Reaching Out to the Freepers -- I'm Going In.

[IdaBriggs]

I just signed up to the www.freerepublic.com board. I'm definitely reaching out, and I hope for some good responses, but I'm so nervous! This is what I posted:

Hello. I am hoping you can help me.

I am trying to "reach out" to your side of the world in an effort to help each side understand the other. I apologize in advance if I offend or upset any of you, because that is NOT my intention. I hope by putting my "real name" on this post, you will view what I am about to say in the sincere way I mean it.

I am somewhat frightened of you.

Again, I apologize if I am offending, but I thought you should know about it. I also know I am not alone in my feelings about you because I have talked with other people who feel the same way. We think you are trying to impose your religion and way of life on the rest of us.

I know most of you are good people. You are kind and generous with your friends, family and neighbors. You help strangers change tires, work as teachers, risk your lives in the service of others -- all things everyone admires, respects and honors. Those of us on "the other side" do the same thing.

But sometimes you talk in painful ways about “evil” as if to associate us with "demons" and "satan" because we don't agree with your path. That is very hurtful, and it makes us feel like you don't really see us as fellow human beings with different understandings of God.
I am a gardener by hobby, and not always a very good one. My husband likes to tease me about "killing plants" instead of growing them because sometimes I over water or put too much fertilizer on them, yet every year I keep trying, and gradually, my garden is starting to become beautiful. I love roses in particular, and am reminded every day how wonderful God is because He made so many different kinds – I have three different red roses alone, and each one is perfect! I have seven different colors of Petunias, and use them to explain how God loves people of all colors to my neighbor's children. I guess that is why I believe you, who scare me so, really do have love in your hearts for all of us, even though sometimes it doesn't seem that way.

The worst times are when the topics of Abortion and Gay Sex come up. No one would ever force you to have an Abortion or indulge in Gay Sex in America EVER, yet you persist in making these topics of conversation as if they trump all other considerations. The only way I can reconcile this with a rational viewpoint is if I think you believe you are trying to SAVE those who don't believe the way you do from Hell. This seems to be a very loving action on your part, but feels rude and controlling in a not-positive way to the rest of us. Many of us do not believe these things will result in eternal damnation, but are simply part of God’s plan for each individual.

If you are truly horrified by the thought of these things, I don’t know what to say to make it easier for you to understand, but I will still try. I guess it would be like making everyone not wear jewelry or make up because some churches believe adornment is demonstrating vanity; it may end up being something we are all judged by, but it may also simply be a misreading or misinterpretation of the text. I am not saying your adherence to the tenets of your faith is wrong; I am saying other people have a right to love God in their own ways, and our civil laws should not be about defining “sin” but crime.

I say again, I am not meaning to offend. I have a very strong faith in God, and trust him to do the right thing. I don't like hearing people say that God is judging all of America based on who is President; both men have qualities worthy of admiration at some level, and both are interviewing for the job of enforcing our constitution. It demands we keep church and state as separate institutions so that we don't have wars in this country over religion (like they do in Ireland with Catholics and Protestants or in Iraq with Sunni's and Shiites). It demands I respect your right NOT to have an abortion if you don't want one, and NOT to indulge in gay sex if you don't want to, and to follow the teachings of your faith in the way you best understand them. It demands we all work "for the common defense, promote the general welfare and ensure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity" and on behalf of that, I am reaching out to you to find out how we can frame the debates on these things without heaping scorn and shame upon each other. No matter what the results of the November 2, 2004, election, I personally want all Americans to be proud of our country, and the way we run it.

I know I am already.

In Humble Sincerity,
Ida M. Briggs

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Good luck...

But I fear that this is a classic example of throwing pearls before swine.

[Maestro]

2. Good luck

I wouldn't expect much though. There may be few reasonable ones but Freep Rethuglica is not the place I fear. But kudos for trying.

[Jo March]

3. What a brave, thoughtful and intelligent post

Let us all know what you get back from there.

You are braver than I am. I would never post there and leave my real name. Some of those people scare me. I mean, they really scare me.

[Fovea]

4. Somebody stand by

with the fire blankets.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

5. Oh, you're gonna get eaten alive...

Terrorist scum only understand force.

[Carni]

6. I admire your effort but I hope that isn't your real name!

Trust me...you aren't going to sway anyone over at freakrepublic.

Be very careful about sharing your real name or info there!

[arbusto_baboso]

7. Brace yourself for some ugly backlash....

I can already tell you some of the epithets that will be hurled your way, but will refrain from mentioning any here.

I hope you're well and truly prepared for this. Don't take it personally, though; it's just how they are.

[Bertha Venation]

8. I admire your intentions.

Unfortunately, you will probably be banned before day's end. At FR they ban "us" as quickly as we ban "them." DU bans users who are clearly disruptors very quickly. At FR, you'd be seen as the equivalent of a disruptor.

Intentions, no matter how noble, are never considered. I'd like to think there is maybe one regular at FR who does not LIVE to heap scorn upon us godless, shameful liberals, but I'm not optimistic.

Good luck. Please let me know if you are able to prove me wrong.

[Maddy McCall]

40. Wonder when the influx of Freep trolls will begin at DU...

I hope this doesn't result in lots of disruption at DU. I bet they will play tit for tat, though.

[Bertha Venation]

52. I imagine it will begin, oh, about November 3.... :D

I have no doubt they'll flood over here soon. The closer we get to election day. Then the day after, when Kerry has won, look out.

[Maddy McCall]

54. November 3rd I won't be here to welcome them...

I'm going to be in bed nursing a hangover that will result from hours of celebration on the evening of November 2. :evilgrin:

[janx]

61. I'm going to be partying with the evil Old Europeans!

I'll be heading back to the U.S. from a conference in Madrid...!

[calimary]

135. Me too. What a GORGEOUS letter. Truly lovely.

The sentiments are genuine and heartfelt, the beliefs beautifully explained. This is CLEARLY an honest attempt to reach out, and try to find some middle ground.

I am not optimistic for you, but I applaud your efforts. Frankly, we're all probably going to have to try this in one way or other, to try, somehow, someday, to bring our fractured, polarized country back to some semblance of unity. It's just grown more and more awful, angry, and divided.

They are taught to, and encouraged to, demonize us - probably mainly as "baby killers." In that, I suspect they feel as uncompromising as someone like myself does (in that, in this issue, I find NO room for negotiation - the right to choose, for me, is ABSOLUTE, and completely non-negotiable). However, I don't feel like they reek of Satan because they don't agree! And I don't go around tirading at them and trying to shoot their practitioners because they disagree, either. They don't seem willing to extend the same courtesy to those who feel as I do about this issue. And this IS just ONE issue out of MANY that divide us as a country.

