Gay DU'ers, RE: McGreevey. Go Stonewall on their asses.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

This could be it. Jim McGreevey is being forced from office because he was forced to be closeted. Now, he has found the courage and strength to admit the worst-kept secret in NJ: He's Gay.

But he will still be hounded. He will still be maligned. He will still resign. Because he's gay.

This could be your issue, if you let it. Your "Never Again". Your watershed moment and issue. Your Stonewall 2004.

Do not let this issue go gently into that long good night of the media hole. This impacts on all of you, in every way and every day.

This ain't right. Give it back hard.

Your straight friend, T.

[lynx rufus]

1. Who is he?

I have no idea who he is.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Governor of NJ.

n/t

[SkipNewarkDE]

2. He was forced to be closeted?

Was he also forced to have a wife and a kid?

Was he also forced to sexually harrass a male employee?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. Listen to his address.

And remember one thing, Skippy: Allegations are just that. Allegations. Not proved.

Or have you forgotten where you are?

[SkipNewarkDE]

13. Corruption

There have been corruption charges spinning around this guy for years. I am not going to blindly defend him just because he has the big (D) after his name.

I also personally havea problem when gay men enter into a marraige with another woman, have a kid, and not bother to tell them that, oh, by the way, I'm gay. It is scummy to screw up someone else's life like that.

Regardless, there is something more going on here, resigning just for that reason is kind of silly.

[soleft]

17. sorry this happened to you

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

18. Skip:

Allegations of corruption. None of them have brought action against him.

Do you have any more NJ repuke party talking points you want to share with us? I live here. They are instantly recognizable.

[mountainvue]

86. I've got one for you to shoot

down. New Jersey law says there must be an election because there is no Lieutenant Governor. Is this true? I've got the same Freeper on my ass from yesterday. My repsonse: We didn't have a special election when Nixon resigned did we?

[Jack_DeLeon]

88. Actually I dont think they are allegations...

when you admit to them.

[qanda]

8. Exactly!

He's no victim. He hurt a lot of people and that does not deserve praise it deserves scorn and contempt.

[unfrigginreal]

15. What does he deserve scorn for? Because he was gay and closeted?

Or are you jumping to the conclusion that the rape allegation is true? His wife was by his side during the press conference, yet he deserves scorn from outsiders like you? I don't get it.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

20. That's the entire point.

He could not be a politician and gay. He had to be closeted.

When is this evil shit gonna end?

[unfrigginreal]

21. Don't expect it to end anytime soon...

if the posts on this *progressive* board are any indication.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

23. Tell me.

I am presently wallowing in dissapointment and disillusionment.

As if L'affaire Clinton has not taught us enough on this sort of thing.

[Chelsea Patriot]

67. "He couldn't be a politician and gay. He had to be in the closet"

My city council Representative, Chris Quinn, is a lesbian.

My State Assembly Representative, Deborah Glick, is a lesbian.

My State Senator, Thomas Duane, is a gay man.

All Out and Proud Elected Democrats!

Should Jerry Nadler ever retire, Tom Duane would stand a very,very good chance of being elected to his seat in the House.

As gay man who has lived openly and honestly for the past twenty years, I have much more respect for Quinn, Glick, Duane and other Out and Honest politician like Barney Frank and Tammy Baldwin.

These people are the ones who truly exhibit courage.

[Andy_Stephenson]

77. I ran for Secretary of State as an

Out and Proud Gay Man.

The bullshit about having to be closeted...I grew up in Texas. From the time I was 18 I was OUT. If I can do it in Texas...he could have done it in New Jersey.

If he lies to himself...what makes you think he won't lie to his constituients?

[frankly_fedup2]

81. Not true. He could have stayed in office even coming out . . .

of the closet. Of course, with the allegations against him, he and his family would be drug through the mud. They probably will be anyway.

Now Barney Frank is gay and he is a representative. I do believe he was outed due to an affair with a male intern. Oh the horror. Two consenting adults having sex behind closed doors. How could this happen? (sarcasm)

And wasn't Frank reelected after this affair????

[SkipNewarkDE]

24. Define outsider?

What do you mean outsider? Put it to you this way. I am in my thirties, and I'm not married. Getting the picture, here? While not making any outward statements or bold declarations to my sexual orientation, I personally did the right thing and haven't gotten someone else tangled up in my sexual identity issue to make me acceptable for my career, or to politics or anything else. I have a real problem NOT with people who are closeted, but rather, people who are closeted, cheating around on their wives or in a relationship with their wives merely to prove to everyone else that they aren't gay.

