Honest Question: Was Condi qualified to hold the job she has?

[merh]

I just want to know what the majority of DUers think.

[jeff30997]

1. No.

[FrenchieCat]

2. HELL....

NO!
She didn't have enough imagination to envision planes running into buildings....

[zoeb]

14. Imagination...

That was the commission's polite way to say, " they had their heads up their arses!"

She lost most of her credibility when she sat before the commission and told them the August PDB, Bin Laden determined to attack the United States, was a historical document. She didn't know what she was doing and she was a bad liar. Bad combination for politics!!!
She and the rest of Bush's administration dropped the ball on 911!

[Katherine2]

3. NO!!!

She is the National Security Advisor. I believe her job is to coordinate between intelligence agencies. She is a total failure. She has even said that she is not a typical NSA, she's more of a sounding board for Bush. So now they have to create a new "intelligence czar" to do the job she should have been doing. I don't get the whole Condi is god thing.

[Elwood P Dowd]

4. She was a Cold War expert

and didn't know a damn thing about terrorism. Richard Clarke has forgot more about the subject than she knows today.

[indepat]

40. A Soviet expert, but there ain't no more Soviet Union

[DODI]

5. Obviously not.

She is an expert on Russia and the USSR (remember them), not real useful these day.

[Leilani]

6. She was The Bush Foreign Policy Teacher...

probably a couple of thousand people have better security credentials.

[theboss]

7. Qualified? Yes. Capable? No.

She had the credentials to do the job. But she's clearly been a failure.

[merh]

11. What credentials does she have that makes you state she had

the credentials to do the job?

[cally]

24. Yes...she has the resume

and the qualifications on paper. She is completely incompetent though.

[ThomWV]

8. No More Or Less

She is no more or less qualified than the rest of that dispicable gang which is the Administration.

She is certainly an agressive and intelligent woman, she didn't get where she is by being stupid.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. Are the

twin towers still standing? EOM.

[MichiganVote]

10. clueless

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

12. She's A OK if

the job description includes lying and accessory to murder.

[mitchum]

13. Bush concubine?

She seems eminently qualified

[pinto]

15. No. I think she was brought on as an academic neocon supporter,

a Soviet/Russian expert and a supporter of Star Wars. She was immediately over her head in what has turned out to be an administrative civil war.

[Cleita]

16. Well, being her expertise is as a Sovietologist and

being there is no longer a Soviet Union and that she was known not to have a very good grasp of the Middle East when appointed to her position, I would say a resounding NO!

[liberalpragmatist]

17. No.

She was a Sovietologist. She has no background in terrorism or post-cold-war national security.

[janx]

18. In our household, we have wondered about this for years.

Condi is supposed to be the National Security Advisor. After all hell broke loose on 9/11, that position seemed to have been replaced with Director of Homeland Security.

Condi does PR on the talk shows. It's really despicable. She's probably a fine human being--she doesn't lie very well.

Recently, they have trotted out a Homeland Security Advisor for PR duty as well. I can't remember her name, but her function seems the same.

Can anyone post a job description for the National Security Advisor? I'd like to see, formally, what that job description entails. I'm ignorant and have never seen such a description. I suspect she was supposed to have "connected the dots" (I'm so tired of that expression), or at least to have presented information to the president.

Am I wrong? Where is the job description?

[merh]

19. Kick

[emulatorloo]

20. NONE of them are. . . .Why Single Condi Out?

Ms. Rice is capable and intelligent. . .this is just the wrong job for her.
Dick Cheney has lots of experience. . .and yet his judgement is just horrible.

[merh]

23. Because she never held a postion in a white house admin before.

chaingang f'u and rummey have.

The point is, are credentials and qualifications required to give a person a job in the admin, any admin?

[sleepystudent]

25. yes she did...

She was a Soviet Union expert in either the Reagan or first Bush admin.

[merh]

31. If you can provide me with a link I would appreciate it,

I don't recall that being the case.

[sleepystudent]

32. here...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html

Though this was so easy to find you probably should have just done it yourself before making assumptions. Just read the whole thing-she was in the first Bush admin for three years. She was also served in various capacities in the Reagan and Clinton administrations.

And I am not going to lie-I don't like her politics-more to the point I am saddened by how she has chosen to use her intelligence, but I am so suspicious of the idea that she is not "qualified"-if she was not a black woman, this questioning of her credentials would not come up as frequently.

And with that may lightning strike me down for defending Condi Rice. But I mean what I wrote.

[H2O Man]

37. I don't think you are defending Condi....

You are just being accurate.

[merh]

56. The poster was not accurate.

You are mistaken in your assumptions as was the poster.

[H2O Man]

58. The poster was accurate.

You said of Rice that "she never held a position in a white house admin before." The poster noted she had. You challenged the poster. The poster provided information on Rice in not only Bush #1, but also lesser positions or Reagan and Clinton. It's amazing that you would see this as supporting you, and indicating the poster was "mistaken in ... assumptions." I think the poster was very accurate in all the information included in these posts.

[merh]

61. I did not challenge the poster, I admitted my ignorance and

requested a link, which the poster kindly provided. I then thanked the poster and pointed out that the poster's assumption relative to the question not arising if CR was not a black female was not accurate. The issue would be raised regarding any female assigned to a post that she lacks the credentials, experience and qualifications. Many posters are of the opinion that CR lacks all 3 and race has nothing to do with it. I believe she is in over her head and it is because of her personal relationship with the shrub that she has the job. Her race has nothing to do with that post or my belief.

The poster was not accurate in the assumption that race was involved in the inquiry and/or the belief that CR is not fit for the position.

As always, you have twisted the substance of the post and you are wrong. The only thing lacking is some else's quote.

[H2O Man]

64. Oh, I see your mistake.

You should read a little closer: I had agreed on Condi's experience in employment at the White House. That was on post 56. You disagreed with the other issue on your post, which was 61. I really wasn't disagreeing with what you would post in the future! No, just that Condi has significant experience in three administrations, which you apparently didn't know when you claimed she didn't. So I agreed with the poster that Condi did; you said that I was, like the poster, wrong. You are certainly entitled to your interpretation.

I like your Voltaire quote. One of my favorites. You know much about Voltaire? Read many of his essays? Maybe we could discuss something we agree upon for once? And, by the way, I share your contempt for Ms. Rice, though perhaps for slightly different reasons.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

39. Thanks for the link. I don't think she is qualified and being an

assistant in an admin is not adequate experience in my opinon for the position she holds. Also her credentials as others have pointed out here, are not sufficient for the task she has been assigned to.

Your assumption regarding the questioning of her credentials because she is a black woman is way off base. I would have questioned her credentials is she were a white woman, or an asian woman or other ethnic origin.

I don't like show piece appointments and neither should you. There is a question relative to her personal relationship with the shrub, and the question was relative to her appointment to a position she is not qualified to hold because of that relationship.

I vehemently resent the assumption that my inquiry has racial tones.

Grow up, not everything is related to race. Yes, her qualifications would be questioned if she were a white woman because she is in over her head and her relationship with shrub is so "special".

[sleepystudent]

60. resent it all you want...

I stand by it. And your response to me simply justifies what I wrote the first time. You simply took out the race issue and said you would have questioned her whether she was a white *woman*, an asian *woman*, etc. So a woman is automatically in over her head apparently. And a woman with a "special" relationship with a man in power-just can't resist the sexual innuendo.

And sometimes it seems like women and minorities can't win in these situations-if they do make it to a high level, there will be someone criticizing their credentials no matter what and calling them a "show piece".

And why single her out? You could substitute in any Bush admin official and question their "special" relationship, their credentials and qualifications-she just seems like the easiest to attack, for the reasons I brought up previously.

