Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If Bush issued a "DRAFT"....Would you go or would you dodge it?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 03:55 AM
Original message
If Bush issued a "DRAFT"....Would you go or would you dodge it?
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 03:59 AM by Tight_rope
My response is this:

At the risk of many saying that I'm not a patriot of the US or that I'm a chickenhawk, I still would stand on the same ground that I stood before the war. "I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THE WAR IN IRAQ" and I refuse to kill innocent people who have posed to imminent threat to me.

If Bush needed more soldiers to fight "HIS" war....let him send the twins. Their slogan can be "WE FIGHT FOR OUR DADDY"!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. He should encourage at least one of them to enter a military academy.
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 04:00 AM by oasis
One of the twins, that is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. I am 18, and if there is a draft again anytime soon...
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 03:59 AM by The Nation
I'M FLEEING NORTH!

'OOOOOOOOOH CAAAAAAAAAAANADAAAAAAAAAA...' :party:

I'M NOT DYING FOR BUSH'S LIES, FUCK THAT SHIT!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I won't work....
They have an agreement now, and neither will college. Find another strategy....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I can always tell them I am gay...
go down to the local draft office in high heels a mini-skirt and a wig and just whisper into their ears "heeeeey saaaaailor, reportin' 4 duty SIR"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. LMBAO...Work it...Own it...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. I've told my 17 year old son
that if * gets in again and there's a draft, he's gay. They don't have to ask, we'll tell!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Finbar Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Registered as a CO at age 18.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. I don't care....
....if someone calls me a "chickenhawk", "unpatriotic", or whatever. The point is: George Bush has no right to decide how my life is going to end. Its that simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oh hell no.
I refuse to kill anyone unless my family and countrymen are actually threatened. As far as I can tell, that hasn't happened in years, barring 9/11. And Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. I would say..
Get the folks at FR to sign up then as you said the Bu$h twins....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clu Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. special plans
I'm sure some of you are aware that they have various roles in the event of a draft. A few months ago I was Zogbied & they asked that, in the event of a draft, would I prefer to volunteer in a civil service capacity in the US among other things (aka fire dept., police, health-care, etc). There were a few other options but I forget them.

Considering this with the draft legislation sponsored by dems. which was publicized a few months back (IIRC it had civil service provisions), I think they'll find a number of jobs for people to do in the US. Only time will tell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm honored...I see you are a long time member but you don't post much!
Thanks for your response. I say bring on the jobs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. No.
I understand why some people might feel obligated so that no one else dies in their place, but really the Bushies are just using their sense of decency to make them enablers for their imperialist idiocy.

The government of the U.S. is not legitimate, and I refuse to serve it in any capacity whatsoever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GmoneyOwnsAll Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Past few months...
I've been terrified of a draft. Im 19, but these past couple of weeks I've gotten more terrified of what will become of America if * gets another four years. I dont think I would dodge the draft anymore, but I would only serve if I could choose to do some community service job in the US for 1-2 years. If they wouldnt let me do that, I'll do some jail time. I have been contemplating on moving to Canada if * get's reselected. But now I feel it's my duty to stay in my country and if the country falls, Ill go down with it. I refuse to let these demons scare me out of my country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Welcome to DU GmoneyOwnsAll
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm Too Old.
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 05:46 AM by impeachdubya
I fully intend to stay at home and 'comfort' the lonely young ladies, which is why old men have sent young men off to war since time immemorial.

Actually, I jest. And my wife probably wouldn't be into that, either.

I registered (at least I think I did. I was drinking an awful lot of tequila at the time) as a Conscientious Objector during the first gulf war. Not that I needed to, and not that it would have done a damn bit of good, but it seemed like the thing to do at the time. Somewhere, I do know there's an organization for conscientious objectors, which probably just sticks your name straight into some CIA database under "troublemaker"...
The first Gulf War, although I certainly found it disturbing, was something of a lark compared to the situation we are in today. It pains me to no end to say that I think the possibility of a draft is very, very real now. I'm very glad that I'm no longer of draft age, but I have young relatives who are. I worry about them. I worry about all of us.

My advice for people in the 18-26 age group? Get out there and make sure your friends VOTE. It's been my experience that the people who have the most to lose in this election are (obviously not the kids here, of course) the most apathetic and clueless -- not in a dittoheaded, willfully ignorant way, but just in a genuinely uninformed way.. If you're worried about being drafted, get your friends, and their friends, and their friends involved. Registered. Informed. Ready to vote on Nov. 2. Right now, that's all you can do, I think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chefgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. Well, I believe I'm too old
I'm also a female and we don't really know yet if they would draft females or not, so I'm probably safe.

However, my son, my only child, will be 18 during a second Bush term (God forbid) and this is a question that I've been grappling with every single day for months.
I still have no answer.

Holland is looking better and better all the time, though. I have friends there, have learned a lot about their society, etc...

-chef-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I would not put it pass Bush to draft anyone..18-64...male or female
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 06:50 AM by Tight_rope
People can't seem to understand that "BUSH DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT HUMAN LIFE"...except his rich family and family...."BUSHES ONLY TRUE CONCERN IS POWER AND MONEY"....THAT'S IT.

IF YOU CAN WORK THEN YOU CAN FIGHT WILL BE HIS SLOGAN.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theblasmo Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Draft Rumors
If there is a draft, I think that would be the final straw. The question then might become, "At what point do we citizens decide that the government has become too corrupt and pick up arms to correct it?" If they're stupid enough to bring back the draft, there would be huge protests in every major city, businesses would have to close, and the country would shut down. It would be the closest this country has come to civil war since 1865. People would begin quoting parts of the Declaration out loud, especially those portions about why they felt they had to split from England. I personally am too old for a draft, but I teach at a university, and the paranoia is already there. I would take whatever measures I could to either sneak people out of the country, or to lead protests that would make enforcing it damn near impossible. HOWEVER, these are all still rumors, and someone tries to bring up a draft bill every session of Congress -- they never get to the floor. Unfortunately, the "retroactive", sneaky recall "draft" they pulled will do nothing but fan the flames. Draft your friends and neighbors to vote this SOB out.
David Murphy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Welcome to DU theblasmo.
Thank you for your wisdom. I'm sure many people here and at the University you teach appreciate that many have the youth's best interest in heart. Unlike the SOB some call the pResident of the US.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chefgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Oh, you're so right
You'll notice I said I'm "probably" safe. LOL.
Wouldn't surprise me even a little bit to recieve a draft notice. After all, I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Funnily enough, that thought doesn't really bother me so much. What bothers me is the idea that my only child could be fodder for this idiot's illegitimate war. Makes my blood run cold with fear, actually.

-chef-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. 18-64, that would be extreme
Just think, that would eradicate a good part of the Baby Boomers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
38. I wouldn't "put it past him" to do a lot of things...
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 02:32 PM by impeachdubya
But the fact remains that they're going to have to go through a lot of able-bodied, healthy 18-20 year olds before they come down the line to a blind, middle aged leaping gnome with bad knees such as myself. Is it right? No. Is it fair? No. Does Bush seem to give a damn about human life that isn't in petri dishes or corporate boardrooms? No, No, and no.

But attributing the man svengali-like powers to totally remake American society --like drafting 64 year old women-- doesn't do anyone any credit, not least of which, yourself. Would he like to be an all-powerful, fascist dictator? Probably. Is he there yet? No. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing, working to make sure he's harmlessly retired to Crawford next year.

Sorry, but your "people can't seem to understand" line kinda bugged me. I don't think anyone is sitting here saying Bush is a prince among men, just having a rational discussion about the draft, which sadly seems like more of a possible reality than at any time since the end of the Vietnam war.. So if you can take some constructive criticism, you'd probably come across a little less abrasive if you wouldn't shout, particularly at people who are on your side.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. My son turns 17 in December
My daughters are 22 and 23. I've always viewed the military as an honorable career of choice (emphasis on choice) but with that flag-waving zealot on the WH, my opinions have been changing. I worry about my kids and their future constantly, not just militarily but economically.

These are the times that try men's souls........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malachibk Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. Ha Ha! I'm gay.
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 07:34 AM by malachibk
And I dare Bushco to lift THAT ban without letting me marry. That's a fight I'm MORE than ready for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. I'm Gay Too.
Guess I am not worthy enough to fight for my country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
45. I am gay as well and would finesse it a bit differently...I would ask
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 04:18 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
the male members of the draft board if they want to meet up later for some hot gay sex.

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. I'm starting to resent the term "Draft-Dodger".
Dodging implies sneaking out of an obligation. In fact, we have no obligation to forced labor and certainly not for an unelected fraud like Bush.

Why do we always let them set the terms? Wouldn't "Draft-Resister" be more appropriate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. "Draft-Resister"?...Now that does some more patriotic.,,,Thanks...n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. I won't have to go because I'm too old
I registered at 18 as a CO, and I'll be on the streets next to my younger patriots protesting with them.

My nephews are 18 and 16, and I cannot understand how my brother supports bush*. When I asked him, all he did was mutter some shit about Clinton. So sad...

RL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
24. um...its Democrats that are calling for the draft
with no deferrments for being rich or in school

because people will think twice about supporting a war if they or their children have to fight it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'd probably tell them
"Sorry, my son and I are going to have to sit this one out. We need to conserve our energy to defend our home against the coming assault of your police state shock troops".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoktorGreg Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
28. Government issued beer??? You bet!
Sign me up for two, or even three!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. I already served
and nobody had to draft me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElkHunter Donating Member (300 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
33. I'm long past draft age...
...but many of us who were around during the Vietnam war faced this issue. The choices were clearcut if you had a low lottery number: 1. Be drafted 2. Refuse and face imprisonment 3. Go to Canada 4. Join another branch of the military 5. Seek an exemption as a conscientious objector.

Prior to the lottery draw I had already determined that my choice was going to be choice #2: accept imprisonment. When I registered for the draft, under 'occupation' I wrote in 'revolutionary and anti-war activist.' At the time some people were not allowed to be drafted due to their active stance against the war. I figured that since I had previously been arrested because of my anti-war activities it would help my cause to be upfront about my active opposition to the war. Turns out, though, that I ended up with a high lottery number and didn't have to face the choice head on. Years later, though, I got my FBI files through the FOIA. All this stuff was in those files, as well as most of my other political activities. The file even stated that I was "a threat to the security of the U.S. government." So I guess that the Feds did indeed take that 'revolutionary' stuff pretty seriously.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. "a threat to the security of the U.S. government"...LMBAO
I guess that would make you Saddamn-like. Do you have WMD too...LMBAO...The US government is a joke.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. There is strength and safety in numbers.
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 02:06 PM by Karenina
They got the money, the corporations, the police, the gub'mint in ALL its branches, the military, but WE, kids, WE GOT DA NUMBERS.

"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war, and millions have been killed because of this obedience. Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, and all the while the grand thieves are running and robbing the country. That's our problem."

--Howard Zinn

"We shall hang together or we shall hang separately." TJ was it?

Listen up. I be jes' another dumb, underweight, eccentric lil' ol' dreadlocked lady (I include that detail as I AM locked in DREAD) who plays an instrument everbody KNOWS makes you crazy so pay no mind if you haven't one cuz I wanna talk a little about backindaday when I was your age.

The Viet Nam war was was a DISASTER for my generation. Go check out that piece of granite in D.C. if you can even get near it anymore. Nearly 60.000 DEAD. FOR WHAT? Being economically and academically "privileged," I was only personally affected when I met those who were in the jungle getting shot at on Monday, then DUMPED at a U.S. airport on Tuesday in our mid-twenties. TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THOSE GUYS, 30 YEARS LATER ARE ON THE STREETS DYING TODAY. I'm not gonna go into how horribly they've been treated all these years by those institutions whose responsibility was to protect and support them cuz then I jes start screaming obscenities and y'all will surely point at me and say, "She be CRAZED."

Let's just look at what is happening NOW.

1. They be planning to DRAFT 18-?? to "protect" financial investments.
All the bullshit about WMDs, EVIL REGIMES, SOVEREIGNENINNYTNY and DEMOCRACY has so long since been debunked. The troops getting their butts shot at now GET IT and want out. They get endlessly recycled cuz the *misadministration does NOT want any eyewitness telling the tale. Check out what happened to the folks in Jessica Lynch's unit.

2. They've ALREADY gotten A LOT O' FOLKS KILLED (whose numbers they are LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH ABOUT) and MAIMED (whose numbers they are ALSO LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH ABOUT but) y'all see 'em when you go to the Mall.

3. Many "trainloads" of those who served are NOT receiving the services they require in a timely manner. Even if they survived "deployment" they are losing THEIR LIVES.

Here! Be a MAN!!! See the WORLD!!! Sign here.

In the words of the sainted Nancy Reagan, "JUST SAY NO."
OR you can take up the chant from my generation, HELL NO! WE WON'T GO!

What if they gave a war and nobody came?

What if they gave a war and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of 18 yr-olds REFUSED TO REGISTER?

What if they gave a war and those marked for cannon fodder, backed up by Veterans organizations REFUSED TO GET ON THE PLANE?

If YOU have not seen the Moveon.org ad featuring Lee Buttrill, please do go find it now. Maybe one of the sweet chil'uns here would be so kind as to post a link. ;-)

Then tell me why you should be out there all by your lonesome with your flawed plan, trying to escape this *predator.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. Dodge AND assist others in doing so if at all possible.
If anyone needed money, transportation, food - whatever - to aid in not serving this traitor in his schemes for world domination, they'd get my (admittedly limited) assistance, no questions asked.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. If they get around to me at age 46. I would do my duty and serve.
Its the law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kitka Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. Though I do respect those that choose to serve with noble intent...
I will not, nor will I want my children, to serve in the military. Ever. So yes, if there was a draft, our family would dodge it. My husband, who would have signed up for the army right after 9/11 if they'd have taken him, now feels the same way. For him it's situational, for me it's moral.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
41. ...anybody can "dodge" the draft, and could in 1968
...I would never serve the Nation-State unless the State was in jeapordy, and that would mean MANY people far wealthier than me going broke before I could give a rat's ass....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'm 45 and wear bifocals. (nt)
but I THINK I'd go. I don't think my conscience could allow me to think some poor kid was going in my place because I didn't. To be honest I've never been put into that spot, too young for Vietnam, too old to register when that restarted in 1980.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalPersona Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
43. Assuming
that I am still young enough (I turn 25 this October), I would not dodge the draft, because I don't have the kind of money and resources that would require.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
44. I'd rather go to jail than fight for the PNAC.
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 04:03 PM by Zorra
If the US was invaded by a foreign power intent on occupying the country, I'd sign up immediately.

That's why I think most republicans are chickenshit hypocrites. They pretend that they believe in Bu$h and the war in Iraq. But they really know that the war has no real justification. If they really believed that the war in Iraq was justifiable and was a war for the defense of our nation, they would enlist and fight for what they believe in. Unless of course, they are afraid to fight for what they believe in. Like I said, they are either chickenshits or hypocrites, or both.

Most republicans are just like their wimpy leader, George W. Bu$h, a "man", a former cheerleader, who deserted the military, a "man" that went AWOL from the Air National Guard during the war in Vietnam. Bu$h and his republican minions willingly send others to face death and dismemberment in Iraq, while they sit comfortably in their homes watching Pox News tell them how wonderful the war is, a right wing "news" corporation that never reports how many troops have died and been crippled for life in Iraq, or that over 10,000 innocent Iraqi civilians have died because of the war.

Bu$h and his republican supporters are just the same.

They are chickenshit hypocrites with hands stained by the blood of their own people that they have sent off to die for them for no good reason whatsoever, and their hands are stained by the blood of innocent Iraqi civilians killed because Bu$h lied and said that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Here is a challenge to Bu$h's republican supporters: If you are not really the weak, feint hearted wussies that we all already know that you are, enlist in the military today and fight for the PNAC and your glorious leader in his war. Take a stand for what you believe in. Write to your leader today and ask him to send his daughters off to the front lines. I guarantee, he will not send his daughters to fight in Iraq. Only your children. Only my children. Never, ever his children.

Otherwise, those of us that actually know what Bu$h and his war are all about are fully justified in holding all of you in the utmost contempt. You have sent our people to die in Iraq for no good reason whatsoever.

I already know that you republicans won't enlist, because you are all quivering, pathetic, hypocritical cowards.

And you know it's true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MattNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
46. i'd probably go
if it meant one other person my age didn't have to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. That's absurd Mattie!
You (and others) sound like you have "battered wives' syndrome. What prevents you from organizing with your peers and getting the support of veterans who have ALREADY been used and abused to stand up and say en masse, THIS GAME IS FUCKED AND WE AIN'T PLAYING?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dob Bole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
47. I would enlist and go. My perspecive...
I'm from a rural area where farming went under. The only way to get a job out of high school is to go into the military.

I didn't because I got a college scholarship. But I think I owe it to all of my friends and relatives to do my duty and not run away if it comes down to a draft.

