycott:

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/08/02/7386483

For Immediate Release:
July 29, 2004
IWW IU/660
Contact: Daniel Gross
[phone]

Bush Administration Intervenes for Starbucks Against Union

Right to a Fair Vote Denied

The Bush Administration-controlled National Labor Relations Board accepted for review yesterday an appeal by Starbucks of the IWW IU/660 victory that allowed workers at a single store in the chain to vote in a union certification election. The decision effectively disenfranchises workers because regardless of the outcome of the appeal the result of the election is suspended for several years while the case is being decided.

“Starbucks and its union-busting law firm have succeeded in obliterating our right to a vote,” said Daniel Gross, a worker at the store. “The company has established beyond a shadow of a doubt that it follows an extreme anti-worker union avoidance policy.”

While Starbucks may have won this battle, government certification was merely one tool out of a much larger toolbox for the Union. Utilizing a direct action approach, the Retail Workers Union will continue full steam ahead with the campaign to improve working conditions for Starbucks employees.

The decision by the Republican-majority NLRB is the latest in a series of rulings that have rolled back the right of workers to organize a union. A June 13th decision held that graduate student instructors are not employees and thus not entitled to form a union. Prior to that, the Board rescinded the right of employees outside of a union setting to have a co-worker present at disciplinary meetings.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

1. The Starbucks I worked in was unionized.

I used to work with the guy who unionized it. I think there were only about half-a-dozen unionised shops in existance at that point.

[rastignac5]

2. I boycott them for their crap, overroasted coffee. n/t

[benburch]

6. Amen.

You could never tell the difference between a good bean and a bad one as brunt as their coffee is.

ICK.

[bemildred]

14. Bravo, their coffee sucks.

The best you can say for it is that it's usually better than
well made Folger's, but not much.

[sbj405]

35. I'm glad there are others that agree with me. It's bad.

[WLKjr]

42. Don't Forget to Mention Overpriced

crap. I think I was charged 5 bux once for something that tasted so bad, I can still taste it from time to time in my mouth if I even smell coffee.

Tim Hortons is the way to go.

[bleedingheart]

3. People don't unionize if they are treated fairly

it's just that simple.

I can buy Giant Eagle brand gourmet coffee and for $0.75 I can make a pot of really tasty coffee....

[beyurslf]

4. I don't go to Starbucks because I won't pay 4 bucks for a cup of joe!

[JI7]

5. i don't really go to starbucks because i'm just not into coffee

i don't get the whole coffee thing where people drink a bunch of cups each day. i guess it's just not my thing.

[Joylaughter]

7. Great Question.

I am inspired by your desire to stand with your union brothers and sisters. I am a member of SAG in LA and have often struggled with this question in my work. I think the idea of unions are great against the corporate conglomerate. I also think unions make it hard for independent producers to collaborate with other artists. Sometimes I wonder if the unions aren't just one tool of the corperate conglomerates to drive out small business. Tough questions. If only there were really a sense of community among the "Compassionate conservatives". If only there was some sense of moral and ethical obligation to provide a livable wage for the human resource capital that the bosses exploit for their profits. What a concept. Pay people a fair wage. Then they have money to spend and the economy booms. Expolit the labor and eventually there is a huge majority who cannot afford to consume what is produced by the workforce, excepting of course the bosses who in order to move the goods must then find a new market place - otherwise by bye profits. I hope we move toward real corporate responsibilty - otherwise - Bye Bye Middle Class, hello work camps.

[hughee99]

32. It sounds from the original post, though

that Starbucks is paying a good wage. In this case, it sounds like Starbucks does have a sense of moral or ethical obligation. I know that SAG is a union, but in many ways, it doesn't always seem to operate as a normal union. For example, in a factory, there are 10 workers. The best worker cannot just negociate a better contract (as a top actor or screenwriter could). On the other hand, as long as a worker at the factor meets certain minimum standards, the company cannot fire him either. Now I'm not that familiar with Hollywood, but if you have a REALLY bad writer who is a member of SAG, he is not guaranteed work unless he can produce something that someone is willing to buy. Is this correct? If this is the case, I can see where you might see examples of the corperate conglomerates can "use" unions to drive small competitors out of business, but I don't think these examples would be as easy to find in a more traditional union.

[Joylaughter]

39. U R Correct

Absolutely. Except SAG is for actors and the Writers guild is for Writers. Either way the point is exactly right. SAG in reality is a guild not a union.

[UdoKier]

8. Are you rich or just deep in debt?

I couldn't afford their overpriced crap if I wanted to drink it.

[rucky]

10. I own a mansion and a yacht n/t

[yellowcanine]

9. Some lactating moms had a "nurse in" at a Starbucks in Silver Spring, MD

because Starbucks was trying to make nursing moms use the bathroom to feed junior. One mother said she didn't think a bathroom was an appropriate place to eat. Heh.

[Piperay]

11. I boycott them

because I think their coffee tastes horrible, it tastes burnt to me. :puke:

[Warpy]

12. Companies that are truly good to their workers

that pay a living wage with benefits and treat their workers with respect are in NO danger of being unionized. If a unionization attempt was gaining enough steam to make management hire union busters, then maybe you need to look beyond what you've heard about what they actually offer their rank and file employees.

Unions only get invited in when the boss is a bastard.

(there is one glaring exception: Polartec invited the union in)

[rucky]

16. not always true

Unions have mucho incentive for unionizing as much as possible. Bigger collective = better collective bargaining (and more dues). Unions employ people to organize, they don't necessarily wait around for an invitation. Just like any other organization, part of their function is to grow - preserve the raison d'etre. Part of their tainted reputation is that they go into businesses who do pay fair wages (longshoremen).

Ideally, it would be the case that unions don't go where they're not needed, but that's what's troubling me about this whole Starbucks thing.

[TO Kid]

20. Is Polartec an auto supplier?

The CAW recently bullied Magna into inviting the union in by getting GM to agree to a "union-only" clause in all supplier contracts.

[Cats Against Frist]

13. It's the million dollar question

Since I'm originally from Seattle, Starbucks, of course, is a hot topic. I've had the same delimma, adding also that they were under a lot of heat for not buying fairly traded coffee, and the the fact that sometimes, in some places, they don't offer organic coffee.

I have always heard that they treated their employees well, but there are two considerations.

1. I try not to buy anything "branded," unless that brand first, and foremost symbolizes fair trade, labor fairness, emphasis on American-made products and quality. Starbucks makes the grade, but their coffee isn't always that great, and their trade hasn't always been fair, and according to your post, their labor fairness needs a little work.

2. About the driving out of the "Mom and Pop" stores -- not just Mom and Pop, but other alternative chains -- Starbucks bought SBC in 2002, and hasn't, as of yet, bothered to change the name, or even pretend that if you walk into an SBC, you're walking into a Starbucks. That put some people over the edge.

I don't really know the answer to this question.

[Barret]

15. I work at starbucks

and I don't really see reason to unionize. I get paid 8/hr for a mostly simple job, and we get a free pound of coffee at regular intervals. (which is nice because it can be sold...) We also get benefits.

The pay is pretty good for me considering I never went to college or any trade school. Most un-skilled work places around here pay 5.15/hr.

Overall it's a nice place to work and I'm not unhappy. (nor do I think anyone else at my store is) I have worked at some real hell holes though that should be unionized, so I won't lose any sleep over this.

Though I do think if someone wanted to unionize they should be able to.

[theboss]

17. I like their muffins

And frankly, I think I've earned the right to have a non-politicized muffin once a week.

[rucky]

18. Spending money is political

I didn't make it that way.

[theboss]

19. I'm not saying it's not.....

But I just can't keep track of all the people I am suppose to support and all the people I am supposed to boycott all the time. I'm 30 and have a mortgage now. Once in a while, I just want a muffin.

[Logansquare]

25. It Business Ethics magazine's "Best Corporate Citizens" 4 yrs in a row

http://www.business-ethics.com/100best.htm

I know a number of people who loathe Starbucks (and not just for the overroasting), and I think it really has more to do with their marketed image than with the reality. When I envision Starbucks as a person, I see an obnoxious yuppie wearing a Kabbala string and living in a 2 million dollar "green" mansion with solar panels. The persona of the company is really someone you want to slap.

In reality, the company is not all that bad. Here in Chicago, they *have* run some mom & pop cafes out of business, especially the ones where the tables were dirty and barristas (ugh, that word) were bored art majors who obviously had better things to do than pour some coffee for my sorry bourgeois ass. My neighborhood, which is still largely poor and Hispanic, was without a coffee shop for several years until Starbucks opened a store. Guess what? Even low-income teens like to make kissy face over frappucinos. It's also a popular place to do homework on Sundays when the library is closed.

Folks, GE is evil. (for a definition of "evil" see Welch, Jack or pollution, Hudson River) Starbucks is not, it's just a big, flawed corporation that still tries to be ethical. I still buy lightbulbs and watch NBC, and I bet most of you do as well.

21. see if this influences your decision

http://revbilly.com/index.php

What follows is an argument fora type of nonviolent civil disobedience, followed by a script for a direct action. This particular approach is a variation on the pioneering work of Augusto Boal, in which the public settings that are easily taken for granted, such as stores or sidewalks, are understood to be like theatrical stages. We operate in our daily lives with many of the same dramatic rules that actors follow in a theater or on a movie set. Therefore a political activist can consciously enter such a public space, analyze the motivations, language and plot of the people there, and seek to redirect the presiding drama, becoming an influential actor.

The design of this action came out of recent performances of The Church of Stop Shopping, the political group that I work with, in the Potzdamer Plotz Starbucks and at the Eddie Bauer in the supermall called Arkaden, both in Berlin, Germany -- and also by our work at the Massachusetts Street Starbucks in Lawrence, Kansas, with a 15 student workshop from the university, many of them actors.

The action, called “Death by Latte, a tragedy” will be the distillation of the church’s project of retail intervention. We will act on the simplest idea of it: that we create social change language and place it intentionally where social change language can no longer be purposeful, which is a lot of places nowadays, from this morning’s New York Times to the hushed tracts of mallized space. Sitting here in Brooklyn meditating on “Latte,” it’s clear how our particular advocacy form has a lot to do with the reinstatement of -- talk. (complete script)

http://revbilly.com/revsite/Writings/Death%20by%20Latte.pdf

[enigmatic]

22. I never, ever go to Starbucks..

Starbucks is the Wal-Mart of coffee shops; Tim Horton's and indie coffee shops for me..

[rucky]

23. Tim Horton's needs to move South

to Oregon, more specifically.

100 coffee joints around here and no place to get a doughunt. sheez.

[Hoping4Change]

31. No Donuts? OMG! How do you cope? I didn't know you had

it so rough. How can such a thing thing happen in this day an age? No wonder people go postal.

[webjamn]

24. Tim Horton's is

a subsidiary of Wendy's Inc. Not that it's a bad thing.

[AntiCoup2K4]

26. Actually it might be....

Dave Thomas used to be a frequent guest on the 700 Club with Pat Robertson, before his last triple bacon cheeseburger did him in.

And if Tim Horton's exists south of the 49th parallel, I've never seen one.

[Happy Eddie]

28. Tim Horton's is here

They purchased a Rhode Island-based chain, Bess Eaton, that printed evangelical sayings on their cups (the owner was an Italian Catholic who had a conversion experience some years ago), and went bankrupt early this year. I haven't been in one yet; they're getting positive, but not splendid, reviews amongst my more intrepid friends. They haven't been around here long enough for me to get any sense if they are "good corporate citizens" or not.

I'm not a huge fan of Starbuck's products, but Barret and Logansquare, among others, make the good point that there are outfits out there who are a lot worse.

An earlier post referred to "an obnoxious yuppie wearing a Kabbala string". Forgive my ignorance, but what's that?

And what's SBC that Starbuck's bought and forgot to change the signs on?

[sbj405]

36. They are also in MI

Another reason to visit my folks.

Actually, I was stuck in Niagara Falls, NY and finding a Tim Horton's there made the trip half way decent.

[K8-EEE]

27. I Prefer My Local Indie Cafe, But Starbucks Is Not Like Walmart!

It's the Walmarts of the corporate world that have to go --

Hey anybody out there L.A. way, in the SF Valley, try my pals at Village Joe (Whitsett & Burbank Blvds.) I really think their coffee is the BEST BEST BEST!!

[Beaverhausen]

29. thanks for the tip- I'll check them out.

:hi:

[mondo joe]

30. I Don't See any Reason to Boycott

Starbucks, a generally very good employer and corporate citizen, is in a dispute and they've appealed to the NLRB.

I'm not prepared to boycott them just because they're using the system in place to settle such disputes.

[AmandaRuth]

33. it may interest people to know

that Starbucks is a major Dem donor, and not one of those that gives a lot to repubs and a little to Dems. Nothing to repubs and a lot to Dems. Howard Schultz also hosted Al Gore when he was running for prez and was in Seattle. Starbucks has also hosted talks by Hilary and Al Franklin (to their employees) Pretty cool, i think

[Dem_4_Life]

37. I can't imagine my life without Starbucks...

I know it is expensive but it is one of those things I am addicted to and you can find me inside Starbucks each morning before work unless I am running late.

Howard Schultz of Starbucks is a big DEM supporter and you can see here: http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=WA&last=Schultz&first=Howard

[sbj405]

34. And I thought this was going to be about the breastfeeding

Mom booted for breastfeeding at a Starbucks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50610-2004Aug8.html

[RichardRay]

38. Of course they need to be unionized

The goal of an effective labor movement is to make the return to labor as critical to the success of business as the return to capital.

Starbucks is NOT privately held, they have investors. They are doing a damn good job of being an enlightened corporation, but they are still subject to 'market discipline', which means that as soon as they fall substantially below a return on investment that's competitive with other traded corporations their stockholders will either force a change or take their capital and go elsewhere.

It's only if there is no 'elsewhere' to go that that can be changed, and that means all labor organized and united - no more labor aristocracies, even if they do make a good latte.

Richard Ray - Jackson Hole, WY

[Swamp Rat]

40. For me it's practical.

In New Orleans we have: PJs, Rue deLa Course, Cafe du Monde, Picasso Cafe, Flora's Cafe, etc. and dozens of mom and pop and artist cafes to patronize. The prices are much better, the products are more unique and better, the service is better, the environment is better, and in general the patrons are more interesting.

There is no need to go to a Starbucks here. EVER.

[malachibk]

41. I've been boycotting for 2 years

They charge $8.00 for a cup of coffee (only slight exaggeration). And the coffee stinks!

[natrat]

43. wallmart bad (they treat employees loke slaves)

costco good (big democratic contributor)
Starbucks- i boycott if there is a local alternative