More "Pledge of Allegiance" talk!

[Cybergata]

I was reading a long thread about someone's child not wanting to say the pledge of allegiance here the other day. The very next day was my first day back at school (my 31st first day of school). The question of the pledge came up in the 7th grade teacher's meeting.

I have fought this battle with teachers since NM's state legislature passed a law requiring schools to say the pledge every day. I've been called a traitor, and have had other teacher's yell at the top of their lungs because I told them I can't say it myself. I didn't bring up the subject, but a colleague did. We are going to discuss this further with the greater faculty in the future.

The question was what to do with kids who refuse to stand up? I was worried that I would have to dig out the Supreme Court case that decided that no child should be kicked out of school for refusing to say the pledge. Luckily the principal at my school gave all the right answers. No child will be forced to say the pledge. I was glad to hear many of the other teacher's comments were in agreement.

For years, there was a teacher, now gone, who basically forced the kids to say the pledge. There are still a few who tell the kids they will be in trouble if they don't.

Last year one of my wonderful 8th grade girls earned the right to give a speech at the 8th grade graduation. She was told by a teacher that she would not be able to give her speech if she didn't say the pledge. Not saying the pledge is a choice this girl made for some very strong reasons of her own. She came to me about it and I suggested she and mother talk to the principal, and promise a lawyer from the ACLU would come the next time. This did the trick, and my former student gave her speech.

I hate when teachers bully kids. Anyway, I was too out of it before to respond to the thread, and I just wanted to share this with you.
Viva to these strong girls who refused to back down to bullies, not matter what position of power they have over them. :hippie:

[noahmijo]

1. I would proudly say the pledge if I was still in school

and I show respect during it when I attend a hockey or a ballgame.

However I despise the idea of making it mandatory. I prefer to say it because I choose to not because someone is making me. That to me is what seperates us from a Stalinism or Facism.

[Catch22Dem]

3. Good answer n/t

[Cybergata]

4. I always said the pledge in school...

In fact there were a few years I said the pledge to New Mexico and to the U.S. everyday in Latin. ;-) It was later that I found that I couldn't say it. I do not believe in God, and I follow the path of Buddhism. I also feel like choking when I hear "and justice for all." I've seen too many poor people go to jail, while too many rich get away with really horrendous crimes. There are good people in jail for drug crimes, and people sitting in the white house who probably have been involved with similar crimes. I've seen too many children living in poverty, while the fat cats get richer. I wish we had justice, and I would love it if we aspired to have it, but I have very little hope of that. I also know way too much about history and what can arise out of nationalism. As I meet people, travel, and communicate with people on line, I prefer to pledge to the the betterment of all humankind. :hippie:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. I'm glad to know that you don't have to force the kids.

I haven't said the pledge since H.S. in 1961 and haven't stood for the National Anthem since 1965. Forcing the kids to spout off patriotism like good little robots is a little too reminiscent of "good Germans".

Jingoistic nationalism at it's most banal.

[Deja Q]

5. Let corporate america be forced to say it.

They're loyalty and allegiance is only toward the CEO's pocketbook, as the CEO exploits as many people and things as he can.

[comradebillyboy]

6. i also teach in NM, but i never say the pledge

i do, however tell the class to be quiet and i do stand and face the flag.
nm law requires the pledge to be said, but students may not be compelled to stand and recite the pledge. at my school enough teachers refuse to say the pledge that one of the administrators says it over the intercom.

this section of albuquerque is pretty conservative, but there has been no problem with the school's approach. it helps that our principal is sensible and competent and is clever enough not to pick unnecessary fights.

[Viking12]

7. WEST VIRGINIA STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION v. BARNETTE

This case from the middle of WWII makes the most eloquent argument against mandatory recitation of the pledge of allegiance. I strongly recommend reading this even if not in the middle of a "controversy", it can equip you well for when the topic does arise.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=319&invol=624

On edit: spelling

[Cybergata]

8. This is one of my favorite cases to discuss with my 8th...

grade U.S. History students. I've also told my students who feel forced to say the pledge, to quote it if they ever want to raise the question with one of their teachers. Thanks for pointing out this wonderful link. I put it to good use. :hippie: