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A primer on Leo Strauss the Guru of the PNAC gangsters.

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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:37 PM
Original message
A primer on Leo Strauss the Guru of the PNAC gangsters.
Leo Strauss who used to be Wolfowitz's teacher at the University of Chicago is credited with developing many of the ideas that the PNAC gangsters are using to shape American policy in the Middle East and elsewhere.Here are a few nuggets of his wisdom:

1.Democracy is not a very efficient or even a good political system.
2.The system that should supersede American style Democracy is one
in which the Elite rule.And the Masses follow.
3.The Elite are entitled to rule because they understand that life
is a constant struggle and only the fittest and the most
intelligent can survive.The Masses on the other hand want to waste
their time on amusements, families and their daily grinds and are
happy doing so. To give them political power through a real
democracy as in America would amount to national suicide.
4.The Elite should control the Masses through the use of The Noble
Lie.All lies uttered by the Elite to extract obedience from the
Masses are Noble Lies.

There is more, but you get the general idea.That this man is venerated by the likes of Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz along with their PNAC cronies Kristol, Kagan and Perle is a story in and of itself.Now do we understand where the constant stream of lies come from? And why the Supreme Court handed over power to a worthless
fratboy?
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd recommend the article from last month's Harpers to anyone
who wants to know more about Strauss.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Great article.Highly recommend it.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. and the article
probably has a link to it.

i bet it starts with www. ...
dp
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I am sorry I was not able to find a link.I read Harper's at our local
library and was negligent in making copies. Will try to post a link if I find it.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. This tiny snippet is all I could dredge up
http://www.cpe-sf.com/ruthgroup/2004/05/neocons-strauss-deception.html

Unfortunately Harpers Magazine doesn't put much content on line; unfortunate because Earl Shorris has a great piece in the June issue: Ignoble Liars: Leo Strauss, George Bush, and the philosophy of mass deception. Here is a small sample.



...had disciples, and disciples have two duties: to sit at the feet of the master and to spread the word of his wisdom. The "Straussians" have excelled at their work, for Leo Strauss is the most widely discussed writer on philosopy in our time...

His disciples in turn methodically infected and then corrupted the government of the most powerful nation on earth. They have done so not only recently but since first touching the Reagan Administration a quarter of a century ago-- in social policy and politics initially, then more particularly in the Department of Defense, until now there appears to be no end to the damage that is being done in the name of Leo Strauss...

Leo Strauss is more difficult to read than almost anyone, including Wittgenstein, Heidegger, and Joyce at his most involuted and eloquent. The reason for the difficulty grows out of Strauss's intent: He believed in what you and I would call bad writing. He buttered it with the word "esoteric," but "bad" is the right word, unless you prefer "lousy." Here is a man who did not want to be understood by any but the few, his disciples. Obscurantism is a conceit and it is an old technique. Every religion througout history has used it.... He had no desire to be intelligible; on the contrary, if his work was to have any effect in the world it would be only as his disciples shaped it to fit the time. They were not marketers, these disciples. If Strauss had taught them anything, it was arrogance; they would remake the world in their own image.

For the uninitiated, "contradiction" is the key to the Straussian approach, and more than anything else it defines the Bush regime and its circle of influentials...

One of the great services that Strauss and his disciples have performed for the Bush regime has been the provision of a philosophy of the noble lie, the conviction that lies, far from being a regrettable necessity of political life, are instead virtuous and noble instruments of wise policy. The idea's provence could not be more elevated: Plato himself advised his nobles, men with golden souls, to tell noble lies -- political fables, much like the spectre of Saddam Husssein with a nucler bomb-- to keep the other levels of human society (silver, iron, brass) in their proper places, loyal to the state and willing to do its bidding. Strauss, too, advised the telling of noble lies in the service of the national interest, and he held Plato's view of aristocrats as person so virtuous that such lies would be used for the good, for keeping order in the state and in the world. He defined the modern method of the noble lie in the use of esoteric messages within an esoteric text, telling the truth to the wise while at the same time conveying something quite different to the many....


Shorris shows us in his net, Strauss, Plato, William Kristol, Nietzsche, power, lies (good lies -- by the nobles; bad lies -- by ordinary folks)


The Straussains say the greatest danger to the United States comes not only from weakness in the face of enemies but also from the failure to believe in its own superiority.


Did I mention: Read Harpers, June 2004 -- Iraqi resistance fighter on the cover-- ?
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. i have contacted someone
about a copy, if it comes thru, can email to others, or supply the email address for a copy, if it works.
copyrighted material, so not sure what i will obtain.

dp
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. I have acquired the pdf of the story from Harpers
PM me for copy from me via email, or for the email address of the source who provided me and he can pass it along.
1.5mb pdf file

dp
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The Crazy Canadian Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Has anyone ever hear Kerry talk about PNAC or Neoconservatives?
I think Kerry should talk about the Office of Special Plans and how they lied the nation to war. That'll put the Bush Admin. on the defensive. But i doubt he'll go that far.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I don't think Kerry will talk about PNAC or OSP.Because he is playing
a tactical game against the GOP.I suggest we lay off Kerry on this issue until after the elections.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Here. This gives a good look at Strauss.
:scared:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

The Despoiling of America


How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State




By Katherine Yurica



With Editorial and Research Assistant Laurie Hall



February 11, 2004


<snip>As Antonin Scalia, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court explained a few months later, the Bible teaches and Christians believe “… that government …derives its moral authority from God. Government is the ‘minister of God’ with powers to ‘revenge,’ to ‘execute wrath,’ including even wrath by the sword…”<3>



George W. Bush began to wield the sword of God’s revenge with relish from the beginning of his administration, but most of us missed the sword play. I have taken the liberty to paraphrase an illustration from Leo Strauss, the father of the neo-conservative movement, which gives us a clue of how the hiding is done:





“One ought not to say to those whom one wants to kill, ‘Give me your votes, because your votes will enable me to kill you and I want to kill you,’ but merely, ‘Give me your votes,’ for once you have the power of the votes in your hand, you can satisfy your desire.”<4>





Notwithstanding the advice, the President’s foreign policy revealed a flair for saber rattling. He warned the world that “nations are either with us or they’re against us!” His speeches, often containing allusions to biblical passages, were spoken with the certainty of a man who holds the authority of God’s wrath on earth, for he not only challenged the evil nations of the world, singling out Iraq, Syria, Iran, and North Korea as the “axis of evil,” but he wielded the sword of punishment and the sword of revenge against his own people: the American poor and the middle class who according to the religious right have earned God’s wrath by their licentiousness and undisciplined lives.<snip>




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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. more links
One more time: LEO STRAUSS AND THE NEO-CONS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=7200&forum=DCForumID70&archive=yes
WAKE UP! - Strauss / Neocons and Terror PLUS dire warnings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1780890#1781801

Leo Strauss and the Noble Lie: The Neo-Cons at War
http://www.logosjournal.com/mason.htm

Straussian.net -- Leo Strauss and the History of Political Thought
(with Discussion Forums! Book Reviews and a News Blog)
http://www2.bc.edu/~wilsonop/strauss.html

Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception
By Jim Lobe, AlterNet. Posted May 19, 2003.
http://www.alternet.org/story/15935
linked to from this thread: Has Straussian ideology permeated the GOP?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2121269#2122935
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Racenut20 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. No quotation marks ? Is this paraphrased ?
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. What was their textbook, "Mein Kampf"?
Those ideas are all set out by Hitler in his handbook of Nazism.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I liken the PNAC document authored by Wolfowiz, Kagan and
Kristol to the Mein Kampf of the Bush Administration.It has all the elements including the nuggets of Straussian wisdom strewn around it.It even advocates gene warfare against arabs by producing designer viruses that are gene specific.All in all a feast for the neocon eyes.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I wouldn't put it past Old Leo to steal from his mentor,
Old Adolf himself and pass off Adolf's ideas as his own.After all, when we are talking about Noble Lies what is a little plagiarism,especially when it serves your purpose?
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. Hitler a mentor of Strauss?
Though i think of Strauss as a "nazi philosopher", and i know he mingled in intellectual circles surrounding the Hitler administration, it is new to me that he got ideas from Hitler. Do you have sources for that?
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. I did not intend to say that Hitler was a mentor of Strauss in the literal
sense;I was responding to another poster's statement that Straussian views resemble Hitler's views in Mein Kampf.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for posting!
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Clue: The Classics Department (STRAUSS, PAGLIA, HANSON, NIETZSCHE)
A (multi-)re-post.

NIEZSCHE is one of a group who are often portrayed as strange, impenetrable, and on some weird and original tangent all their own, when the secret that binds ALL of these seeming mavericks ---NIETZSCHE, STRAUSS, PAGLIA, and Victor Davis HANSON (CHEENEE's guru)--- is the CLASSICS Department, the pre-Christian values they are INDIVIDUALLY steeped in ---and wanted to be a part of, literally.

It's not that NIETZSCHE "influenced" the ones after him, it's that EACH of these WENT BACK individually to the Ancients. They want to live by the "strong" pre-Christian values of STRENGH, physical force/domination, PRIDE ("gloating") as opposed to the "weak" values of humility, mercy, turning the other cheek.

And it's NOT that NIEZCHE was a proto-Nazi. Richard WAGNER *was* one and NIETZSCHE broke with him. After he went into his mental helplessness his unintellectual sister took control of his body and dressed him as a prophet, literally, with people visiting to pay obeissance, which would have REPELLED him, and herself courted the proto-Nazis according to her own small understanding of him, or just for her self-interest.

CHEENEE did a little dance right before the Iraq attack, presenting Victor Davis HANSON to the media as his guru. This dude has been laying out the PNAC working plans for public consumption, the two-pronged thing of active war (preemptive/proactive) plus "noble goals" (forcing democracy on others). His role has been to dig up historical examples as precedents for what the PNAC-ers want to do anyway.

Here's HANSON giving marching orders for the Iraq attack:

********QUOTE*******

Full HANSON archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp

Nat'l Cathedral: (History or Hysteria?) http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson032803.asp
.... In disgust at the hysteria, I took a drive to Washington to the National Cathedral on Sunday. Big mistake. All except one of the entrances were closed due to security concerns. I walked in under the wonderful sculptures of Frederick Hart, an authentic American genius who almost single-handedly restored classical realism to American sculpture. A small statue of a kneeling Lincoln, who sent thousands into battle to eradicate slavery, was in the corner. A plaque of quotations from Churchill, about the need for sacrifice in war, was on the wall. So I was feeling somewhat good again — until I heard the pious sermon on “shock and awe.” In pompous tones the minister was deprecating the war effort, calling down calumnies upon the administration, and alleging the immoral nature of our nation at war.

Such a strange man at such a strange time, I thought. His entire congregation, by its own admission, is in danger from foreign terrorists (why else bar the gates?). His church is itself a monument to the utility of force for moral purposes. His own existence as a free-speaking, freely worshiping man of God is possible only thanks to the United States military — whose present mission he was openly deriding at the country’s national shrine. ....
*************UNQUOTE********
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. "I am a parade"
Here's a whimsical, but prescient, capturing of what goes on with the Classics types:

******QUOTE*****

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum
Music: Stephen Sondheim Lyrics: Stephen Sondheim Book: Larry Gelbart + Burt Shevelove Film: 1966

"Bring Me My Bride" (I, Miles Gloriosus)
http://libretto.musicals.ru/text.php?textid=5&language=1

....Let haste be made,
I cannot be delayed!
There are lands to conquer,
Cities to loot
And people to degrade!

SOLDIERS
Look at those arms!
Look at that chest!
Look at them!

MILES
Not to mention the rest!
Even I am impressed. ....

SOLDIERS
Look at that foot!
Look at that heel!
Mark the magnificent muscles of steel!

MILES
I am my ideal! ....

MILES
COURTESANS
I, Miles Gloriosus,
I, Paragon of virtues,
Him, Miles Gloriosus
Him, Paragon of virtues,

SOLDIERS
A man among men!
With sword and with pen!

MILES
I, in war the most admired,
In wit the most inspired,
In love the most desired,
In dress the best displayed,
I am a parade! ....

*****UNQUOTE****
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berry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
39. Maybe add Donald Kagan (Yale Classics Dept) to your list too?
His son Robert (not a classicist, but a neo-con) is the more vocal one, though--at least he's in the media more.

Your point on the classics is one I hadn't thought of, but it rings very true. And thought-provoking.

Thanks too for that Hanson excerpt. I've been repelled by his ideas for a long time, but this is beyond repellent. Not surprising, I guess, but one needs to read things like this to be reminded of just how bad they are.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Thanks. And as for "Repellent," Try This HANSON
Here's an example of how NIETZSCHE was distorted by the Nazis, with HANSON giving his views on Mexican immigration, "Mexifornia", (not "racist" despite whether we agree or disagree), with wingnut racists taking over his word for their own purposes:

**********QUOTE********
Mexifornia: http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_2_do_we_want.html
Thousands arrive illegally from Mexico into California each year—and the state is now home to fully 40 percent of America’s immigrants, legal and illegal. They come in such numbers because a tacit alliance of Right and Left has created an open-borders policy, aimed at keeping wage labor cheap and social problems ever fresh, so that the ministrations of Chicano studies professors, La Raza activists, and all the other self-appointed defenders of group causes will never be unneeded. ....

And while the Democrats think the illegals will eventually turn into liberal voters, the actual Hispanic vote so far remains just a small fraction of the eligible Mexican-American pool: of the 14,173 residents of the central California town of Hanford who identified themselves as Latino (34 percent of the town’s population), for example, only 770 are registered to vote.

My sleepy hometown of Selma, California, is in the dead center of all this. ....It is a schizophrenic existence, living at illegal immigration’s intersection. Each week I pick up trash, dirty diapers, even sofas and old beds dumped in our orchard by illegal aliens—only to call a Mexican-American sheriff who empathizes when I show him the evidence of Spanish names and addresses on bills and letters scattered among the trash. ....

Yet I also walk through vineyards at 7 AM in the fog and see whole families from Mexico, hard at work in the cold—while the native-born unemployed of all races will not—and cannot—prune a single vine. By natural selection, we are getting some of the most intelligent and industrious people in the world, people who have the courage to cross the border, the tenacity to stay—and, if not assimilated, the potential to cost the state far, far more than they can contribute. ....

Our elites do not understand just how rare consensual government is in the history of civilization, and therefore they wrongly think that they can instill confidence by praising the other, less successful, cultures that aliens are escaping from rather than explaining the dynamism and morality of the civilization that they have voted for with their feet. ....
*****UNQUOTE****

The racists:
from this website: http://www.bustamanteno.com/Lawlessness.html comes this:
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. a neo-con praise of Strauss
IN CONTEMPORARY American intellectual life, there is only one school of conservative intellectuals that has taken root in academia as a movement. They are the Straussians, followers of the late Leo Strauss (1899-1973). The hostile New Republic referred to Straussians as "one of the top ten gangs of the millennium." Strauss is an ambiguous, sometimes even troubling, figure, but he is essential to the conservative revival of our time and he offers the intellectual depth we are so desperately in need of. As a crude measure of his importance for those readers who continue to believe that philosophical matters are of no practical importance, consider the following list of his students or students of his students: Justice Clarence Thomas; Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork; Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz; former Assistant Secretary of State Alan Keyes; former Secretary of Education William Bennett; Weekly Standard editor and former Quayle Chief of Staff William Kristol; Allan Bloom, author of The Closing of the American Mind; former New York Post editorials editor John Podhoretz; former National Endowment for the Humanities Deputy Chairman John T. Agresto; and, not meaning to class myself with this august company but in the interests of full disclosure, myself.

The great significance of Strauss for mainstream conservatives is that his is the deepest philosophical analysis of what is wrong with liberalism. Technocratic, legalistic, and empirical criticism of liberalism is all very well, but it is not enough. He believes that contemporary liberalism is the logical outcome of the philosophical principles of modernity, taken to their extremes. In some sense, modernity itself is the problem. Strauss believed that liberalism, as practiced in the advanced nations of the West in the 20th century, contains within it an intrinsic tendency towards relativism, which leads to nihilism. He first experienced this crisis in his native Germany’s Weimar Republic of the 1920s, in which the liberal state was so ultra-tolerant that it tolerated the Communists and Nazis who eventually destroyed it and tolerated the moral disorder that turned ordinary Germans against it. A Jew, he fled Germany in 1938. We see this problem repeated today in the multiculturalism that sanctions the importation into the West of Moslem fundamentalists whose foremost aim is the destruction of the Western society that makes that tolerance possible, and in an America so frightened of offending anyone that it refuses to carry out the basic duty of any normal state to guard its own borders.

much more....

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1233


ESPECIALLY NOTE THE LIST OF STUDENTS

consider the following list of his students or students of his students: Justice Clarence Thomas; Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork; Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz; former Assistant Secretary of State Alan Keyes; former Secretary of Education William Bennett; Weekly Standard editor and former Quayle Chief of Staff William Kristol; Allan Bloom, author of The Closing of the American Mind; former New York Post editorials editor John Podhoretz; former National Endowment for the Humanities Deputy Chairman John T. Agresto; and, not meaning to class myself with this august company but in the interests of full disclosure, myself.

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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. a negative view of Strauss
....

Shadia Drury, author of 1999's 'Leo Strauss and the American Right', says Hersh is right on the second count but dead wrong on the first.

''Strauss was neither a liberal nor a democrat,'' she said in a telephone interview from her office at the University of Calgary in Canada. ''Perpetual deception of the citizens by those in power is critical (in Strauss's view) because they need to be led, and they need strong rulers to tell them what's good for them.''

''The Weimar Republic (in Germany) was his model of liberal democracy for which he had huge contempt,'' added Drury. Liberalism in Weimar, in Strauss's view, led ultimately to the Nazi Holocaust against the Jews.

Like Plato, Strauss taught that within societies, ''some are fit to lead, and others to be led'', according to Drury. But, unlike Plato, who believed that leaders had to be people with such high moral standards that they could resist the temptations of power, Strauss thought that ''those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right, the right of the superior to rule over the inferior''.

For Strauss, ''religion is the glue that holds society together'', said Drury, who added that Irving Kristol, among other neo-conservatives, has argued that separating church and state was the biggest mistake made by the founders of the U.S. republic.

''Secular society in their view is the worst possible thing'', because it leads to individualism, liberalism and relativism, precisely those traits that might encourage dissent, which in turn could dangerously weaken society's ability to cope with external threats. ''You want a crowd that you can manipulate like putty,'' according to Drury.

much more........


http://www.truthout.com/docs_03/050903I.shtml
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. No wonder I hate these arrogant fucks so much
Leo Strauss and his ilk are destined to reside in the trash heap of humankind eventually. The sooner the better.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Why are you sure of this?
You speak so emphatically:
Leo Strauss and his ilk are destined to reside in the trash heap of humankind eventually.

What makes you so sure?

Who can be the masters of men who are not master's of themselves?
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. The surety of my response to the Leo Strauss's of the world
comes mainly from the initial revulsion to that particular line of thinking. The fact that these self appointed debauchers of human dignity foist themselves upon the rest of us as our pre-ordained masters was enough to initiate my gag reflex. Was this the mindset of our founding fathers back when they took it upon themselves to forge a new nation from oppression of the English Monarchy? That they would need to govern the masses by use of the "Noble Lie"? Somehow I think that was not their guiding principle. How far have we strayed from those principles that were first penned in the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights. The right of the governed to be the masters of their own destiny and to appoint or remove those who would govern as we see fit. I am utterly revulsed by the Straussian beliefs that are seemingly held in such high esteem by the current neo-con junta in Washington.
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lottie244 Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. Better yet, search him out on the Internet.
More info than you want to know.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. With all the lying, wars and killings this crazy old SOB has been
responsible for, you would think that our news media, both print and TV, would find the time to educate our people on what a pernicious fuck this guy is and how his so called students have blood on their hands for sending young men to their deaths based on their Noble Lies.And you would be sadly mistaken.I have not come across any program on mainstream TV or our socalled newspapers of record, both NYT and WaPo, that examine this guy's cockamamie unamerican ideas.

The elitist notion that these people are entitled to lie to the American people is a completely new notion on the American political scene. Even Richard Nixon, the consummate liar that he was, never ventured to go so far.Assuming that this was their MO from day one,who is to say that each event that triggered the ascension of Bush to the Presidency,the 9/11 event, the War on Iraq, and all the events surrounding these were not the socalled Noble Lies?After the Abu Ghraib scandals not one voice has been raised either on the Democratic or Republican side for impeachment or War Crimes Trials of all the adherents of the Straussian philosophy who, I am sure, had a hand in our abrogation of international laws.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. 'elitist right to lie' is NOT a new notion

"Journalist Walter Lippman in 1921 concluded the art of democracy requires the manufacture of consent. Linguist Noam Chomsky calls the term an Orwellian euphemism for thought control.
Chomsky describes the manufacture of consent: "Democracy permits the voice of the people to be heard, and it is the task of the intellectual to ensure that this voice endorses what leaders perceive to be the right course." "
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Manufacture_of_consent


Chomsky borrowed the term "manufacture of consent" from Lippman, for his book "Manufacturing Consent: a propaganda model", which is a transcript with many additions, to the documentary "Manufacturing Consent: Chomsky and the media" which is a collection of lectures, interviews and debates on the subject of the formation of public opinion.

The mainstream media are owned by those (trans-national corporate conglomerates) who have an interest in the formation of public opinion (full-out capitalism = good), that's why the media do not educate the people.
Fox News is just an extreme example (as shown in "Outfoxed") - it is not fundamentally new. It has been like that for a long time. These days more people are becoming aware of it because 'the Straussians' have taken it to an extreme.
In fact it goes back at least as far as the English civil war the 17th century.

Of course the whole notion of having to lie to the people is fundamentally anti-democratic. That is why many argue that the real political split is not along left versus right, but along democracy versus despotism.


