What McGreevey Did Was Wrong

[liberalpragmatist]

I sympathize with his existence and the fact that he felt compelled to remain closeted and lead a secret double life. It's sad that in the 21st Century, people can't be who they are. Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that he married twice and fathered two children as part of a lie.

It also doesn't justify then going around and cheating on his wife with a gay lover.

Nor does it justify him giving his gay lover a plum position in NJ govt as a security advisor, despite his Israeli citizenship and in possible violation of the law.

I won't take a position on the alleged sexual harassment claims. It seems to me those may be just a blackmail attempt by this Cipel character - by all accounts it was an ongoing consensual affair. Even so, we don't know the details and it may be true. In which case, it certainly isn't justified either.

And in possibly unrelated scandals, it certainly doesn't make McGreevey some kind of gay political martyr. The fact is, even unwittingly, he ran by most accounts an extremely corrupt political operation. Even though he has not been implicated in the corruption cases being filed left and right, he still surrounded himself with people of questionable reputation.

As Dookus, says, he was right to resign.

[DrWeird]

1. Gee, and I thought that kind of thing...

was nobody else's fucking business.

[liberalpragmatist]

4. Well, I never said the personal aspect was cause for him to resign

I was simply saying that was not fair to his family.

But he was right to resign, as Dookus said, b/c of the scandal over giving his lover a plum state security job. On top of that, the man wasn't even a US citizen, but an Israeli.

The ongoing corruption investigations surrounding his staff and his biggest fundraisers is certainly a nail in the coffin as well. That alone could have probably been justification for his resigning.

[theboss]

5. It's okay to hire an unqualified lover to $100K government job?

I think that is the public's business.

If he and that dude were having sex on the beach in Ocean Grove every night for the last ten years, it is nobody's business. The minute he puts him on the state's payroll (and refuses to give him a background check)....it's everyone's business.

If Bill Clinton had hired Monica Lewinsky to run the Security and Exchange Commission, I would be concerned.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. i agree

[latebloomer]

22. Ocean Grove?!?

Now THAT's scandalous!!

[merh]

26. You are right - we should ask George H. Bush (#41) to pay

back to the U.S. treasury the salary of his lover that was his admin assistant or secretary while he held office.

[theboss]

29. I would agree if someone could prove that

Though I do think this is worse since he gave the man a job in Homeland Security in New Freaking Jersey, home of huge ports, huge airports, and easy access to New York and Philadelphia.

If he had made the guy an AA at $22K a year, I could almost forgive him.

[merh]

36. How do you prove anything with the shrub family???

Don't know if any one will be able to prove it, but here is some reference to it:

(snip)
Back in the first Bush presidency Linda Tripp was stationed down the hall from the Oval Office. She somehow caught wind on a long known but well-kept Washington secret: President George Bush had a "special" relationship with a staffer named Jennifer Fitzgerald.

In fact, Bush had been "very close" to this Jennifer beginning in Peking back in the days when Bush was our delegate to Red China. So close, in fact, that Barbara Bush had come home to D.C. in a state of "depression."

Years later, during Bush's vice presidency, Jennifer Fitzgerald held a key staff post – and this caused a virtual revolt among his other loyal staffers. They hated the haughty, pushy and arrogant woman who clearly had more "access" to Bush than they did.

Vice President Bush went to Geneva in 1984 during the arms talks and arranged through our negotiators to stay in a government guest house – with Jennifer Fitzgerald. Our ambassador was aghast!
(snip)

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/2/12/55616.shtml

===========================

Even the RWer's believe the story.

[Yupster]

33. Both Bush and the women denied the affair

The woman is now dead.

Clinton put Gennifer Flowers on the payroll too, but he too denies the affair with her though she claims it.

[merh]

39. It is not an uncommon occurrence.

It is also not nepotism nor can it be considered illegal, unless of course the person never showed up to work and never did a thing.

Now, it may not be wise, it may not be morally or ethically correct and if someone does it, their judgment should be called into question, but it is not uncommon.

Politicans elected to office often appoint friends, supporters, lovers, distant relatives, relative's friends to positions within their admin. The argument being, you want someone you know and trust in the job before you want an unknown.

This is not saying it is right, this is just a post that is trying to show the continued double standard that is just as wrong as the appointment!

