Why are DUers defensive when someone asks a question Freepers are asking?

[zaj]

I spend a good deal of time online fighting the good fight. And often that involves making Freepers look bad when they spout talking points.

I often come here looking for information to help in that cause. And almost everytime, I find a thread from someone asking the same kind of question (ie, "Why did Kerry say he was in Cambodia... what's the story?").

All too often, 1/2 the posts on such a thread is from DUers trying to out me (or the other person) as a Undercover Freeper.

I get the feeling that many DUers don't understand the value/need for Kerry supporters to ask the same questions Freepers are asking, in order to learn the real answers, and use the info to smack around those Freepers we encounter them.

[K-W]

1. because alot of those posts are trolls nt

[Kanary]

5. "knowing we could do much better"

Means not attacking and labeling without first some understanding.......

Kanary

[K-W]

7. Using an internet forum means

knowing when not to get sucked into troll traps. I am here to discuss liberal politics, not to exercise free love for all posters.

[Kanary]

8. Hey, great........ so attack freely........

Then wonder why so many people say to heck with politics.

I'll give my answer again.... a lot of free floating anger searching for a target.

Kanary

[K-W]

9. Why do you spin my words?

It seems to go against your point that you would try to paint me as saying that we should attack everyone when my point is that we dont need to go out of our way to assume that trollish posts arent trolls.

[Kanary]

11. "I am here to discuss liberal politics, not to exercise free love for all"

You talk tough, and accuse me of "spinning"?

I reread your post, and it seems quite clear to me.

Kanary

[K-W]

16. Im at a loss here. I cant comprehend how you could misread so badly.

How on earth could you read what I wrote and come out thinking that I was suggesting that we should attack everyone.

This thread is about the people who come on and post threads with conservative talking points. The main poster is wondering why they get negative reactions, when they are just people who want responses to use.

You are most certainly right that in alot of cases, people mislable such posters as trolls and react unfairly. My point was simply that plenty of these posters are also trolls and that we do ourselves and the forum a disservice if we allow trolls to disrupt the forum.

You suggested that somehow I was being unfair by "labling without understanding" My point is that in the case of trolls there is nothing to understand. Certainly one shouldnt jump down everyones throat who sounds a little trollish, but we also shouldnt trip over our feet running to give trolls the benefit of the doubt.

I am here to discuss politics, not to be a forum charity worker. I am certainly willing to be helpful and civil, but you seemed to be suggesting that if I wasnt giving an infinate benefit of the doubt I was doing something wrong.

Then you act as though I am advocating a less civil, attack filled forum, which I have never suggested or implied. You are twisting my words and not giving me the benefit of the doubt, which is rather ironic considering that you were seemingly scolding me for my cvility.

[Mr_Lefty]

14. I think you are 100% correct

Most of the "help me debunk this" smell like freeper armpit- they post the whole load of crap and say help me I have no brain...

[Kanary]

2. There's a lot of free-floating anger looking for convenient targets.

[RetroLounge]

17. Such as yours? You seem to pop up quite a bit

when talk turns to trolls.

Why is that? Just asking...

RL

[hang a left]

3. I think the reason is the length of time DUers have

spent agonizing over this *administration and their crimes. And, your right, just a little more tolerance should be extended. I am just as guilty as the next gal.

[GregW]

4. Because most of the questions ARE asked by trolls and moles

They spout the same requests for information to counter an 'email' or 'discussion' or 'letter' they have just received that needs 'debunking'.

Dozens of DUers get to work like happy little lemmings* and Bingo! Hundreds of hours of productive DU time is wasted. It really is a game to them.

Sorry if you get inadvertently accused ... we're a bit sensitive to the whole troll/mole situation right now.

(* - I realize that lemmings diving into the sea is a Disney myth)

[CatWoman]

6. GET EM!!!!! HE'S TALKING FREEPER TALK!!!!!!

:D

[NightOwwl]

10. Because why should DU'ers

be expected to do the research for them? That's what Google is for.

[Kanary]

12. Then why have a forum at all?

Everyone stay to themselves, and do the best they can on their own?

This Rugged Individualism shit is doing us in.

Kanary

[CatWoman]

15. Kanary -- you need to calm the fuck down

just an observation.

[Kanary]

21. How.... insightful.....

[CatWoman]

24. You do!!!

you've been on a tear all day.

You've been pissing in threads non stop.

I'm still trying to figure out what you're upset about :shrug:

[Kanary]

27. ohhhhhhhh, is that why you gave me a few *positive* replies????

Y'know........ it's so very interesting..... I've got a list of my replies..... a whole bunch of positive things I've said, and hardly ANY response to those.

Anything I say that is disagreeing, and it gets LOADS of responses.

DUers LOVE SHIT.

They LOVE TO FIGHT.

They LOVE TO ACCUSE each other of being FREEPERS.

