I am a Democrat too...

[ScreamingMeemie]

Something has saddened me lately. That there are those who would label me as "far left" or not "in the boat" because my opinions may be different than theirs on some issues. That somehow, by daring to question those "in charge" of the party, I am a "threat" to the party. Me, a housewife, with two kids, a job, and all the accoutrement's that make me an average Mrs Joe. For some reason, because I am asking for accountability from my congresspeople and my government, because I do not want my son's blood spilled for something he may not believe in...for something my party didn't believe in, I am now against my own party. The fact that I fully support a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, assault weapons bans, education reform...all that matters not. I am a traitor to my own party in the eyes of some.

Just like Democrats are traitors and "anti-American" in the eyes of those who choose to vote Republican.

We must remember that we are all in this together, and that all opinions are welcome here.


Thanks,
Laura

[lancdem]

1. Touche

[Union Thug]

2. Far left - Check in!

I'm far left too because of my views on unions and labor. I'm proudly 'far left'!

Don't despair, retake the party!

[maxpower]

4. Way far left

Checking in.

[Gildor Inglorion]

16. PROUDLY Far Left!

Reporting for duty!

[Nadienne]

29. Checking in

Along with the rest of the tall-standing, unashamed liberals.

[tkulesa]

34. Far Left!

I'm here! :hi:

[Vladimir]

61. Communist checking in n/t

[goobergunch]

69. Checking in! (n/t)

[WillyT]

70. Left Here With Ya !!!

It's really not hard being far left these days. After the Reagan\Bush I era, the politics in this country got so pulled to the right, that what used to be the center is now to the right, and what is now the new right, is out in whacked-ville!!!

And... I really don't see how ANYBODY could be a centrist these days, with THIS misAdministration???

:wtf:

Love ya MrsGrumpy! And don't be sad, I do believe the pendulum has begun its swing back our way!!!

:grouphug::loveya::grouphug:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

73. Very far left rightchere!

Checking in.

[Darranar]

85. Out there too... n/t

[JanMichael]

93. If redefining the concept of Work and Hierarchy is "Far Left" then here I

am.

I've been examining the concept of Participatory Economics or ParEcon. So far it's looking like something that might just have a shot in the future.

Read about it here.

So basically...Screw Capitalism and the horse it stole to ride in on. Same with Coordinatorism (State Communism/Capitalism. Ie. Stalinism) too.

"In capitalism, capitalists own the means of production, use markets for allocation, define the purpose and character of work, and hire and fire workers (and managers). In coordinatorism, capitalists are gone. Managers, planners, engineers, and other intellectuals define work, using either central planning or markets for allocation. Workers continue to carry out tasks defined by others."

[Selwynn]

118. Far Left, REPORTING FOR DUTY! :)

[LittleApple81]

3. I don't know what this is about, but in my opinion discussion should

always be possible. I don't think that there is anything monolithic about the Democratic party or DU. I am voting for Kerry NOT because he is Kerry but because at this point he is the ONLY HOPE against a future that is much worse.
Kerry is a human being, with warts and all. I don't like his position on the IWR and how he has reacted to the controversy on this. but Bush is a robot with no humanity left who will continue taking us down the cliff of inhumanity and horror. (he is even pro-torture and likes to torment fish and endanger his dog... at 50 plus years!)

[Kanary]

48. In my view, this is NOT about Kerry...... this is about being

told to be in the back of the bus because our views aren't acceptable to the "New" democrats.

Kanary

[Kanary]

5. I hear ya.....

:hug:

Kanary, another one tossed on the trash heap of the Party...... :cry:

[KurtNYC]

6. I welcome your opinion

As do, I would think, a majority of Democrats.

[Individualist]

7. Thank you for saying that, MsGrumpy

I'm also a Democrat and a patriot. As Thomas Jefferson said, "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism".

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[deutsey]

9. Lefty here who has pretty much left the Democrats

I'm still voting Kerry (there's no question about that), but I no longer consider myself a member of the Democratic Party.

I am a democrat (small "d"), though, and always will be.

[Kanary]

11. I was going to edit my post to say that......

Thanks for saying it for me.

Most of us don't go where we're not wanted.

I'm understanding more and more why a lot of people don't vote.

Kanary

[jonnyblitz]

21. it doesnt take much to be left of the Democrats these days. n/t

[TahitiNut]

10. Ad hominems are every bit as fallacious as ...

... appeals to authority. It's every bit as unpersuasive to me to apply one label as another. Bush isn't wrong because he's 'bad' - he's 'bad' because he's wrong, on virtually every issue of governance.

[Cleita]

30. True middle of the left makes a flaming liberal hippie out of you.

Even Howard Dean said this when he was accused of being liberal, when he stated that he was a centrist but the party had moved so far to the right that it made him look liberal.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. I'm tired of "hippie" being used as a derogatory term.

Dammit.

[hippywife]

102. Me, too!! LOL

Proud lefty checking in!! Wouldn't consider being anything else. :hippie: :hi:

[Selwynn]

120. well said. Bad because he's wrong.

[tom_paine]

12. My dear, that primarily is true because of the DLC's influence

I got really upset/scraed at seeing them bash liberals using almost identical language as the Bushevik Sub-Media!

What does it mean? Are they lazy and unprepared and just ripping off put-downs from the Busheviks?

Or do they work for them?

In Imperial Amerika, a nation awash now in lies, frauds, and corruption, who can tell?

But I do say THIS: I am a Moderate Democrat with a distrust of both Left and Right who is in the unenviable position of begging the Democrats to get back on my left and stand tall for SOMETHING.

(even if it means I disagree with that position personally, that's how BAD things have gotten)

Funny, my ideologies probably place me firmly in the DLC camp, yet after witnessing the Party's craven cowardice under their "leadership" (RETREAT...AGAIN!) and how the hell did they sink to such depths of weakness and spinelessness post-Clinton, I could no more support them than I could Bush himself.

[Kanary]

14. "or do they work for them?"

There ya go.....

Kanary

[tom_paine]

19. To be fair, that's quite an allegation...and unproven

People do stupid things on their own.

Now, you might say that the DLC has a lot of Luci the Bat type moles who undermine and whisper poison in the ears of the Real Kerry Campaign.

That's much more believable.

Either way, it is impossible to find out what the truth is in an Orwellian Totalitarian Nation like Imperial Amerika.

[Kanary]

23. And, it's my opinion.

There are many opinions here at DU, and I get to have mine, too.

Much is spoken here as certainty which is unproveable.

:shrug:

Kanary

[tom_paine]

36. Understood.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. You have friends here, and throughout the party.

Not all of us are willing to accept the bosses' holy pronouncements, turn a blind eye, sing a happy tune, and march silently to the ballot box to cast our votes as directed.

I'm firmly clamping my nose and voting for Kerry but I'm not about to be silent about his cowardice and the policies that are just "not quite as bad" as the TexasTwirp's.

[fishnfla]

15. Its a 2-way street Laura

I heard a great line in here the other day, someone was riding herd on someone else with a moderate/conservative POV, the poster replied as you just did(paraphrase) 'Hey isnt it enough to be a Democrat? Last time I checked this was the Democratic Underground, not the (insert any other label you feel is more important) Underground'

It certainly is a valid point, going both ways.

[Killarney]

17. good point

It goes both ways here. People who speak out against Kerry get bashed and people who aren't far left enough get bashed and are called DLC evildoers, etc. Sometimes people on DU forget that DLC (moderates) aren't Satan's spawn. Republicans are Satan's spawn. ;)

As long as someone's voting for Kerry, I couldn't care less. Even if they hate him and are holding their nose while they're doing it, they're still doing the right thing. If someone on DU is not voting for Kerry, I strongly disagree with them, but such is life.

[Union Thug]

22. I agree, but...

I've been told directly by some (not on DU, thankfully), that the Democratic party doesn't need people like me pushing 'outdated new deal liberalism'.

Now, I'm voting Kerry and remain a registered Dem, but if this is going to be the attitude, I'll happily leave the party to the Republican-lites.

[Kanary]

25. Actually, that has been said fairly frequently on DU

Haven't noticed it so much lately, but a lot of people left over it.

Don't need to be where we aren't wanted.

Maybe this is the gestation period for a new party.....

Kanary

[Union Thug]

31. I've considered ...

Either Greens or one of the Socialist parties.

I was raised a 'traditional democrat' by my father. He was a union man who surrounded himself with labor 'radicals' like the Mahoney Gang here in Seattle. As a working class person from working class roots, I know the only hope for the working peopleof this world is organization and confrontation. All the economic theory offered by the repukes and the repuke-lites is just bourgeous masturbation that maintains the status quo and keeps working people out in the cold.

If I'm too far left for the new Democrats, so be it. I will leave. But again, I'm voting for Kerry because I full well understand the danger of allowing Bush and his fascist corporatists in power.

[Kanary]

50. I hope that all of us who leave write the necessary letters

Just like a boycott, just refusing to buy the goods doesn't do the job. It takes letters to completely explain, and make the point, why one is leaving the party. From the reaction those of us lefties have received from the "new dems" here on DU, those letters will likely be met by a smirk (irony intended), but if there are enough of them, with the corresponding drop in participation AND donations, *maybe* some of it will sink in.

The unions, minorities and poor folk have been ignored by the DEMs. They are no longer deserving of support from those groups.

Kanary

[Jo March]

18. Laura, some of it may be fear

Some may fear that if we don't all present a united front, the repubs will win out or use our diverse views to divide and conquer us.

The left is made up of some strange bedfellows. That is a wonderful thing until election time to some people, anyway.

I personally have some views that are outside of the party platform but I have never been accused of not being in the party or of trying to harm the party. I've never been called a traitor or anything. Of course, I try to surround myself with people who are like me - very open-minded.

My advice to you is to limit contact with these types of people. They are idiots just as much as the repubs who act the same way.

99.99% of the people on this board appreciate differences and will read what you have to write.

So, screw those guys. Stick to your beliefs and stick to your guns, baby. In the end, it's only you whom you have to please.

Edited for grammar. :)

[Kanary]

53. Actually, I think it's *mostly*, if not *ALL*, fear.

Which means, we're playing right into "their" hands.

I choose not to.

Kanary

[jonnyblitz]

20. yeah....

creepy coming from your own side (supposedly) isnt it?

[sangh0]

24. I am a Democrat too

and what's saddens me are those Democrats who think the party should conform with their own beliefs even when the majority of Dems do not agree with them. I am also saddened by those Democrats who falsely claim that when the Democratic Party acts as the majority wants them to, it's the result of decisions by "the party leaders" who are ignoring "the base", with "the base" being defined as "Democrats who agree with them".

There are those who would label me as "a centrist" or a "DLCer" or a "PNACer" simply because my opinions may be different than theirs on some issues. That somehow, by daring to question those who claim to represent "the base", I am a threat to democracy and in favor of censorship on DU. For some reason, because I am asking for reasonable discourse from my fellow DUers, I am called "Bush*-lite", and "pro-war". I am a traitor to my country in the eyes of some.

Bottom line: Get over yourself. Everybody gets criticized on DU. Stop pretending something special is happening to you. And if you think you shouldn't be demonized for having different opinions, you should stop demonizing others for having opinions different from your own.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. I believe, sangh0, it is my right to post my opinion on a website.

I need not get over anything. I refuse to get over anything. We are falling for insider politics. I refuse to fall. You are welcome to do as you wish.

I have demonized no one...unless they choose to feel this way. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. :hi:

Laura

[sangh0]

32. And who said otherwise

You ought to stop confusing my opinion with an effort to infringe on your rights. I haven't done anything to stop you from expressing your opinion, and your effort to portray this as censorship is nothing more than an appeal to emotion.

I have demonized no one

Your habit of describing those who disagree with you as dishonest (ie You claim you are not "falling" for "insider politics"), and undemocratic (ie your references to decisions by unnamed "party leaders") are demonization. So is your attempts to ascribe motive (ie "it is my right to post my opinion..." even though no one refuted your right to post) to people who disagree with you.

You're not the only one who gets criticized for disagreeing with someone. Your claims of harassment are the result of being too sensitive to what everyone on DU experiences.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. My opinion sangh0. Sorry. Really you read too much into things.

You've decided for yourself what to make of my posts. And you're allowed to. Just like I'm allowed to. Again..I repeat I have demonized no one unless they choose to feel demonized. And then, maybe they should think about that. :hi:

[sangh0]

35. I have opinions too

and if you feel demonized (as a "traitor") you might want to think about your own words. And remember, I never complained about being demonized. I'm used to being called names. It's nothing new in politics.

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. Never said I felt demonized. You did. I call it like I see it. I'm calling

foul. If you choose to feel part of those that I'm calling foul against, I cannot help that. Now, I think we're beating a dead horse here, so I'll bid you good day. :)

I'm pretty comfortable with my opinion.

[sangh0]

40. Please don't misquote for me

I never said I felt demonized. I said "*IF* you think you shouldn't be demonized for having different opinions..."

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. Right...sure...okay.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

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[ScreamingMeemie]

145. I have kids.

I've been tested and provoked many a time. ;)

:hi:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Kitka]

38. I think you just proved her point quite well. <nt>

[sangh0]

41. I'm not sure what you mean

If you mean that I showed how it's not just "the far left" experiencing this, but ALLL sorts of Democrats, then thanks for noticing.

