Eyewitness to Florida hurricane body count.

[peabody71]

FL Eyewitness Death Count
Close To 400 Now
More from Michael Edward
Rumor Mill News Agents Forum
8-17-4


What an eye awakening day this was. I thought that I had seen it all
having been involved from Viet Nam to the beginning of Desert Storm in
my military and civilian law enforcement career, but today I learned
about a new part of the shame game.

For those who won,t bother to read all this report, let me spell out
the body counts that 6 of us (all retired military and/or law
enforcement) went out to confirm today in different areas. These are
confirmed bodies in the trucks, restaurant refers, or refer vans, and
they are NOT 'missing persons' or animals:

Charlotte Harbor areas - 58 dead as of 5pm today; Fort Myers & the
barrier islands - 21 deaths as of 3pm today; Punta Gorda - 275+ deaths
and escalating each hour; Desoto County - 36 deaths, expected to
increase;

These figures came from our own eyes, medical personnel, various county
sheriff's deputies, and eye witnesses or residents from the worst
devastated areas. CNN and the rest of the world biased and controlled
media are fooling none of us who live here. The current CONFIRMED body
count in our 3 county area on the west coast of Florida is near 400 as
I write this.

[ClintonTyree]

1. The Rumor Mill.................

is just that, a rumor mill. I would not take this seriously. There is absolutely no way the media could or would cover up such carnage.

[anarchy1999]

5. www.rumormillnews.com

take it all with a grain a salt, but there is lots to be had there. Michael has been posting since the morning after. Rense is just reposting/mirroring what is being posted there.

Michael is for real or he would not be posting his real name, please not he is asking for nothing, just trying to keep the masses informed.

on edit: You have to go to above link and then go to "reading room".

[seabeyond]

11. a friend living right out of there said 260

so a political and not a gossip monger, rumor mill

i too question. and is right, that we could distrust bushco and media to even believe this is possible is sad in itself

[anarchy1999]

75. Today's update from Michael

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=54222

Hello America,

The human spirit is an amazing force of power, compassion, and strength. I am amazed at what is happening around us. It is NOT any government or agency group that has taken on the crux of the relief efforts here: The AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE THE PRIMARY RELIEF EFFORT.

Since yesterday, privately owned pick-up trucks, vans, and utility trailers filled with food, water, tarps, gasoline, generators, candles, and all sorts of other needed items, have been arriving at neighborhoods freely distributing everything they have. I spoke with a man who came from Georgia with 12 new generators and new 5 gallon gas cans for each one, all filled with gas. He and his neighbors pitched in and bought all that equipment. No-one asked them to, they just did it.

snip:
I spoke with 2 soldiers from a National Guard road security patrol yesterday afternoon. They confirmed to me that the body count being at least 400 (as I reported in an earlier update) was much lower than the current count. I was told to look for “ice company delivery trucks” parked near, but not at, the destroyed mobile home parks and badly destroyed housing neighborhoods. “People simply think they’re delivering badly needed ice, but they’re not moving from their parking places for a reason.” There is no doubt that the deaths here are far higher than even what we have been able to find out for ourselves in different areas. The major question is this: Why and for what purpose is this not being reported by the government or the mainstream media? Every Floridian and American should be demanding that the truth be told.

The Florida National Guard is in charge of Sanibel and Captiva Islands. We learned about this from the NG patrol right before Tom Ridge arrived in Ft. Myers. How nice that they are protecting the mansions and multi-million dollar homes while less influential neighborhoods – where the great majority of Americans live and where the worst destruction took place - have yet to see an Army Humvee on their street. I guess the elite take care of their own while the rest of us pay taxes for the National Guard to protect their island mansions.
For the rest of his report go to above link.

in addition: He will be on Jeff Rense Friday during the first
hour (10-11pm EDT). They'll be discussing Hurricane Charley,
the under-reporting of deaths, and dangerous levels of
phosphates in the Peace River.

Mark your calendars right now so you don't miss it!!

[Digit]

79. Using ice trucks now?

Disgusting the extent they will go to, to hide the carnage.

[DenverDem]

6. Like there's no way the media would cover up election fraud,

lies about busholini's criminal record, lies about justification for war, lies about the perpetrators of 9/11 et al ad nauseum.

Please wake up to media complicity to the neo fascist takeover of America.

This story has been bubbling under since the Punta Gorda morge began refusing to comment on the body count days ago.

[tom_paine]

8. Exactly, DD. But the denial line is "Nothing has changed since 1970"

YEP. ED MURROW AND CRONKITE ARE STILL ON THE JOB AND THE MEDIA COULD never COVER UP MASSIVE ELECTORAL FRAUD (OR AT LEAST OBFUSCATE AND DELAY THE MINISCULE COVERAGE -- PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY ANYONE? -- until it no longer mattered)

Sometimes denial is a cost-free failing.

And sometimes, like Rome 45BC, Russia 1922, Germany 1933, and Amerika 2004, it is the failing which winds up costing us EVERYTHING.

[pnb]

10. But those were to cover their asses

Unless you think Charlie was the fault of the repubs, what do your examples have to do with this at all?

[DenverDem]

17. The lack of preparation for Charlie WAS Jeb's fault.

And this level of disaster on his watch reflects ill on him, and busholini inc can't have that happen right now.

This is all about covering their asses, as always.

[Cha]

33. Prescisely! You struck a chord with me with that...

Pres election cover up! I saw that for myself. After the election I couldn't wait to see what the real numbers were and was still reading the NYT then. Couldn't find them anywhere..

The media will cover up any damn thing they please..

Offically the count is 20 dead from Hurricane Charley..and that 20 too many in my book. I went through a cat 5 in '92 on Kauai and the Island was destroyed..took 5 years to rebuild and nobody died.

[atreides1]

7. Just Like The Media

Will cover the election based on fairness. I remember when some of us thought that the media would report the facts, but surprise, surprise.

This report may be a rumor, but the US media has little to no credibility left, so buying anything they report is just as bad.

The only way to know is when family members and friends cannot find their loved ones, and they don't seem to be on a list of the dead.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. You're kidding, right? Are you talking about the same "embedded"....

...mainstream media that refuses to ask tough questions of the Fraud-in-Chief and/or his NeoCon policies?

Here's a tip...the media is not being allowed into some of the worst-hit areas until they've been completely sanitized (i.e., bodies removed).

Here's another thing to think about...the coastal area hit by Charley was under a VOLUNTARY evacuation order until an hour to 45 minutes before landfall. Think of all of the elderly folks living in trailers that had no place to go and no time to get there.

Now do a Google search on "Charley refrigerated trucks" and "Charley 25 morticians" and "Charley significant loss of life".

By the way, those are 18-WHEELER refrigerated trucks...why did they request vehicles of that size unless they knew they had a lot more bodies than they've told the public?

Happy hunting!

[dbt]

49. And each layer of bodies in a reefer truck

would be about 40, no problem. That's assuming "loose pack" and a 50-foot trailer length. Could 10 layers be accomodated per trailer? It would appear so, though I don't just happen to have enough corpses on hand for a mock-up.

So, you've got TWO reefer trucks at a capability of 300-400 bodies each. Why do they arrive before supplies of fresh water arrive?

:freak:
dbt

[jackieforthedems]

2. Why Won't They Tell Us?

In your opinion, why are they hiding this info from the American public?

[peabody71]

12. Political lessons learned.

Jeb did nothing to evacuate these areas. That may or may not be his fault but hidding the truth is unforgivable. Potentially disasterous in home stretch of election. This is what happens when litterally a handful of individuals can call all major shots on what we see on every single tv channel and every major media outlet.
i.e. (CBS)Westinghouse=1 CEO, (NBC)Disney=1 CEO, etc. etc..

[jackieforthedems]

18. REX 84-FEMA

Yeah. FEMA does have certain power regarding communications, etc... in case of stuff like this. But it sucks, and the info needs to get out to the American public.

[Cha]

34. Probably just a space out..but

NBC(GE) ABC(disney)..didn't know that about CBS, though..thanks.

[goclark]

40. Right befor the Republican Convention too

How will that make Jeb look there?

I know it is bizarre to evn Du but these ROVErs are crazy and afraid of this election. They are scared.

[Lerkfish]

13. honestly, I can think of no reason...

*IF* they are unreporting the dead, I see no real advantage, as eventually the figures will come out. It was a hurricane, NOT the Iraq War. Covering up Iraq body counts serves a political purpose. Covering up natural disaster body counts serves absolutely NO political purpose, that I can see.

[peabody71]

15. Maybe they just panicked.

[SaintLouisBlues]

21. Maybe the Chicago snow removal fiasco is a guide

I googled "Chicago mayor snow removal" because I couldn't remember the mayor or the year and found some details:

"But in Chicago, 1979, it was a different story and the incumbent mayor, Michael Bilandic, lost his job thanks in large part to the weather. To help explain why, here's Dr. Andrew McFarlane, the head of the Political Science Department at the University of Illinois at Chicago:

Dr. McFarlane: "The weather did play a major role in the overturn from Mayor Michael Bilandic to Jane Byrne///because Mayor Bilandic was seen on TV as saying that the side streets were being plowed while TV was showing in a split screen they were not being plowed, making him look stupid."

Since the roads weren't cleared, residents had to rely on trains to get them around. As if Mayor Bilandic didn't have enough problems, some snowed in city train stations were bypassed by trains, leading to unforeseen racial problems, and a shift in Chicago politics."

http://www.weathernotebook.org/transcripts/1999/03/02.html

[Bjornsdotter]

Excellent example!

...I lived in Chicago during the winter of '79....it was a nightmare. Our sidestreet was undrivable, we had to walk a mile to the nearest grocery store...our car was buried until the spring. It was the beginning of the annual "save your parking spot with old furniture" festival...which is still held every year during the winter months.

Every mayor since Jane Byrne has made damn sure that the streets are plowed in a timely manner....they want to be re-elected. I don't think Bilandic ever really "got it", before he died he was still puzzled by the whole thing.

It's the same with Florida....evryone knows you can't stop a hurricane, but you better have a back-up plan or on election day the voters will remember.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. Jebbie failed to give a mandatory order to evacuate the....

...low-lying coastal areas south of the Tampa-St Pete metropolitan area. Anyone that's had ANY experience with hurricanes will tell you that they are EXTREMELY unpredictable, particularly when approaching land at an angle along with west-to-east prevailing winds.

There are a few people on this board that will try to tell you that emergency services had the sole authority to order a mandatory evacuation, but the governor is ultimately responsible for the people of his or her state.

The Bush brothers are afraid that if the death toll rises significantly, and if Jebbie's faulty decision-making becomes common knowledge, Florida will go to the Democrats in November.

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. Jeb played god again

and he blew it.

In the past, the governor would defer such a decision to the pros. But ever since Jeb got the Schiavo law passed he thinks he knows more than even doctors and anyone else who disagrees with him.

Jeb made the call, but because of a lack of resources and the Bu$hCo way of doing everything on the cheap, they only evacuated a very small section in the center of the hurricane warning zone.

At the least, everything from Marco Island to Tampa should have been evacuated. Then if the storm continued north, evacuate north of Tampa 2nd. Instead Jeb chose to just evacuate Tampa and his decision added significantly to the loss of life. That's what happens when you start to believe that you know better than everyone else and after 5 years of raping the states economy, you don't have the resources at hand to respond to a big emergency. Especially, since your own brother sent most of the NG to Iraq.

[Junkdrawer]

38. One of two possibilities: "No harm, no foul, no questions"...

The other possibility is the "Feel Good" strategy: when those outside of Florida think Hurricane Charley, we should think "Boy, George and Jeb were sure all over Hurricane Charley and, wow, did they ever fix that!".

Most likely a combination of both reasons.

[Lerkfish]

59. ok, thanks. I couldn't think of a reason, but you provided one...

it just didn't occur to me what possible political motive there could be.

but, I still think, even so, it has to be only temporary since the numbers will come out eventually.

[MUSTANG_2004]

64. There were evacuation orders in place

The day before Charley hit, there were mandatory evacuation orders in place in Charlotte county, where the hurricane hit hardest (south of Tampa). Here's a link with some of the examples of evacuations south of Tampa:
http://nbc-2.com/News/stories/040812_charley.shtml

"Collier County emergency officials have issued a mandatory evacuation for all areas west of U.S. 41, including Everglades City and Marco Island, beginning at 10 a.m. and to be complete by 9 p.m.
....
Lee County officials have issued a mandatory evacuation notice for the coastal/barrier islands including Bonita Beach, Estero Island/Fort Myers Beach, Sanibel Island, Captiva, Pine Island, Matlacha, and Boca Grande starting at 8 a.m.
....
Charlotte County has ordered mandatory evacuations of Gasparilla Island, all barrier islands, RV parks and residents living in mobile homes."

Is there a particular area or zone that wasn't evacuated that you're saying should have been?

[Cha]

35. The numbers eventally came out about who won

Florida, too..but by then nobody gave a shit except duers and a few more.

[Chovexani]

76. The hell it doesn't

It's the homestretch of an election season. You're governor of a contested swing state. Right before your party's convention, at which your brother, the president, will be making his case for being re-elected. A hurricane is predicted, but because you cut funding resources are slim. Hurricane kills assloads of people.

At best, you look grossly incompetent. At worst, you look negligent. In the homestretch of an election season when your state is up for grabs, and your brother needs it to win.

It don't take Einstein to figure this one out. I don't understand why after 3 1/2 years of the most evil, criminal enterprise to ever occupy power in this country, after they have lied and/or tried to cover up every single damn thing (with the full cooperation of the kool kid whores in the Pravda press) there are some DUers who still don't get it.

Or, as my sister put it last night, these people lie about STUPID shit, what makes you think they won't lie about this?

[movonne]

3. This is unbelievable...why are they not telling the people???

Is it political???

[TomNickell]

42. Because it's Bullshit? n/t

[bobbyboucher]

70. There you are, right on cue,

what took you so long?

How pathetic.

[EST]

4. Thank you for the update.

And, while I totally agree with you on your sentiments, perhaps it might be more suitible to put your strongest invective in the body of your post. Thanks for everything!

[tandot]

9. do you have a link for that

I actually heard on Saturday morning an interview on CNN with someone at a hospital at Punta Gorda. She said that hospitals in Punta Gorda (I think she said 3 hospitals) had 250 DOAs (?)(Dead on arrival).

I thought she misspoke or had false information. :shrug:

[onenote]

16. unlikely

I've spoken with a friend that's an EMT in Florida who has been working nonstop since the hurricane hit and he says the reports of hundreds dead simply are bs. He thought one possible explanation for the reports was that refrigeration trucks had been brought into the area so that hospitals, funeral homes, etc. could move bodies that had been awaiting burial/cremation etc before the hurricane could be preserved since there was no power in many of the hospitals/funeral homes. Which makes a lot of sense to me...

onenote

[peabody71]

19. What part of Florida?

[onenote]

24. volusia I think

I'll check to find out where he's been working specifically.

onenote

[DenverDem]

30. Uh, Volusia County is Daytona Beach.

I believe him when he says there aren't many fatalities on the East Coast, we're talking about the West Coast here.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. I find your explanation VERY "unlikely"...but that's JMHO.

[onenote]

29. I respect your HO

But I'm curious why you find my "explanation" very unlikely? Thirty five percent of the population of Charlotte County (County seat of Punta Gorda) are over 65 according to US Census. Which suggests that at any given time, there probably are quite a few recently deceased folks whose bodies haven't yet been disposed of (the total pop of CHarlotte COunty is over 150,000 and it has one of the highest "death rates" per thousand of anywhere in the state. That being said, its hard to believe that there would be 250 corpses awaiting burial in the county at any one time, but I also have trouble believing that number. I suppose its possible that a trailer park or some other densely populated area could've suffered a severe hit with that level of loss of life -- but what incentive would the emergency personnel in the area have for "hiding" this story?

onenote

[Media_Lies_Daily]

51. Emergency personnel are under orders to keep their mouths shut....

...and no natural death rate is going to cover approximately 400 deaths on the same exact day.