"I'm still trying to figure out what you're upset about"

Y'know, if there was an atmosphere here where people could actually talk about those things, and get some understanding and support, I suspect you'd see a lot different results in people actually working more in politics. But, DUers are much happier confronting and criticising and fighting.

Go figure.

Kanary

[NightOwwl]

30. Just because someone doesn't respond your post

doesn't mean they are ignoring what you have to say. I read hundreds of posts a day on this board...I don't have time to respond to all of them. But it's not because I don't think they are intelligent or witty, or positive, or negative. I respond by thinking. Or laughing. Or crying.

But now you are baiting people, that's why you are getting lot of responses.

[Kanary]

31. You missed the point. DUers LOOK for

something to jump on. They don't have time for interesting points, or different thoughts, or the need to be supportive. But they ALWAYS have time to jump on someone. The time comes to look at that process.

The original poster asked an honest question. Reasonable question. It was taken as just one more opening to jump on "freepers", instead of asking, "Hmmm, do we need to take another look at this....?" The time comes to look inside sometimes.

Chasing people off with attacks of "freeper" does NOTHING to strengthen the party.

You can choose to look at that as "bait", or you can choose to give it some thought, and decide of there are things to look at more closely.

Kanary

[synthia]

33. and you are nasty

just an observation

[RetroLounge]

19. Then why are you even here if this forum is so bad?

Just an question

RL

[K-W]

20. You are being awefully unfair to people on this thread.

All the while lecturing them on fairness and civility.

Forums are for discussion, the point of this forum is not to provide a research service for anyone.

[Kanary]

28. What's "unfair"....... constantly demanding that people do more and more

The assumption is always that people aren't doing enough.

NOBODY can do it all. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON CAN DO IT ALL ALONE!

Yet, anyone who actually asks for some help, if it isn't put in just the right words, gets slammed as a "freeper".

At some point, you have to decide just how much of a "united" organization you really want.

Fair? Come together and actually work together, rather than always looking for what's wrong with someone else, and how to shove them out.

I've been called a freeper, and a "fringe leftie", neither worthy of consideration. How the hell can I be both? Logic doesn't matter, just pin a lable and toss someone out. The same as the original poster of this thread. As a real question, and get dumped on.

Yet, the blame is constantly on the RW for making our lives miserable. The time comes to look at our own selves, and how we're colluding in our own downfall. The DEMs are not blameless in all this.

Kanary
edited to say, I don't know anything about the original poster, but I fully sympathize with the sentiments posted.

[NightOwwl]

22. Well, I'm here to discuss ideas, exchange opinions,

and *gasp* have fun with my fellow Democrats.

I am not here to do someone's homework for them.

[RandomKoolzip]

13. Why do you get upset when somebody shits in your sandwich?

Same thing.

[Padraig18]

18. Because a significant percentage of the time they ARE Freepers, that's why

:wtf:

[qwertyMike]

23. So Kerry was in Cambodia

Ask Kissinger why

[The Crazy Canadian]

25. I agree.

Some of the DUers here get pretty defensive, but don't worry about them. I think it's healthy to consider other opinions and questions that don't follow the party line.

I'm new to DU so i've been accused by some to be an undercover freeper but mostly they are freindly and welcome you to stay.

[ilovenicepeople]

29. HOWDY

are you really "THE" crazy Canadian? :hi:

[K-W]

26. it also depends ALOT on how you phrase it.

If your post is just a right wing talking point, it really is your fault that you get seen as a freeper.

Also if you are impolite. ie: "Debunk this talking point" especially when it is something where the debunking is available online.

If you have a conservative talking point that you are having a hard time with, first you do your own research. If that doesnt work you post something along these lines:

"Hey, ive been having trouble with this talking point, I cant find a debunking online, id appreciate it if you could help me out, thanks. Here is the argument i made so far..."

If you do that, and it doesnt seem to suspicious, I dont think many will have a problem with the post.

[synthia]

32. where do you find debunking online?

when the talking point questions are posted, i always check them out.
and what the heck is wrong with asking here, first? that's research too, you know.

[NightOwwl]

35. Let's say you want to debunk the Kerry flip-flop accusation.

Use Google search with the keywords:

kerry +flip-flop +accusation +debunk

The + means AND, so the search results will only contain links to articles containing all of the search keywords.

So, say you get results, but lots of the links point to freeper posts, add -freeper to your search keywords.

The - tells Google not to return any links that contain the word freeper. So you can narrow down searches that way.

In answer to your question, I don't think it's my responsibility to do your research. Besides, there is a ton of information on the Web and you'll learn a lot by getting out there and finding these things yourself. Now my question to you would be, why would you want someone else to do the legwork for you in the first place?

[LuminousX]

34. Remember, often times the question is a distraction

and it doesn't really matter.