Are the allegations true? Who knows, that's what due process is for. I do have scorn for the air of corruption that has plagued this administration.

[qanda]

27. Because he took a vow to be faithful to his wife

And he broke it. My father cheated on my mother and left our family in ruins-- I have no sympathy for people who cheat. The only victims are the ones they victimize with their selfish acts. If he was gay and wanted to have a relationship with another man then he should have divorced his wife or never married her in the first place.

[hexola]

35. Infidelity...

and...a strike for gay marriage...?

[Andy_Stephenson]

78. A huge strike for the Democrats...

huge strike for marriage...huge strike for the Gay community in general.

[frankly_fedup2]

19. Obviously the latter is why he is resigning. That employee must . . .

be filing a lawsuit or something and it was going to come out then.

So he decided to go ahead and come out now with his family standing by him.

If he is resigning because he is a homosexual, that is ridiculous. His sexual orientation is between him and his family, not the voters. If he had an affair, that is his and his family's business, not the voters.

Why can't politicians have private lives?

[frankly_fedup2]

80. As far as the sexual harrassment . . .

I thought a person was innocent until proven guilty?

[59millionmorons]

4. Why the hell would he resign because of that?

That's just dumb. Who cares if he is gay. Theres got to be more.

[aquart]

5. I want to know the mechanics of the threatened lawsuit.

I want to know who helped this guy decide to topple a governor. A Republican governor was just unseated in Connecticut. Now a Democratic governor ALSO in the tri-state area is unseated?

This story ain't over. And I can't help but feel this story is very dirty indeed. And I'm NOT talking about McGreavey.

[Ripley]

7. I think one of his male aides has accused him of rape.

That's the deal.

[59millionmorons]

9. OH

That makes a little more sense.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. Golan Cipel.

Google the name.

They were in relationship. Hell hath no fury?

[Ripley]

11. So what?

Do you understand the definition of rape?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. Sure I do.

But it seems really, really unlikely in this case.

Do you understand the implications of the word "revenge"? This is politics we are talking about here.

[noiretextatique]

30. i agree...."rape" is a stretch

it seems the two had a relationship...one that makes me *really* question mcgreevey's judgement, btw.

[hexola]

37. Infidelity...

do you know that definition...?

[Ripley]

40. I don't have a clue what your point is.

My response was to someone about rape. Because a lot of posts are making absurd claims. Things like it can't be rape, they were lovers. Things like the lover must be a republican plant. Things like spurned ex and other derogatory remarks about the ex.

No one here is the Governor or the lover and until their is a trial, no one here is privvy to the inside facts.

I choose to not jump on the defend the Dem at all costs bandwagon. And not to dismiss someone male or female who has filed a complaint of sexual harassment just because I like the defendant.

[goodhue]

39. Not rape, rather sexual harassment because of employment relationship.

eom

[Ripley]

43. Sorry if I got that wrong.

I know I read rape charges somewhere in LBN. However, it doesn't change my stance. I truly regret seeing so many DUers automatically say the man is lying and is just a vicious spurned ex-lover who is out for revenge. This guy has a right to his day in court. If it's a bullshit accusation, he'll lose.

[goodhue]

47. I had it wrong as well.

I saw rape as well but I think folks are just extrapolating from sexual harassment. Guess we will have to wait until complaint goes public to know for sure.

Also I agree he deserves day in court. However, if it was bullshit accusation I wonder if he would resign so promptly. Perhaps putting your secret lover on payroll in do nothing position is enough.

[noiretextatique]

49. we was given a well-paid job that he wasn't qualified for

and as others have mentioned, there has been no allegation of rape.

[theboss]

57. I don't buy the rape thing

He is sounding like a scorned lover more than anything.

It still doesn't dismiss the fact that he earned $100K of state money for a job he was not qualified for.

[rocktivity]

73. The rape charge smells to me, too

I mean, wouldn't it be a criminal matter instead of civil one? My guess is that a GOP operative "suggested" that he sue. If there really were criminal grounds to charge him with rape, don't you think the press would be chomping at the bit to attack the Democratic party that way?

:headbang:
rocknation

[aquart]

28. This is the man McGreavey kept giving a job?

And this is the man who kept taking the job McGreavey gave? Was he pressured to threaten to sue? And by whom?

[hexola]

38. Yes...except it was a Blow Job...(nt)

[goodhue]

41. I though so to, but now I think rape is inaccurate.

Rather it is sexual harassment because of employment relationship.