[RivetJoint]

57. What orders?

Link to back that up?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

61. No link...just common sense. Remember, we're dealing with Florida.

[onenote]

71. my skepticism

applies to what I read in the mass media as well as to what I read on the internet. In this case, knowing a number of EM personnel well, I have trouble with the idea that an "order" to keep their mouths shut would succeed. These folks care deeply about what they do and get riled up at any efforts to play politics or otherwise interfere with their jobs. And while I agree that no natural death rate is going to cover 400 deaths on the same day, my point is that the bodies alleged to have been seen in the refrig trucks aren't necessarily of folks that all died on the same day...chances are that the bodies in the trucks include bodies from morgues, funeral homes etc. that were awaiting disposal before the storm hit. With no power, hospitals, nursing homes, funeral homes would have to move these bodies off site. Again, I agree that 400 would be a large number, even for the number of dead over a several day period predating the storm...but I'm skeptical about otherwise unsubstantiated eyewitness accounts that claim a very specific number of bodies.

onenote

[anarchy1999]

26. Of course it does. And welcome to DU. Be careful, your post is not

hitting a high note. I'll have far more tomorrow, first hand account.

[onenote]

31. thanks for the welcome

and I look forward to hearing any info you have tomorrow.

onenote

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. I was in Volusia County

on Saturday and Sunday. There weren't a lot of casualties on the East Coast of Florida, even thought Daytona Beach had 85 mph winds and sustained a fair bit of damage. The situation there is no where near as bad as in SW Florida.

[peabody71]

14. Does anyone have a activist email list?

What I mean is that I used to have a list of emails for every politician and all media folk.
Can anyone send this out? This could potentially blow a hole a mile wide in Americans perception of their sacred media.

[Dogmudgeon]

23. The same story was told about Hurricane Andrew

K. T. Frankovich seems to be the main proponent of this idea. Here's KTF's web page: http://www.whereheavensmeet.com/urgent.html (As of this writing, "Hurricane Earle" has petered out and dissipated.)

A brief list of Frankovich's writings on the covered-up Hurricane Andrew deaths:

Deadly Silences: The Hurrcane Andrew Cover-Up.

Where Heavens Meet

Page of Andrew disaster links.

For the record, I don't think she's right, nor do I think there were mass deaths from Charley. But I remain open to any information as it becomes available.

--bkl

[beyurslf]

27. What purpose is there in covering up the number of dead?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. Read my post #25.

[Bjornsdotter]

39. I came across this...

...on Buzzflash....feel free to check on the validity of this man's statement.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/08/con04341.html

Bush Cancels Funding For Important Satellite Program


Cheers,
Kim :toast:

[hang a left]

45. Very interesting. I sure wish we had some idea of the truth here.

As a local charter boat captain I have a necessary familiarity with the remote sensing instrumentation employed by NASA and NOAA, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. These agencies provide some of the most valuable tools professionals such as myself rely on to make a living. My academic background is in meteorological science, which comes in quite handy and I apply that basic knowledge on a daily basis with help from NOAA to create working forecasts of weather conditions at sea. I depend on my experience at sea and on the derived meteorological products from key satellite systems to keep my clients and myself safe. However, you don't have to be a sea going captain to understand the importance of accurate weather forecasting services. It is of grave concern to me that the public is now exposed to a clear and present danger posed by the shut down of the TRMM satellite program. TRMM is an orbiting surveillance platform, which observes and reports important information needed to make sound weather forecasts. TRMM provides sea surface temperature and sea height data, which is factored into the statistical forecasting models, which estimate hurricane growth potential and direction of travel. The TRMM satellite program has been used for over a decade in successful forecasts of intensity and tracking for tropical systems like Hurricane Charley. To the dismay of working professionals, coastal residents and the world science community, funding for this vital program has been terminated by the Bush administration, even as these scientists argue that we are now handicapping our ability to deliver concise warnings of impending hurricane landfalls. The premature closure of this very valuable weather forecasting mission is certainly not laudable given our present circumstances.