[H2O Man]

63. interesting points.....

And well said. Speaking in general .... not just about this, but just in general ..... I find that people with narrow minds, who subscribe to any of the diseased "-isms" (racism, sexism, etc) are often offended when you point it out. It shouldn't matter if Condi Rice is black, female, young, or if she's attractive or ugly.

She has a significant educational background, and decades of experience. And her political beliefs are terrible. It's her belief system that makes her "wrong" for the job. Same as Dick Cheney. Same as Donald Rumsfeld.

In my opinion, the only person who lacks the "qualifications" for the job is George W. Bush. It would be curious to hear how Condi is not qualified to advise George on politics.

Again, there is nothing I like about Condi Rice. I think she has done a terrible job. But not because she is black or a woman. I appreciate that you have pointed out the "-isms" that appear to play a role in some people's thinking.

[merh]

66. You can think what you want, the post contained no racial over tones

and it is said that you have no qualms insulting others by mistakenly alleging that it did.

As I female, I have every right to comment on other females that are given positions as token examples that the admin or the party is diverse. That, in my opinion, is what she is, a token appointee.

She is not qualified, her credentials were not adequate for the post and she definitely lacked experience for the position. Even if she had the credentials and was qualified, she has totally failed as a national security adviser, therefore, she is an embarassment to all females.

Token females are more harmful to the efforts of females to be recognized for their work and not their sex than any other factor, especially when they cannot do their job and are as CR is, a miserable failure.

It is not just my opinion that she is a failure, read the other posts in this thread and remember 9/11.

Wake up and smell the coffee, females like CR are more harmful to the efforts of females to be taken seriously as professionals than they are helpful.

[Karenina]

70. The original post had clearly discernable

racial code. The one above is jam-packed. Pass the popcorn. ;-)

[H2O Man]

71. A few years back

a group of neo-nazi shitheads attacked my nephew in a dark parking lot. They attacked him from behind, with two of the gang of 15 hitting him .... one with a rock, one with a bottle. As my nephew lay on the ground, unconscious, with his hands in his pockets, the gang beat him savagely. Three men were arrested. They weighed 280, 290, and 310 pounds. Witnesses to the crime said they were like "a pack of wild dogs." The doctors at the two hospitals that treated him in the following days said that most human beings would be dead from the attack, that my nephew only survived because he was a big, strong kid, with neck and shoulder muscles twice as thick as most people his size.

Although the gang was yelling things such as "you stupid fucking nigger," and "you need to learn your place, nigger," the judge determined that this was NOT evidence of racial motivation.The gang-leader, who admitted punching and kicking my unconscious nephew more than a dozen times, was given a $50 fine .... because he had an open beer when he attacked my nephew. No consequence for the beating. When the judge announced his decision, the family and friends of the nazis stood and cheered. Outside, the guy's attorney told the media that this was proof that racism was not involved.

Within a year, the gang would take part in a drive-by shooting into a house where a white high-school girl was entertaining a black student, and a vicious series of attacks against Asian-American students at SUNY-Binghamton. At the college, three nazis, including the 290-lb leader (who was a NYS-runner up heavyweight wrestling champion) beat a 125-lb Asian-American student, fracturing his skull, and leaving him for dead. He received no punishment for this. None.

Racism is very real. It's just some people have trouble identifying it. Even on DU.

[Karenina]

72. I pray your nephew

has fully recovered physically. I am SO SORRY. :hug: The psychic toll of racism is debilitating, the DENIAL being a large contributor to the difficulty calling it out. It's like being punched in the nose then being told by the attacker, "Oh, that didn't hurt!" as you stanch the blood...

[H2O Man]

73. My nephew is now deaf in one ear.

He has chronic pain from the massive amount of scar tissue on his neck and shoulder. He was not able to take advantage of his sports scholarships, and of course lost his opportinuty to play professional football.

