So, what happens if the election is stolen in November?

[EstimatedProphet]

There's been a lot of talk about this lately...
Here's the thing: Bush is dropping like a rock in the polls, and if this trend keeps up, there is no way that the American people will buy into an election theft like last time-it just won't be credible if the numbers are way off in the polls. Yet, we still have Diebold to consider, and I personally think Rove will try everything in his power to stay in power.
So what happens if the polls say 65-35 in favor of Kerry, and there's a surprise upset on election day, and Bush comes out with a 65-35 lead? Or what if it's 70-30? Or 80-20? How do we tell if the election's been stolen, with enough proof on our side to actually do anything about it?
This kind of thing keeps me up at night, sometimes...

[CrispyQ]

1. Welcome to the Revolution.

Revolutionary War II

[EstimatedProphet]

6. Seriously?

I mean, that's an easy thing to say. I like to think that I would do the same thing, and fight. But here's the thing: we say that the 2nd amendment allows guns for protection against the government, but the government has way more guns with way more power behind them- like tanks, planes, full-auto weapons, cluster bombs, etc.
Let's put it this way-the government isn't afraid enough of Joe Average gun owner for that to be a consideration as to whether they will steal another election.

[RC]

15. Have you looked at Iraq lately?

It looks for all the world as if the Iraqis are wining. The U.S. has control of Baghdad, mostly. The oil fields, mostly. And not much else.

[EstimatedProphet]

19. Oh, I agree

Partisan tactics are very effective
But here's the thing:
Iraqis are dead versus US troops at about a 10-1 ratio. They're paying a very high price to keep the US from gaining control.
We like to identify with the idea of freedom fighters, but how would it play here really, if it comes to all of us picking up guns and fighting the government? Even if it comes out that the government is truly illegitimate, would it really lead to a revolution? This is a country where half the people can't be bothered to vote, after all.

[Shadowen]

31. Yes.

And Americans outnumber American troops at nearly 1000-1. And on top of that, it may be easy to "give the sand niggers back what they gave us", but how many people would open fire on someone they saw at a coffee shop the other day? A cousin? An immediate family member?

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. I'm not so sure the Military would stand beside this regime.

I don't know. They HATE Bush. A coup could happen if the people rise up. :shrug:

[CrispyQ]

23. I didn't necessarily mean with guns . . .

...especially since I don't have one. I do think people will take to the streets -- in DC, in their home capitals, everywhere. I also suspect that the Kerry camp has or is working on a contingency plan. Not that any of this will be successful in turning about a rigged election, but the inaugural egg throwing in DC after 2000 will be nothing compared to the uprising this time. I think millions of us have been jolted out of our complacency the last 3 years.

[jukes]

26. tell it to the iraqis

they seem to be doing all right.

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. I'll be there!

:grr:

[SmileyBoy]

38. Not a revolution, but a temporary military coup.

The military would overthrow Bush and his minions and create a type of interim military regime.

The high-ups in the military don't like him.

[Gildor Inglorion]

2. Check out the 2002 Georgia election...plus the preceding day's polls

Very enlightening. Think it can't happen nationwide? Think again!
:nuke:

[EstimatedProphet]

3. Precisely my point

I have no problem believeing that the same people would try this on a national level.

[bobbieinok]

5. and the winning edge was large enuff so that it looked 'ok'

large enuff so that there was no pressure for recounts and close analyses county by county, even precinct by precinct.

[bobbieinok]

4. whatever the polls are, RW radio and media will claim 'very

close' so that they can argue that 'close polls can go either way in the election.'

Also the elections will have W leading by at least 20,000+ votes in 'necessary states'.

IMHO, there was a major error in FL2000. It was not supposed to be close; W was supposed to have clearly won.

It was a major disaster for the RW, because now everyone is looking very closely at every election.

We were not supposed to see behind the curtain.

[EstimatedProphet]

7. Good point

It would have been more believable had * a strong lead

[Lizzie Borden]

10. suppose your'e right but...

I was thinking along the lines of a major tax revolt. You know like witholding income tax. The government does'nt have enough money to prosecute all of us and it doesn't have enough money to build all the new jails it would require to lock us up.

[voice of reason]

20. now this is a reasonable idea

all the notions of an armed revolution are unworkable.

As MLK knew and advocated, nonviolent methods can be far more effective . . . and a hell of a lot less bloddy.

v.o.r.

[jukes]

28. i repeat

the iraqis are def in control.
the vietnamese kicked our butts.


one occupation is the same as any other.

[voice of reason]

33. actually

the NVA (and their Chinese masters) did not kick our butts militarily. It was a political loss of will and recognition that we should NEVER have been there in the first place that led to defunding and eventual withdrawal in disgrace.


v.o.r.

[jukes]

27. plenty of razor-wire, though

& cd hire freeperguards cheap.

[ClassWarrior]

8. This has been on my mind lately too.

There will be plenty of us ready to scream foul - but if they succeed in another theft, what do we DO?? What unified action can we take across the nation? Vigils outside Bush* campaign offices? A general strike? What?? We need to figure this one out.

[TrustingDog]

9. even Diebold can't help him if the numbers are too way low

but the bastid PNACers have all the aces up their sleeves.
Red Alerts can solve all their problems.

I don't think there will be an 'election'. They will not be giving up what they fought for for so many years. Sorry for this so unperky pessimistic thought but I truely believe things will never be the same again.

