McCarthyism - History buffs please answer this question...

[Union Thug]

What was the attitude of the American people on the Communist witch hunts at the time they were occurring?

[kentuck]

1. Most people were blase about the loyalty oaths that were initiated...

..so America has always been vulnerable to such people with their dangerous ideas and attitudes.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I was still required to take a loyalty oath in the 60s,

when I applied for a job at the local university. It creeped me out; by that time, McCathy was discredited, even in conservative Champaign County IL.

[jimshoes]

2. I have read some newspapers

from those times that my family had kept. It seems to me that the general feeling was that they were doing a good thing. At least that's the impression I get from the papers of the time. This was in 1951 and 1952 that i refer to.

[papau]

3. History buffs ???? - that hurt...... :-(

attitude in general was that the process was keeping folks safe.

Scare works - makes one popular - for a while.

Indeed kids were taught to show no respect to commie liberals - it was ok to cheat/dump on them - The UN could not be trusted - NATO was ok - China was pure evil

Not a whole lot different than the story Bush has been trying to sell.

[Kanary]

17. yup, I guess it's inconceivable to teeny boppers that there are those who

were actually *alive* then.....

Back when the crust of the earth was cooling.....

:hi:

Kanary

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I was little

but I remember there was a lot of fear. Fear of the Soviet Union bombing us. I remember my mother saying there was 'something wrong' with some actors/performers, but was too young to understand what was meant.

[theblasmo]

9. Much Worse Than Implied

I have taught several classes about the Blacklist, so here goes... The majority of Americans at the time believed that Communism was an imminent, deadly threat, much as most Americans believed that WMD's were a threat, and for many of the same reasons. ONE person complaining about someone who was a perceived Communist could get them removed from their job, and many people took advantage of this situation. Although unprovable via documentation, I have it on reliable information -- from one of the writers that worked for him at the time -- that Walt Disney used the blacklist to get rid of writers and artists who were planning on unionizing. It was not until the infamous televised Army hearings, where McCarthy claimed there were "X-amounts" (the numbers changed from time to time) of Communists in the Armed Forces, that the American people saw him for what he was -- a sick, scared little man who was using innuendo and false evidence to strengthen his own political position. His career was destroyed as a result of that, and also thanks to Edward R. Murrow's investigation of the McCarthy hearings. Although it was later proved that there were Communists in the United States government, the numbers were very small, and none of them posed any real danger to the US. Most of the people accused either joined the party as a response to the Great Depression, when Capitalism was thought to have failed, or worked to promote US-Soviet relations when they were our allies during WWII. A great book to read on the matter is Many Are The Crimes, by Ellen Schrecker.
David Murphy

[Union Thug]

10. thx for the book reference! /eom

[Kanary]

18. Thanks for a great reply, and fine reference!

That's one of the limitations of a forum venue..... you obviously have a lot of knowledge on this, and it won't fit in the space provided. :) Fine job of summarizing!

This is quite precisely why those of us who have some memory of this time, or those who have studied it are deeply disturbed at the current atmosphere within the Democratic Party. Fear can cause some very nasty reactions, and some of these have been witnessed here.

Kanary

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. Yes. 1949 China goes Communist and SU explodes Atom Bomb

1945: Hiroshima and end of traumatic World War II, which was a total war involving all levels and sectors of society (unlike Bush and Bush's wars).

1949: Soviet Union explodes its atomic bomb.

1949: China goes communist.

1950: Korean war starts. Communists invade our ally.

Concurrently, Americans were beginning to taste the good life after the privations of the Depression and WW2. They didn't want to go back.

So by 1951-52, those were times of high drama and high hopes. Fertile soil for fearmongers.

[alphafemale]

30. Welcome to DU! And another book I found oddly fascinating...

Was an "auto-biography" by Roy Cohn. The quotes are because it was largely ghost-written.

Hubby came across it at a Thrift Shop shortly after we watched HBO's "Angels in America."

He knew I'd have to have it.

It is one intriguing glimpse of how the "Dark Side" rationalizes damn near anything.

[theblasmo]

33. Roy Cohn and The Simpsons

The "lawyer" on the Simpsons with the high-reedy voice and the glasses ("I'm so sure of Marge Simpson's guilt that I've decided to waste the court's time by rating the TV super-hunks...")is based on Roy Cohn. What an evil, frightened little man.

[SheilaT]

6. Many adults were intimidated

by things like loyalty oaths. Some of them knew the oaths were wrong, but did not feel free to speak up. It was a lot like the period shortly after September 11, 2001, when it was completely impossible to bring up legitimate criticism of George W Bush.

[chieftain]

7. Significant Numbers

of people supported the effort to remove subversives from every walk of American life . McCarthy and his lawyer , Roy Cohn , made a tremendous strategic error by attacking the U.S, Army . The resulting televised confrontation was widely viewed . During the proceedings a courageous lawyer , Joseph Welsh , deftly highlighted the cruelty and recklessness that the Republican Senator engaged in and the reaction was the same as the one where the child pointed out that the emperor had no clothes . The viciousness which had been in plain sight for so long could no longer be denied or sustained and the anti-red furor began to subside somewhat . Nevertheless , the Republicans have continuously to this day made the disparagment of Liberals' commitment to America part of their arsenal .

[goddess40]

16. Have you no shame?

This is Goddess40s' mom. I was just a kid at the time but I remember my parents being outraged at Senator McCarthy. We lived in WI and he was our senator at the time. I can still remember Joe Welsch taking on McCarthy and saying, "Have you no shame,sir? Have you no shame?" It seemed this was one of the turning points against McCarthy. It took a few brave people to stand up to McCarthy and Welsch was one of the bravest.

[H2O Man]

8. People were scared shitless.....

....much like today. Gosh, think of it: the right-wing politicians said that union organizers, civil rights activists, and them damned "Hollywood-types" were dangerous. Sounds familiar, huh?

[Union Thug]

11. You guys are scaring me! =)

So, it sounds like McCarthism was like Bush-ism or more accurately, neo-conservatism on steroids (loyalty oaths, government by fear, etc).

How little things change.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR GREAT POSTS!

[Kanary]

19. Actually, that's a "scare" that's not so bad to have.......

Being familiar with the past, and seeing the resemblance to the future is the only way we humans have to avoid the same pitfalls.

We didn't take the glaring lessons of Vietnam to heart, but hopefully those such as yourself will hear these stories and do some serious reflection.

And I''m not just talking about *.

Kanary, who thanks *YOU* for listening! Talk this up among those you know.......it's the way to honor those who were so badly hurt during this shameful era of our past.

[trof]

12. The Red Scare.

Oh boy.
Who else remembers backyard fallout shelters?
We didn't have one, but some neighbors did.

[H2O Man]

13. Civil Defense Drills in school

scared the fuck out of me. I had helped my father enough on building construction that I knew that either hiding under a desk, or sitting in the hallway with my head tucked into my knees was unlikely to prevent injuries if the building was bombed!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. "Duck and cover" drills....remember them well.

[slojim240]

14. About the same as they are about Bush and Al-qaeda

Incensed but won't do a damn think and will pretend that Al-qaeda is a really big threat when it is our own stupid foreign policies.

[Cleita]

15. The propaganda machine was well-oiled and everyone

was scared to death of anything that hinted of communism. The nuclear threat was kept in front of the populace during the Eisenhower administration, with civil defense films shown in workplaces and schools. There were duck and cover drills in the schools. No one thought that McCarthy was wrong to ask any citizen if he was a card carrying communist.

Nothing Russian or from any commie country was allowed in this country especially movies. Fortunately, I was living in South America part of the time so I saw plenty of Russian movies, most of them were musicals about their fairy tales. The costumes and scenery were very colorful.

I never felt like I was being propagandized. As a matter-of-fact, the stories involved Czars and Czarinas of various mythical realms much like the Arthurian tales of the west.

[agingdem]

20. My father

and mother were Holocaust survivors. What they found incredulous about the McCarthy witch hunts was that this could happen in America. As the victims and survivors of a fascist society, they were at once disgusted with the of muted voices of our neighbors...and terrified that those same neighbors would "turn them in" because they were immigrants, Jews, and liberal.

[berry]

22. I don't know about the general attitude of people about McCarthy

and his methods, but there's no doubt there was a "Red Scare." Weekly air-raid drills, and fear of being bombed by the USSR.

Just today I came across a letter by Julia Child (written in March 1954) to protest a group that was trying to mobilize alums of Smith College to lobby to fire 5 faculty members they were accusing of being Communists. (It reminds me of several RW groups working today to "cleanse" academia of "anti-Americans".) Julia certainly had no use for the McCarthyites, but she wasn't exactly saying that Communists should be welcome either. I wonder how representative that was--not questioning the danger/fear, but strongly oppposed to the methods.

Here's the link and a short out-take:

http://www.unknownnews.net/040202child.html

"David Lawrence, the newspaper columnist, has an article in today's Herald Tribune in which he states again a principle he has stated before in regard to fighting Communism:

"The followers of Senator McCarthy believe in fighting fire with fire, and they are not too concerned with the methods, etc."

This is the theory of the "end justifying the means." This is the method of the totalitarian governments. It makes no difference how you do it: lie, steal, murder, bear false witness, but use any method fair or foul as long as you reach your goal. I am sure Lawrence has not thought through his thesis to this length, but carried to its logical conclusion, it is the nullification of all that the United States stands for."

Sounds like it could have been written yesterday, no?

[Kanary]

23. Powerful stuff! We need a movie now sorta like M*A*S*H....

What M*A*S*H did for the Vietnam war, would be great to have a movie now to do for the Patriot crap.... expose it, historically, for the UNPATRIOTIC crap that it truly is.

Any moviemakers in the house?

Kanary

[Cleita]

24. Michael Moore?

You reading this?

[Kanary]

25. ^_^ I think poor Michael is "otherwise engaged" ^_^

Actually, I'm not talking about a documentary, per se. Which is why I mentioned M*A*S*H (dang, that's tedious to type!)

A powerful fiction account that draws obvious parallels between then and now.... I want to see crowds of people liaving theaters, scared and enraged into action.

Kanary

[Cleita]

26. Who else could do that. Mel Gibson? But oops he's one of

them. How about Martin Sheen? He's one of us.

[Kanary]

28. Good suggestion. I wish Martin Sheen would get interested

in developing a project such as this. He's an actor, but with enough status that he has contacts and is probably able to develop some of his own projects.

Otherwise, we need a very talented liberal producer. ^_^

Heh...... just saying that put me in mind of Mel Brooks. If he could do a *quality* satire, that would also be enlightening. "There are many paths to the same goal, grasshopper."

:hi:

Kanary

[0rganism]

31. A sequel to "Dr. Strangelove", perhaps?

Oh wait, there couldn't be a sequel to that film...
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[Yupster]

32. What MASH did for the Vietnam war, or maybe

What "All's Quiet on The Western Front" did for the Napoleanic Wars.

[dryan]

34. wrong war....

"All Quiet on the Western Front" was about WWI.

[robbedvoter]

39. MASH was about Korea

[brook]

43. Set in Korea, but...

most definitely about Vietnam. (I worked on the film).

[starroute]

27. My parents and the people they knew were scared

A lot of people they knew had been Communists back in the 30's, so they felt they had good reason to be nervous. My father told me just recently that he and my mother were afraid the government would get ahold of the mailing list for George Seldes' "In Fact" newsletter and come after them.

The father of a friend of mine was Jay Gorney, who'd co-written "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime" back in the Depression. He wrote a school song for our school, and we sang it at assemblies all through second grade, but when we came back in the fall for third grade, we mysteriously no longer had a school song any more. Years later, my parents explain to me that it was because Jay Gorney had been called up before HUAC over the summer.

I don't know if it was fear of the Communists or fear of Joe McCarthy, but one way or another everything was paranoid in those years -- even the kids' shows. We joke about tinfoil hats, but in 1953 there was an episode of the old Superman show where crooks got ahold of a mind-ray machine and were zapping people with it to keep them from testifying against them. When they started proposing to mind-zap Superman, I ran out of the room, never watched the show again, and fell asleep with one hand firmly over my forehead for the next two years. (Not that I really believed anyone was shooting mind-rays at me, any more than I really believed there were dinosaurs under my bed, but that didn't keep me from being scared.)

Those were pretty nutsy times.

[0007]

29. I remember those days perfectly clear. Basically most people

were ignorant and more or less went along with the program and of course the John Birch Society had much momentum and strength in numbers. Once the people honed in on Joseph McCarthy and he was exposed as incredible things begin to change. His charges were never proved, and he was censured by the Senate in 1954.

We had senators in those days that had a ton of balls.

[dryan]

35. Anecdotes about McCarthy....

Roy Cohn was engaged for a while to none other than Barbara Walters. Another tidbit about him is that his cousin is Dick Morris...yes, Clinton' campaign consultant. Joseph Welch later played a judge in the Movie "Anatomy of a Murder".

[hatrack]

37. More McCarthy tidbits

In the winter of 1951-52, Nixon bumped into McCarthy at a party on Capitol Hill. Well, McCarthy wasn't exactly at the party proper - instead, he was kneeing reporter Drew Pearson in the groin in the mens' room. Nixon broke it up, then helped McCarthy stagger out into the snow to find his car. Only one problem - McCarthy couldn't remember where he'd parked. Eventually, an hour or two later, they located the machine and McCarthy roared off into the night.

One untold story of Army-McCarthy was the nature of the relationship between McCarthy's counsel, Roy Cohn, and Cohn's assistant, David Schine. There was hardly any way to even hint at a gay relationship back then in polite society, let alone in the atmosphere of a Congressional hearing. However, Joseph Welch found a way.

In the course of the hearings, Cohn had supplied McCarthy with an altered photograph, which became part of the hearing's evidence. When Welch produced the original unaltered photo, there was a long and thoughtful silence in the hearing room. Welch, with a puckish touch asked the senator about the source of the faked photograph:

Welch: Did you think this came from a pixie? ...

McCarthy: Will the counsel for my benefit define - I think he might be an expert on that - what a pixie is?

Welch: Yes, I should say, Senator, that a pixie is a close relative of a fairy. Shall I proceed, sir? Have I enlightened you?

The other untold story of the Army-McCarthy hearings was the bargain Welch had made with McCarthy. McCarthy had agreed before the hearing not to go after an associate in Welch's law firm, Fred Fisher. Fisher had briefly belonged to the Lawyers' Guild, which was a Communist front organization, but had quickly dropped out when he discovered who they supported. In exchange, Welch agreed not to mention Roy Cohn's lack of a service record or anything about his mysterious failure to be drafted, despite physical suitability. McCarthy broke his side of the bargain, which led to Welch destroying him on national TV. Welch didn't even need to bring up material on Cohn's military non-record, though if you see footage of the exchange, you can see Cohn on the witness stand just paralyzed in anticipation of Welch doing exactly that.

[tom_paine]

41. The problem is, with the Sovietized Amerikan Press, most

Imperial Subjects will NEVER be "introudced" to the Real Pack of Monsters who are doing this to our great nation.

Never.

And even if they did, they've been propagandized with something the Soviets nor Nazis could have even dreamt of (but Orwell and Ray Bradbury did) so they would be as likely to believe their own eyes/ears as a Nazi or Soviet would have been upon hearing criticism of Hitler/Stalin.

[bobbieinok]

36. I was a kid and then a young teen at the time

I was very serious minded and read and listened to all the 'think' pieces and believed everything I read and heard. I was 'informed.'

I remember in the early 50s there was a long article or series of articles in Look magazine about how US young people needed to develop democratic ideals to combat communism. All sorts of people, including Ike, wrote articles about US losing its way and young people needed ideals.

I took all of this very seriously.

My dad listened faithfully to the 'Army-McCarthy Hearings.' He was very frustrated that he could not 'see' it; these hearings broke his determination to avoid TV. We got our first TV shortly after the hearings.

(I watched Queen Elizabeth's coronation in 1950 on a friend's TV.)

[Kanary]

40. TRUMBO: Red, White and Blacklisted, Curious Theatre Company

Coincidence of timing........
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=142x1345

TRUMBO: Red, White and Blacklisted, Curious Theatre Company
By Christopher Trumbo

"In 1947, Colorado native Dalton Trumbo stood up to the House Committee on the Un-American Activities
and was blacklisted as one of the infamous "Hollywood Ten". The legendary screen writer's biting and
hilarious letters tell the story of one American who took on Congress, Hollywood and a fearful nation....and
won."

Sept 2 - Oct 23, 2004
8pm Thursday, (2 for 1 tickets)
8 pm Friday and Saturday
2pm Sunday

Starring: Jamie Horton Sept. 2-12
John Ashton Sept 16-26
Louis Schaefer Sept 30- Oct 10
Marcus Waterman Oct 14-23

(Both Jamie Horton and John Ashton should be *wonderful*... I'm not familiar with the others)

Curous Theatre Company
1080 Acoma St (1 blk w of Broadway at 11th) Free Parking
303-623-0524

www.curiousthreatre.org

[dryan]

42. Wrote Spartacus....

after several years of unemployment, Kirk Douglas hired Trumbo to write "Spartacus" (the original, not the cheesy TV movie.)