Anyone else's family getting ripped apart by this election?

[noahmijo]

Since I turned Democrat earlier this year and have burned every last piece of anything would signify me as a Republican because I am disgusted and sickened by how un-American this administration and Republicans have become, my father is ready to disown me and my uncle who is not as radical as my father but a staunch conservative nonetheless is more than likely going to treat me a little differently than he used to.

I get the whole "you're just a stupid kid a dumbass college boy who thinks he knows everything, holier than thou" speech

Just now for about the 50th time I've calmly laid out my case for why I've gone to support Kerry and the Democrats and I just heard the usual Conservative rant about how liberals hate America, ect ect because his whole experience with liberals is based on defense attourneys (no he is not a prosecutor he was a cop and a Customs Special Agent for 25 years)

And I know how to talk to people like him you show people like my father basically how it's actually the Democrats who want to give the cops more benefits ect, it's the Democrats who want to put away criminals (every Democrat I talk to talks about how the Saudis and Muslim Extremists like Al-Queda are the enemy) while the Republicans want to focus on Saddam for God knows what (oil maybe?)

But nope nothin will do it. Liberals hate America, I don't give a fuck what Kerry has done he's a super liberal ect ect and that's that.

I ask what makes him a super liberal and he has no answer just jabs me in the chest and says I don't have all the facts but he's a fucking super liberal and that's all I need to know!!

I'm 22 and I just graduated but I got one more semester left cause I'm going for a second degree and hopefully then I will move out, but that's another thing that makes it hard I gotta live in his house ya know?

So I dunno, I mean I calmly give facts I even show him where I get stuff, he demanded to see kerry's purple heart records because he says it's all fucking lies ect, I show him the pdf files on kerry's site and then it's like "well they're still liberals all of them fucking liberals he hangs out with ted kennedy cause he's a fucking crook liberal that's what, motherfuckers just like this liberal bitch I argued with today who said Carter was a nuclear physicist dumb fucking bitch doesn't know shit (I looked it up and turns out he was I gotta show him later before he makes a fool of himself even more)

Well many of you have heard me rant about my father's ways on here before, he makes Garafalo's dad seem liberal.

For the record interestingly enough he's not a social liberal in the sense that he's religious, in fact he HATES the fact that I continue to be a Catholic, he could care less about abortion (in fact he thinks it should be mandatory for many) and all the moral issues of the repubs.

Basically it's liberals hate America, Jimmy Carter let in Cubans so Democrats are bad, they hate America and they love terrorists, and they support affirmative action which means you won't get a job if Kerry gets in (I'm half Mexican complete with dark hair and brown eyes but okay)

Well after showing him some facts about how the lunatic fringe (you know the anarchists that burn flags and smash Starbuck's windows) he identifies the entire left wing with is just the minority much like how KKK members aren't a representation of ALL Republicans, and discussing how Bush really did steal the 2000 election, and by pointing out how this administration is the most anti-military administration this nation has ever seen (in terms of how our troops are getting fucked over) he just left looking like he was going to blow up because he had nothing to say.

I'm debating with myself as to whether or not I should leave the "re-defeat bush" sticker on my window which is what set him off in the first place for my uncle's visit but you know what screw it I think I'll keep it.

What makes this so hard is that I gotta live under his roof ya know? if only I had my own place I swear I'd go for the jugular cause I wouldn't have to see him the next day knowing that his red meter would be burst and he'd be ready to get physical most likely, but you know how it is...you don't bite the hand that feeds ya ect..


Anyways just had to get this off my chest thanks DU.

[coalition_unwilling]

1. A possible suggestion

Your father doesn't sound very open. You might offer to treat him to a showing of "Fahrenheit 9/11". If that won't work, try offering to treat him to a showing (perhaps on DVD) of De Palma's 'Casualties of War' (for my money, one of the best anti-war movies of the last 20 years). Watching a movie in silence (hopefully) would allow him to work out his anger issues internally and maybe allow the two of you afterwards to have a more sane discussion.

Not tearing my family apart. Our big disagreement is whether Bush is a fascist\neo-fascist (my position) or whether he simply worships as the foot of Mammon (my Dad's position). Which of course leads to arguments about how to define 'fascism' and whether those definitions apply to BushCo.

But I truly appreciate your predicatment, as it mirrors my situation at work where I don't even speak to several co-workers any longer, having decided that if my anti-social behavior caused me to get fired, so be it.

Hope to hear from you soon.

[newyawker99]

20. Hi coalition_unwilling!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[madaboutharry]

2. How would your Dad feel if

Bush was re-elected, a draft was put into place, and you were sent to Iraq? How would he feel if you died there? You ought to ask him about this.

[noahmijo]

10. I did he said it's bullshit that it won't happen end of story

and that's that.

[madaboutharry]

18. I am so sorry for you.

I know of several people who voted for Bush in 2000 who will not vote for him this time for this very reason. They are worried for their sons and daughters of draft age.

[rucky]

3. The election isn't tearing your family apart

Your father's abuse is.

Time to get to the heart of the problem... or bide your time and get the hell out ASAP.

[Sequoia]

4. Just hang in there

for now since you're finishing college. You father might be on the warpath because he feels betrayed (by his country) and doesn't want to admit it, hence all the angry cussing and dissing you. I've found that the people who tend to yell the loudest on these issues are afraid and really don't know or want to the facts, even if it's staring them in the face. Don't let it get to you, that just adds more fuel. Try to avoid the subject if he gets too heated up, and maybe walk away and cool down. Maybe you should show him that JibJab "This Land" cartoon. He'd probably hate that too, but it's funny at least. Good luck!

[Shoeempress]

5. I totally understand. My family has not spoken to me since the

1992 election, when they happened to be visiting on that day. We were always really close but disagreed on politics. I finally realized that if politics is more important to them than I am, they are sick, twisted people, and probably didn't really love me as an individual but as an extension of themselves.

As it is his house, I have to say, take down the bumper sticker. I'm not saying cave in, but it is a sign of respect. If your kid had a Bush Sticker up while you paid the mortgage, wouldn't it drive you crazy?

Try and avoid all political conversations. It's you only hope, because nothing you say or do will EVER convince him otherwise. Also, don't forget in his eyes you will always be about 12. Trust me, it's true. My Husband's parents are in their 80's and won't listen to my husband about health, and he's a doctor. But, hey what does he know, he's 12?

Relax, take a deep breath, and realize, you will not always live in his house.

[clydefrand]

6. Young man, I feel for you.

I'm old enough to be your grandmother and I know what it's like to try to convince closed minded people that they are wrong. My advice: Leave him alone since you are depending upon him for the necessities of life. I wouldn't take the sticker down unless he demands it and it's a condition of your staying there. When your uncle comes, make yourself scare and don't argue with him either. I've found out close-minded people are most likely uneducated as well. If you must engage in a conversation, just ask them to explain their views and how they reached them without your imputting your views. See what they say.

Just be proud you're getting educated so you don't have to be miserable the rest of your life believing absurd lies like your dad and uncle. The type they are will never admit they are wrong no matter what proof you show them--just like our esteemed?? president who will never admit that he has made a mistake. Just get your degree and go out into the world and make it better for everyone! Enjoy the hell out of living and loving and traveling. Traveling all over the world is the best education ever! That's the way you learn tolerance and respect for your fellowman! Travel is a better educator than my college years and 2 degrees. Keep an independent, free thinking mind and you will enjoy life to its fullest. Go get 'em. :bounce:

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

13. Good advise.

Well said.

[Postman]

7. Hang tough kid. You're on the right side of history and morality.

The problem is your relatives don't know their own working-class history because A)they've never been taught it and B)its never discussed in the corporate controlled media.

So all they're exposed to is corporate clap-trap like Sean Hannity and its the liberals this and the liberals that 24/7 with no basis in fact about what they are ranting about. It sounds like they are too far gone to save, in my opinion.

When some people have been led by the nose all their lives and told how to think, their critical thinking skills disappear and no amount of logic, fact or proof of the contrary will be enough to knock sense into them. It's a great example of how the "good German people" allowed such a thing as fascism and the "final solution" to come to fruition.

Notice I said "some people" in the paragraph above. Because I used to be a rightwinger myself. Then I picked up a couple of books one day and educated myself. Two of the most eye opening books I've ever read in my life.

1. A Peoples History of the United States
2. Declarations of Independence

Both by Howard Zinn. After reading those two books alone, it suddenly all made sense. Domestic Policy, Foreign Policy, Class-struggle, Labor History.

Maybe if it worked for me, it could work for your relatives in seeing the truth that is right before their eyes. Maybe they can be awkened from there patriotic slumber that soo benefits those sitting in the White House, and to be honest, the Democratic Party at times as well.

[Gregorian]

11. That is one hell of a post.

Reading that brought out emotions. You really summed it up. And I get such a feeling of genuine pride when I hear about people like you, who made a decision to change for the good.

For noahmijo- You know, I'm very angry. It's hard to watch what's going on in America, and not be disturbed. But this election actually brought my family closer. I always thought my parents were somewhat conservative. It was a surprise to find that one day while complaining about Bush, my mom and dad, who are 80, piped up that they are extremely upset about this administration. I guess after living through the drug war, and never hearing much, I just assumed they were conservatives. But Bush has given us something to ralley around. Admittedly, it's negative. But in a funny way, he really has been a uniter. So I can imagine how much more difficult it would be to have that friction, if they weren't liberal thinkers. I can say this, my parents are sensitive, caring people. I think these things go together with being a liberal. Caring and being kind are nothing to be ashamed of. I can't really help. But I can certainly empathize. And I wish you some kind of relief. If it's any help, I didn't get along with my parents at all when I was 22.

[bpilgrim]

8. yikes

you are definitely between a ROCK and a HARD PLACE.

i wouldn't push it any, like you said you gotta live under his roof and it is already stressful enough it must be very TOUGH.

folks don't respond well to forceful positions anyway but especially if they are on the other side of the fence as I'm sure you know... not that you are being forceful since i wasn't there but if your gett'n a finger jabbed in your chest the other side may perceive it that way.

now don't get me wrong i'm not saying never discuss it but maybe let them bring it up first and then try just responding with a telling joke that reveals something about bush like OSAMA BIN FORGOTTON or TRIFECTA or their CLOSING FIRE-STATIONS in NYC while spending that money in BAGHDAD opening them whatever but one liners like they like to use against us it works for me in work because none of'em will ever spend the time it would take to have a real discussion so i just drop little bombshells from the bush policy whenever they bring him up :evilgrin:

now i don't know if i've swayed anybody but it at leasts keeps the ALL IMPORTANT harmony of the group or just tolerable on the bad days ;->

i would just play it cool and remember how hard it must be for him to even accept these FACTS that you have on your side ;->

even if he sticks to the home team he's still your dad and you never know when you'll break through =) and if ya don't you certainly wont be the first.

thanks for sharing i'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice here.

remember you catch more flies with sugar :hi:

peace

[GreyPilgrim]

9. D'oh

I've learned the hard way to not talk politics with family members holding opposing political viewpoints. So, uh.. I never talk politics with my family. :-) This was learned after many unwanted screaming matches with my father, when after presented with evidence for my points refuses to even listen consider their weight. Sometimes it's not worth it. In my case, it's handy that I moved almost 2,000 miles away.

I grew up in Tucson and attended the UA, btw.

Good luck.

[noahmijo]

12. Bear Down

me too :)

My degrees will be in MIS and Operations Management

Well is it about 2,000 miles from Tucson to Silverdale, Washington? that's where I plan to move.

[seabeyond]

14. dumbass college boy

kinda an oxymoron dontcha think. i find this humorous that so many on the right are fighting so hard to keep the educated and intelligent people out of politics, oh ya, that makes since. my brother talking liberal (for him i found out saying liberall is like me saying neocon or kkk) and i say you know i am liberal. well you called yourself that i didnt he says.

what is a liberal i ask

it is someone who has been thru college................what i say, these are your extremist

when i let him know liberal is to democrat like conservative is to republican and the only reason it is a dirty word is cause the right made it so. doesnt mean it is.

he really didnt know that, he really thought liberal was the extremist in the party. wow to that. i was surprised

[Xipe Totec]

15. Jeez-us, Lemme tell ya

I have a brother who's retired Marine, 20 years in the service. We yanked each other's chains last election. It was nasty, but not personal. Then the Invasion of Iraq occurred, and the thin veneer of civility broke down totally.

We stopped talking to each other for over a year. Only recently we began to exchange e-mail again but even now the tacit understanding is that WE DO NOT TOUCH THE SUBJECT OF POLITICS.

Makes it hard to find things to talk about, but it's better than killing each other.

As for your relationship with your dad, well, he IS your dad. Bushes and Kerrys will come and go, but you only have one father. Find some other way to connect with him while you are both still on this earth.

Relax, enjoy the political show. It's going to go on no matter what anybody does or doesn't do.

[DancingBear]

16. Well, I'm old enough to be your grandfather

and I know what you're going through. I grew up a child of the 60's, hated for what I looked liked and who I was. My father was your father, a man who hated things he couldn't understand and people whose pigmentation didn't match his. He wrapped his despair in alcohol, and the screaming fits were legendary. He, too, could not formulate his opinions, due to a lack of education, so his responses were your fathers.

I tried for years to make him understand, without success, until one day the doctors told him his lifestyle was going to kill him. From that day, he listened. Not very much, mind you, but some. I listened, too. I realized the only way to get through to him was to speak to him with respect, father to son respect if nothing else. We talked often, and while I never changed his mind if he were alive today I think we'd be talking quite a lot.

Just so you'll know, when he died I went through his old tool cabinet (I'm a woodworker) and there, hidden away in a corner, were mementos from every thing that happened to his oldest son. There were notes of praise, badly misspelled, special occasions remembered, and a copy of my college graduation program, along with a torn old picture, taken with an old camera, of father and son. An old guy with a crew cut, a young guy with a ponytail and a black gown, shoulder to shoulder. I cried like a baby.

Sometimes it takes the young to lead the way, and the old to remember the way. Keep talking, stand proud, and be who you are. If you do, you'll get your own torn picture, too.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

17. I guess I'm lucky.

I don't disagree with my family (my mom, my dad, my brother, my husband) on politics at all. I feel like I have a support group, which is how a family should be. My husband disagrees with most of his family on politics, but he also disagrees with them on almost everything else too. His family is weird, to say the least.

[Lefty48197]

19. Think of all the families torn apart by the LAST election

You're helping to heal the disfunction caused by all the unemployment and other economic uncertainty.