On the other hand, before the attack, he had always wanted to be employed in law enforcement. My family has had state police, NYS BCI Investigators, FBI, and MI agents over the generations. But the attack changed that. He began to see my line of work (psychiatric social work) in a new and different light. And now he has graduated from college and works with young men who are incarcerated.

When he came to the mental health clinic where I was employed before retirement, one of my most respected associates ( a forensic psychologist of some fame) said that I should be sure he got into our field of work. He called my nephew "the gentle giant," which masde me laugh, because the faculty at his high school had that same nick-name for him.

It amazes me that there were people who didn't see the incident as racially motivated. That shows the depth of the pathology of racism in our society. I've often thought if it were the other way around, and a gang of black militants attacked a white athlete, and were yelling racial slurs as they kicked his unconscious body, the public may have viewed it differently.

[Karenina]

77. No doubt.

I've been waiting for a DSM description for DECADES.

When such an egregious attack occurs and the "it-wasn't-racially-motivated" denial prevails, it reminds us yet again how FAR we have to go. Is it any wonder that the coded message provided by the OP is indecipherable to most here?

Discussing racial issues on DU is mostly a big fat BUMMER.

[sleepystudent]

82. wow...

This is even sadder because you are a woman yourself. The trashing of Condi Rice for her qualifications or lack of credentials is so classic a method of attack against women in high positions. It may happen to you someday and it's sad that you are resorting to this when there is so much more you could go after her for. And an "embarassment to all females"? Huh? And what gives you the right as a female to call someone a token female and have it be somehow more accurate or nicer since you said it? She is an embarassment to the Bush admin and the nation as a whole, not to her race and gender.

Your arguments make no rational sense or say more about your attitudes than you would like to think. You should have just said she sucked at the job and here are examples of her bad performance than just saying she didn't have the "credentials" and was a token before she was even appointed to the job and showed what she could or could not do-those are just your assumptions and they just point out your knee-jerk presumptions about women and minorities in high federal positions IMHO.

[ursacorwin]

74. black woman here,

and jeebus! it's so clear why and what she is. of *course* they have her because she's an uncle tom. i could do something like this (i'm getting my phd at a conservative school) and i know the black folk around here who make this choice.

she's a woman. and a light skinned person of diverse racial heritage. everyone here seems to be addressing her actual qualifications for her job, for which she had none. it isn't about her race, sex, or age except where those things are relevant to her performance- and they never are. what we're discussing here is if she, like bush, is the worst person ever to hold that job.

and she is.

[lastliberalintexas]

76. Glad I wasn't the only one to notice that

And you're right about the other administration officials. Where are the threads questioning their abilities/qualifications/whatever?

[Tellurian]

50. I hear Condi is a pretty good pianst...

Is there a lounge in the White House?

[0rion]

21. NOPE

[Yupster]

22. I think her qualifications were adequate

I'm sure there have been others with less qualifications.

She has certainly done an inadequate job though.

Read Herbert Hoover's resume before becoming president. You couldn't find a more qualified man in all of America's history. Yet, by most accounts, he did a lousy job.

On the flip side, Robert E Lee was tremendously qualified to be the head of the Army of Northern Virginia. By most accounts, he did an exceptional job. Yet he still lost.

I guess the point is you can't go by qualifcations. Better to go by results.

And even that's not always fair. Not to people who admire Lee's generalship anyway.

[Doctor_J]

26. no, she was an expert on the USSR

and other cold war issues. She would've been qualified to be NSA in the carter or reagan admins. In that case, though, she would still be corrupt and incompetent, just like she is now.

[opihimoimoi]

27. The Doctor is right, NO, the results is confirmation. She was supposed to

advise the President on NATIONAL SECURITY.

This mean PROTECTING THE UNITED STATES FROM ATTACK...if I get it right, thats what Security means?

And her friend, Rummy the Dummy, he was supposed to DEFEND AMERICA?


These 2 bananas got their things caught in a wringer and are both in Denial....

Condi was not qualied and the 9/11 proves it. Dropped the ball man.

[progdonkey]

36. not even an expert on the USSR

One of my best friends at college told me about his mother's experience at Stanford. I'm not sure if his mother's still there, but she worked on the faculty while Rice was Provost (I think that's what she was). According to him, everyone on the faculy absolutely detested Rice. His parents are rather politically conservative, but they both viewed Rice as a total hack.
She's been lauded as some great expert on the USSR, but she's a complete adherent to the whole "Reagan did it all by himself" BS that passes for good conservative foreign policy analysis these days. To Rice, Reagan said, "Tear down this wall," and the Russians complied because they were scared of the big, strong American. Containment is a myth to hacks like Rice (hmm, where else had containment been working, only to be screwed with by a fake cowboy?).

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bossfish]

30. Go sit in the corner...

(but that IS funny)

[oasis]

29. Hell no. She couldn't connect the dots before 9/11which was her job.

Tom Ridge is currently doing her job.

[Tight_rope]

34. Tom Ridge is fucking up too...he's no better...all of them are useless ass

[Tight_rope]

33. Not just no....but "HELL NO"!

[uhhuh]

35. Hey! I thought there were no sex threads allowed.

Oh, you mean her role as NSA? I don't think she fits the job well.

[Karenina]

38. Well, it depends on what you mean.

If you mean "National Security" in a generic sense, clearly her credentials are outdated. However we do know the most IMPORTANT qualification of any *appointee is the ability to forego truth, decency and soul to betray the American people while propping up an *illegitimate, destructive regime. In THAT she's AMPLY qualified (in a Porter Goss kinda way). ;-)

[marquett]

42. Ms Rice

has better credentials that 80% of the last 5 adminstrations cabinets.

The two smarttest presidendents were Carter And Hoover. For what its worth

[Wickerman]

48. Did you pull 80% out of your back pocket, or do you have

a link for that?

Normally this only gets awarded in the section we call Justice and Public Safety, but I just love stat tossed so casually I'll award it here:



Stop by the "gungeon" sometime - I imagine you will find it easily

[marquett]

51. yea I did pull that out of my ass

I have tried to prove quoted numbers as wrong before with disasterous results.

Anyway. The credentials of Ms. Rice are hard to better. Disaprove her politics fine, hate the job she did fine. Find 20 people that had better cedentials? Start typing.

[Wickerman]

53. not my job

my job is stats. type yourself, however I agree that everyone in Bush's cabinet, hell perhaps even on the custodial staff was better qualified than Bush himself.

[marquett]

55. here is the cunundrum

Disagreeing with a mod is like trying to pull a tooth from an ailing Croc, usually ends badly.

George W. Bush met every qualification to be President. We might think him a dolt, but qualified? Yes

[Wickerman]

57. when out on the board posting for fun I am not

a mod. Just a regular guy.

I don't argue the fact that he is qualified by letter, but I do argue that the custodians of the Oval Office were better prepared than Bush.

[tanyev]

41. NO.

I couldn't believe it when she testifed to the 9/11 commmission about all the briefings she had received and when she was asked why no action had been taken, she said something about how they were historical...blah, blah, blah, there were no recommendations for specific action.

Excuse me? Aren't you the National Security Advisor? Don't the briefings come to you so that you can evaluate them and make some recommendations? I so wish one of the commissioners had nailed her on that.

[Hidebo]

43. yes

Since we did not have any terrorist attack since 9/11

[tanyev]

46. Hmmm.

Just because my house hasn't been broken into doesn't make me a home security expert.


Welcome to DU.

[ProfessorGAC]

49. Gee, Didn't She Have The Job Prior To 9/11?

Well, well, well! She did have that job, and couldn't prevent the one, so we now give her credit for the ones that may or may not have been attempted?

My dog displays better logic than that!
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

44. No, She Was Not

I question her qualifications for any foreign policy job, but her expertise, her Ph.D. and her background all were rooted in U.S.S.R. policy orientation.

This in no way qualified her to have a position of influence in national security with regard to the world as it existed in 2001.

The only nuclear rival (China) was already an economic partner, unlike 95% of the Cold War with the Soviets. So, the model, oneupmanship, periods of detente, etc, was not suitable for China.

The other countries on the verge of nuclear power were either allies or wanted to be. Once again, the model on which she was an expert did not apply.

And, nothing in that expertise would have prepared her for a new set of assymetric threats from Islamist extremism. Her appointment is the reason i believe the outgoing Clintonites when they say they warned them about al Qaeda and were ignored. The personnel decisions they made prove they had no concern about terrorism.
The Professor

[mcar]

45. No

If you saw her testimony before the 9/11 commission, you wouldn't even have to ask. It was all "it's not my job." Total incompetence.

[barb162]

47. yes in the sense

that she can more articulately expound on what Bush wants. And they are completely on the same wavelength. Not that I agree with ONE damn thing they are doing. I don't think she is good at all as NS adviser... she seems to have no grasp at all of what her job is about or what she should be doing.

[tom_paine]

52. No. Perhaps the most cyncial affrimative action hire since

Clarence "Is that a pubic hair on my coke can?" Thomas.

Thurgood Marshall, Martin Luther King and Malcom X must be spinning quite rapidly in their graves right now.

[leftofthedial]

54. not even remotely

she might have made a reasonable assistant undersecretary-type person during the Reagan administration. Since then, her sole area of academic expertise is outdated.

Totally clueless bimbo-with-a-brain, in way over her head.

As useless in today's national security world as tits on a warthog.

[Skittles]

59. no

and she is WAY overrated

[goodhue]

62. It's her performance that is lacking not her qualifications.

eom

[Zan_of_Texas]

68. Condi is not dumb. However.....

I have also heard about her unsatisfactory performance as a university president.

She was schooled in a right wing think tank.

Some say (not all) that even in her Soviet specialty, she was taken by surprise by the break-up of the Soviet Union -- as were many around her. Why reward her with a high position in a subsequent administration?

Dubya has said he doesn't have to read the papers -- Condi will tell him everything he needs to know.

I think the NSA position gives her unique access to the president, and her presence is unquestioned, anywhere, anytime. She spends many a holiday with the president.

Perfect cover for an affair, if that is what's going on. If not, I think she is his babysitter -- keeps him out of the way of the real action.

Best thing about Rice -- she is not much of a liar -- that first time I saw her quaver about "no one could imagine someone using airplanes as missiles" I knew she was not hired for her ability to lie!

Well, actually, the best thing about Rice is that she has a dynamite second cousin, Connie Rice, a brilliant civil rights lawyer and peace and justice activist in LA.

[Green Lantern]

67. Kindasleazy

was not emplaced to be a classic NSA-she was put there to keep Bushwa out of trouble and to advance the neocons policies.

Guess she failed all the way around.

No more bushwa

[leesa]

69. Her job was to score massive profits for the oil industry and Chevron in

particular. I'd say she was immensely qualified...and successful!

[spanone]

75. Appointed by a man unqualified for the job he has.

[Karenina]

78. Who just appointed

an UNQUALIFIED, by his own admission, "intelligence czar." :eyes:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/goss.php

[Bo]

79. Just a Token

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

80. What has she actually DONE aside from pimp shrub's malevolent foreign

policy on "Face the Nation/Meet the Press" type shows?

[TankLV]

81. Absolutely not. Then again, NO ONE in this misadministration is.

Starting at the top.

Legacy spot.

If the name wasn't "bush", we would not even be discussing this.

[Moderator]

83. Locking

There has been a misunderstanding as to the intent of the thread. The author is welcome to re-post.