ca 40 years of disinformation about the 60s- drugs, free love, self-indulg

[bobbieinok]

ent.

In reality, the 60s was the Civil Rights Movement, the Women's Movement, the wareness that the govt needs to be constantly watched and questioned.

The RW thinks it's finally in the position to win back everything they lost in the 60s.

[deutsey]

1. They're trying to win back everything they lost in the '30s...

:evilfrown:

[papau]

2. True ......

:-(

[Cleita]

3. How about trying to take us back to the eleventh century?

[Kanary]

15. that far, Cleita? ^_^ Dennis Kucinich said,

about the PNAC, "What they didn't tell us was that the century they had in mind was the 16th."

:hi:

New American Century, indeedy.

Kanary

[Cleita]

31. Dennis was wrong.

The sixteenth actually was about new ideas, the Rennaissance fer crissakes! But I will allow Dennis a little error in history. :-)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. I've never seen a truer post.

[proud patriot]

4. My dad said it was Meth that killed the 60s here in the Bay Area

Truly it was about Civil Rights , but for some
it was only about sex drugs and rock n roll .

Then meth was introduced brought in by Bikers
and ruined the whole thing according to my father .

So called Yuppies moved from meth to coke in the 70s
got guilt in the 80s and turned fundie even though
they still party .

I studied this era extensively, and lots of mistakes
were made . Not to accept this is to not learn from it .

Even my Hero Abbie Hoffman made mistakes .

I shall "Carry On" GenX Metal/Punk Head that I am .

[deutsey]

7. I recommend everyone read "Acid Dreams"

a history of the CIA, LSD, and the '60s. Very well researched, engaging, and somewhat disturbing.

http://www.levity.com/aciddreams/

[G_j]

30. I second that

that is an eye-opening book for sure.

[Cleita]

8. Being a young woman in that era, I always thought

the kids in it for the drugs, sex and rock n' roll, weren't true counter revolutionaries. I turned out to be right when they went on to become Yuppies and Republicans. The rest of us are still fighting for equality, freedom and the same rights for everyone.

[proud patriot]

24. My dad has kept up the struggle all this time and he raised me into it

and look at me now . I haven't read acid dreams
but my own family experience could be a book .

My moms youngest sister entered the scene just to
party . My mom and dad protested on moral conviction
while my moms older brother was fighting in Veitnam .
My dads brother got to serve in the national guard .

I was born in the middle of it all .

[Kanary]

36. Your family certainly covered the spectrum. ^_^

Did the tensions in society at large play out in your family?

Do you know what your grandparents take was on it all?

I'm trying to think if I know of many families who weren't somehow affected by all the tension. I guess maybe my ex's family... they were New Left before there *was* a New Left, so I don't think any of the upheaval bothered them at all.

My parents, on the other hand, freaked out like proper parents were supposed to. :)

Kanary

[proud patriot]

37. Both sets of grandparents were turned off to the whole anti-war civil

rights struggle .

Both of my grandfathers served and had careers in the
millitary . One was an officer one was not . One was a
fighter one was a paper pusher . Both my mom and dad
spent time growing up overseas .

[DemBones DemBones]

33. "Plastic hippies" is what we called them. They bought

their tie-dyes and bells in the same department stores where they'd previously bought their button-downs and hiney-binders.

[Kanary]

16. Having been there, I know there were two seperate groups.

The "hippies", and the "politicos".

The hippies were as you described, and were zoned out a lot of the time.

The politicos were very busy, because there were so many actions going on all the time. Yes, there was grass around, and probably stronger stuff, but a lot of us never even saw any of it, because we were always working on political projects.

And, you're absolutely right, there were a lot of mistakes. After all, most of us were quite young, and didn't have any background in such stuff.

What saddens me is that so many now aren't willing to learn from our mistakes, and do it differently now.

ONe thing we had absolutely right, though, and I was just talking with someone about this today...... All the different political groups WORKED TOGETHER. Yes, we women had to fight against the men at first, because there was so much sexism, b ut when we women started working together, and started making our own power, there were lots of men who supported us and helped us. When the Indians had a rally at Alcatraz, a bunch of us would troop over there to support them. When the Black Panthers had something in Oakland they wanted support for, there would always be a group of us who would go there. We knew what community was, and we knew we needed each other.

I see none of that anymore. Everyone seems to have their own cause, and never the twain shall meet.

The RW has successfully splintered us. We cooperated in it.

Kanary

[zeemike]

17. Your dad was right

But not just there in the Bay area. I saw it happen too.

[Kanary]

21. He was right, and he was wrong.

There were two different groups.

Kanary

[zeemike]

25. Basically yes

The Hippies went "back to the land" and for the most part were no threat to the establishment.
With the Peace and freedom fighters the establishment worked their mischief on them and pretty soon we have the SLA and Charles Manson.

[Kanary]

27. goodness...... that's a lot of brush you're using there.......

~~chortle~~

I was around "hippies" in San Fran, so there wasn't much land there for them to "go back to". Yeah, there were those who got land and tried communes, but certainly not all..... or even many.

And it's really hilarious to think alll the "peace and freedom fighters" went to SLA and Manson.

~~shaking head~~

Either you're pulling my leg, or you're woefully misinformed, or you're looking to see what dust you can raise.

Kanary

[zeemike]

29. It is the best I could do with a couple of sentences.

Broad for sure
But I was pointing out how things went wrong, not how things went right. and there were many cases where it did go right.
But the fact is that the Conservatives did win,as our current resident in the white House testifies to. And we learn from our mistakes as well as our surceases.
But I would say that there were many because I was one of them that had that dream and I found many already there when I arrived. Probably everyone that read Mother Earth News had the dream at least.
And Manson and The SLA were criminals let out of Jail early to cause mischief in the revolutionary movement.
But perhaps someday someone will write a history of it all and be more forthcoming than I could ever be.

[Beam Me Up]

39. We need to know more about what happened to them in prison.

For example, where did that exaggerated, militaristic leftest rhetoric espoused by SLA Field Marshal Cinque originate? Apparently his strong interest in this subject developed in a State Controlled context. Do we really KNOW what goes on in those institutions?

The SLA's first political act that brought them to public attention was the assassination of a BLACK school board superintendent. Now I ask you what KIND of "revolutionary" act is that? Such events, picked up and promulgated through the media (and once Patti was abducted it went on for months) really got all of us, I think, sick and tired of hearing about "crazy" lefty ideas like "free food" and "Death to the fascist insect that preys upon the life of the people."

Ummmm..... and I get confused. Was this before, during or after Nixon's was forced from office?


http://www.claykeck.com/patty/bio/cinque.htm

Edit: typo

[zeemike]

41. I'm with you on that

We need to know more, and perhaps someone will do the necessary work to bring it all together into a book or something.
My cynical mind thinks the powers that be dumped those criminals on the street for a reason. But how could we know that without doing the research?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Does anyone remember the '50s?

Segregation, McCarthy, HUAC, conformity, women kept in their place, back-alley abortions, air raid drills, poverty, union busting, censorship, lousy music.

To name just a few things that we of the '60s generation consigned to the dust bin.

[TrogL]

6. Yes

The music alone makes me feel :scared::cry::scared::cry::scared::cry:

[Yupster]

10. Yeah thank god for the 60's

No more poverty.

[DemBones DemBones]

34. And no more war. Plus we saved the Earth.

Damn! :cry:

[misanthrope]

12. Hold on there, Hoss...

There was some incredible art, of all types, being produced in the 1950s. Music, plastic arts, film, literature, dance, theater, you name it, there was great stuff going on then. I dare say there was much or more artistic ground being broken then as in any decade of the half-century since. Granted, "the mainstream" wasn't into a lot of it, but when are they ever?

You've got Pleasantville syndrome. You're thinking of the popularized, mythologized version of the 50s. However, if one checks into statistics about actual life then, you'll find it doesn't quite own up to "Father Knows Best." Read "The Way We Never Were" by sociologist Stephanie Coontz.

Every decade, every period, has its benefits and detriments.

And "lousy music"? Puh-lease.

I guess Ray Charles pales beside Herman's Hermits. Chuck Berry can't rock like The Monkees. Muddy Waters isn't nearly as genuine as the Bay City Rollers. Miles Davis and John Coltrane can't hold a candle to The Captain and Tenille.

[merh]

18. I agree with you about the 50's and the arts.

I love music of all eras (though most country music since Patsy Kline and Hank Williams Sr drives me crazy).

However, the Bay City Rollers and the Cap'n & Tenille were the 70's. I think the 70's music left a good many people wondering.

The Monkeys were the middle of the 60's and the Herman Hermits towards the end.

[misanthrope]

28. Oh, I know...

...I started to list artists from the subsequent decades in order to clarify my point, but just decided to stop after the 70s.

[zeemike]

19. I was a teen ager in the 50s

Most of what you say is true but not the lousy music
Rock and roll started in the fifties and some of the rhythm and blues groups influenced the Stones and the Beatles.
Have you forgotten Little Richard, Sam Cook, The Platers and on and on.
Your apologies will be graciously accepted.

[eleny]

9. The shrub's a poster child for that characterization

Drugs - free love - self indelgent.... sounds like him.

[Yupster]

11. Bad public relations

"Turn on, tune in, drop out"

"Sex, drugs and rock and roll"

Not the best advertizing slogans looking back at it, but it was fun while it lasted.

[SOS]

13. Except that the expression

"Sex and drugs and rock n roll" was the title of an Ian Drury song released in 1977.

[TheSickEmpire]

14. One time I was mimiking the 60s and hippies

doing the peace sign, saying groovey, bugging my eyes out and stuff like that. I thought I was being funny.

My mom (dmr) jumped all over me. "Where did I get THAT idea?" she wanted to know. I dunno, I said. "THAT's what the media WANT you to believe", she told me. She told me about how it was to be a young woman back then, the war, civil rights, assasinations, pollution,you name it, she said it.

She told me to instead of thinking her generation was about free love to remember it really was about free thinking and that the time since then has been about stopping people to think on their own.

My generation (i'm 15) doesn't get to see or hear what your generation did. We don't hear other ideas. We hear only what a group of people decided what we get to hear. Mom calls it dumbing down.

I guess it gets pretty messy for the big guys when we think on our own.

[Kanary]

20. You're very fortunate to have a mom who experience a lot of that.

I hope you will take the opportunity to ask her about it, and listen to her stories. It was a very powerful time, and there are so many things to find out about.

I know it may not seem that way to you now, and probably seems like ancient history, but you havenothing to lose by asking her to tell you about it, and maybe a whole lot to gain.

I was very fortunate a number of years ago to have an elderly neighbor who fought in WWI, and told me about it, and about comng back and being a "hobo" because there were no jobs, and then being in a union, and getting beatem just for wearing a union button, and working with Mother Jones in organizing. It was all fascinating, and very eye-opening. I very much appreciate that I had that opportunity, and wish now that I had asked more questions, and written some of it down.

I hope you listen to the stories while you have the chance.

Kanary

[zeemike]

22. Your mom is right n/t

[proud patriot]

26. There are great resources out there to show you

With your moms help You can learn all about it .

I had to read and watch documentaries .

I was blessed to be able to hear Abbia Hoffman
speak before he died .

I got to listen to Betty Freidan , Dr. Spock.
Timmothy Leary was a trip though he spoke to
younger people in the room about Acid etc....

Many other muscians and speakers but all their
work is still around .

It was a great dream they had .

[MisterP]

32. and those evil, evil unwashed protesters

ve must krush dem! how dare they scream at our limousines as we go to promote war and neocolonalism? those horrid screamers will come around to our way of thought once they grrrow up! *suppresses Roman salute, biting arm*
Another ball of tripe sold to those cheering on the Hard Hats and William Calley.

[Swamp Rat]

35. We're on the verge of a new human rights movement

Cleita is right. Bush&Co want to take us back to the 11th century... they were a thousand years off in predicting the Rapture, but at this moment they are actively trying to rectify this by bringing it on. If we survive the coup of 2000-4, the pendulum will swing back in our favor, perhaps better than the outcome of the 60s.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Warren DeMontague]

40. Yes, because we're so much better off when everyone is

sexually repressed up the ying-yang, smoking cigarettes and drinking like a fish (but staying away from that evil weed) and pissed off and scowlingly prune-faced because they haven't remember the last time they actually had a good time.

Even if the so-called hippies in the 60s did do a lot of screwing and a messload of drugs, so what? At least they weren't dropping napalm on villages. I mean, what is the real obscenity? People being "self-indulgent", or people running around blowing each other up? Seems to me we've got billions of uptight, repressed, angry mofo's on this planet-- and the one thing they are all pathologically incapable of doing, it seems, is showing themselves a good time.

I'm gonna go out on a limb, here, and say we could use a bit more genuine self-indulgence. And, no, people being greedy and raping the environment is not what I'm talking about. The excessive need to over-consume is another symptom of a culture where many people wouldn't know genuine joy if it smacked them upside the head with a 2x4-- hence they try to fill the void with "stuff", because that's what the advertisers tell them will solve their problems.