[EstimatedProphet]

11. A question then

Why can't Diebold help if his numbers are too low? That's exactly what did happen in 2002 Georgia to Cleland.
And unfortunately, I think there's a case for what you said about no election, especially with Ashcroft and Ridge both looking into excuses to postpone the election...

[TrustingDog]

16. a lot has happened in opening eyes about the election machines...

since 2002.
thanks to Bev Harris and all others involved, eyebrows are being raised.

Bush's pop is dropping - a known. Can't say what the truthfull point spread is right now between him and Kerry - but even the begrudging corporate government sponsored pigmedia are accepting some facts, tho in tiny baby steps.

[ClassWarrior]

22. Fine - let's hope we never have to put Plan B into action...

...but we do have to HAVE a Plan B!!

[EstimatedProphet]

25. No argument there either n/t

[tom_paine]

29. If there is to be a Plan B, discussing it on SS-monitored DU is not wise

DU is thoroughly monitored by the Bushevik SS and SA Brownshirts.

Just ask Bev Harris.

[BiggJawn]

35. You forgot to say....

"Hi Agent Mike!"

Hi, Agent Mike, how they hangin' Bud?

[tom_paine]

39. Wups! Big shout out to SS Man Mike!

I'd like to know Mike, are you happy or sad that this time around the SS is forced to be kinder and gentler (for now)?

Be honest, now...

[Karenina]

46. We expats were talking about this yesterday

as we looked on in continuing and increasing horror... WHAT IS plan B?
It's clear the PNAC crew will not go quietly into that dark night even if the results, despite their fucking machines, are 90/10. Ceding control is NOT on their "things to do" list. There's hardly any way their *boy can reasonably be expected to win even a rigged election, NOT from what we're able to observe. We are dealing with a *crew who have NEVER let mere "elections" stop their onslaught. (May Hugo Chavez piss in their faces and show us the way). But WHAT IS PLAN B????

[Cleita]

12. There won't be a stolen election this time.

Two many eyes are watching every step. What could happen is a cancelled or postponed election or an assassination of one of the candidates. I think the terror alerts are a prequel and set up to these possible events.

[EstimatedProphet]

14. I could certainly see that too

As a matter of fact, the only thing I can't see happenning these days is that Bush just loses and steps down, like in a normal election!

[voice of reason]

21. I actually believe

He will peacefully step down and hand over power to Kerry. He will have no choice.

But, I've been wrong before.

v.o.r.

[Barret]

36. Not possible

under the constitution the president can't just "step down" and assign a new president. The VP would have to take power... and after that, well you know succession.

[voice of reason]

41. us, you misunderstood me

I was replying to a post that said that he would just lose. I agreed that after losing he would step down peacefully and hand over reigns to Kerry. Not that he would steal the election and then, when faced wih popular revolt, would hand it to Kerry. I have no idea how it would actually play out in that second scenario, but know it wouldn't be pretty.

v.o.r.

[ClassWarrior]

24. Again, fine. I'd rather not have to do anything.

But WE NEED TO BE PREPARED WITH A PLAN if they DO steal it again.

[jukes]

30. ClassWarrior

PM

[Kanary]

34. That's really eerie, Cleita....

A neighbor of mine, who is into psychics and such (I'm not), says there is a prediction that * won't live past the fall.

Guess I just have to see what happens.

Kanary

[Cleita]

37. Well, I don't think anyone can predict the future.

We can predict probabilities though with the facts that we have at hand with pretty good accuracy if we take in every factor at play. It still is only guesswork though. Yes, we will have to wait and see.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

13. I think we'll see marching and rioting

especially if the disenfranchisement of voters happens again on a large scale.

[Qutzupalotl]

32. General strike.

There was talk of a general strike or sickout--everybody take Nov. 3 off. Keep it up as long as you can.

[archineas]

42. faith

i have faith that, in the long run, the system which has stood since the late 1700's will hold. i believe that you can attempt to subjugate the will of the people, but the american system itself is proof that the people can, and will when necessary, win.

in my heart, i don't believe this election will be 'stolen'. even if it were, would anyone on the right actually believe that it had been? would they join in with the protests or the riots? i don't believe they would.

i believe the real race is the congress, especially the senate. a democratic senate, even if the house is republican, holds the key to judicial nominations and has the ability to stifle and block much of the policy proposals which would be far to the right.

j

[ClassWarrior]

44. Who cares if anyone on the right believes it or not?

They still believe that Clinton had Vince Foster killed. I don't even think that the more than half of the voters who pull the lever for Kerry will participate. But all it takes to change the world is a small dedicated group of people (with props to Margaret Mead).

[dorktv]

40. A second Civil War, only this time it will be the ordinary people

who secede from the union. I also think that A LOT of returning soldiers will be helping out in the fight.

[AmandaRuth]

43. another thing

if boosh wins the popular vote but loses the electoral college (opposite of what happened the last time) the right wing will be all ready to roll a big ole production number that will blow away all other manufactured right wing noise productions (Clinton impeachment), starring all the big names, rush, o really, savage plus thousands of local hate radio hosts to overturn the election, as it is the "will of the people". Of course it will not work, but we should be aware of this.

[ClassWarrior]

45. In that case, we can throw their own hypocritical arguements back at 'em.