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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:14 AM
Original message
Please explain something to me...
I've been watching John Bolton and a bunch of neocons on C-SPAN trying to explain why Iran is so evil we need to do something about it very soon--what he hasn't said.

I know I've read that neocons were all liberals or Ds who underwent some sort of epiphany and got in touch with their inner Darth. How does one go from liberalism to neoconservative? I don't understand the mental gymnastics you need to do to reconcile these vastly different beliefs.
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. It was, in part,
Edited on Wed Aug-18-04 10:21 AM by nownow
a fear of the 'communist threat' and a feeling among some of the more hawkish Dems in the seventies that their party was moving too far to the left -- here's a book review that goes into some of it:

http://yalepress.yale.edu/YupBooks/viewbook.asp?isbn=0300060254

On edit: I've also read some things in Harper's and other liberal publications going into the history of this, and of course the book above probably is more detailed than the review.
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Thanks. I didn't know there was a book that explained it. I didn't . . .
realize there was almost a movement that caused this either. Interesting.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Money and Position
Just look at where these people are now compared to where they were when they could be considered human beings.

I'm willing to bet that the epiphany they had was filled with dollar signs and lucrative jobs. Or they could just be lying about what they were.
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. exactly right....
With the insecurities in the world today....the potential to have your job lost tomorrow...that your family will be literally out in the streets based on any number of factors that are beyond your control.....money talks louder and louder these days....

At work we have a pay level at which 99% of the people instantly turn into A-holes. We have a theory of how it works, but since they are exempt from publishing any true figures on bonuses from our union!!!! they keep things hidden from the general workforce.

But put this into perspective and you have to have a true appreciation for a Kerry, Edwards, a Clark...et al that have the guts and the confiction to stare this stuff in the face....in some of the worse times of our history...and keep on speaking for the people.....
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think this is a little too broad ...
I think neo cons are a smaller and more dangerous group than what you are referring to. They are a small group of intellectuals and policy makers with very similar histories, not just everyone who changes from progressive to conservative.
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Watch that one and visit.....
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north180.html

The roots may be intellectual....but that's certainly not where we are today....and where they are taking us....

Think of it this way....if you are dumb enough to follow today's neoconservative movement....its goals and its ambitions....does that mean you're smart?

You'll find that today's "movement" is vast....it follows money....it believes in military domination.....it's entrenched in our present admin....it is expoused in my opinion everyday by Limbaugh and others....

It is NOT conservativism.......don't confuse that with Limbaughism or ditto heads.....they are NOT conservatives....they DO NOT believe in what is best for society.....

It is the neocon movement that has melded very effectively with Reaganomics and brought us to where we are today in terms of teetering on the edge of economic and world sanity....it is the neocons....and how the "dumbing down" of America goes so magically along with it.....that has gotten us to this historical F up in history.

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. But you are not describing neo-conservatives
I agree that the Republican party project is not conservative. But that does not mean it is neo-conservative.

Neo-conservatives are a very very small group of intellectuals who mainly influece the administration on foreign policy. Please look at my earlier post (and the replies to it) to understand exactly what neo-cons are.

They are far more dangerous and insidious than the bulk of the conservative movement.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Post script ...
Rockwell's analysis, which you cite, is very confused and not very accurate.

Rockwell doesn't seem to understand that neo-cons were not part of the conservative movement AT ALL until the late 1960s through the 1980s. And he doesn't understand their fundamentally conspiratorial methods, which they carried over from their Trotskyite days.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wouldn't think it was "all"
But I imagine there are people who have fallen victim to the fear tactics as well as the well-oiled Lie Machine. Example - my daughter. Brought up by me, very liberal, very political, I've talked to my kids from a young age about social responsibility and the importance of maintaining our freedoms. As a teenager, she was following in mom's footsteps very well (she led a walkout in protest of policies at her high school and was pictured on the front page of the newspaper - 20 years after I'd done the same. I was so proud).

Anyway, she met up with a guy from Kansas (need I say more? No offense to any Kansans here), got brainwashed by his bizarre views and fell into the whole fear thing after 9/11. She's a big time Bush supporter now. I'm crushed.

My younger daughter, 22, is still going strong as a liberal Dem. Yay!
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. As they get older and start to make more money . . .
they start to get very, very greedy. They had never made enough money before to have that feeling. Then, when they see how taxes eat out a chunk of their money, they get angry. They believe it's the Democrats fault because they "always" raise the taxes, at least that is what they are always told. Only the Republican party can be their savior and help them to keep their money. Finally, they decide that they are right about everything, and then they hear other people talking about the same things and then they have that epiphany. They must be one of the most intelligent individuals they know. After all, people are starting to think the way they do. Finally, when they get a Republican in the White House and they get that tax cut, they no longer have a conscious. Screw society and those without. They need to work hard like they have and get off their sorry butts. That is what America is all about . . . Capitalism, not socialism. Finally they sell their souls to worship at their alter of greed, arrogance, and hypocrisy that they have created for themselves . . . and they think that the world is finally right.

(That's the way I see it anyway)
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I hate that line... my Repug relatives always told me
when you are older you will see things the way (republican way) we do.

The older I have become the more wiser and "liberal" I have become. The more responsibilities I have taken on like grad school, career, marriage, child.... all the more liberal and active in politics (democratic) I have become.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. It was fashionable to call yourself liberal in the 60s
Edited on Wed Aug-18-04 10:27 AM by Warpy
to speak out against Vietnam, in favor of civil rights. Some of the committment was an inch deep and a mile wide. As the fashion changed with the discrediting of Carter (who was a southern conservative and no liberal) and the election of Reagan, so changed the fashionable.

That's certainly part of it. Some of the neocons, like David Horowitz, were actually out there spouting quasi Marxist rhetoric. We really didn't trust them then, and we trust them less now. One wonders if they weren't all poseurs, trying to get hippie chicks because the YAF crowd were all squeaky clean and hard to make.

In any case, who knows why these guys went from one extreme to another, and who honestly cares? In any case, I honestly don't think most of the neocon parade were anything but what they are now, people who want power above all, and will do whatever they have to do to get it.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I was struggling to put together my thoughts on this topic, only to find
that you have done it better than I would have.

Heyyy--YAF (Young American Fascists)--are they still around. Haven't heard a thing about them in ages. Thought maybe they lost their raison d'etre somewhere after the Reagan Putsch.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. I read an article a while back
about Conservatives (not neocons) and how a lot of them were Liberals in the 60's, marched with MLK, etc. and did all that stuff. According to this article they wanted rights for minorities and women to be written into the law but felt that that was as far as it should go. These Conservatives believe that things like affirmative action are counterproductive to true equality because it gives treatment that is not equal but preferential to women and minorities. And that true equality means you are treated equal under the law but not given any special treatment. I suppose in theory that makes sense. But the trouble with this thinking is that theory doesn't always work out to be reality.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. "Getting in touch with their inner Darth"
So very common to all Totalitarian Nations, not just our newfangled version of it.

I cannot imagine what makes a person do that, but I am guessing a good bit of marketing strategy and Hitler-style public relations must go into it.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. A very long post about the historical details..
First of all, I think, it is very important to keep in mind that the current generation of neocons did not have a conversion experience -- their parents did. These younguns have always been conservative, so it's probably not really accurate to call them neocons, except that they carry on the intellectual tradition of their parents, the real neocons.

It is shocking how many of them owe their current positions to what is basically nepotism. For example, William Kristol is the son of Irving Kristol. Elliot Abrahms is the son in law of Midge Decter and Norman Podhoretz. It goes on and on.

Now about the parents' generation, who actually experienced conversion (which is what your question is about). Many of them were what was called "cold war liberals." This was actually very common and has its roots in the 1930s. At the time, it was still respectable to be a socialist, Marxist or even a communist in the USA in the New Deal era, especially the young. The people who would become neo cons were generally first generation college educated "white ethnics" -- Jewish, Irish, eastern Europeans, Catholics. Many were associated with City College of New York, an elite, but free university in the city. As young idealists and the children of unionized Marxist workers, many were socialists, communists, Marxists, Trotskyites, etc.

But many "fellow travelers" of the communists discovered that the hard core Communist Party was hostile to individual freedom. The party enforced rigid and sometimes illogical discipline, taking its orders from the ruthless Stalinist communist party of the Soviet Union. The worst example was that the communists at first despised the Nazis; then when Stalin signed the Hitler Stalin pact, Party members were told to embrace the Nazis; then when Hitler double crossed Stalin and attacked Russia they were told to hate the Nazis again. Many, many people dropped out of the party because of this, not just neo cons, but intellectuals worldwide, as diverse as Richard Wright and George Orwell.

Many Marxists, socialists and Trotskyites abandoned the party right then and there. After the war, German-Jewish refugee intellectuals, like Franz Nauman, wrote ground breaking political science books that basically identified the way that Nazism and Stalinism, despite their differences on the left-right spectrum, were basically the same; they tried to control thought and completely dominate society through secrecy, conspiracy, lying and discipline. They identified the political concept of "totalitarianism" and pressed the idea that the Soviet Union's communism was as bad or worse than Hitler's Nazism. These intellectuals identified the fact that for communists, the ends justtify the means; they would be a relentless and amoral foe of democracy and individual liberty, and other values which liberals cherished.

These intellectuals emerged from the war as virulent anti-communist leftists. They helped create a consensus in the dominant Democratic Party of the era of "cold war liberalism," that is evident in Truman and especially Kennedy. One of the big battle grounds was Latin America where it was perceived that communists were trying to take over labor unions. (Hence the obsession years later in the 1980s with Nicaragua and El Salvador.) But the cold war liberals were still liberals -- fighting communism in Latin America with American style unions, but also violence and thuggery to combat communist violence and thuggery.

The soon to be neocons tended to continue using Marxist and Trotskyite tactics, even as they abandoned those beliefs -- organizing, secrecy, message discipline, conspiracy, and networking. They became enamored of violence overseas to combat communist violence.

What changed the cold war liberals' values to conservative was the 60s -- especially four factors that caused them to cease being liberals altogether.

First was that the 60s (white) progressive movement was not at all impressed with their elders and vice versa. This was the so called new left. It embraced cultural issues like the hippies, racial issues like civil rights and were generally kind of wild looking compared to the button down cold war liberals. The cold war liberals, true to their Marxist roots, were primarily concerned with class and economics, not racial justice and cultural change. They hated free love, rock and roll, "be ins", drugs, long hair and all the other styles we associate with the 60s political movement.

Second the soon to be neocons turned against the civil rights movement. While they generally embraced Martin Luther King, they thought that the "black power" movement after his death was anti-white, communistic, totalitarian and anti-American. They also were horrified by the riots of the 60s as the civil rights movement fell apart. They associated black people with crime and disorder. Hence the old cliche that a neo con was a liberal who had been mugged. The neocons could not understand why black people could not pull themselves up by their bootstraps like their immigrant Irish, Jewish and European parents. The neocons began writing frankly racist stuff about black Americans being simply unable to do what white enthics had done. An example was (Democrat) Daniel Patrick Moynihan's famous report to his (Republican) boss Nixon that the black family was hopelessly dysfunctional and unable to produce competent children and that the best policy the federal government could pursue toward urban problems would be "benign neglect."

As civil rights moved from the south to the north to integrate urban white ethnic communities, the neo cons generally waged a backlash against desegregation, or mourned how blacks and hispanics had "ruined" their old neighborhoods, like East New York Brooklyn, Brownsville, and the Bronx, and vowed to draw the line. Also they hated the demands that were being made on white-run educational bureaucracies in black neighborhoods, where many neocons had their day jobs.

Third, the issue of Israel turned them against the general anti-colonial left. They became defense hawks around the issue of the middle east, especially the 1967 war. Many of them, like Richard Perle continued to be Democrats, but congregated around the almost fanatically pro-Israel Democrat, Henry "Scoop" Jackson. This also
further alienated them from the African American and Latino communities, and the New Left, which was sympathetic to decolonization in Asia, Africa and Latin America and which began to equate Israel with continued colonial authority (the West Bank) and with South Africa. Israel went from being an example of a socialist third world developing country aligned with the likes of India, Nigeria or Brazil to a militarized garrison state whose only allies were the US and South Africa.

Fourth, the neo cons redoubled their concern with the Soviets. Many were either Jewish or eastern European (eg Polish like Zbigniew Brezinski) and wanted to press the Soviets ever harder on Jewish immigration to Israel and loosening the grip on the Warsaw Pact countries of Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia.

Their intellectual realignment from liberal to conservative was complete by the election of 1980. Just as Reagan captured blue collar and white ethnic Democrats, as a backlash against the 60s, black power, "anti-American" sympathy for decolonizing countries like Vietnam, etc., the neocons were the intellectual component of that switch.

These neocon parents however, raised a generation of children who were exposed mainly to the conservative era of their thinking and who heard that their parents' Marxist and liberal pasts were a mistake or folly of youth. The younger generation, that first got high jobs in government during the Reagan administration, inherited their parents tactics of Marxist organization, secrecy, conspiracy, networking and power grabs, but little of the nuanced thinking. The younger generation, in other words are more or less RW thugs and conspirators.

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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Excellent Reply
Edited on Wed Aug-18-04 12:34 PM by Cats Against Frist
And you touched on a lot of what I was going to explain -- but I was going to explain how the idea of "empire building" is nether a right, nor left phenomenon, but a totalitarian characteristic, which can come from either the right or the left -- much as you illustrated in the Stalin/Hitler example.

The idea of "pre-emptive war," "Pax Americana," or hegemony, or whatever one wants to call it, stands in direct opposition to the tenets of classical liberalism, so lovingly espoused by those on the right. This explains the split between the paleocon-type Pat Buchanan Republicans and the Neocons. The idea that one should "spread democracy," runs contrary to Mises definition of classical liberalism, which assumes only the right to personal property, freedom and peace.

The neocon philosophy is something highly different from either traditional conservatism or the qualities of the left. One interesting note is that DOMESTIC policy takes a backseat to foreign policy, and it could be said that IF the neocons did not have to manipulate the populace with cultural supremacisma and religion to back up their cause, they would be FRIENDLY to socialist-type programs. Philosophically, this is muddled, however, by the fact that the natural allies of the neoconservatives are the corpo-fascists in the government that seek to, and have, used foreign policy as a corporate arm -- and in the second generation, they've blended together, even welcoming those who support Dominionism and Christian Reconstruction. Irving Kristol wrote an article -- sorry, I don't know where to find it -- attempting to simultaneously deny the existence of neoconservatism, and yet explain it, at the same time. One key point was that he was specifically trying, though protesting too much, that the neoconservatives "were always concerned with religion in society, and traditional values," as damage control against the paleocon charge that they were "Israeli sympathizers."

To understand the neocons, you have to understand the fragile balance of the GOP, and how despite the claims of the most "freedom-loving" freeper, that between the disregard for the Constitution, a cultural supremacist narrative, theology, pre-emptive foreign policy and corporate control of government -- it is actually starting to meld into what I would say is a pre-fascist philosophy that departs, entirely, from the tenets of classical liberalism that spawned "conservatism," in the first place.

There is a distinct difference between libertarian philosophy, and the philsophy of the neocon GOP, and the paleocons lie somewhere in betweeen.

The point you made about "second-generation" neocons is VERY important, because in the second-generation, all three major components of the GOP: corpo-fascists, neocons and theocons have overlapped, and spawned, what I call "prototypes," -- the walking, breathing, constructed conclusion of the philosophies: those who are now referred to, within the GOP, as "conservatives," compared to your more familiar Republicans, who are called "moderates." The people over at FR have repeatedly ripped on the moderates, who I would suggest represent "mainstream" conservatives -- most of your friends and neighbors, who seem otherwise normal, and a little conservative -- while the "conservatives" represent the far-right, pre-fascist element.

Problem is, the far-right is more powerful -- the neocons are brilliant and the corpo-fascists have more money, and they are making inroads in not just the party, but within the nation, using their talk radio attack dogs to make echo chambers out of the heads of those of us who have the psychological tendencies for fear, totalitarian mindsets and the need for a "strong leader."

These people are dangerous -- and the moderates, the libertarians, and the entire left need to band together to nip this shit in the bud, immediately. In my opinion, THAT is what this election is about, and why it is so important.


***edited: The question is -- how do you explain any of this to your run-of-the-mill freeper, who is NOT one of the fascists, but seem to stick with them, because the GOP has tricked them into thinking that their party is "the party of less government," or whatever? This is the million-dollar question.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The GOP as a party of opportunists
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. It really worries me that so very few people on a generally thoughtful board like DU really understand what the neocons are.

And you are right that you have to understand the composition of the GOP to understand their influence and transformation -- especially with the second generation.

One way of understanding the GOP is that it is basically a vehicle for corporate greed -- and the greed of the very, very rich. But the very rich are ver small minority. So the GOP has to attract assorted groups that really have little in common. It throws iedological bones to highly motivated voters on issues that have little to do with the real mission of the GOP -- corporate aggrandizement -- and those groups include Christian fundamentalists, abortion fanatics, Israel-first zionist fanatics, racists, "black helicopter" UN paraniods, and so on.

But what does a very wealthy corporate exec from Greenwhich Connecticut have in common? Almost nothing. So you are right, the party is becoming pre-racist by weaving together a really illogical, anti-reality ideology to keep these groups together. The ideology is so illogical, that it must appeal to magical thinking rather than logic or empirical inquiry.

It goes something like this: God is the ultimate authority for all questions, political, social and cultural. God is the God of Christians and Jews only. God shows his favor and approval on people and nations through bestowing riches. God therefore manifestly loves America, because it is rich, and especially the rich people within it. Anyone who does not believe God loves America is unpatriotic. Capitalism is part of God's plan, because capitalism makes people rich. Leftists, including Democrats, are not simply wrong about policy, but evil because they oppose capitalism, which is God's will. God's will will be revealed when Jesus returns shortly, in Jerusalem. To hasten Jesus return, America must help Israel against all its enemies. As for the Arabs they have a choice -- convert or die -- with conversion not being religious conversion, but conversion to capitalism, "democracy" and the American-Israel alliance.

I think the role of the second generation neocons is that they don't really believe any of this stuff, but inserted some of their ideas into the growing fascist consensus in order to achieve their goals. I think their main goals revolve around expanding US military power into an empire, and protecting Israel. They don't see that these may be incompatible.

What is most worrying about the neocons is not their policy -- it's their tactics, which they have inherited almost directly from the Trotskyite cells that their parents participated in.

I'm not sure how to get across to the traditional Republicans what is going on -- other than through the disastrous fruits of the neocon and broader crypto fascist modern republican foreign policy.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Excellent posts: the core of the Neoconservative IS his magical thinking.
You are correct in that the highest eschelon of the Neoconservatives has little of nothing to do with Right Wing idealism; if this were not absolutely true, then the methodology of "winning by intimidation" linked with their insatiable greed would not work. The theocratic nature of their New Fascism is the proof.

The brainwashing of the public has been no less than masterful. Take the Bush family as the ultimate in example for how well this has worked. During the 2000 election, Bush had the slavish support of the "Family Values/Anit-Choice" coalition, but he said almost nothing of substance on either topic. His family, from his hit-and-run wife to his fake ID daughters to his fraud practicing siblings and their dysfuntional children, shows the power of these illusions; "Mom and Apple Pie" used as political buckler and shield.

The biggest problem is the delusion of the public through this brainwashing. A shift in gas prices, followed by unemployment brought down Jimmy Carter; there was little doubt this would happen. But the public, fantasizing about "tax cuts" as if they were winning lottery tickets, believing in the new "Divine Right of Kings" as an outgrowth of their personal religion, combined with the sound bite/heavy hand/might makes right of the Neoconservatives, makes a happy marching army.

This bandwagon is almost impossible to overturn. The big question for some of us is this: Rome fell, the British Empire is no more, the Soviet Union is gone; perhaps it is now our time. All of these empires committed the ultimate unforgiveable sin of the imperialist: HUBRIS. The "King of the Hill" only exists for as long as it takes to knock him off. The European Union has surpassed us in GNP, and still retains most of its social safety nets; are they the new 800 pound gorilla? Who can say, but if not, it is only a matter of time.

The new Fascism is well entrenched, and I personally think it is folly to believe it can be easily stopped. Perhaps the barricades must be manned again.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Just a bit of a disagreement...
And that is, that the kind of magical thinking I was referring to in my post was the crypto-fascist, religious thinking that Republicans are using to paper over their differences to keep their coalition together.

Generally, while I disagree with neo-cons, they have not been known for engaging in magical thinking in the past.

Generally neo-cons have been ruthlessly logical and analytical, rather than religious and magical.

However, in the last several years, they engaged in their own brand of magical thinking -- namely that Iraq would magically become democratic and that the boulevards of Baghdad would be lined with people throwing flowers and handing out sweets.

On the other hand, if we take Wolfowitz at face value -- that he acknowledges it was necessary to lie to get us into a war with Iraq -- it is entirely possible that the neo-cons WEREN'T engaged in magical thinking about a friendly democracy emerging in Iraq, but were just lying. They perhaps had other goals in mind and either wanted a long, violent, murderous, horrible occupation in Iraq or as Al Franken likes to say, they just "didn't care."

But much as we disagree with them, neo-cons generally don't engage in magical thinking; they are masters of real politik.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Thank you for taking the time to write this history
of the neocons. It was very helpful. I appreciate the time you took and the work that went into it.
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Fascinating.
Where can I read more?
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Here is a sort of turning point essay ...
Follow the link to Podhoretz's famous essay, "My Negro Problem -- and Ours." He is still sympathetic to the civil rights movement (after all, it is only 1963), but he admits that he "hates Negroes".

http://www.lukeford.net/Images/photos/out.pdf
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. And here ...
This is a very sad, recent essay by a former coleague of Podhoretz who realizes that Podhoretz's mind has completely closed off to all his old ideas and nuance, and is simply and solely a bitter Israel/Sharon firster. The title is a play on words one the famous Negro Problem essay:

http://www.antiwar.com/mcconnell/mc040202.html
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bottled water. Poisoned with mind-altering drugs.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. Google "Leo Strauss"
Then google "strauss wolfowitz"
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