"Manufacturing Consent" the documentary may be freely distributed for educational purposes, it is available on the net via bittorrent.

www.chomksy.info
www.zmag.org/chomsky/mc
www.understandingpower.com
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Although it is not a new notion, it has always been taboo to voice
such blatant opinions in the context of American Democracy which requires a 'modicum of honesty' on the part of the ruling class.What Leo Strauss has accomplished through his disciples is to strip away the myth that our rulers are virtuous men forever seeking legitimacy in the eyes of the people.To put it more charitably, he has made universal lying respectable and open.
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. Because they understand that life is a constant struggle?
That's a real knee-slapper. Well, I suppose it's a struggle always having to think up new ways to steal other people's money.

The "Noble Lie" isn't exactly an original idea. The early Mormons called it lying for the Lord, and I'm sure they stole it from someone else.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Straussian lies are not so noble
by Strauss' own admission:
"Those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right, the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."

The idea of the noble lie comes from Plato, and Strauss's interpretation of Plato is controversial to say the least.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. I've bookmarked this thread
Lots of great info on these slimey bastards .
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
44. Detailed, well-sourced PNAC who's who links in my sig
I am a "peacenik" but believe that one should know one's enemy.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thanks for Those Lists. Wow, Didn't Realize There Were So Many
And proof that being an intellectual is not a qualification: Rich LOWERY, Linda CHAVEZ, Dan QUAYLE...
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. One of the stated goals of the PNAC is to maintain American
Global Hegemony well into the 21st century.Of course, girly boys
like Rich Lowry ( An Coulter's description of him, not mine) get off
on that.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Wasn't it Jeane Kirkpatrick that told Pinochet
that they will not withhold aid because of his human rights abuses?

the only worse person they could have put in that position (U.S. Rep. to UN Human Rights commission) would have been Charlie Manson.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Jeanne Kirkpatrick is a work of art.She was also involved,
( I don't know in what manner) in the prolongation of Nelson Mandela's incarceration by the White Apartheid government.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. She looks lke the twin sister of
Wm F Buckley.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
27. A kick
for primary education. ;-)
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
34. don't forget ALAN KEYES
He's a Straussian too. An atheist Straussian. I can't wait to see the fundies faces. hahaha
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. And Clarence Thomas for crying out loud.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
36. Kick.
:dem::kick:
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
38. A pdf file of the Harpers story
is available if you would like it.
please pm me for the file, with your email address included, or state in your pm for the email source from which i acquired it so you can contact him yourself.
1.5 mb pdf file

dp
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks to the many posters on this thread.I looked into the
reference in one post about Leo Strauss' past and found an odd connection in Shadia Drury's biography of Leo Strauss that I thought was very revealing of the man.He was a German who escaped from Nazi Germany in 1938 at the height of Hitler's rampage against the Jews of Europe.But oddly he was a firm believer in the authoritarian style of
government the Nazis were fond of.Strauss saw the collapse of the Weimar Republic and believed that a Hitler style authoritarian was just what the doctor ordered.In all his writings and lectures he had nothing but contempt for American Democracy.He ridiculed our system of government based on the consent of the governed.He even advocated the violent overthrow of our government so that men better equipped to deal with our masses ( the Elite) could step into their naturally ordained role.

A frightening man, in my opinion. That he has found such a willing and powerful audience in the PNAC does not surprise me one bit.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. What's shocking is that he managed to indoctrinate so many Jews to his
Edited on Thu Aug-12-04 08:50 AM by KoKo01
way of thinking. That just blows my mind, that the very ideas that were responsible for concentration camps and so much death to a whole race of people would live on in some of the very people who suffered under this philosophy.

It's interesting that so many of our Jewish writers like Eric Alterman have come down so hard on these folks. One can see a huge split just as we Christians have our "Armageddon/Revelations" right wingers who have usurped power, so does Judaism.

Means civilization must always be on guard for the kind of people who use a philsophy for evil purposes. No matter what the philosophy is, it can always be abused by those seeking their own glory. Remaining every vigilant is the only way to stop those who have dreams of philosophical and literal dreams of "pure races, pure thoughts" and will commit some forms of genocide to achieve it.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. I think that you are right on the mark.His contempt for American
Democracy intensified as the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.He never believed that black or Chinese or Indians were equal to whites but had to conceal these thoughts in euphemisms of Elites and Masses.
In this odd way he rounded the circle of Hitlerian thoughts.I guess you might say he agreed with Hitler except on the issue of what he did to the jews. If jews were included in the Nazi concept of the master race, I think he would have become a convert.
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
41. Deconstructing Straussian goverance for the 'vulgar masses'...
Edited on Thu Aug-12-04 08:49 AM by GoreN4
Many commentators have suggested the 9/11 attacks were a necessary precondition to create generalized societal fear, and as such the tragedy was exploited by the Executive Branch to pursue the invasion of Iraq. In order to appreciate the governing principles of the neoconservatives, it is helpful to analyze the individual often described as the original advocate of modern neoconservative thinking, Dr. Leo Strauss.

Leo Strauss (1899-1973):
Philosophical Father of the Neoconservatives

“Because mankind is intrinsically wicked, he has to be governed…Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united- and they can only be united against other people."

“those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right - the right of the superior to rule over the inferior…The people are told what they need to know and no more."
- Dr. Leo Strauss

"…for bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue – weapons of mass destruction – because it was the one reason everyone could agree on."
- Paul Wolfowitz, May 29, 2003

"I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing."
- Richard Perle, November 19, 2003

It is widely acknowledged the Bush administration was not particularly honest about the reasons it gave to the public for the invasion of Iraq. Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of defense, acknowledged the evidence used to justify the war was always “murky” and now says that the main rationale for the Iraq war, “disarming” Saddam of a WMD program, was more of a “bureaucratic” reason than a national security reason. His neoconservative colleague, Richard Perle also admitted the war was in violation of International Law, but nonetheless it was the “right thing” to do. Many Americans have difficulty believing the Bush administration purposely engaged in a campaign of diversion and deception to convince the public that an invasion of Iraq was urgent and necessary. While these facts are disconcerting, they are not surprising given the self-proclaimed philosophical underpinning of neoconservative ideology.

In 1938 German political philosopher Leo Strauss arrived in the U.S., an ethnic Jew and refugee from Nazi Germany. He became a professor at the University of Chicago, where he specialized in philosophical analysis of the classic Greek tradition. He explored basic philosophical questions including of the structure of society and whether or not it can be founded on rational principles. Paul Wolfowitz was introduced to “Struassian” ideology while earning his PhD under Dr. Strauss at the University of Chicago.

Shadia Drury, professor of political theory at the University of Regina in Saskatchewan, has written extensive analysis of “Struassian” ideology. Her two in-depth books on this subject are entitled; 'The Political Ideas of Leo Strauss' (1988) and 'Leo Strauss and the American Right' (1997). She deftly argues that the use of deception and manipulation in current US policy flows directly from the doctrines espoused by Leo Strauss. These teachings include the philosophy that deception is the normal process in politics.

Therefore secrecy is a paramount goal of government, especially with issues regarding foreign policies. Strauss also believed that society was comprised of three distinct groups of citizens, in which only the “wise” elite understood that “perpetual deception” is required between the rulers and those to be ruled over. According to Drury, Strauss believed that society was composed of three classes of people:

“There are indeed three types of men: the wise, the gentlemen, and the vulgar. The wise are the lovers of the harsh, unadulterated truth. They are capable of looking into the abyss without fear and trembling. They recognise neither God nor moral imperatives. They are devoted above all else to their own pursuit of the “higher” pleasures...”

The second type, the gentlemen, are lovers of honour and glory. They are the most ingratiating towards the conventions of their society – that is, the illusions of the cave. They are true believers in God, honour, and moral imperatives. They are ready and willing to embark on acts of great courage and self-sacrifice at a moment’s notice.

The third type, the vulgar many, are lovers of wealth and pleasure. They are selfish, slothful, and indolent. They can be inspired to rise above their brutish existence only by fear of impending death or catastrophe.”

It is important to realize that Dr. Strauss was openly contemptuous of secular democracy. In his framework; "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right- the right of the superior to rule over the inferior." Struassian theory thus requires the "The people are told what they need to know and no more." While the elite are capable of absorbing the absence of any moral truth, Strauss thought, the masses could not be exposed to the truth or they would fall into nihilism or anarchy.

Perhaps this governing philosophy of blanket secrecy provides a parallel to the neoconservatives strategy regarding Iraq and an inability to be truthful with the American people about the reasons for the war, which have continual been shifted when no viable WMD stockpiles or WMD programs were found in Iraq.

Moreover, an equally interesting aspect of Struassian teaching is that religion is absolutely essential for imposing moral law on the masses (or vulgar many). At the same time, Strauss stressed that religion is to be reserved for the masses alone, as the ruling elite need not be bound by it. In fact, he argued it would illogical for the rulers to be bound by religion since the truths proclaimed by religion are in his words "a pious fraud." Hence, secular society is the least desirable situation because it leads to individualism, liberalism, and relativism. While these are the traits the Founding Fathers viewed as most desirable, in the Straussian ideology it is these same traits that promote dissent, which could weaken society's ability to 'cope with external threats.' Strauss was ambivalent as what religion was needed to facilitate social control of the masses, only that a religion was required in his analysis.

Dr. Strauss also believed that the inherently aggressive nature of human beings could only be restrained by a powerful nationalistic state. "Because mankind is intrinsically wicked, he has to be governed," he wrote. "Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united- and they can only be united against other people."

Drury makes the observation that a ‘perpetual war’ is a requirement in the Straussian political framework, and an “external threat’ must exist, even if is manufactured. She concludes with this foreboding analysis of how Struassian philosophy permeates the underlying neoconservative political strategy.

“In short, they all thought that man’s humanity depended on his willingness to rush naked into battle and headlong to his death. Only perpetual war can overturn the modern project, with its emphasis on self-preservation and “creature comforts.”

“…This terrifying vision fits perfectly well with the desire for honour and glory that the neo-conservative gentlemen covet. It also fits very well with the religious sensibilities of gentlemen. The combination of religion and nationalism is the elixir that Strauss advocates as the way to turn natural, relaxed, hedonistic men into devout nationalists willing to fight and die for their God and country.

"...I never imagined when I wrote my first book on Strauss that the unscrupulous elite that he elevates would ever come so close to political power, nor that the ominous tyranny of the wise would ever come so close to being realized in the political life of a great nation like the United States. But fear is the greatest ally of tyranny.”

Struassian ideology toward foreign policy is plainly Machiavellian in orientation. During the 1990s the neoconservative thesis was expanded and formally articulated by neoconservative groups such PNAC and American Enterprise Institute (AEI). In fact, Karl Rove, President Bush’s political advisor, boosts that he reads Machiavelli’s ‘The Prince’ every year.

If one believes that political order is stable only if the people are united by an external threat, then if no external threat exists, one has to be manufactured. In many crucial aspects, this philosophy of government closely mirrors the actions of the U.S government with respect to the “war on terror.” After the September 11th tragedy, these polices of a world order dominated by US military power were being implemented under the never ending external threat of “terrorism.”

Preparing the public for the Iraq war was quite simple. As required in Straussian political theory, an “external threat” was created during the autumn of 2002. This campaign was designed to create the requisite societal fear necessary so that the “wise” rulers could pursue a strategy to be kept secret from the masses. As prescribed, the role of religion was often evoked as a divine force guiding our political leaders in a battle of “good versus evil.” The mantra of “united we stand” created the necessary hyper-nationalism to drown out critical analysis of the facts surrounding the war. Under the threat of “mushroom clouds,” our prime nemesis, Bin Laden, was skillfully transformed by the Bush administration into our old yet new public enemy number one, Saddam Hussein.

“God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.”

-President George W. Bush, June 2003, as reported by former Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas


“You can’t distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."

-President George W. Bush, 2002

"Look, our strategy is to create chaos, to create a vacuum...We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of our great nation."

"I'm the commander--see, I don't need to explain--I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

- President George W Bush, 2002

“One of the reasons I left was my sense that they were using the intelligence from the CIA and other agencies only when it fit their agenda. They didn’t like the intelligence they were getting, and so they brought in people to write the stuff. They were so crazed and so far out and so difficult to reason with—to the point of being bizarre. Dogmatic, as if they were on a mission from God. If it doesn’t fit their theory, they don’t want to accept it.”

- Former CIA official interviewed by Seymour Hersh, for The New Yorker magazine, May 2003

“…I’d love to be the historian who writes the story of how this small group of eight or nine people made the case and won.”

- W. Patrick Lang, former chief of Middle East intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)

Many American people are slowly realizing the degree to which they were misled about the Iraq war. Many history books will to be written regarding the events that unfolded before and after the Iraq war, but perhaps a crucial issue to understand is the theoretical underpinning of the neoconservative movement. The following is an analysis of how the Iraq war was pursued by advocates of the Struassian philosophy. The first he ground breaking story on the OSP and the neoconservative operatives with this unit was provided by Seymour Hersh of The New Yorker, along with a former Pentagon employee who worked under Defense Secretary Rumsfeld.

These two individuals exposed how a small clique of neoconservative ideologues along with an Iraqi exile group conspired to provide most of the fraudulent “intelligence data” that was publicized by the Executive Branch of the U.S. government. This disinformation in relation to Iraq was readily apparent before the war, but now it is simply irrefutable. According to investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, proponents of Straussian ideology were placed in key positions within the ad hoc “intelligence units” that prepared information for the President and prepared the public for war.

Evidently during 2001-2002 the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) were not giving Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld intelligence information that would justify a US invasion of Iraq. In fact, it was well known to our intelligence agencies that Iraq’s WMD was dormant, and as early as 1998 it was understood that Saddam had no ties to Al Qaeda.

Undeterred, in the summer of 2002 Donald Rumsfeld set up his own unofficial, and autonomous intelligence unit referred to simply as the “cell,” or the “Iraqi intelligence cell.” It has been reported that Douglas Feith, the third highest ranking civilian in the Department of Defense, and staunch neoconservative, operated this unit in an effort to circumvent the CIA and secretively brief the White House on dubious reports of a “relationship” between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. This “cell” collaborated with another “rogue” intelligence unit called the Office of Special Plans (OSP).

The purpose of these “intelligence units” was to bypass the CIA and DIA, and provide “faith-based intelligence” to Vice President Cheney and President Bush. According to former Pentagon employees who observed the OSP unit; it appears that its sole purpose was to promote the Iraq war. The head of this was unit, Bill Luti, who earend his PhD under the late Dr. Strauss, and not surprisingly, Dr. Luti is an acknowledged disciple of Straussian theory.

The Straussian philosophy of governance requires the people to be united under fear and hatred. In order to achieve such goals a propaganda campaign to instill fear would need to be launched. The goal of course was to create a broad “external” threat – even if one did not exist. Mr. Luti and members of the OSP vigorously pursued this challenge during the autumn of 2002, and succeeded brilliantly. It a twist of self-mockery, members of the OSP referred to themselves the “cabal.”

Straussian Necessity of an External Threat: Mushroom Clouds to Inspire the Vulgar Masses

In essence, the justification for invading of Iraq was a coordinated and transparent pack of fabrications and deceptions - designed to create the requisite societal fear as discussed in Straussian theory, thereby convincing the “vulgar masses” of the need for a preemptive invasion of Iraq. To reiterate, Straussian theory of governance requires an existential threat as the masses could only “be inspired to rise above their brutish existence only by fear of impending death or catastrophe.”

In view of the Straussian philosophy of governance, the operations of the OSP and Douglas Feith’s unnamed intelligence was not an “intelligence failure,” but a remarkable success in uniting the “vulgar masses” with “fear of impending death or catastrophe.”

Despite inherit logical contradictions of an unprovoked WMD attack by the Iraqi government, in August 2002 Vice President Cheney first introduced the notion that Saddam Hussein would acquire nuclear weapons “fairly soon.” Not coincidentally, on the one-year anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Condozeela Rice famously remarked the first “smoking gun” could be a “mushroom cloud.”

Introducing the terrifying image of a mushroom cloud to the America citizens when their emotions were heightened by the first year anniversary of 9/11 was a highly effective method for instilling generalized fear. Indeed, a month later President Bush reiterated that the “final proof” of Saddam’s nuclear program could be a “mushroom cloud.”

The coup de grace to reinforce to the American people that an imminent “external threat” existed from a nuclear armed Saddam was provided General Tommy Franks. In November 2002 he warned that inaction might produce the “first mushroom cloud on one of the major population centers on this planet.” The extraordinary, fear-inspiring “mushroom cloud” propaganda campaign vividly illustrates the power welded by a few government officials who can easily bring the people “to the bidding of the leaders.” The following quotes are provided in chronological order.