I could die, but that's one thing that we all have in common, isn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'd Join the Soccer Team
It works for the Iraqis
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
49. Too old to be drafted...
...I would encourage everyone to dodge and would work to provide safe harbor for draft dodgers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I'd go to Afghanistan
Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 04:52 PM by DaveSZ
I would not go to Bush's quagmire in Iraq to die for his lies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. BUSH 'O4 = DRAFT '05, KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!
Many rumors have been floating around the Internet about the possibility of the draft restarting on June 15, 2005. The press meanwhile has not reported the actual facts, just as they have “somehow” ignored that Bush invaded Iraq for its oil and is letting his oil industry cronies make off with all the booty by the tankerful.

Here are the actual facts on the possibility of the draft returning.

First of all, the draft never really left us. Selective Service has been registering people for over twenty years and at any moment the President can go to Congress and ask them to reauthorize conscription. It doesn’t take much to imagine a re-elected Bush going to Congress and saying “We cannot cut and run from Iraq or the War on Terror. I need you to reauthorize conscription.” Would a re-elected Republican Congress give it to him? You bet. An article in the July 13 issue of Family Circle reported that Rove surveyed Republican members of Congress to see if they would support the President if the draft needed to be reinstated. The answer was they would.

And they would not have to pass a whole new draft law to do it. All that is needed is a “trigger resolution”, which could be passed in an afternoon—and bingo! No debate, no regular bill, just a short resolution passed quickly in the dead of night and the draft is back for men 18 to 26.

That is why the Democratic draft legislation being offered by Rangel and Hollings is totally irrelevant. These are known protest bills and actually propose drafting women, just to make sure they will never see the light of day. Rangel and Hollings offered them to raise the issue and confront Bush. Hollings even said he wouldn’t vote for his own bill!

They are not needed—and the press and the Republicans will bring them up as red herrings to distract everyone from what is really going on: Bush is spending $28 million this year to reduce draft activation time from the usual 193 days all the way down to 75 days. He is quietly, behind the scenes, oiling up the draft machinery—getting ready to reinstate for the Spring of 2005.

Only in this draft there will be NO student deferments, other than finishing out the semester, or the year if you are a senior. Divinity School students, however, get full four-year deferments. We might see a lot of young men getting religion. By the way, Canada has also tightened up the border and signed the Smart Border agreement after 9/11, and it is doubtful that going north will be an answer.

What is the proof? The government’s own document, the SSS Performance Plan for Fiscal Year 2004.

The Selective Service System, or the SSS, has for decades operated at a low level of readiness. Readiness Exercises are conducted on a multi-year cycle but historically these have been little more than getting draft board volunteers together and going over the procedures of what would happen under reinstatement and training new members every summer. And the draft boards themselves have become 80% vacant over the decades.

In the current 5-year cycle of exercises, however, the SSS is clearly ramping up the draft machinery to an unprecedented level. In fact, the mission of the Selective Service is to be ready to conscript within 193 days of reauthorization, over 6 months before any lottery could be held and report orders issued. The 2004 plan reduces that time to 75 days.

By March 31, 2005, a report must be issued by the Director of the SSS to the Pentagon that the system will be ready to hold the first draft lottery within 75 days, rather than the usual 193 days.

“Strategic Objective 1.2: Ensure a mobilization infrastructure of 56 State Headquarters,
442 Area Offices and 1,980 Local Boards are operational within 75 days of an authorized
return to conscription.”
Tie that to this objective:

“An annual report providing the results of the implementation of these performance
measures will be submitted by March 31, 2005.”

75 days from March 31, 2005 is about June 15, 2005. If Bush asks for reinstatement on April 1, Congress could pass it that night and the first batch of over one million 20 year-olds would face the lottery as soon as that date.

Here is how the $28 million is being spent according to the official document:

“Strategic Goal 1: Increase the effectiveness and efficiency of the Manpower
Delivery Systems (Projected allocation for FY 2004 – $7,942,000)
Strategic Goal 2: Improve overall Registration Compliance and Service to the Public (Projected allocation FY 2004 – $8,769,000)

Strategic Goal 3: Enhance external and internal customer service
(Projected allocation for FY 2004 – $10,624,000)

Strategic Goal 4: Enhance the system which guarantees that each conscientious objector is properly classified, placed, and monitored. (Projected allocation for FY 2004 – $955,000)”

It should be noted the $28 million is not a huge increase, as the 2003 SSS budget was around $26 million. Yet reducing activation time from 193 to 75 days is clearly laid out in the document. The SSS also began a crash recruitment drive last summer and fall to fill those 10,000 plus board vacancies by Spring 2005. That has been noted by the press.