(and it is simply my honest opinion)

[theboss]

43. Clinton finally admitted it

In his book and under oath during the Lewinsky mess. He says it was a one-time thing though.

Frankly, I always thought that Clinton's real scandal was not disgracing the office but in trying to get Lewinsky a job afterwards. Granted, it wasn't a government job, but it was pretty sleazy. If he had put her in a high-paying government job, I would have agreed with impeachment.

[Warpy]

8. Right, no kidding, it's nobody's business but his, his

wife's and his lover's. This is beyond stupid. I have a sneaking suspicion something else is at work, maybe involving some heavy blackmail from some quarter hostile to a Democratic governor.

Yeah, he's a rat of a husband. No, it's none of anybody's business.

[theboss]

9. He put his unqualified lover on the state payroll

For Homeland Security....in New Frickin' Jersey, probably the second most important in the country as far as Homeland Security.

That doesn't strike you as . . . odd?

[shanti]

15. unfortunately

he MADE it our business.

[Yupster]

32. If he put his lover

on the state payroll, then it becomes the taxpayers' business at least.

[noiretextatique]

2. his private life is his business

including his affair, his children and his marriages. as to using his influence to give his lover a job...he was right to resign for that.

[Yavin4]

3. Yep. That's Why He Resigned His Office

New Jersey will find another governor, and we move on. End of story. We've got two hurricanes about to land, and we don't have enough National Guardsmen to handle this disaster. We're engaged in yet another battle in Najaf, and the economy is in the tank.

I really don't care about McGreevey's personal life at this point.

[Fla Dem]

27. Perspective, perspective, perspective

You hit the nail on the head. If McGreevy was corrupt and used his office inappropriately, he is right to resign. His personal life is his and his family's business. Except for the fact that he deceived the voters of NJ.

But as far as a national story goes....who cares. And yet it will be all over the talk shows tonight and radio tomorrow. It will be framed as another sterling example of a Democratic politician with no values. How much you want to bet that they will all utter Clinton's name in the same breath.

But what are really our priorities ?

I just got finished reading Robert Fisk's account of the situation in Iraq...posted by Dancing Dave. That my friends scares the heck out of me. We are sooo in a quagmire over there and no one in the mainstream media is reporting it. They are so afraid of being called biased by the rw commentators and politicians. But that country is going down the tubes fast. It is going to become another Afghanistan, with the Muslim hardliners imported from Iran running the country. If they thought it was bad before with Saddam..wait until Iran takes over.

This was a ready made situation for Iran. They have always wanted the Iraq territory, and now they will get it by default, thanks to the wrongheadedness of Bush and the neocons, and our silent, hear no truth, see no truth, report no truth mainstream media.

Good bless all those American service people George W. Bush has sacrificed for a non-winnable conflict and the thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens who have been killed in this reckless, worthless war.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. You seem more upset than his WIFE did.

:eyes: Damn. Give the guy a break.

[goodhue]

7. It's not the cheating, but the employment relationship that was wrong.

While adultery may break some moral codes it is not unique nor against the law. But treating an employee differently because of sex is big time legal problem, particularly if reason for job is sex. It's a matter of employment law and official conflict of interest.

[xchrom]

10. amen brothers and sisters -- hellfire and damnation

to all those sodomites and adulterers -- they are evil and should be roundly condemned.
god's wrath will fall on the u.s. if we don't run out these sodomites and adulterers -- and i have it on good authority that people who pick their noses while driving are in the same boat. death to them as well!:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Guy Fawkes]

12. You didn't read any of this, did you.

[xchrom]

17. yes i read it -- critiquing, moralizing, speculating

about peoples personal lives and the various twists and turns they make -- is stupid and vicious and tasteless to me.

[Guy Fawkes]

18. Then you've missinterpereted it!

No one spoken ill of McGreevy for being gay! But he *did* give his lover (gay/straight, doesn't matter) a high-ranking position, even though he wasn't qualified!

[xchrom]

21. i'm talking about the high handed

moralizing position people take over the revelations of this man or any man or woman having an affair -- it's none of your damn business and who are you to judge him?
you are better than him?

[carpetbagger]

30. It is a moral issue.

I've had to work in places where the supervisor was banging another employee, and then that employee ends up in a high position. It's totally messed up, both for the employees and for the people the agency serves.

[xchrom]

31. oh please -- spare me

so have we all. that's life.
in different situation it just as easily be you.
or any body -- affairs of the extra-marital sort are personal and nobody's damn business.

[theboss]

34. Should we blindly accept corruption as "just life?"

Look, I could understand your point if he had hired his lover as his limo driver or something. He put him in Homeland Security. In New Jersey. Where God knows how many planes and boats arrive from overseas everyday.

Corruption needs to be stopped no matter who perpetuates it.

[theboss]

14. I'm all for sodomy.....Hooray for sodomy!!

I'm not in favor of hiring a partner in sodomy for a high-paying state job and then getting embroiled in some kind of harassment suit.

[Logansquare]

16. Ironic that he seems to be resigning over the gay issue

and not the corruption issue. I heard that he hired another "assistant" after getting rid of Cipel.

[theboss]

19. Frankly, it makes him a sympathetic character

Look how many people here who seemed to have fallen for the trick.

I think it was Mickey Kaus who called this sort of act "Disrespecting the Bing." It's from the Sopranos episode where Ralphie killed the stripper and instead of apologizing for killing her, he apologized for doing it at Tony's "headquarters." It's an apology for a lesser crime in order to take attention off the bigger crime.

In this case, McGreevey is up to his neck in corruption. Lovers on payrokk. Donors under indictment. Civil lawsuits for sexual harassment. It's a remarkable amount of stuff. If he resigns in the face of any of these charges, they may come after him with pitchforks.

Instead he resigns for being a closested homosexual. Not he's a folk hero. It's a pretty remarkable act.

[cally]

13. Yes

He was wrong. I'm not convinced his wife did not know but if he lied to her then he is wrong. If he gave a position to his lover then it's wrong. I sympathize on a personal level but I don't support him anymore.

[NashVegas]

20. What I Want to Know About Cipel

Was he McGreevey's Piers Gaveston, or Katrina Leung? Looks more like the latter, but ya never know.

[aquart]

24. Who's Katrina Leung?

[goodhue]

40. Chinese-American who bagged FBI's James Smith

eom

[goodhue]

38. Gaveston

eom

[aquart]

23. BUT is the "harassment scandal" the result of Republican shopping

for revenge for Rowland?

In which case McGreavey's secret sexuality made him an easy target, especially if they could get the lover to turn on him. I don't like to give fodder to the anti-Zionist crowd here, but I felt sick when I heard the man was Israeli. A gay Israeli, how many points of pressure is that, exactly? If he belongs to the segment that believes Bush is a good thing for Israel.....would he go along with a Republican scheme?

Would that be enough to make McGreavey a martyr in your mind?

[theboss]

25. Did they make him bang him?

Unless they had a gun in the bedroom (or rest stop restroom or whatever), then no.

[aquart]

35. So adultery is the crime here? Or gay adultery?

You believe a man fucks his country when he fucks his mistress? Or mister?

Because I would so much rather he fuck his mistress than the country.

[KoKo]

42. WTF! Whatever it is...he's not fit to be Govenor! (eom)_

[TheDonkey]

28. Most on DU would agree. But we need to discuss how this happens

and why society makes it necessary for so many honest men and women to lead these hurtful, dangerous, and sad double lives.

[Uzybone]

37. He was right to resign

simply for propping up his lover (allegedly) in a plum job. Thats pretty serious folks.

some respones here are once again showing me how many knee jerkers we have here. This is not about his sexuality or his affair. Its not about lying either.

[KoKo]

41. He should have told the truth...so that it didn't come out now when we

don't need this "distraction." FGS...if you have a sexual preference state it UP FRONT...we don't live in the Dark Ages here. But to take down fellow Dems who are already "swimming upstream" on this issue by pretending and living a life of lies, and NOT figure that ROVE/REPUGS are going to find you out and track you down and thereby take down the Dem Party over this says you are one selfish Bastard...who only cared about your fame...claim to fame..and what it could do for you.

A POX on McGreevy! A man who's sexual preference overwayed his moral obligation to his own Party which is in such desperate times.

:puke: to McGreevy's Vanity! Same as if he had a prostitute in sitting in the "whore house" for his pleasure...No difference Gay or Straight...he should have been straight out with those who voted for him and not waited until NOW!

[greekspeak]

44. Sir or Madam...are YOU gay?

?

[liberalpragmatist]

45. No, and I never condemned him for being gay

I just was stating my opinions that:

no. 1) what he did to his family was wrong. I'm not going to condemn him for this or call him a blasphemer or anything like that - it's a private issue about which he should deal with his family. And I can sympathize with his desire to remain closeted and lead a double life b/c homophobia is still present. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that his actions were all totally good and he's probably hurt some people in the process. Now he'll have to deal with that and I hope everything works out well for him and I wish him the best. That's all.

no. 2) He should not have given his lover a high-level homeland security post, especially given that he was not qualified and that he was an ISRAELI citizen. That's illegal under US law. He should resign over that and he is and he's doing the right thing.

no. 3) His administration is corrupt even if he personally is not and in that sense he's been ineffective.

[greekspeak]

46. Blame it on the culture

Unless you have walked a mile in a gay person's shoes, I suggest you withhold your righteous indignation about how a gay person comes out. You cannot imagine what it is like to be a gay person in a homophobic society. It is a unique experience all unto itself. And that the man is in politics...god the standards to which he has been forced to hold himself. Maybe if this back-asswards society was more interested in "ALL PEOPLE ARE CREATED EQUAL" instead of shoving the Bible down others' throats. Thank the fundevangelicals like Pat Robertson and his ilk for keeping America in the Middle Ages when it comes to "seeeeyuhn."

I cannot speak to the man's record as governor. If he has been corrupt, he needs to be put on trial for that, and his sexual orientation should be left out of it. I am sorry his family has to put up with it, but families are torn apart every day all across America, just like this one has been.

[ibegurpard]

47. I'm gay and I HIGHLY resent

this scumbag wrapping himself in the mantle of gay people who have endured hardships and sacrifices because they chose to live their lives with integrity.

[greekspeak]

49. As a gay man who himself lives his life "with integrity..."

if by that you mean being out and open, I will prefer to remember the difficulty of telling my freinds and family those two little words, "I'm gay." Not every gay person is going to march in the parade. Not every gay person is comfortable with having his or her life turned upside down so they can live "with integrity." Coming out in and of itself is a hardship and a sacrifice, to oneself, to one's family and freinds. It is NOT easy, and I have a hard time faulting this man for not riding on the first float in the parade alongside the effeminate man in the lace-up football pants.

[NavajoRug]

50. I'm not gay, but . . .

. . . I agree with you 100%.

In fact, as I watched McGreevey's press conference today I felt utterly insulted -- as if I were gay and despised him for using his sexuality to hide the real reasons for his resignation.

[ldf]

51. and I'M gay and my respect for him has increased

dramatically.

rather than be dragged through the dirt by a blackmail scheme that could hurt him, his family, AND the office, he would rather be honest.

how shameful.

and for some other points by other posters, up to his neck in corruption due to a couple of donor's questionable associates?

can you vouch for all of your friends/supporters? get real.

being charged with sexual harassment and/or rape? another get real. the man didn't have to do anything he didn't want.

AND he got a plum job out of it. THAT is questionable, to an extent, but certainly not illegal. a good question would be how he got the job. was that the beginning of the blackmail? give me a good job, or else?

mcgreevy has now become honest with himself. he can now be himself. it is going to be hell in the short term, but in the long term he will realize that this will result in a much happier life for him.

i wish him well, and will give him as much support as i can.

the piece of trash who was trying to set him up for rightwing media fodder, and get rich off of it, is a whole different story.

now mcgreevy can hopefully find a decent guy to realize the joy of a real gay relationship.

my respect and best wishes also go to his wife and family. they obviously love him and want him to be happy.

[NavajoRug]

52. If you really believe everything you've written here . . .

. . . then you are terribly naive.

McGreevey has been a crooked politician in this state for as long as anyone can remember. And today he used his "coming out party" to hide the fact that the real reason for his departure is that he's as corrupt as the day is long.

If you find that admirable, then we're living on different planets.

[TeacherCreature]

54. I see that his wife was standing at his side...however I doubt she wants

him to be happy. She is doing her duty for whatever reason, but I'll bet anything she hopes his dick falls off.
But then again she is not really needed anymore so who the hell cares what she thinks?

[soggy]

48. fuck that jackass, he was AGAINST gay marriage!

everybody can be as self-righteous as they want to be, but we all know we'd have gone after blood if he were a republican...

that hypocrite deserves what he gets

[troublemaker]

53. Agreed. He's a rat, and disgusting for playing for sympathy