You are courageous and wonderful to be trying to extend an olive branch. You should work at the UN. After all, as long as you're invoking God, then God's own kid said "Blessed are the Peacemakers." And that would be YOU.

I don't have the stomach for it, at the moment, because I'm gearing myself more for combat - and the beating of a bully by hitting back - HARD. But we need efforts like yours VERY much! And I'm sure I will be among those who do come around to your tactics.

I wish you the greatest of luck. It always takes one stalwart soul to step forward with empty hands and open arms - AND an open mind. I hope your efforts don't fall on deaf ears, and that people over there pour derision and anger and shit on you for trying to reach out so sweetly and generously like this. I wish that the responses to you will match your own presentation, although I won't hold my breath. Perhaps, however, one of them over there feels - and will react - like you have. Maybe you'll reach someone, touching them in their heart, and it won't be so frozen over that it can't be warmed at least a little.

This is a noble effort. I hope it's met with equally noble reactions. Because, truly, we CANNOT go on like this as a country - not for much longer anyway.

MANY blessings. I am eager to hear how you fared.

[madrchsod]

9. you`ll be banned

this afternoon..

[Cerridwen]

10. Huzzah! Yay! Well done! You rock!

I don't speak anything but English or I'd add more international sentiments.

:yourock:

[Worst Username Ever]

11. Its not even worth it

but please post a link when you post it, I am going to get a kick out of this.

[Democracy Died 2004]

12. Oh no no no no don't do it!!!

These people are to be hunted and exposed and humiliated.. This is a mistake.
Jesus get out your joust and go after some windmills, at least that would make more sense.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Can you link directly to the thread?

I'd like to see the response

[janx]

15. Here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1190969/posts

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. I'm scared by this post:

To: IdaBriggs
I am afraid of gays because they don't reproduce and have their eyes on my son. They want to come to my sons school and tell him how normal and fun it is to be gay. They want to entice him into an abomination.

That's evil in my book.



15 posted on 08/13/2004 9:51:54 AM PDT by katnip
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies >

I dunno if that's sarcastic or what, but it sounds pretty real and scares the shit out of me. This person actually think gay people are looking to convert everyone? Good god, what a dope!

[janx]

41. There are people who don't know any better who actually believe

that.

You and I may not have been raised that way, but some people are. It's terrible.

Hellfire and damnation, man!

[wyethwire]

67. Freeper thread has been pulled

that didn't last long

[grasswire]

25. I'm sure....

....they already know you're a DU-er and have read this thread. That won't help you survive over there. Nice try, though. A few of them might have tried to convert you.

[Viking12]

72. It's been pulled and they link back to this thread..

:)

[janx]

83. "link back to this thread" ?

What do you mean?

[NightTrain]

140. They did? Well, in that case....

HEY, FREEPERS:

[qwlauren35]

77. I guess it didn't take long.

They've pulled it.

Not sure why. It was a very good thread... pretty much everyone was being civil.

Sad.

[Cleita]

137. Maybe that was the problem.

Everyone was being civil.

[NightTrain]

139. Got about 1/3 of the way through the thread; stopped when I read this:

"I am afraid of gays because they don't reproduce and have their eyes on my son. They want to come to my sons school and tell him how normal and fun it is to be gay. They want to entice him into an abomination.

"That's evil in my book."

[janx]

14. Have you been kicked out yet? That's the standard MO

in freeperland for posts by Democrats or even independents who vote that way.

[tom_paine]

16. Expect some very ugly comments followed by banning

Let us know how it really turns out so that we may cailbrate our cynicism meter.

[AntiCoup2K4]

17. Rim Job would ban Jesus Christ as a disruptor!

Oh wait a minute.... He got banned here too, now that I think about it :(

[Jackpine Radical]

120. Nah. That wasn't Jesus.

It was Dennis Kucinich.

[LTR]

130. No, Jesus Christ DID get banned here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=106088

Funniest. Thread. Ever.

[Dem2theMax]

159. Wow.

Thanks for putting that link here. I'm new to DU. Never would have seen the thread otherwise. It's 3:15am Sat. on the West coast. I kept telling myself to log off and go to bed. But somehow I ended up here. And I'm so glad I did. That thread touched my funny bone, my heart, my mind and my soul. I laughed. I cried. I can't think of the last time I was so touched by something. I kept thinking that if Jesus really did end up on DU, this is probably just how He would sound. Crazy? Maybe. But I'm smiling as I write this and everyone on that thread was wonderful. I've bookmarked it. Whenever I get down about people or the world, I'm gonna go read it again. And again. And probably again. Because this world does that to us frequently. Get us down that is. The thread on the other hand, dare I say it was as spiritually uplifting as it was funny... :)

And for those on the thread who had the presence of mind to say 'thanks' to Jesus, I want to add mine. Thank you Jesus. Perfect timing, as always.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ron Green]

18. I think you've written a good message

and that reasonable people will see it as that. One problem is that many (most?) freepers are NOT reasonable outside the limited context of their family/clan/neighborhood. They think the Big Picture is our national security and "way of life," while you have eloquently painted it as something much larger. The larger picture, which requires diplomacy and thoughtfulness and collaboration, scares these people and makes them think in terms of Enemies.

I'll bet that the few freepers who hear and understand your message will not be strong enough to respond in kind, because the fear on their board is overwhelming. However, I also believe that you are healing the world, because you've healed yourself - and you ARE the world. Good luck with your foray into darkness! :)

[Carni]

30. Reasonable people? At freerepublic?

Nope ain't happening! lol

[MISSDem]

90. Good post and

welcome to DU.

[NightTrain]

141. You spelled "clan" with a C. In the case of FR, you spell it with a "K."

:evilgrin:

[gauguin57]

19. Well, I admire your spunk, but I'd advise ...

... don't waste your breath on those people. Their minds are closed; and your blood pressure doesn't need their responses.

I read their responses to your post. Oh brother. Typical.

They merely want to be left to wallow in their own psychoses, and their own insensitivity, bigotry and evil.

[GiovanniC]

20. This Says It All About Freepers

Um, don't know you, don't give a whit about your soul.

That unborn kid's life, however, is something I'd like to save.


Until you're born, they give a whit about you. Then, go fuck yourself.

[janx]

21. Ida, this is very sweet of you, but I'm afraid they will kick you

out anyway. They always kick people out no matter how good the intentions.

[Tsiyu]

22. They Don't Read or Write Very well over there

so don't expect many of them to get past your first sentence. They can spell most curse words and insults real well, though, so you'll get a freeper edumication on how to demonize someone in two syllables or less.

And posting your real name? These freaks are violent, unstable people who "Kill for jayzuss." If you live through the week without a death threat I'll be amazed.

[Vickers]

23. " I am afraid of gays because they don't reproduce and have their eyes..."

"... on my son."

Aw man, I have to start reading more over there...it's hilarious! There's also a guy on there that seems like he wants to eat the eggs of bald eagles???

[Worst Username Ever]

27. I was just going to post that!

I had it copied and ready to paste. Nice!

[gauguin57]

28. I was just about to post that post.

"I am afraid of gays because they don't reproduce and have their eyes on my son. They want to come to my sons school and tell him how normal and fun it is to be gay. They want to entice him into an abomination. That's evil in my book."

It WOULD be hilarious, except that they're SERIOUS. And they're friggin' DANGEROUS.

Save your breath for moderates and undecided voters.

[AntiCoup2K4]

48. How about an "Endangered Species Omelette"? YEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAW!!

Bald Eagle Eggs with Spotted Owl Sausage all around...

/freep dumbass mode

[Worst Username Ever]

26. lookit lookit lookit!

"If most gays weren't so promiscous, I'd have less of a problem with them. However, they are still the primary vector for the spread of AIDS in this country - and they insist on getting in our faces and demanding we accept this. I don't."

ufda!

[wicket]

29. Ask them if they think abortion is ok if the mother's life is in danger

[janx]

31. I tried something similar a couple of years ago and was

banned in no time.

I hope you fare better! ;-)

[madmax]

32. Very moving post.

:hug:

[ElementaryPenguin]

33. Very brave, and very smart move.

In the long run we have to live with these people. Extending an olive branch, appealing to our common humanity...always a very noble, move - even when it isn't likely to succeed. Whatever the outcome, thank you for trying. I once had a gun held to my head by a gangbanger high on crack. He must have told me twenty times he was going to shoot me right here - "I'll kill you right now." Amazingly, considering the circumstances, I stayed calm and made it clear (without saying it) that I wasn't passing any judgement on the fact that he was robbing me (this was at an ATM) and implied that I might be doing the same thing if I was in his shoes - and that I understood... The point was I was really nice to him - hoping I could appeal to whatever humanity was in him - and I think as a result he let me go. I just reasoned that he would be less likely to kill a person who he actually liked - who was nice to him. I know it doesn't always work that way - but common sense tells me that your odds are at least somewhat improved. (Indeed, there was no one there for me to consult - I just had to go with my gut.) I'm glad you're going with yours. Don't be discouraged no matter the outcome.

[onehandle]

34. Oh, good. A thread that Freepers will be reading.

Freeps, Imagine it's the morning of November 3rd.

ahem...

Bush Lost! Hahahahahahah! Nyah! Nhah! Nyah! Losers!!

ha!

You know Bush has lost already....Right? If not, you are kidding yourselves.

The are more Democrats in the US than Republicans. When Democrats get to the polls, Republicans lose. Look at the turnout for the Democratic primaries.

You're toast.

[tandot]

35. Freepers can NOT see through their hate

There is no sense in reasoning with most of them.

Abortion is their number one topic. They don't care if we killed thousands of innocent Iraqi babies. They are just rag-heads to them.

They don't even know that embryonic stem cell research is using cells that would end up in the trash anyway. There are many created by in-vitro fertilization (petri-dish), and those many cells (or embryos) that are not implanted into the mother's womb, will be destroyed or thrown away anyway. Freepers say that abortion is wrong but they don't object to in-vitro fertilizations, which essentially lead to the "abortion" of thousands of cells (embryos).

And they feel that gays are out to get their children. As if they send out some secret vibes to convert and recruit them.

Most of them are not educated on the issues. They re-hash what Rush and other right-wing extremist are saying, without doing their own research.

I am sorry for what you about to experience over there.

[Zookeeper]

149. Freepers care less about the suffering of children...

than the "life" of a cluster of cells.

My daughter was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes eight years ago at the age of four. Between injecting insulin and pricking her finger to draw blood to do tests, she has had about 25,000 encounters with a needle since she was diagnosed. At the age of four, she was so tiny that it was hard to even pinch up enough skin to give her a less painful injection.

And every year that goes by without a cure is another year of long-term damage done to her heart, kidneys, and eyes.

Hey, Freepers! Would you like to explain to my child why she doesn't deserve an opportunity to live without this chronic disease?

Nevermind. I believe most of you are cold, mean and deluded enough to think you could.

I'm really not as bitter as I sound, but I just hate the hypocrisy of these "righteous christians."

[Ron Green]

36. OUCH, I just took a look at the responses......

those people are f***ed up; even the ones who pretend to a civil dicourse are smug and self-righteous. Maybe there is something to this "us vs. them" mentality. I just feel myself hating them when I read the mindlessness of these people.

[IdaBriggs]

37. UPDATE -- PLEASE DON'T MOCK THEM!!!

I don't want them mocking DU and I am not trying to mock them. Please don't disrespect them in this thread. But thank all of you for your support.

[lukasahero]

49. This will probably get me slayed but...

I give you credit for doing this and, while I largely don't agree with their positions, I'm surprised by some of the more reasonable responses you are getting (and a bit bemused by the not so reasonable ones). Radical notion that it is, I think there may be some reasonable people with valid points of view on both sides of the aisle. Perhaps it's time we learn to discuss things instead of yelling insults at each other. Good luck in your efforts to begin that process.

[Worst Username Ever]

38. Wow, they certainly got one thing right:

"You see, liberals think most people are stupid and the government should run things - thus all their laughable "socially conscious" laws. "

Yep, most people are indeed stupid.

[janx]

39. Here come the fun and bloody pictures...

...

[Worst Username Ever]

42. IDA:

They are focusing on their argument against abortion, they feel it is murder, and that the fetus in a human being, even in the first trimester. That picture they posted is of a third trimester baby, which is already illegal. What you need to focus on in your argument is that it is about the goverment putting their hands on a woman's body and prohibiting her from making a decision about what goes on in her body.

[Maddy McCall]

46. Since 99.9% of freeps are misogynists...

I doubt this argument would matter to them. Even the women there are misogynistic.

[Maddy McCall]

43. LOL! Nurturing prevents reproduction.

Beware! If you nurture people, then they won't be able to reproduce:


You seem cool, but damn...Most of those freaks over there need to be put to sleep, or at least nurtured so they don't reproduce!!

[tblue37]

155. I assume he meant "neutered"--

but then again, Bush thinks "nucular" is a word, so maybe that set of phonemes is particualrly troubling to Republicans.

[MISSDem]

44. Good luck. I got blocked from posting at Lucianne

for saying the truth.

[DemWitch]

45. Don't foget to shower when your done...

[Walt Starr]

47. You'll be zotted within seconds, IKO

Why bother?

:shrug:

[Bandit]

50. Good luck on your venture but these people don't do "Sensitive"

You are showing weakness and for that you will be crucified.

[Brewman_Jax]

51. Very brave

but in vain. These are the same ones who think Bush* is some sort of messiah, anyone left of Stalin is a flaming liberal, and anyone darker than Paris Hilton should be locked up 'cause they're all druggies who are intelligent enough only for menial labor, or running/catching a ball 'cause "they run real fast."

I suspect you'll be banned before sunset--if you haven't been banned already.

[DFLer4edu]

53. Random question: Any relation to the Briggs of Myers-Briggs?

[janx]

55. "You have a females understanding of God and Politics."

"God's plan is to throw adulterers, liars, homosexuals, thieves and all sin into the lake of fire. Because you don't want to believe that doesn't mean it won't happen."


I would have no problem with these comments if I didn't know that some people want to make this kind of thing a part of government. I wouldn't walk into somebody's church and make fun of what people said. But this is a political web site, and this kind of thing has gotten so much worse over the years. It's staggering.

Yet there are some libertarian types in freeperland who are interesting to read and who are by no means ignorant. I've conversed with a couple of them. (Though at least one of them is banned...)

[tandot]

59. liars and thieves are thrown "into the lake of fire"? Does Bush know about

that?

That essentially means that the "lake of fire" is full of Republicans.

[DFLer4edu]

56. You shouldn't have brought up abortion

because they don't see it as an issue of pluralism. That is all they are going to focus on now and ignore the very idea which you are trying to put forth, pluralism. If you think abortion is murder, than it is not an issue of pluralism. If you want to actually have a discussion, abortion is the 3rd rail.

[kentuck]

57. Let me know when you got more posts there than here....

:)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. Now they're trying to be nice because they know we're looking.....

lol!

[janx]

60. Yep...nice, and self-righteous, too.

That won't change the fact that they kicked me out when I tried to be kind. Only nobody was looking then...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

62. Apparently - they're going to "adopt" you as their "token" liberal

LOL!

"Why should MurryMom be the only token liberal nut on FR?"

[janx]

63. That one WAS funny.

Really funny! And it was intended to be, from the way I read it. Was that GraniteStateConservative?

He can be funny.

[Cats Against Frist]

64. They're so GOD DAMN constructed!!!!!!!

It's not that they don't make good arguments, and I do believe some of them are good, people, as some of us are good people and bad people. But they are completely unable to step outside of their own constructions.

There are claims like "life begins at conception. Period." How can someone rationally make this claim? Since our courts are not supposed to take souls or God into account -- every other measure is arbitrary. They're just attaching SYMBOLISM to conception. I'm not even saying they're WRONG. I'm saying that outside of a religious argument they're either as "right" or "wrong," as anyone else.

Same with state-sanctioned marriages. I've yet to see any of them argue that the state shouldn't sanction any marriage, which would be a libertarian viewpoint. Filial structures have ranged from tribes, matrilineal societies, polygamy, polyandry, extended families, etc. The rise of the "individual family home" is a CONSTRUCT, that was INVENTED. Just as the concept of romantic love is a CONSTRUCT.

That's why I, personally, will never be able to argue with these people, because they argue everything on a micro level, with certain "assumptions" (usually based on tradition or religion) which they believe to be absolute truth, which is just hokey.

And their seemingly "kind" debate is still sprinkled with NAMBLA and "commies" and all the other divisive bullshit that springs up in this debate. How can they not see that that shit is absurd?

After reading their replies, I'm convinced that I'M more conservative/libertarian than they are. They are completely enamored with cultural constructs and cultural supremacism -- and it seems to me that their own "social engineering" is no less totalitarian or civil-liberties stripping than they've ever dreamed that the "the left of the left," would do.

The GOP doesn't have anything to do with liberties or freedom. Militarization, pre-emptive war, state-sanctioned marriage, the police state, cultural supremacy, foreign policy and intelligence as corporate arms, the police state, consentual "crime," -- all that is BIG GOVERNMENT -- and it violates the tenets of classical liberalism, which they feel they have some kind of claim on.

Most of them have just been manipulated by their fears by their corporate masters. What this party fights for is freedom to consume, and to uphold the conditions by which that consumption can run rampant, by creating a culture war -- little else. Little else.

[Blue-Jay]

65. I'm going to say it.

There's appears to be a few posters over there who I could have a conversation with. A vast minority, but a few nevertheless. The rest of them give me the heebie-jeebies.

To the lurking Freepers who are being polite and engaging Ida in conversation, Kudos!

To the ones just lobbing insults, Feh.

EDIT: NEVERMIND. They pulled it the thread.

Nice try Ida.

[lukasahero]

68. They pulled it...?

Great - I was finding the discussion interesting. Thought maybe, just maybe there could be honest, polite discourse finally. Sorry Ida, thanks for trying.

[qwlauren35]

66. To be effective

you have to continue the conversation. I think they have made a lot of VERY good points about where they stand.

Many of them view abortion as murder and you probably do not. It's going to be VERY hard to find common ground on that one.

Their views on gays are apparently all over the map. I find this interesting...

They make some VERY interesting statements about DU'ers and Democrats in general. Some of them probably CANNOT be refuted. We democrats occasionally throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to civil liberties vs. "Christian morality". And there are definitely some RABID liberal/progressives here in DU who get vicious and profane when their points of view are not agreed with.

Also perhaps we shouldn't necessarily have it both ways when it comes to what does and what doesn't get funded. I can understand why they would be incensed that the government would fund abortions, or force employees to perform them. (They have no practical alternative on the funding issue, but that doesn't stop them from being morally indignant.)

And it is probably absolute hell for them to put their children in a school that makes a mockery of their beliefs about homosexuality, teaching children that it's "normal". (One would think that they would have the same argument about Darwinism over Creationism.) The things I've read about the lengths that some schools go to in order to get this message across is a bit aggressive. I think it would be better to state the two positions and let children form their own opinions on this one.

I sincerely hope that you will attempt to continue the dialogue, and see what comes of it. And IF you find that YOU have a greater understanding of THEM, please let us know.

I certainly did after reading their responses; they aren't all as HORRIBLE as DU folks make them sound. I'm convinced that the abortion issue can't be resolved if people can't agree on whether it's murder. But I see some hope on the gay issues. I think Republicans ARE more diverse on this issue than the Party would have one believe.

[IdaBriggs]

69. LAST UPDATE -- Pulled. :(

I was replying to them as fast as I could, but apparently I was a disruption. I know that at least 110 people saw my post, because they replied to it. Some of what people seemed sensible, and I would have liked to have conversed more with them. The real issues are indeed Abortion and Gay Sex. I'm kind of tired, so I'm going to be taking a break for a bit. Thank you, all of you.

[lukasahero]

73. Did you get banned?

Just curious.

PS - you did GREAT!

[Terran]

75. Just curious--did they ban you? n/t

[rangerfan]

91. It's still up. I just checked it.

[noiretextatique]

96. two issues that are none of their business

and have ZERO impact on them. nice try, IdaBriggs, but please reread my post from your thread yesterday. i've posted it below.

it's authorianism masked as (what you call) "love." 40% of the population are control freaks...and we ARE all in serious trouble.
i do not think they CARE about everyone's interest, but rather seek to impose their version of what's best for THEM on the rest of us, because they believe what's good for THEM is good for everyone .

ARROGANCE AND DELUSION is the chief problem with this view, though fear and ignorance are integral components of the mindset.

the solution is much more complex than the diagnosis. however, their arrogance and delusion seems to do more to bring people into the light than anything else.

[ToadOracle]

70. I don't wonder through here often

Nor through FR often, Ida, you put together a good thread. I happen to be one of the people you sent a private message to over there.

I in no way represent the "consensus of FR", not that there is one. But if someone wants to through any questions out to continue, fire away.

[Droopy]

74. Welcome to DU, ToadOracle

Hang around, maybe you'll find you have more in common with us than you thought.

[ToadOracle]

81. Thanks, I'll be around

I come from an incredibly liberal family, going back many generations to the Second International. the Dem party here abandoned me it's gone so far left, and is so very corrupt, (hey it's New Jersey.)

You guys got a week, and I'll make a decision.

[Jo March]

86. Welcome to DU

We're glad to have you here.

I'm the opposite - I came from a very conservative family. I grew up in Alabama which is very conservative.

Anyhow, welcome to DU!

:bounce:

[kentuck]

87. It's not up to us....it's up to you....

We're not on anyone's timetable....

[Bandit]

102. Do you know what our National Debt is and what Republicans are doing

about it? It is going up at twenty thousand dollars a second. Are they talking about this at Frei republik? I didn't think so. Things that are really important to our society and our children and their future are never mentioned. Only wedge hateful issues. We need responsible leadership and we need it now. We need people who address the things that truly matter instead of things that divide and destroy America. We need talk about Health Care and Education and Jobs and American pride. Does it please you that our atheletes are getting booed at the Olympics? Does it matter to you that the world has formed an opinion of America in the last four years that is not very flattering. Does it bother you that the American dollar has been steadily losing ground since the Republicans took complete control of our government?

[IdaBriggs]

106. Thank you, ToadOracle.

I appreciate you doing this very much! Best, Ida

[janx]

78. Hi!

:hi:

[wicket]

79. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[janx]

80. I have a question:

What ever happened to OneParticularHarbour? Is he still banned at FR? (I don't know if you were around then, but you may have been.)

[ToadOracle]

85. OPH

Best I know, moved to www.libertypost.org after a falling out with FR's management team.

[janx]

94. I enjoyed his posts and agreed with him often. And there

was a gal, who had "cat" as part of her screen name...Catspaw! She was interesting.

And then JohnGalt--whom I by no means agreed with often...he was a good poster too, though. But these interesting posters often got drowned out by the more fanatical types.

[ToadOracle]

97. Same happens here

Anyone with the ability to write quality posts on the net, won't do so forever, life is too short. Because of the white noise on FR and other sites, many of those posters move onto smaller more discreet blogs. Comfort, civilty, whatever the reason.

Both are fine posters, both are still around I believe. Well i know the original JohnGalt is still around, seen him recently.

[qwlauren35]

82. Okay, I got questions...

1.) Which post was yours? (They've pulled the thread so I can't tell!)

2.) If you are pro-life, do you think that pro-lifers have a moral obligation to provide alternatives to abortion? Do you think that people who perform abortions, or people who have them, should do time or get the death penalty? And if abortion is murder, what is war? Is it possible to be pro-war AND pro-abortion?

3.) Is it possible that "gay" is a choice for some and not for others? Why is everyone so sure that it is or it isn't, and keep pulling out data that's so clearly mixed?

4.) If being gay "belongs in the bedroom", then doesn't ALL sexual imagery belong in the bedroom? And if so, why do we let sex kittens sell cars?

5.) And if you just don't want to know, wouldn't it be easier to just take the sex of the applicants off of the marriage license? That way no one would know who is gay and who is straight, because that stuff would stay in the bedroom...

BTW - most DU'ers think I'm so rabidly right wing that they ignore me. So, while the questions may sound ludicrous to you, they're just a way of opening a dialogue.

[ToadOracle]

89. You, that's a lot to start with

Well, guys over at FR, don't ban me please, I have 5 years worth of postings over there, including many original writings I haven't archived to a blog yet.

First, I'm a small l libertarian, have volunteered for various big L candidates.

FR nick: $#JerseyHighlander#$

Marginally pro-life, if gov. funding was eliminated, I wouldn't care much either way. I'd never accept an abortion of my child, and could care less if others kill theirs if I don't have to know about it or pay for it.

Gay issues, I could care less, keep it out of schools, and i do believe it's a choice. My esteemed governor has proven so.

That forth question is ludicrous, who are you, an Ayotollah?

That 5th is ludicrous also, I think I understand why people ignore you now. Marriage is a sacred bond, with the ability to have children. Look, in NJ, a gay couple can now get family or employee plus 1 health insurance, while a girlfriend/boyfriend can't. That's special NOT equal rights. Those demands, (no wonder McGreevey backed them) that are now law, are creating larger resentment. Why should anyone change anything, for a group that won't produce offspring.

[MARALE]

103. I agree on many things

I don't agree with abortion, but don't think a mother's life should be put at risk, or in the case of rape and other considerations. I am religious, yet think people can follow any religion that they want and I don't want other religious ideas dumped on me. I think the conservatives spend too much money on corporations and cold war defenses and not enough on education. (Our school is really cutting corners and getting rid of teachers) I am very environmental, Rush says God gave us this land and would not let us ruin it. This is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time. We are responsible and Democrats seem to consider the world more than just money and how much we can spend. Hope you choose DU, it is very addicting.

Marale

[calimary]

142. Welcome, MARALE!

Yes. You and I already agree on something major here, all philosophies aside. DU is VERY addicting.

[lukasahero]

84. Welcome

I don't really have any specific questions for you but I did want to say thank you (as I did Ida) for trying to "reach across the divide".

I hope you'll feel comfortable to participate in other threads because I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[calimary]

138. HEY! Welcome! Glad you're here - we all DO need to talk.

Ida just performed a Magnificent Public Service. I wish I were that stalwart. I'm sorry to be reading here that her thread over there has already been banned - but more than 100 people responded? THIS is a good thing. I didn't try looking in over there, kinda hard for me to stomach, but I gather, second-hand, that at least some of the responses were human-being-type, rather than just hellfire and damnation and closed minds. THAT'S where we need to start, as Americans. I wish we weren't so divided. It's just not good for EITHER side. And it'll sink us all in the long run.

I am prepared to fight, fight hard, and fight dirty if need be. It seems as though many over there, and many who share those views wish only evil upon me, so it's awfully hard to respond peacefully. It doesn't work on bullies, either. But frankly, I'd rather use olive branches.

[KayLaw]

71. So odd

The fear of homosexuality. Some posts reminded me of the Ellen episode where you got a free toaster for bringing people out. Also, the comment that gays wouldn't be so bad if they weren't promiscuous. Okay, so why discourage gay marriage?

[janx]

76. "By the way, did Dem_Strategist put you up to this?"

Another funny one. Somebody was lurking over here and saw all of the Dem_Strategist posts...

[Electile Dysfunction]

88. It's still up for me...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1190969/posts

Surprisingly, some of them are not being Freeptarded.

[lukasahero]

93. I think you mean "Back up"

because it was most definitely taken down. It even linked back to this thread...

Unfortunately I think Ida is taking a "break" so I doubt she'll be futhering the discussion.

[Carni]

98. Those are probably just DU moles pretending to be freepers ;)

Not that I would know anything about that mind you...

[greekspeak]

92. "Compassionate conservative" typical response

This is my favorite:

"I have nothing against people who engage in homosexual activity; on the contrary, I have many friends who are gay and otherwise.

But it is not our place as a society, to codify and otherwise change the very socio-economic structure of marriage to suit the proclivities of gays"


Changed slightly to show the true colors.

"I have nothing against people who BLACK; on the contrary, I have many friends who are BLACK and otherwise.

But it is not our place as a society, to codify and otherwise change the very socio-economic structure of SOUTHERN SOCIETY to suit the proclivities of BLACKS"


(My slight changes in caps)

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

99. i know married straight people who don't even have sex

explain how their marriages are valid and "consummated"...please.
and exactly which "tyranny" is it that bigots will suffer if two men get married? or get health insurance together?
poor, put upon straight people...just like poor, put upon white people.
it's the tyranny of the majority that denied people of color full citzenship, and it's that tyranny that seeks to deny gays full citzenship.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

101. what nonsense

any idiot straight couple can get married...and get the full benefits of marriage...regardless of whether or not they are committed to each other in any meaningful. so...the status quo confers special rights and privleges on people who are heterosexual...the only people "allowed" to marry.
that includes my parents, who have been together for 55 years, and it includes Brittany Spears, who may marry after being with someone for 55 seconds.
that the majority accepts this special privilege doesn't change the fact that it is a special privlege, and you are correct that is discriminates against unmarried heterosexual couples also.
i'm all for civil unions...for everyone...and keeping religion out of issues like health insurance coverage, pension benefits, and so on.

[greekspeak]

105. Are you on CRACK?

You say,

"I don't see how governments and employers can validate a gay marriage, for cases of pensions, benefits and the like." Here's how, borrowing a slogan from Nike: JUST DO IT. In fact, I do not see how employers can justify having a double standard in which gay couples are disallowed pensions SIMPLY BECAUSE they are gay.


"Nor why a religous employer should have to give health benefits to a gay spouse because he has anal sex with an employee."

Clearly your teensie little mind has not a clue about this issue. Reducing the issue of benefits for homosexuals to "anal sex with an employee" goes beyond the pale of decency I have been with the same man in a loving relationship for EIGHT years. We have been through the trials and tribulations of life together, we love, we care about each other, we do ALL the same things that heterosexual couples do. Yet you have the fucking AUDACITY to reduce my eligibility for the benefits his company offers to being a reward for fucking each other up the ass. How dare you.

Finally your "tyranny of the minority" meme is an old Puke chestnut. My wingnut father uses it all the time. It is a plank in the RW platform to turn WASPs into victims. So take that tired old line back over to Freeperville County, whence it came. Hope you enjoyed your little foray into DU world. Let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. HARD.

[janx]

129. Wow.

And he started so politely...

[Skittles]

104. I don't know, Ida

you sound like a decent person but have you READ some of the garbage on that site? I don't think a lot of the people on FR *ARE* decent people. I think they are racist, homophobic narrow-minded assholes.

[IdaBriggs]

107. IDA UPDATE -- What I have learned so far....

The thread has been reposted, and I have made some private replies to the people over there. I had 125 responses in a very short time, most of which were reasonable answers, even if I didn't agree with them. I will need to go back over to give some answers so people don't think I'm blowing them off, but its going to take some time.

When it comes to Gay Sex, Rights and Marriage, there seems to be a bit of wide ranging opinions all the way from "abomination" to "just get over yourself." Many just plain don't want it to be viewed as "normal," and equate it with sexual dysfunctions similar to pedophilia. (My apologies, but this is not news, and not intended to hurt people by saying it.) I believe the courage homosexuals are using by "coming out of the closet" and showing they are "normal" is probably the best cure for this issue. No one advocated killing homosexuals in this life, but many expressed concern for their souls in the next. I am sorry my homosexual friends are not currently able to participate in all aspects of our society; even discussing it in public seems to be an achievement of which I hope they are justifiably proud.

The biggest deal breaker, however, is Abortion. Those who oppose it do so on moral and religious grounds, and consider it to be an issue on par with freeing the slaves. The view was expressed most eloquently by several people who said it was like murdering a fellow human being. Slaves were NOT considered human under the law, and one hundred fifty years later (give or take) we are all in agreement that HELLO! They are. The passion felt on this topic alone is the cause of much of the divide between us. Either pregnancy is a sacred state -- or its personal. If you believe its murder, then you can't condone abortion. If you think its nobody else's business except you and your physician, then its not murder, but medicine. I don't know how to resolve this issue.

Lastly, they are just as afraid of us as we are of them. They don't want "Liberals" telling them what to do with their lives, or their homes, or their schools. They have diverse points of view (just like the left does), and scream "TOLERATE US!" just as hard as the other side. They are afraid we don't value human life -- and the arguments sound close to the same on both sides with very little change in the rhetoric.

We had a death in the family this week, and I'm going to be spending time over the next day or two dealing with it, so let me apologize in advance for not keeping up with all of the posts on this thread. I will jump in as I find time.

Again, I thank all of you for your kindness and support. I was literally overwhelmed by the responses on both sides. I know it is easier to "flame" people we don't agree with (and I think they have the same issues on their board!), but I hope we can find a way to have a dialog about our differences.

Wait a minute! We already are! :)

Best Wishes,
Ida M. Briggs

P.S. A very brave person named ToadOracle came over to check us out. I hope you all treat him/her with the same level of courtesy I was shown. All things considered, I think they did a good job of being politely welcoming, and I very much appreciated it.

[noiretextatique]

108. you know...i doubt most of these folks would be in favor

of granting slaves full personhood (chief justice rhenquist, among others, shares this view) or "freeing the slaves" if they had that choice to make. many of them think MLK, for example, was a communist out to destroy the american way of life. as an experiment, perhaps your next thread should be about race. let's see how quickly those who use the slavery analogy for the unborn revert to their true colors. let's see how much "value" the place on certain human lives with skin colors different from their own (i know 99.9% of freepers are white).
i know you are really trying to create a dialogue, and i wish you luck.
and i hope your next thread there is about racism.

[kentuck]

109. The Toad had warts and we didn't want any of them....

He's gone.

[noiretextatique]

110. the toad slipped in thru the crack

opened by ida post, and got flushed down the :hurts:

[Carson]

111. Great job, Ida!

As a moderate Democrat and as a person who has quite a few Christian conservatives in the family, I applaud your civility.

I enjoy DU and read daily, but the "hate/kill fundies/conservatives" and the generalizations of masses of people never fail to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks for trying for an intelligent and civil debate.

[Zookeeper]

152. I've never seen anyone on DU....

say that Fundies or Conservative should be killed. However, EVERY thread I have read on Free Republic has included comments about killing Liberals.

Despite the Freepers odd complaints about frequent (?) foul language on DU, the Free Republic is so full of hate with so little actual intelligent thought that it is clearly the most obscene of the two forums.

They seem to think it's OK to threaten to kill people as long as you don't swear when you do it!

[Ron Green]

113. You've posed one of the really big questions...

..which is, "Is it possible to remain open-minded in a dialog with those whose very being seems anathema to us?" I DO believe that the right wing, along with their current administration, ownership of the media, and corporate control of most of the "mental environment," has an interest in keeping the people of this country (and this planet) divided against each other. Our lower selves, which respond to emotional and fearful stimuli, are so much more easily accessed than the higher self of reason and love. Thus was it always, I suspect, but now the electronic messaging systems have consolidated the control of the "dividers & conquerors" like never before. I want to love Bush and his ilk, but not really, don't you know? It just FEELS so much better to scorn and deride their sorry asses. I'm having a bit of a hard time holding on to my higher mind in these crazy and cynical times.

Congrats and thanks for the stuff you did today. This is what it's all about. :yourock:

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bandit]

114. Let's start with the National Debt

It is increasing by twenty thousand dollars a second. It was coming down just four years ago. Why would you consider voting for a person or a party that has no regard for fiscal responsibility. The current report from CBO that just came out said the tax cuts passed overwhelming went to the top two percent in the nation while the middle class actually had an increase in their taxes. This from the non-partison Congressional Budget Office that is recognized by both parties. Why do you support this fleecing of America?

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bandit]

117. Here is a link you may find interesting

http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html

Also here is a bit more on the CBO report:

The CBO study, due to be released today, found that the wealthiest 20 percent, whose incomes averaged $182,700 in 2001, saw their share of federal taxes drop from 64.4 percent of total tax payments in 2001 to 63.5 percent this year. The top 1 percent, earning $1.1 million, saw their share fall to 20.1 percent of the total, from 22.2 percent.

Over that same period, taxpayers with incomes from around $51,500 to around $75,600 saw their share of federal tax payments increase. Households earning around $75,600 saw their tax burden jump the most, from 18.7 percent of all taxes to 19.5 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A61178-2004Aug12?language=printer

[Bandit]

119. Okay here is another topic to discuss

What do you know of Bush*'s history before he was Governor of Texas? Do you know of his business Arbusto or his other business Harken Oil? What about those two businesses of his lend you to think he is a responsible Administrator? Do you feel Bush*'s National Guard service is something that should be investigated or even talked about. Like for instance why did he refuse to take a Required (as in Mandatory) Flight Physical. that is the same thing as disobeying a Direct Order.

[janx]

126. A lot of people didn't know about any of that, including some of

my friends/family who voted for Nader. They tell me now that had they known, they never would have taken the chance.

There was a thorough article in Harpers Magazine, outlining Bush's* biography when he was running for president. Anybody who read it (and Harper's enjoys a good reputation)found it hair-raising. More fiscal conservatives should have read that article. Bush* has ALWAYS been very bad with money.

[Ron Green]

121. Next, examine this "war" issue....

"I do think the current admin. over-spends but also think
that fiscal matters take a back seat during a time of
war."

If you accept that the war was chosen by President Bush and
his advisors, and resisited by many Americans and others, you
must accept that this "back-seating" of fiscal
policy is also his choice, despite obvious need in the other
direction.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

122. They tolerate you

because you are going to vote for bush.

End of story. You can say pretty much anything else, but if they know you are a bush supporter, you won't get tombstoned.

You say you are open to discussion but that we won't like your opinions, ideas, beliefs.

I bet you won't like mine, either.

So what's the point?

[TheRovingGourmet]

127. Someone with different views can be nice to hear from.

If it were not for the flame wars and intolerance caused by regional differences, this place would be a boring read with everyone just sitting around breating each other's exhaust.

[janx]

131. True.

I teach college undergraduates--writing and literature. I love to let them voice their opinions, as long as they do it in a civil manner. And I love it when they get wound up in a debate. Sometimes this starts to get political (in a contemporary sense), and I have to draw them back to the text or the craft. When it comes to talking about literature, there are no "talking points." It's uncharted territory for most of my students.

It's a lot more fun than politics.

Also, I love teaching these things because it shatters stereotypes, especially political ones.

[TheRovingGourmet]

148. You sound like a great teacher to have and I bet your

students love you. :)

And just for kicks, for a weekend assignment have them read the book Infinite Jest, by David Foster Wallace, and then be ready for discussion on Monday. They won't love you anymore but they will get exposed to some great writing. :)

[janx]

150. I am familiar with Infinite Jest...

It turns out to be a little more infinitely funny than I or any of my very diverse students can stand...but for infinite laughs, it's good. (Just a few too many infinite laughs.) It worked a couple of years ago, but now it's a bit of old news. And I love the Hamlet reference in the title of the book, but I just couldn't stand the infinite liners, if you know what I mean. I have recommended the book to students recently, in case they would like it, but it seems to have been sort of a thing of the past, already. I hope it keeps its place, even if I don't like it. It deserves a place, and it has one, at least for now.

Thanks for your post.

[janx]

151. Are you familiar with Food Chain?

It's not a large book, but it could be. And I know it better than ANYBODY can know it.

;-)

[TheRovingGourmet]

153. I have not read that book but will check it out soon.

Nicholson, right? The days are getting shorter now so I will be reading more.

I have read Infinite Jest several times and do find it to be a prediction of things to come. We have not sold the naming rights to the years yet but I am sure that that is coming soon. :)

Wallace writes much the same as I do in real life although I cannot generally get away with lines such as "the sun appeared to flutter as if poorly wired." :) I can never think of Canada without picturing giant Christmas light wrapped dumpsters full of garbage launched by catapult into Quebec.

The book is funny, but infinitely sad at the same time.

[LTR]

132. Well, you are being polite

But your sig has got to go.

You realize the whole "Al Gore invented the internet" thing was made up and spun like crazy by Karl Rove and his band of thieves, right?

The current administration makes Richard Nixon look like George Washington.

[janx]

136. "I invented the internet," etc.

Gore was proud that he contributed to the development of the Net though. Rightly so. And you're right--he never claimed to have invented it.

If anything, freepers should be thanking him. I mean, it wasn't as if he said: "This is great, and I'll do anything I can to promote the technology--except for my political opponents..."

No, he wanted it for everyone.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toots]

143. When and if you return

Please examine the graph. Notice how every Republican left the country farther in debt with the exception of Nixon and he broke even while the Democratic Presidents left the country much better off and in fact two of them left it with surplus. A little homework for you. Name a single Republican President since Hoover that did not have a recession during their term in office. Now for special credit name a single Democratic President that did.

[LibertyorDeath]

116. You realize it's a Suicide Run....

They are whacked beyond all reason & rationality.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

118. Wow

that's so amazingly cute of you.

My prediction is you'll be booted off toot-sweet, or maybe a few of them will think you are "soft" enough to convert you to their side (because you are nice).

Some people are too far gone to bother with, in my opinion, but good luck to ya.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

124. By the way, on the abortion issue

I don't get into it with people like that with regard to conception, etc.

What I ask them is "are you ok with the idea of forcing a woman to have a baby that she doesn't want and can't take care of?"

THAT is the $64 million question. Most "pro-life" (anti-choice) people have never adopted or fostered the unwanted children they demand should be born at any cost, no matter what.

Makes them big hypocrites in my eyes. I would never have an abortion myself (and never have), but my whole position is that I don't think we have any right to tell a woman she has to have a baby she cannot take care of and doesn't want.

[Zookeeper]

154. I think they are OK with the idea of forcing...

a woman to have a baby she can't take care of. Their response would be "x-number of nice, white, heterosexual couples are waiting to adopt healthy white infants."

My question: If the woman works at your typical, low-paying, service job (Wal-Mart) and doesn't have health benefits, how is she supposed to get the pre-natal care that would help her have a healthy baby? And if she can't pay for a hospital delivery, is she supposed to just give birth *wherever* and then hand the baby over?

What if the baby isn't going to be "white" or healthy? Will there be a home waiting? If there is, it will probably be with Liberals, not Freepers.

[Rowdyboy]

123. I admit to being shocked...They were far more civil than I expected

I congratulate you for doing a good job at representing your views and defending yourself. You have FAR more patience than I.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

125. except for all the freaky crap about

them being scared that homosexual men have their eyes on their sons and want to convert them and crap like that.

Ick. People really need to get a grip and realize homosexuality and pedophelia are two TOTALLY different things. That disgusts me that anyone even THINKS that about gay men. How insulting and stupid can you get?

[Logansquare]

146. I think there's some projection going on there

I mean, maybe mom or dad have their eyes on some teenagers.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

147. You REALLY gotta wonder about that level of paranoia

I agree.

I mean, unless someone is doing something overtly that gets my radar up as inappropriate, I do not ever imagine faceless masses out there just EYEING my child. Seems sad to live that way.

[amazona]

128. they are not good people

I'm sorry to say that the strongest motivator for being involved in wingnut politics is racism. Maybe if you only know your wingnuts through the internet you can kid yourself that they are well-intentioned, but get down in the dirt with these folks in real life and it just isn't so. One of my wingnut friends has finally gotten so bold as to put a Hitler bumper sticker on his car.

I am not kidding.

Your heart is in the right place but I respectfully submit that your time might be better spent elsewhere.

[janx]

134. You are subscribing to the "us versus them" mentality that is fed

to the right wing on a daily basis through talk radio, the internet, and Faux News. You are reacting to that.

I can lament ignorance, but I can't go as far as to subscribe/react to that kind of thinking; I just can't.

[Carni]

144. That is one of the stagiest theads I have ever seen on freerepublic

Sorry...I have to cut bait here.

I read that site frequently and I have NEVER seen a thread like that.

It's seems very suspect at best--JMO

I don't know who's playing who here but something doesn't pass the smell test.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

145. You know

as much as I hate to be the person saying "YEAH!" like a dork, um, yeah.

[not_sure]

156. THEY WANT TO KILL ALL OF US!

What many fail to realize is that the Islamic fundamentalists don't just want to kill Republicans for their capitalistic ways and foreign policy. They want to kill the Democrat and Liberal side of the house also, for their decadent lifestyles and support of immoral behavior(of course this is subjective, please don't debate on a point-for-point basis).

THEY WANT TO KILL ALL OF US! We are in this together. I read this board, and all hear is how much you fear the Republicans. I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! They want to kill everyone of us regardless of foreign policy, color, or sexual orientation. We are in this together.

[jayfish]

157. "Most of those freaks over there need to be put to sleep, "

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1190969/posts?q=1&&page=1

<SNIP>
You might have feared coming here, but my only fear is that America Hating, Freedom and Liberty Hating, Communists like you and your little friends ever get any real power.

You seem cool, but damn...Most of those freaks over there need to be put to sleep, or at least nurtured so they don't reproduce!! (Well...I guess I would settle for sending them to their beloved Cuba).


Ps....How many DUhhhers do you think will commit suicide on election night? I'm guessing at least 2. (And I'm serious here...That might be gruesome, but I do believe it will happen).
</SNIP>

Get it now slick? Kind of ironic to hear a pro-lifer advocate the euthanizing of 50,000 people. Not all of us are afraid though, not even of the terrists.

Jay

[thebigidea]

158. I can't imagine how it must be like to live under such delusions

oh well. They hate us for our freedoms!