[Name removed]

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[mstrsplinter326]

46. you always use that 'majority' bull

Case-in-point:
nearly 80% of the country admits to smoking pot more than 55% admit to doing it more than once. Legalization is not on the democratic or republican agenda.


It is extremely naive to believe that the DLC has your back.

If is true that democrats are not representing their base, you would never see it because you would just continue to make claims about how you and yours represent the base of the party and the 'lefter' half of the party doesn't.

You're the mirror image of the demons you see in everyone else, you just like your own ideology better than ours.

Stop pretending something special has happened to you.

[sangh0]

47. It's not bull

and marihuana is not the issue.

[mstrsplinter326]

49. No it isn't

Lets move to the war:

95% of the attending delegates were anti-war.

More?

[sangh0]

54. So what?

Since when do the delegates opinions count more than the opinions of Dem voters?

My turn: A majority of the Dem voters who identified themselves as "anti-war" in Iowa, voted for Kerry.

[mstrsplinter326]

57. after a media smear of howard dean

for making a gutteral yell, that by all attending accounts, was 100% appropriate to the mood of the rally.

after the unfair bashing and creative editing he got I think anyone would have gone for kerry or edwards.

[ieoeja]

58. The "gutteral yell" was AFTER Iowa. n/t

[mstrsplinter326]

60. point missed

Kerry won the national support based on two things: a surprise win in Iowa and Dean's media smear. I apoligize I was moving to the national scene without specifing.

[sangh0]

66. SO Kerry had a surprising win because "Kerry had a surprising win"

Your "explanation" explained nothing.

Why did Iowa's anti-war Dems vote for Kerry?

And why did anti-war Dems, who didn't listen to the media when the media said we should go to war, listen to the media when it (supposedly) said they should vote for Kerry? If the media went after Dean, shouldn't the anti-war Dems have voted for a different anti-war Dem? So why did they vote for Kerry?

[mstrsplinter326]

67. Why do people watch reality TV, knowing it's rigged?

I don't know why people do the things they do, and neither do you.

You cannot possible begin to speak for Iowa's anti-war Dems for or against kerry.

[sangh0]

68. That's just inane

We're not talking about TV. This is a political board. Surprisingly, people do different things (like politics and entertainment) for different reasons.

I don't know why people do the things they do, and neither do you.

Speak for yourself. I know why they voted as they did.

You cannot possible begin to speak for Iowa's anti-war Dems for or against kerry.

No, but those voters in Iowa can speak for themselves. And they have.

Plus, your inability to speak for Iowa's voters doesn't seem to extend to the other states because you have spoken for those other voters by saying they voted for Kerry because of what the media reported.

I guess "speaking for voters" is something you think only you should be allowed to do.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

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[madfloridian]

82. One state chose our nominee. Do you want my whole lecture on it?

You know, the front-loaded primaries, the ganging up, all of it.

One small state which is not diverse chose our nominee. Most of us in the larger states never got to vote for our candidate.

[sangha]

90. You didn't mind that when Dean was expected to win Iowa

and you never get around to explaining how all those anti-war Dems, who didn't listen to the media when the media said we should go to war, listened to the media when it said vote for Kerry.

[madfloridian]

98. NY, FL, CA....large states, and many more....NEVER got to vote

Sorry but that is the way it was. You can follow me around, argue, debate, but that is the truth.

I don't know what you think I thought about Dean expected to win Iowa. I am not sure what you mean there. I can post a whole bunch of articles about what people say happened there.....but I see no need.

I never got to vote for Dean. My husband never got to vote for Dean. Our large group for Dean here never did. Tampa and Orlando had larger groups still, and they never got to vote.

You can argue all day, but MOST of the country never had a chance to vote for Howard Dean. That is the sad reality of it all.

[Name removed]

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[madfloridian]

121. Not for my choice. Yes, it is the truth.

You got to vote, but not for the full primary slate. Why do you do this?

[sangh0]

125. You got to vote

so please stop saying things that are not true.

And I had the chance to vote for anyone on the ballot, or write in anyone who was not on the ballot. So did you

[madfloridian]

129. But it did not count. I wanted a choice of the full slate.

My vote did not matter by then, not for the candidate I wanted.

[sangh0]

131. Your vote was counted. Please stop saying things that are not true

Your candidate suspended his campaign after one loss.

[madfloridian]

134. No, that is not true.

Get your facts straight. I am not going to let you get to me anymore. It is really obvious what you are doing, and I will let you play the game alone.

[ScreamingMeemie]

143. Dean did not suspend his campaign after one loss, sangh0. I'm posting

to clarify. He was actively campaigning in mid February. I know this because I worked on one of his events. Misinformation has been the ruin of this country.

Thanks,Laura

[sangh0]

59. You must be confused

Dean didn't give "The Scream" until AFTER he lost in Iowa. It was during a CONCESSION speech, so I doubt it came BEFORE Iowa, which is the first state to vote.

[mstrsplinter326]

62. see the response to ieoja...

[madfloridian]

84. Not a concession speech, a rally before nearly 4,000 people.

After Iowa. Iowa chose our nominee.

[sangha]

91. Look who has a problem with dissent now

The majority of Dems disagreed with you over who should be the nominee, so now you'll accuse them of listening to the media (even though they didn't listen to the media when it said "Go to war")

[madfloridian]

95. Most never got a chance to vote.

Would you like me to post the primary schedule, the date the candidates dropped out and who never got to vote?

Iowa chose our nominee, NY, FL, and CA, 3 large states did not have a primary when he was still in the race. He was popular and perhaps leading there.

It is wrong to allow Iowa and then NH, two very small states to have that much power.

Thus when you say most Dems disagreed with me, that is simply not true at all. Most Dems NEVER got to vote. They never did. I did not get to vote for Dean when he was still running, though I marked his name anyway. We had a large Dean group here in our city who never got to vote for him when he was on the ballot.

Huge groups in CA never got to vote for him. Large Dean groups and supporters in NY NEVER got to vote for him. Three of the largest states never got to vote.

Please get your facts straight when you want to argue.

[Name removed]

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[madfloridian]

123. SanghO, why do you do this?

I just do not understand. It is a little obvious.

[Name removed]

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[madfloridian]

100. Are both of you here at the same time?

Welcome to DU.

[timesupbush]

122. I'm Having The Same Problem

Are there two people, or just one person posting at the same time under two different names?

[madfloridian]

124. Same person, two names.

.

[Name removed]

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[madfloridian]

130. Well, it is.

It has been allowed for a long time. Neither of them like me either.
LOL

[Name removed]

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[madfloridian]

135. LOL, thanks so much.

I needed that.
:hi:

[Name removed]

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[sangh0]

126. One person, two names

one for work, one for home. Read my sig.

[Name removed]

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[sangh0]

140. Everyone has deleted posts

but that was a pretty funny, yet futile, attempt at a personal attack.

[Name removed]

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[madfloridian]

80. The thinking type of Democrat is in the majority, sangho.

Not the DLC type, not the imperialist type. The majority are those who feel our country illegally invaded another. We hear our nominee saying he would do the same thing, though he knows Bush can not be trusted.

I am sorry but you are always calling me a whiner when I post an intelligent thread. I do not know why you keep getting away with it.

I am a thinking Democrat, and our party ain't thinking of much right now but not offending the right wing.

[sangh0]

119. The thinking type of Dem voted for Kerry

.

[Cleita]

26. Somebody accuse you here at DU?

I recently got accused of being something I am not. I think trolls are doing these ad hominem attacks and they know how to hurt us. These trolls have high posts, but if you look at their profiles, their registration is very new.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. Nope, just a comment on how I feel today.

Just standing up for what I believe in. :hi:

[WI_DEM]

37. excellent

I have always believed the bigger patriots are the people who don't say, "America, Love it or Leave it" but the ones who question what our government does because we love it so much we want it to be an example. In politics I also believe the best democrats are the ones who believe in our parties strong and progressive legacy and want us to return to our roots, not coop GOP ideas and move the party to the right just because some think that is the only way to win an election. We have to convince the American people that liberalism is not a dirty word and that it is liberal principles which have built this country--not conservatism. Do we need newer, fresher ideas, you bet! but we shouldn't abandon our ancient heritage.

[YNGW]

42. Snap Up! Life's Too Short.

>The fact that I fully support a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, assault weapons bans, education reform...all that matters not. I am a traitor to my own party in the eyes of some.

There are Democrats who are in favor of the war in Iraq, pro-life, anti-gay marriage, and pro-gun who also, like you, question the direction the party leaders are taking us, who would be called traitors to their own party in the eyes of some. So what. They have every right to try and shape the party as anyone else.

>Something has saddened me lately.

Rather than be "saddened" by those who would disagree with me, I choose to live and let live. If they want to place you into a box and label you in a way they feel comfortable with, that's their problem.

>We must remember that we are all in this together, and that all opinions are welcome here.

With certain restrictions, I would agree.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. I choose to fight for change.

I choose to question. That's my choice. :hi:

[Kanary]

52. Snap Up! Now, there's a comforting command.

:crazy:

[YNGW]

56. Ha

Not as much a command as just some hopeful advise. I see no reason to get down based upon what an anonymous voice on an internet forum says about me. Sometimes we all need a friendly nudge.

Peace

[Kanary]

64. "Friendly nudge"? From a barking sargeant?

Actually, there was also NO request for "advise" (sp) from the poster.

Maybe it's a generational thing....... younger folks seem to like to boss others a lot. It doesn't go over so well when done with older people. We don't tend to "snap up" and salute just because someone commands it.

Just a bit of a "friendly nudge", sonny.

Kanary

[YNGW]

71. She didn't take it that way.

And that's who I was talking to.

BTW, Mrs G and I are approx the same age. In fact, I'm a little older than her.

[Kanary]

74. She's being more diplomatic.

I'm telling you what many folks my age are very disgusted with.

I'd ask you how effective it is when someone orders *you* around, but it's not really worth continuuing this discussion, when you don't get that ordering people around is less than productive, to say the least.

You just might want to give it some thought, rather than going into automatic defensive mode. And, the next time someone barks an order at you, you might want to consider what effect it has.

Snapping off...

Kanary

[YNGW]

75. Diplomacy comes in many forms.

It was meant to be encouraging and by all appearances she took it that way. If someone has a problem with what I say to them, I feel confident they can express it to me themselves, no need for a third-party.

I'm happy with what I said. Wouldn't change a thing.

[Kanary]

76. According to the RW, diplomacy is "shock and awe"

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. Really, would that it were just the internet.

Message boards do not carry much weight in the personal aspect of life for me..i.e. namecalling and all that. But, to see our party experiencing this ITRW as well, well that's damned disconcerting. :hi:

[YNGW]

72. Keep your chin up.

All wrongs will eventually be righted, through it may not be in our lifetime.

[jukes]

45. don't let some creeps

over-inflated w/ their ideals get you down. i'm *extremely* far left and any1 that doesn't like it can have a "non-specific pronoun" discussion w/me.

in fact, if i read any1 dissing you, we're going to have words.

you're a staple & an anchor to many of us, MrsGrumpy. you have the support of most of us.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

142. Thanks and welcome to DU!

:hi: Good to have you here. :)

[derby378]

51. Just because I want the AWB repealed...

...doesn't mean I'm willing to jump down the throats of Dems who want to keep it in place. There's always room for debate, and it's healthier that way.

Hang in there, Laura!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

55. DU is the first place anyone has called me a centrist, DLC'er and FAR LEFT

all on the same day.

As I have said before, I have workid in public policy for 22 years and seen various factions of the party at each other's throats. I've never been one to claim one corner or the other. I was working on labor rights in California while state after state was passing Right To Work laws....

I think there are unreasonable expectations on ALL sides of this game. I see people on DU complaining about many things that could be changed at the STATE level...I see changes that became national after the GOP pecked away at party unity on a state by state level...deregulation for instance was pecked away state by state WHILE being pecked away at nationally. I see people who are newly entering this conversation that expect instant results without acknowledging that the right took over over a course of nearly 30 years.

I can respect people wanting change and standing for what they believe in...and you know I DO respect you...what I CANNOT respect are those that would TEAR us apart in the middle of the game when that ensures certain defeat. Nobody told anybody to get to the back of the bus but a certain person has posted that statement so many times on this thread and on DU that I think she suffers from Rosa Parks syndrome...the difference between her and Rosa Parks being...Rosa didn't whine on the internet...she ACTED...in real life..and BOLDLY.

[ScreamingMeemie]

86. My primary reason for being active on this board is my feeling that we

need real change within this party. For me, that starts with congresspeople owning their mistakes. It also continues with the American people not being afraid to challenge and question their leaders, and their candidates. There is no perfect candidate for me because I am not running. ( ;) ) I am and will gladly vote for John Kerry. I will even stump for him with PassingFair. And then I expect him to make things right. I will continue to be anti (this) war. I will continue to not be able to swallow any of the excuses that have been given thus far. I just can't. And we cannot as a nation allow ourselves to be told not to question our own party.

I always respect and look forward to reading your opinions NSMA. You are one of the reasons I come here everyday, and I also consider you a great friend and a great Democrat.

Laura

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

108. And I love you :)

[trof]

63. Commie!

<hee>
I don't think you're "against" your own party, or a threat.
There are just some things in the platform, or said in stump speeches, that you don't completely agree with.

It's the same with 'Real Republicans' (not the right-wing-nuts), only moreso.

Remember what Jimmy Carter said. The first thing you have to do to bring about any change at all is GET ELECTED. Until that happens, you don't even have any kind of forum any more to discuss ideas and changes. Not in today's political world, anyway.

You're OK with me, Mrs.G, if that matters.
:hi:

[stevielizard]

77. Steve Carlton here!

[madfloridian]

78. Amen. I am a Democrat, too. A caring one.

It is implied here daily that if we are not in lock-step that we are fringe lefties.

It is all so silly, and so very tragic.

If anything this lockstep thing will backfire when the election is over. I have never felt like this in my rather long life. I am at a Democratic forum with people going after my every post condemning me as a whiner and worse. And they just keep doing it.

We donated to Kerry, we will vote for Kerry.

[merh]

79. Card carrying member of ACLU, tree hugger, civil liberties

loving, bleeding heart liberal and far lefter reporting for duty.
:hi:

[LWolf]

81. This seems to be growing as an issue

here at DU, and in the Democratic Party itself. It's not that I don't want or plan to support the eviction of GWB; it's not that I think the party is all about me. It's not that I don't understand the fear behind the tactics; if I were a fearful sort of person, contemplating 4 more years of * might send me into submission, just like 9/11 and the threat of terror did most of America.

It's that seeing members of your party, your Democratic friends, family, neighbors, and coworkers, buying into and using the RW tactics of fear, aggression, and suppression on their own is disheartening, to say the least.

I haven't seen what you've been up to recently; probably because I've avoided most of the hotspots. But I am concerned, and saddened by the same phenomena.

Hang in there, and keep talking.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

97. Yes.

Your quote is right:
"It's that seeing members of your party, your Democratic friends, family, neighbors, and coworkers, buying into and using the RW tactics of fear, aggression, and suppression on their own is disheartening, to say the least."

Thanks.

[LWolf]

103. Any time.

:hi:

[Zomby Woof]

87. those labels are generally bullshit

Although I think of you as a center-left moderate most times, but really, it's not that important what pigeonhole people want to stick ya.

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. Heh. You bring a grin to my face.

:hi: :hug:

[Zomby Woof]

89. is that ALL???

I should bring a jaw-aching open-mouth smile, with teeth blazing, and green jello dripping from your chin! :loveya: :hug:

[blm]

92. Far left with a major pragmatic streak.

I want us to get FURTHER using our heads and any opportunities that come along, including MAKING some opportunities of our own.

It saddens me that some of us lefties get treated like dirt if we DO want to do everything we can to support the most progressive nominee of the last half century.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Fairly Far Left Over Here..

And unapologetically libertarian (the philosophy, not the party) --even though some consider that a dirty word-- on social issues.

I think I was more centrist during the Clinton years. This administration has pushed me to the left and clarified my opinions on many matters.

• Iraq War? Protested it. Opposed it. Still do. But I don't believe it has a chance in hell of getting any better (along with everything else) if we don't elect Kerry this year.

• Single Payer Health Care? I am 100% in favor of it. At this point, I think it's the only reasonable way to go.

• Woman's right to choose? I flew 3,000 miles in April to make my opinion known on that one.

• Gay Marriage? Civil rights issue, pure and simple. If I can get married, so should they be able to.

In short, I agree with you 100% on the laundry list of issues you put up there. But -- and I'm not saying you do, either-- I don't feel marginalized in this party, for some reason, this year. I am enthusiastically supporting Kerry/Edwards. Not because I have to, but because I want to. I genuinely believe they will be good for this country. Are they going to do everything I, personally want? Probably not. Are they espousing an identical position on every issue to what I believe? Hell no. There are issues, like the inane and wasteful drug war, that my party generally won't even address in any meaningful fashion- because of fear of 30 second soundbites that contain the words "soft on crime".. I feel that one day, this will change, but in the meantime it's not enough to make me lose faith in the Democratic Party as a whole.

As far as this board is concerned, I've been called "reactionary", of all things, because I believe that the government shouldn't be telling people what to do with their own bodies, or telling people what they can read or watch on tv. People are going to hurl invective or defend their patch of ideological territory when they feel it's threatened. But does that change the fact that, presumably, we all want the same thing-- i.e. a change in administration?

I don't think it's reasonable to expect people not to question Kerry, but I do think it's somewhat reasonable to expect people, given that this is a Dem. board in an election year, to support him.

[LSdemocrat]

99. It goes the other way as well, especially on this board

All too often here at DU I see people accuse other members and elected Democratic officials of not being real Democrats or "DINO's" because of their votes on a couple of issues, which really is an insult to people who really don't deserve it (Notably people like Evan Bayh, Harold Ford Jr., and even Joe Lieberman).

Please note: Feel free to criticize Zell Miller, that guy is beyond redemption.

[ScreamingMeemie]

144. And yet we held Joe Lieberman accountable. It's all about being

accountable for one's actions. Especially when one is to be speaking for a nation or a state filled with constituents. This is why the court of political opinion should always be open. Don't make us shut up. By examining these issues we only grow stronger as a party.

[shugah]

101. bleeding heart, here!

'tis true, i am far too left for the dems - but i vote for them anyway, as a rule.

[quinnox]

104. If someone is a Democrat and either campaigns or votes against Kerry

I would say they are a traitor. Especially considering the circumstances the USA finds itself in, under grave threat from incomptetent and dangerous leadership.

All true patriots, both Republican and Democrat, will and should vote against Bush. {Just my opinion}

[madfloridian]

105. You are missing the point of her post. You missed it entirely.

I understood it completely.

[quinnox]

106. I understood the point but I also

wanted to make a statement of my own. Maybe you don't agree with it but there it is.

[HarveyBriggs]

107. Laura, that was a touching letter.

Just want to update you on this.

Per an executive order signed by George W. Bush, at the urging of Donald Rumsfeld, Karl Rove, and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, soldiers who fail to sign an oath swearing lifetime allegiance to the Republican party will be stripped of all combat medals and ribbons upon discharge.

The medals and commendations will be turned over to rich suburban kids who stayed home and spent their mommies' and daddies' tax cuts on expensive hookers and designer drugs.

The spoiled little brats will also receive a free "Texas Air National Guard" mebership certificate and secret decoder ring. My neighbor got one of those rings and decoded "Mission Accomplished," into "Hey, I blew it! But my brother will rig another election for me, so who cares?"

Hey, it's not fair. But that's just the way it goes.

Harvey Briggs

[Lydia Leftcoast]

109. In American terms, I'm far left on economic/political issues

and middle of the road (but laissez-faire)* on social issues.

In terms of most industrialized countries, I'm middle of the road in economic/political terms.

*This means that I support the right of other people to make their own decisions on personal behavior that doesn't hurt others, no matter what I do in my own personal life.

[Thinkb4uvote]

112. Well, I'm not far left

In fact I'm a bit to the right on most issues. I however do support a woman's right to choose, and every republican I've debated over the issue with has respected my opinion. I'm sorry that some republicans may have called you a traitor, but those irrational people occupy both sides of the political spectrum. If you don't believe me just keep reading this board.

[Skidmore]

117. I have many of similar beliefs, but I don't consider

myself "far left". I consider myself liberal and mainstream AND progressive. I know many others who feel the same way. Who cooked up these labels anyway.

[ScreamingMeemie]

137. good question.

:hi:

[ProfLefty]

138. Why?

Has liberal become the equivalent of a dirty word in American politics. Why have Progressives been consistently demonized? If one gives it some thought they may well realize that virtually every benefit and protection we have today is the result of action by those of us who have been labeled "liberals". Manufacturers are held to at least a minimum standard of product quality and safety because of law suits and legislation initiated by "liberals". Children in our country are no longer legally permitted to work under the kind of previously horrific conditions they were forced to endure before "liberals" initiated reform action. Working conditions for all Americans as well as, safety measures on the job have consistently improved because of action by "liberals". We wouldn't even have a minimum working wage in this country if it were not for action by "liberals". Nor would we have civil rights legislation, social security, medicare or many other laws, programs and conditions which benefit all Americans were it not for the progressive philosophies and courageous action of "liberals". I for one am proud to be a left wing, progressive liberal and I choose to identify myself in those terms rather than as a Democrat although I will be enthusiastically supporting John Kerry this election because he is far preferable to Bush. In conclusion...kudos Mrs. G. you can be proud of your political philosophy and secure in the knowledge that many many of us here at the du support and agree with you wholeheartedly.