"Many of us are convinced that Saddam will acquire nuclear weapons fairly soon. Just how soon we cannot gauge."
-Vice President Cheney, August 26, 2002

“The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons, but we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."
-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice,
September 8, 2002

“Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof...the smoking gun.... that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
- President George W. Bush, October 7, 2002

An Iraqi nuclear weapon might bring "the sight of the first mushroom cloud on one of the major population centers on this planet."
- General Tommy Franks, November 12, 2002

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa"
- President George W. Bush, State of the Union address, January 28, 2003

"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
-Vice President Cheney, March 16, 2003

"Yeah, I did misspeak .... We never had any evidence that he had acquired a nuclear weapon.."
-Vice President Cheney, September 14, 2004

The last quote is quite an understatement give that Vice President Cheney was the instrumental government official to first suggest that Saddam was acquiring nuclear weapons. The seven month period between August of 2002 to just three days before the war was a remarkably era in which senior members of the Executive Brach and one of the top U.S. military commanders appeared to have engaged in a coordinated attempt to promulgate massive societal fear.

The repeatedly references to “reconstituted nuclear weapons” and visions of “mushroom clouds” was a very effective fear tactic in inspire the masses and fill the imagination of Americans with “fear of impending death or catastrophe.” However, it one can overcome the thought-paralyzing effects of this type of propaganda, and critically examine the facts, it was highly doubtful that Saddam could reconstitute a nuclear weapons program, nor was he likely to give any such weapons to a radical terrorists group. After all, Saddam was a survivor, not a martyr.

The following information was never discussed by the U.S. government or our subservient media conglomerates as it would have exposed the fallacy of the prime rationale for the Iraq war. First, we all hope the U.S. government will never have to conduct a forensic analysis of radioactive isotopes that would remain in the aftermath of a rogue nuclear explosion. However, the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) and associated U.S. military laboratories have the capability to analyze the unique radiation signatures to determine the origin of major sources of plutonium or uranium that could be used in a nuclear weapon.

For example, if a nuclear warhead were stolen and detonated, the U.S. could determine whether the fissile material came from Britain, China, France, India, Israel, Pakistan, Russia or the United States. Furthermore, if Al Qaeda were to seek a nuclear weapon, they would most likely go to where they are most plentiful and least secure – the former states of the Soviet Union. Numerous reports to Congress by the U.S. intelligence agencies have repeated stated the real risk for a rogue group acquiring an unsecured nuclear weapon is in Russia. A destabilized Pakistan is the second most likely risk.

This is well understood; as a publicly available report to Congress during 2002 clearly illustrates the U.S. government deems a potential detonation of a rogue nuclear device within the U.S. would “likely” come from Russia. Furthermore, it appears that if such an event were to occur, it would first be assumed that the bomb material was stolen from Russia, and secondly, this it is unlikely Russia would have conducted such an attack.

Although a highly disconcerting subject, it is slightly reassuring to know that professionals within the U.S. government are operating under the assumption that a rogue nuclear explosion would likely be a terrorist attack, and not a state-sponsored attack from Russia, even if forensic analysis showed the bomb material originated from Russia. A report to Congress in 2002 regarding a ‘Terrorist Nuclear Attack’ illustrates our forensic capability itself “could help to deter other nations from giving nuclear material to a terrorist group.”

“The United States can often identify the origin of nuclear material used in a bomb. This forensic capability strengthens the value of controlling Russian nuclear weapons and materials: finding that material for a bomb detonated in the United States came from Russia, a likely source, would in all probability lead to the conclusion that the material was stolen rather than that Russia conducted the attack. At the same time, augmenting already-excellent forensic capability through technology and intelligence could help deter other nations from giving nuclear materials to a terrorist group."

Source: CRS Report for Congress, Received through the CRS Web: Order Code RS21293
‘Terrorist Nuclear Attacks on Seaports: Threat and Response,’ August 23, 2002
Jonathan Medalia, Specialist in National Defense, Foreign Affairs, Defense, and Trade Division


Although a brutal and despicable individual, Saddam Hussein was and is similar to other dictators who enjoy their power and position. He was not interested in provoking the U.S. to attack Iraq, and as a secular dictator, nor was he interested in associating with fundamentalist terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. Saddam ruled over the most secular state in the Middle East, and loathed religious zealots like Osama bin Laden, who in turn despised Saddam an a "bad Muslim" alogn with his "socialist"/secular/Ba'athist government.

Saddam was shrewd enough to realize that launching a WMD attack back in 1991 against the U.N. coalition forces would have ended his regime. Likewise, he was likely smart enough to realize that providing any Iraqi-based WMD material to fanatics like Al Qeada would likely be used, and then quickly traced back his regime, thereby quite possibly resulting in his death from “overwhelming” U.S. military force.

To wit, when Saddam was captured by U.S. forces in December 2003, he did not resist. He was armed with a pistol, but had no interest in dying like his sons who were both killed in a gun battle with U.S. troops. At age 65, Saddam apparently wanted to live a little longer. Ironically, even in hiding Saddam warned other Iraqis not to associate with 'foreign fighters,' a reference to Al Qaeda.

With their mission accomplished, Donald Rumsfeld disbanded the OSP in September 2003. Despite the so-called Congressional investigation into “intelligence failures” regarding Iraq, there is “strong resistance” by the Republicans to investigate the OSP and related activities. It is highly doubtful Congress will expose the truth in the near future. Regardless of whether or not these individuals are held accountable, it is now obvious the main justifications for the war were based on a mixture of deceptive premises, fraudulent information, and promoted via a philisophical form of goverance as advocated by Leo Strauss and his disciples, the Neoconservatives.

(for the rest of the story, you'll have to wait for my upcoming book...)
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Thank you.Excellent insights and historic data.
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