But the following has not.

In analyzing each of the 2004 goals in detail it is painfully obvious that there are hidden “activation bombshells” in this so-called “Performance Plan”. Goal number 1 in particular brings the combat induction process up to 95% operational readiness, going so far as to actually hold a mock lottery drawing this year and to issue sample orders to report for the famous medical exam. The document does not reveal the day in 2004 the mock lottery is to be held, but it likely to be any day or week now.

In addition, the Medical Draft, or Health Care Personnel Delivery System (HCPDS in the document), is for the first time brought up to full readiness by next year. This draft would take men and women up to age 44 if they are doctors, nurses or one of 60-some medical specialties. No medical deferments allowed. Previous readiness exercises merely went over what would happen with HCPDS and updated the guide. The 2004 plan actually develops a readiness exercise for the Medical Draft that would be conducted next year. Plus HCPDS must be ready to conscript by June.

“Develop an Area Office Prototype Exercise which will test the HCPDS work flows and its automated support programs. FY 2004.

Prepare, conduct, and evaluate an Area Office Prototype Exercise for health care in FY 2005.”

Goal number two increase registration compliance and actually tries to assign Registrars to nearly every high school, the goal being 85% of the schools. This could very well indicate that Bush plans to have a very large draft indeed. Several hundred thousand men from each year could be inducted, while the Medical draft is designed to induct up to 80,000 per year. At first, the system probably could not stand to draft more than 200,000 to 300,000 per year but after that it could go much higher.

Goal number three makes ready the administration of the draft, down to making sure the system can answer all correspondence within 10 days and that new tracking software is implemented as quickly as possible.

Goal number four is particularly ominous.

“Strategic Objective 4.1: Ensure a mobilization infrastructure of 48 Alternative Service Offices and 48 Civilian Review Boards are operational within 96 days after notification of a return to induction.”

For 31 years, the Conscientious Objector system, called the Alternative Service, has lain dormant. The 2004 plan also calls for this to be brought up to speed and to be ready to decide cases and place COs in the Alternative Service by July 6, 2005 (96 days after March 31, 2005). The SSS is even going so far as to draw up the SOPs, the Standard Operating Procedures which identify local employers eligible to receive cheap AS workers and to also draw up the actual MOU, the Memorandum of Understanding the employer must sign to get their CO workers and allow their mandatory attendance to be monitored. This is the last obstacle to be hurdled before the draft could actually be ready for activation under the law.

So Bush is filling the draft board seats, testing the entire combat draft this year and the medical draft next year (early next year?) and making sure the Alternative Service is geared up—all by March 31 of 2005.

But that’s not all going on quietly behind the scenes.

It turns out that the SSS has presented a secret 6-page proposal to the Pentagon and given to the Congress that calls for the creation of a “Skills Draft”, conscripting men and women up to age 34 for non-combat jobs such as linguist, computer specialist or engineer—the first three occupations the DoD has already identified as being in short supply. Modeled after the Medical Draft, the secret document was obtained only through the FOI Act by a reporter from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

If this is created after Bush’s re-election, DoD could theoretically ask for hundreds of different occupations to be drafted. The SSS, right this very minute is designing procedures and a massive database that would track everyone who had special skills—including their entire skill set and most important, their address.

Why would Bush need such a large draft? The answer lies in the secret plan that Wesley Clark revealed in his book Winning Modern Wars: Iraq, Terrorism, and the American Empire:

“I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, and one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan. So, I thought, this is what they mean when they talk about ‘draining the swamp.’"

Assuming Libya is now off the list, according to Clark Bush and the neo-cons plan to invade 5 more countries. That need does not include trying to defeat the insurgents solely with the U.S. military as a re-elected Bush might attempt. Bush, moreover, is building 14 permanent bases and huge intelligence centers in Iraq and has no intention of ever leaving that oil to the Russians or even worse, the French.

The major media cover hardly anything that John Kerry says, especially if it is about the draft. So you would never know it, but John Kerry has a No-Draft Plan, a plan to strengthen the military in key areas yet draw down U.S. troop levels in Iraq by internationalizing the situation and then getting out as soon as possible.

Here are the five main points of Kerry’s No-Draft Plan:
1. Move some paper-pushers to combat (lots of potential there)

2. Increase enlistment with real scholarships, benefits and pay raises

3. Let troops know Special Ops will hunt al-Queda, no more invasions needed, so re-up rate goes up. "Primarily a law enforcement effort, not a full military effort", said John Kerry on Meet The Press.

4. Start a "Civilian Stability Corps" that would help in reconstructing Afghanistan and Iraq and relieve military pressure. It would be kind of like the Peace Corps—but on steroids.

5. GET FOREIGN TROOPS TO COME INTO INSTEAD OF LEAVE IRAQ.

Kerry gave some details about the proposed Civilian Stability Corps, made up of volunteers:

"...I propose that we enlist thousands of them in a Civilian Stability Corps, a reserve organization of volunteers ready to help win the peace in troubled places. Like military reservists, they will have peacetime jobs; but in times of national need, they will be called into service to restore roads, renovate schools, open hospitals, repair power systems, draft a constitution, or build a police force. A Civilian Stability Corps can bring the best of America to the worst of the world—and reduce pressure on the military."
- Source: Kerry, John. "Protecting Our Military Families in Times of War: A Military Family Bill of Rights." March 17, 2004. http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0317.html >

In April, on a conference call with 130 College Newspaper Editors, Kerry said “No Draft”, that he would have a sensible foreign policy that would not require reinstatement. And in June, Kerry told a Wisconsin high school that if elected, a draft would be "absolutely unnecessary".

Kerry’s plan calls for increasing active-duty troop levels by 40,000 people. He also doubles the number of Special Ops troops. Half the 40,000 being added are civil engineering/reconstruction specialists and half are combat, costing an extra $7 billion, but it relieves the pressure on the Guard and Reserves for overseas deployments and essentially saves the Volunteer Army. $7 billion is well worth not having to bring back the draft!

Kerry charges that Bush is ruining the Volunteer approach with long Guard and Reserve deployments and numerous stop-loss orders, which Kerry says is a “Back-door Draft”. Since Kerry will increase pay, benefits, scholarships and reduce long deployments of regular troops and the reserves, if he is elected the re-enlistment rates and recruitment rates will return to normal. Recently, troops returning from Iraq are reportedly leaving the Service in huge numbers, although denied by DoD (see David Hackworth, Voting With their Feet http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38644).

With this No-Draft Plan, Kerry will not have to resort to conscription, even after Bush has made such a mess of it in Iraq. Kerry has also pledged that he will push renewable energy development and true energy independence, “so that we never again have soldiers dying for oil”.

Kerry has criticized the inequality of the draft, that the poor and minorities are inducted in higher numbers than their fair share and that the draft is a source of conflict. John Kerry will not reinstate the draft—outside of the invasion of the United States by China or something like that.

The choice is thus clear to all voters. Vote for Bush and you are also voting for the resumption of the draft—to man his hidden agenda of invading more countries and staying in Iraq forever.

Or vote for Kerry and you are voting PNAC out of the White House, and with it Bush’s hidden agenda to bring back the draft so U.S. companies can dominate the world’s remaining oil supply.

Finally, a draft is morally reprehensible, an infringement of freedom against the principles of the Constitution. We know that Bush cares nothing about morality when it comes to Iraq and that Kerry has over the years always expressed real opposition to the draft for a number of moral and ethical reasons. Having lived through the Vietnam era, Kerry knows well the long history of conflict and opposition that the draft has wrought.

John Kerry will not reinstate the draft, but Bush is secretly gearing up the whole system right now for the summer of next year.
Moral opposition to conscription goes all the way back to the year 1814. In a response to a proposed draft to fight the British, Daniel Webster perhaps said it best:

“Is this, sir, consistent with the character of a free government? Is this civil liberty? Is this the real character of our Constitution? No, sir, indeed it is not.

"The Constitution is libeled, foully libeled. The people of this country have not established for themselves such a fabric of despotism. They have not purchased at a vast expense of their own treasure and their own blood a Magna Carta to be slaves.

"Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents, and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war, in which the folly or the wickedness of government may engage it?"

BUSH ’04 = DRAFT ‘05

Link:
http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC