I ran across a great anecdote in Rolling Stone by Joe Biden

[JohnnyRingo]

It was in the article: What Next, What went wrong in Iraq, and where can we go from here.

Q: Surely the Abu Ghraib prison scandal didn't help. Should Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld or other Bush officials resign?

Biden: I was in the Oval Office the other day, and the president asked me what I would do about resignations. I said, "Look, Mr. President, would I keep Rumsfeld? Absolutely not." And I turned to Vice President Cheney, who was there, and I said, "Mr. Vice President, I wouldn't keep you if it weren't constitutionally required." I turned back to the president and said, "Mr. President, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld are bright guys, really patriotic, but they've been dead wrong on every major piece of advice they've given you. That's why I'd get rid of them, Mr. President -- not just Abu Ghraib." They said nothing. Just sat like big old bullfrogs on a log and looked at me.

Entire article here:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story?id=6185043

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[LynneSin]

2. That's my senator

Flawed but witty as hell. Heck Joe Biden would be more verbally eloquent after stubbing his big toe that Bush is for a State of the Union address

[4morewars]

3. "big old bullfrogs on a log"

Why is that no surprise ???

[Bronco69]

4. Biden may have told the magazine that's what he said

but I don't believe it for one iota of a nanosecond! First of all, I doubt that bush* would let Biden anywhere near the oval office, and didn't Capital Hill Blue report that bush* only surrounds himself with kkkarl rove and john asscrack, and that he generally doesn't talk to anyone anymore? If he is that paranoid, he certainly isn't going to let Biden in.

[JohnnyRingo]

5. Maybe not...As I think about it, what are the odds of Buxh asking advise

From any democrat?

I remember another story by Biden, on Daily Show I think, about Edwards "son of a mill worker" speech.

He said "I tried that once, and I'd be president today, but for the fact that there weren't any coal miners in my family"

He said "He's from Scranton...he figured there HAD to be one or two".

Political lies or not, I still like Joe, at least he can laugh at himself.

[teryang]

6. I heard him tell that same story months ago

Here's the better quote:

<Sen. Joseph Biden: I've been a senator through seven administrations, and this is by far the most divided one I've ever served with. The internal discord is rampant. It's not just Colin Powell, who has differed with Vice President Cheney at every turn. It isn't just Richard Clarke and the others on the intelligence team who have angrily defected. It's General Eric Shinseki, who was fired for telling the truth. It's Lawrence Lindsay, Bush's economic adviser, who was fired for saying the war was going to cost $200 billion. The price tag is even higher now, and still they submit a budget for 2005 without a single penny for Iraq. What in the hell is going on?>

[teryang]

7. Now here's Biden's BS domino theory:

<Biden: Very likely. If civil war breaks out in Iraq, the Sunni Triangle will become a snake pit and violence will spiral throughout the region. Within five years you'll see the emergence of another strongman in Iraq. Afghanistan will fall and become a new hotbed of terror. Radical Islamists will seize control in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and the same thing could occur in Iran, which will become the major power in the region.>

[G_j]

8. sort of ironic to see him interviewed in Rolling Stone

http://www.drugpolicy.org/drugbydrug/rave/

Anti-Rave Bills

Background

The RAVE Act which threatens to squash live music and free speech was passed earlier this year when it was tacked onto an unrelated child protection bill. Now there are two additional pieces of legislation being considered - the CLEAN-UP Act and the Ecstasy Awareness Act - that threaten to widen the laws to prosecute anyone who holds an event and fails to prevent illicit drug use.

Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) forced the controversial legislation, widely referred to as the "RAVE" Act, through both houses of Congress as an attachment to an unrelated child abduction - AMBER Alert bill (S151). "RAVE" Act had not passed a single committee this year. In addition, it was so controversial when it was introduced during the 107th Congress that two Senators withdrew their sponsorship. The "RAVE" Act makes it easier for the federal government to prosecute innocent business owners for the drug offenses of their customers - even if they take steps to stop such activity.

The "RAVE" Act attached to the AMBER Alert legislation passed both the House and the Senate despite the fact there had been no public hearing, debate or vote in Congress this year. Due to overwhelming opposition to the "RAVE" Act, legislators were forced to remove some of the most egregious language before it passed. For example, the word "rave" was removed from this version of the bill. Also, the original bill suggested that prosecutors should view the sale of water and the presence of glow-sticks or massage oil as evidence of drug use. These preposterous "findings" were removed in large part due to activists who sent nearly 30,000 faxes to their Senators between January and April 2003, urging them not to support such dangerous legislation. The AMBER Alert bill with the "RAVE" Act attachment was signed into law by President Bush on April 30, 2003. Click here for a legislative history of the RAVE Act.

The Consequences

The Rave Act has the force to stop licensed and law-abiding business owners from hosting events out of fear of massive fines and prison sentences. It would amend the federal "crack house law" to make it easier for federal prosecutors to fine and imprison business owners that fail to stop drug offenses from occurring. Businessmen and women could be prosecuted even if they were not involved in drugs - and even if they took steps to stop drug use on their property. Although proponents of the bill are seeking to target raves (and DJs, nightclub owners, and rave promoters have the most to fear), the law would apply to any business owner, including bar owners, motel owners, concert promoters, and cruise ship owners. Because of its broad language, the proposed law would even potentially subject people to twenty years in federal prison if guests smoked marijuana at their party or barbecue.


<snip>

[JohnnyRingo]

9. I had NO IDEA he was involved in the "Rave Act"

This is more ignorant than "Tipper's" album rating law.

That costs him quite a bit of respect.....Thanx