The Founder's of this country were BIGOTS, and BIGOTS continue

[tnhatesbush]

to run this country..... Same sex couples are being discriminated against just in the same way that blacks and other minorities have been and are discriminated against.... IT IS WRONG!!!! Kind of funny how when you are a kid and in school that we are brainwashed into thinking that all of our FOUNDING FATHERS and past Presidents were heroes but to the contrary, they were most if not all BIGOTS and CRIMINALS>!!!

[freetobegay]

1. Sorry to disagree

But I am proud to say George Washington is the father of our Country. We could have done alot worse.

[DrWeird]

2. I'm not.

He was a fucking hypocritical slave owner who fought for "freedom" but it seems he cared more about lower taxes than any actual freedom.

[tnhatesbush]

3. yes, but

did George Washington not have SLAVES???? I do believe Mr. George Washington was a slaveowner and just as our Founding Fathers RAPED, KILLED AND TORTURED the American Natives, the same thing is happening in Iraq...... I tell you people, the ENGLISH RACE IS THE MOST CRUEL RACE ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET...

[bob reynolds]

4. no, it's not

all people are capable of cruelty and horrible acts.
The British empire has some horrible impacts, but places once part of it are better off now than most of their neighbors (US,Canada,Hong Kong) vs French and Spanish colonies (Algeria, Mexico

[tnhatesbush]

7. you have a point, but.....

look at the world in whole..... the US, England and others go, gind a place that they want and they STEAL it from other nations, no matter what the cost..... I am not UN AMERICAN... but I am a realist.... I can see through all the brainwashing that we are subjected to in early life.... MY favorite historical "rewrite" is the Thanksgiving episode .... I can really see the Indians sitting down to dinner with the Pilgrims..... The Pilgrims were nothing more than a bunch of THUGS who were on a conquest, a conquest to steeal this land from it's rightful owners...

[bob reynolds]

8. many nations/cultures have been colonizers

throughout history. The English peoples are no worse, and better than most

edit: correct subject

[Bridget Burke]

9. Look at all the English have done for Ireland!

After 800 years.

[Cheswick2.0]

11. oh nonsense

The Pilgrims may not have been perfect, but they were good people searching for freedom from persecution.

[K-W]

16. Wow, you practice what you hate apparently.

You are generalizing and stereotyping a group of people. Human beings are human beings, are human beings. The revision of history is a trait of all human societies. Nationalism is a trait of nearly all human societies in modern history. Exploitation, expansion, war, etc have been a trait of nearly all human societies. So maybe the problem here isnt neccessarily the founding fathers.

[BOHICA06]

13. Never faced the Mongols......nt

[Gildor Inglorion]

5. Indeed, they were creatures of their time....

just as we are. They actually thought they were doing good by "taming the wilderness," "converting the heathen," and "civilizing the savages." What we see in retrospect as mass murder, they thought of as defending Christian civilization. Blacks were property, and Jews and Roman Catholics were (sadly) discriminated against. As for their being criminals, certainly they were. The sensible, peacful, law-abiding citizens stayed in Europe! And then the depraved colonists had the gall...the GALL! to commit treason against their benevolent mother country. Same-sex couples, in those days, would probably have been killed out of hand by anyone who discovered them, and that act would have been hailed as the right and proper thing to do. Believe it or not, civilization is progressing, though at a glacial pace sometimes. I think it is now inevitable that same-sex couples will eventually gain all the rights and recognition that different-sex couples now have. And speaking as a gay man, I hope it's sooner rather than later.

[DrWeird]

10. I've heard that argument before.

I understand it but I don't really agree with it. There should be some crimes that are obviously immoral regardless of what historical era it is, like slavery. The Founding Fathers obviously knew the importance of freedom, that's what they said they were fighting for. But they wouldn't grant it to other people because it would cost them financially. It's hate for two hundred years from now for people to be excusing Hitler as a "creature of their time."

[Curious Dave]

6. Thank You! This can't be said often enough.

People think I'm crazy for saying this, but I really believe that LGBT americans are as entitled to reparations as African-amercians. Discrimination is discrimination and fair is fair.

[tom_paine]

12. Everything is relative to the time, you miss that entirely

Thus, in my opinion, rendering your entire argument moot.

Yes, they were bigots, so was EVERYONE at the time.

Relative to the other bigots they were extreemly emlightened and Paine wrote fully against slavery, Jefferson was generally against it (yes, I know he hypcorticially continued to have them), and others were also quite conflicted.

Relative to the times the Founding Fathers were Crazy Liberals.

A little context here is welcome...

[K-W]

14. At the time most americans were bigots.

In the entire history of the human race, we have not come very far in the areas of social justice. We need to evolve our behavior as a species and that takes a damn lot of time. Railing against the founding fathers for being human beings doesnt seem a fruitful endevour for me.

There is still alot of bigotry, personalized and institutionalized in our society. And we need to fight harder than ever if we are going to destroy it. But your anger seems a bit misdirected. Bigotry is nobodies fault. It is a viral way of thinking that we need to eradicate, not a viral group of people.

[BOHICA06]

15. What writer, philosopher, or thinker

in 1780 expounded equality for all, to include women, races, physical ability, religion, national origin, marital status, and sexual orientation?

I sure there could have been, but I've never read or heard about them.

[K-W]

17. Thats just plain silly.

Alot of them thought about it and discussed it. People had different ways of thinking and different ways of understanding then. Things that seem possible now didnt seem possible then. Things we recognize as a matter of fact werent even known to them yet.

[K-W]

18. Why didnt the cavemen invent an egalitarian utopia!!!!!!!!!!!

Then we wouldnt have had any of these silly problems.

Sheesh, lets get mad at reality for being reality.

[Rowdyboy]

19. Well, the ancient Greeks hated and actually KILLED middle easterners

(ie Persians), practiced slavery and enjoyed widespread homosexuality. And they are the fathers of modern civilization!

The Muslims butchered butchered infidels, Chinese butchered and enslaved other Asians and don't even get me started on the Romans.

Some American Indian tribes and Buddhists are pretty cool people, but that's about it. As a whole, mankind is a bunch of flaming assholes. It was so back then, and remains that way today.

Go figure.

[Jefferson_Clinton]

20. your point

whats the point you're trying to make?

i mean i dont really care if washington was a bigot or not

he's still the greatest american ever and he led our country through tough times

besides, if its so bad here, what about bigotry in the middle east or asia or anywhere else

america has easily made the most steps, and look how well we do considering how much diversity is here

stop whining