[msmcghee]

12. It seems to me . .

. . he is about to be accused of sexual harrassment, not being gay.

How was he forced to remain closeted (until now)?

Maybe I'm missing something here.

[MikeG]

14. Does he get a toaster or is that just lesbians?

[rocktivity]

22. Randi Rhodes just made an interesting suggestion

Let's have a mass outing all all closeted politicians and let the chips fall where they may. I've read about a group that's been threatening to do it. How ironic this should happen the day gay marriage is struck down in San Francisco.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Kipepeo]

25. BlogActive

BlogActive is the site that is exposing gays and lesbians who work for anti-gay Republican politicians:

www.blogactive.com

[oasis]

26. David Dreier (r) of California, frontman for the GOP, can come out now.

[aquart]

29. Know it for a fact?

[The Flaming Red Head]

31. I think everyone is bi

especially if they're in politics. I wish they'd out some republicans now.

[President Jesus]

32. Before you crown him a folk hero, let's first find out the nature of the..

...lawsuit.

If the lawsuit is nothing mre than extortion, McGreevey clearly should be regarded as a hero and a trailblaizer.

However, if it turns out that he is a sexual predator and genuinely did harass his aide, and ONLY came out so as to fair better in the civil suit, you will seriously regret the support you are advocating for him.

I know we want to always give the benefit of the doubt to Dems, but keep in mind this guy could actually be a sleazebag. Hell, he had 2 kids and 2 wives while fully knowing he's gay. What is that?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Meshuga]

44. There is probably more to this...

He didn't have to resign. Clinton cheated on Hillary and so what if the governor is gay? Not a reason to resign... Something shady probably happened...

[Guy Fawkes]

50. the whole giving-alien-love a position on government payroll,

plus the fact that he was corrupt to begin with...

[goodhue]

71. that is merely the cover story

The back story has to do with sexual harassment, inappropriate employment, conflict of interest and fund raising improprieties.

[theboss]

34. I could care less about his orientation; he's a sleaze in other matters

See my other post on this.

[dsc]

36. One observation, in regards to the marriage

The universal assumption here seems to be that his wife didn't know before he married her that he was gay. While that might well be true, it isn't necessarily true. More than a few women voluntarily enter into marriages with men they know to be homosexual. Given that I know neither party and am assuming none of you do either, I think the assumption he lied to her may well be unfounded.

[progressivebydesign]

42. It's sad that being gay is reason to give up your job..

.. but the infidelity thing is sometimes a harder thing for people to accept. I also read he had numerous other issues recently, and was probably headed out the door anyway. It would be nice if gays could just be themselves and get elected to public office.. but I don't know if the majority of voters are evolved enough for that. It has to be a terrible day for his family. I only hope his wife somehow knew already.. this would be unbelievable to handle...

[theboss]

46. He also hired his unqualified lover for a $100K job

That's the real issue; the fact that it is a gay lover just makes it more sensational.

[kz1500]

45. He's leaving

because basically, the rumors are that McGreevey hired a man with zero experience, for the state anti-terror post who actually couldn't pass a background check, to be paid $110,000 dollars a year... and in reality the guy was just an overpaid gay prostitute?

That's what it says after you get past all the.. Gee feel sorry for me cause I hid my gayness all these years.

kz1500

[DemWitch]

48. That's it... I have had it up to here with this shit...

So the guy's gay, and there might be a scandal... what in the hell is the reason for resignation? Pat Robertson anf that fatass Falwell are going to be spooging in thier pants for the next few weeks over this... meanwhile by him resigning sends the signal that if your gay and caught in a "scandal" than resignation is the only alternative... Henry Hyde, Bob Barr, Fukkin' AHnald, any of these names ring a bell? They can screw up and down the east and west coasts and play it off to youthful indiscretion... but get caught swingin' on a dick and it's curtains. I'm sick of it.

I want Larry Flynt to start outing all these holier than frikkin' thou politicians. Lets find out who's screwing who.

And as fer as him being married and fooling around, well guess what... not all guys are willing to accept, or CAN accept the fact that they're gay until they get into thier 30's and 40's. They shouldn't be slammed because of it.

Now I'm off to gt paper towels to clean up the mess my exploding head made...

[noiretextatique]

51. he didn't resign because he's gay

he's hiding from the real reason by claiming that was the reason. frankly, as a gay american who didn't hire her lover for a well-paid job she wasn't qualified for in the least...he can kiss my grit.

[theboss]

52. It's not because he is gay; it's because he is corrupt

If this was just about being gay, I would be in NJ right now manning the barricades.

Repeat after me: He hired his unqualified gay lover for a $100K a year post in Homeland Security and refused to all a background check on the man, who happened to be a foreign national. Oh, and he was introduced to his gay lover by his biggest campaign donor, who happens to be under investigation for corruption and trial tampering.

That's a lot to repeat, but bear with me.

[DemWitch]

53. it doesn't matter... the corruption is going to be the last thing

on the minds of the Religious Right...

And until the jury declares guilty or not guilty, one is presumed to be innocent of charges laid against them...

Unless that changed with the Patriot Act too :)

[theboss]

55. Who cares about the Religious Right?

They hate all Democrats regardless of their orientation. I'm a pro-gay, pro-choice, pro-union old-school Northeastern liberal.

And McGreevey was a slime who should never have been elected in the first place. Frankly, I would have preferred Whitman again. (Theboss goes running from the room to avoid the rotten fruit being hurled at him).

[DemWitch]

58. No hurling fruit...

and between you and me, I kinda liked Whitman... the thing that gets me is the way it sounded in his resignation speech os that I'm gay, I'm therefore resigning so that there can be an avoidance of scandal...

It sends the wrong message... I'm pissed at him, but I'm pissed that the RR is going to use this and there will be a few swing voters that will suck it up like a Kirby vacuum... I wouldn't be pissed if they said he was so crooked when he dies they'll have to screw him into the ground... but that's NOT what they're going to say...

[theboss]

62. He is overplaying the gay aspect to get sympathy from the pro-gay people

And I think you fell for it to some degree. He's the one who is really turning this into a gay rights issue when it is really a corruption issue.

[DemWitch]

65. Oh, there's no doubt that I am far from subjective on the issue...

I've heard in the past hour at least 15 times, Governor of NJ resigns because he's gay... Maybe I should be more pissed at McGreevey than the talking heads... just don't want to deal with the fallout of yet another outing...

[theboss]

66. This is why I am opposed to any outings

There were a lot of DUers in favor of doing this to gay Republicans a few weeks back. But what happens is in the cacophony, people tie "gay" to "bad." That's what the Religious Right will do here. And McGreevey has actually helped them do it.

I would prefer he say, "I am resigning because I am corrupt down to my underwear." Instead, he's making it seem like he's resigning because he is gay. I think he is doing a tremendous disservive to the gay rights movement.

[Strawman]

82. Agreed. This guy should not be a "poster boy"

I am sympathetic to his personal struggle with his sexuality, but one's personal struggles don't excuse putting one's unqualified lover in charge of Homeland Security for the state of New Jersey and giving him hundreds of thousands of the taxpayer's dollars in what was essentially hush money. Picking someone like McGreevey to represent the struggle for gay rights just makes it easy for the right to cloud the issue and gives them cover for their hateful prejudice.

If he had just had a gay affair and came out, I would support him vigorously and would not want him to resign, but what he did by trying to give his lover the Homeland Security director job is totally inexcusable. He said in his speech he was resigning so that the governor's office wouldn't be "threatened," but it already was compromised when he put his own personal and political interests over the security of the people of his state. That's when he should have resigned, not when he realized he couldn't get away with it anymore.

[hexola]

79. Even if he wasn't gay...

He would be resinging anyway...infidelity - not a popular topic for democrats in an election year.

[malachibk]

54. This infuriates me and then it doesn't

It pisses me off because he's resigning "because he's gay and slept with a man"? That is total bullshit. There had better be some corruption/harassment there or this is a throwback to the dark ages for gay rights.

Then again, that Jack Ryan fellow had to drop out because of light S&M/orgies with his WIFE!

If it's good for the goose...

[theboss]

56. Oh, there is corruption....

Oh yes...there is corruption.

[malachibk]

59. Good to know

(In a twisted kind of way)

[theboss]

61. All the threads have a listing of the sleaze

In brief,

McGreevey's top campaign donor is under a bunch of investigations for fraud and other crimes.

This same donor apparently introduced him to the Israeli gentleman.

Who became McGreevey's secret lover.

And was then hired to a $100K Homeland Security job.

While McGreevey kept him from having a background check, despite the fact he was a foreigner in a sensitive position.

Then he went to work for a lobbying firm (where I am guessing more sleazy stuff happened and will soon emerge).

Then he sued McGreevey for sexual harassment and alleged rape.

This is pretty much Day 1 of the shitstorm. I'm guessing more is to come.

[Susang]

64. Did you read about the Machiavelli incident?

Very, very strange.

[theboss]

69. I justed posted it below

And I posted a thread about the sleave between those two in the Asbury Park redevelopment that I witnessed first-hand.

[Susang]

60. From my Republican brother who lives in New Jersey

We always trade email about which state has the wackier politics, Illinois or New Jersey.

"In a contest for the most bizarre politics, I humbly submit to you
that, with the latest news, New Jersey has just beaten Illinois hands
down for this year. Less than an hour ago, our Governor resigned
because of a gay love affair with an aide, Golan Cipel. It is thought
that he is resigning because Cipel is expected to file a sexual
harassment lawsuit against him tomorrow:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/US/mcgreevey_040812.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/12/politics/main635631.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128836,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5686618/

I highly doubt that the reason our governor is resigning is
because he's been outed as gay. (At least we hope that's not the
primary reason.) We note all the other unrelated scandals surrounding
McGreevey's administration, like the "Machiavelli" and his aide who
hired a prostitute to entrap his brother-in-law. In retrospect, this
could explain why McGreevey tried to hire Cipel as our state terrorism
czar, even though he is an Israeli with little security experience and,
as a non-U.S. citizen, could not get the necessary security clearances
from the FBI or other federal agencies to do the job.

I strongly suspect there is much more behind this than just the affair
and the lawsuit and am waiting for the other shoe to drop. (For
example, there are also rumors that Cipel had been trying to blackmail
McGreevey before filing the lawsuit, although they are unconfirmed.)
Also, next year McGreevey was set to run for reelection, and his
hanging on could have either made it impossible for him to be reelected
or tainted whomever they chose to get to run on the Democratic ticket
if he decided not to run."

On edit: My Republican brother doesn't like the current administration or Bush any more than I do and has no desire to slam Dems.

[theboss]

63. Here is the story on the prostitute

Charles Kushner, chairman of Kushner Companies and the top donor to McGreevey's 2001 campaign for governor, was charged with hiring a call girl to obstruct a federal investigation of him and his companies. Prosecutors allege Kushner paid the call girl $25,000 to videotape her having sex with a witness cooperating in a grand jury probe of his taxes and donations.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=afgISCcSrgbc&refer=top_world_news

[bluedog]

68. Extortion...5million

on Tweety........its breaking with the news casts up there that this man was asking for 5 million to keep quiet...........

[theboss]

72. Maybe all of them will have cells near each other

They could start a Euker tournament.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

70. how gay was he?

Seems like he was pretty straight....wife, kids, straight life, but had this affair on the side.

At best Id say hes bisexual.

[Andy_Stephenson]

74. How Gay was he?

That boy was gayer than George Michael sucking the filling from a Krispy Kreme donut, in a port-a-potty at an Insync concert...

[Andy_Stephenson]

75. No no...he was gayer than...

A pink poodle with a lisp...riding the teacup ride at Euro Disney.

[Andy_Stephenson]

76. No actually he was Gayer than...

a pair of pajamas from Liberache's closet. Thats it!

[Zan_of_Texas]

83. So, where are all the tin-foil hats?

Come on, gang, we can do better than play ping-pong around about the sex and sexuality.

Homeland Security! Israeli national! NJ is next to NYC!

Major donor who is ethically challenged introduced them!

What if Mr. Boyfriend on the side was paid to seduce the governor and get access to the Homeland Security Department AND THE PLANS, ARCHITECTURE, SECURITY FORCES, CODE NUMBERS, COMMUNICATIONS PROTOCOLS?

I'm just saying, let's not let Liberace's pajamas sway us from our appointed rounds (Hi Andy!).

[Andy_Stephenson]

85. I did not want to go there but since you did...

:tinfoilhat:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

84. Why is it only up to the homosexuals to do this?

I've always felt that all good heteros should stop sitting on their hands and start marching and joining up with our homosexual brothers and sisters and join them in this fight, because in the end, this fight belongs to ALL of us.

[booley]

87. well there's also the affair and favoritism...

...that went along with it.

Apparently the guy did do a lot of good stuff for hsi state. but he also had some ethical issues. I think he coud have stayed on if he wanted and tried to make ammends (or at least finished his term) but I'm in Missouri so it don't mean a crap what I think.

Stonewall was in response to decades of harrasment by Police and society. This isn't quite the same.