The problem with TRMM is not technical; it is all about reassigned budget priorities to accommodate the president's vision of manned space exploration. In the absence of the political will to continue the program a decision was made to implement the controlled de-orbiting of this perfectly good life saving satellite. All because the mere $28 million to $36 million needed to operate the system for another two years could not be found in the new working budget shared between NASA and the Japanese space agency with whom we are in partnership.

Let's do some math and examine the false economy realized in this shortfall. Accurate forecasting reduces the scope and scale of evacuations. The costs of evacuating 1 mile of coastline has been estimated to be about $1 million dollars and there are hundreds if not sometimes thousands of miles evacuated during even a mild Hurricane season. The cost of a human life lost to a storm is a calculation that I would not care to endure and yet sadly many have done just that.

I would like to task Mr. Bush to justify why he deemed it appropriate for his administration to impair our forecasting system and thus blind our eyes to the next storm which arrives to take from us the very things government can not replace. I think that it is incumbent for him to assign the necessary funding to ensure that NASA and the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration can continue their mission of protecting the nation from the consequences of violent weather. Any reluctance to do so would be worthy of some very close attention by the residents of Florida. The president's recent visit to the disaster sites at Punta Gorda and Arcadia certainly takes on new meaning when we consider these implications.

Captain Wayne R. Genthner

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/08/con04341.html

[Bjornsdotter]

46. Found this link from Washington Post...

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10023-2004Jul23.html

Lawmakers Make Plea to Keep Weather Satellite

By Guy Gugliotta
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 24, 2004; Page A09


Two leading members of the House Science Committee have urged the Bush administration to reconsider its decision to bring down a NASA satellite used by scientists and forecasters around the world to study global climate and track tropical storms.


See link for full article.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

[Junkdrawer]

32. Don't know if it's 400, but yeah, Jeb is lying to us...

and the most frightening part of all is that it appears they will get away with it.

For example, the trailer park in Punta Gorda. Official obits show 2 deaths:

http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/081804/tp26ch26.htm?date=081804&story=tp26ch26.htm

While numerous reports Saturday had deputies guarding "stacks of bodies":

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128885,00.html

And this report has 60 dead:

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14532339&method=full&siteid=106694&headline=200-feared-dead-as-all-hell-breaks-loose-name_page.html

Now, how will they do that?

Well, all the bodies are going into a refrigerated truck and, over time, they could be added into the normal, daily deaths of a region heavily skewed with the elderly.

But if they really try to get away with this, it should be easy to catch them. I mean, it won't be credible to have large numbers of trailer park residents die of natural causes around the same time of Hurricane Charley.

So Jeb: it's decision time. Keep up the lie or come clean in the next day or two. Otherwise, you'll have one big honking lie to keep quiet

[DU GrovelBot]

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[jackieforthedems]

43. Somebody Go In There With A Cam Corder

I'm in MN, but could somebody in FL go in there with a video camera or camcorder and get some first hand accounts and/or footage? I'd just tell them that I was a volunteer. Then, I'd turn the evidence over to Michael Moore. :think:

[Padraig18]

44. No sale.

I want to see something resembling proof, not 'my brothers's barber's cousin's next-door neighbor's garbage man's 3rd cousin' said accounts.

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

56. If you had read the article, you would know that he's giving you...

...his first-person account along with the accounts of 5-6 others that he apparently knows.

Ever been through a hurricane? Ever been through one at 80+ years old while living in a trailer park?

[Cuban_Liberal]

58. Why do you assume he *didn't* read it?

Perhaps he's just too polite to say 'I call bullshit!'.

:shrug:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

62. For the same reason that I don't believe you read his post very closely.

[Cuban_Liberal]

66. I read it very closely.

And it reeks of rumor-mongering.

[Padraig18]

72. I did read the article.

The article is NOT the posters' first-hand account, but an article from some rumor rag. There is no way on Earth that they could keep 400+ deaths covered up.

[Nordic]

47. our media LOVES dead bodies. They would eat this shit up

if it were true.

I wouldn't doubt Jebbie would try to cover this up, but I kinda doubt they could keep the wolves quiet on this one

[Tsiyu]

48. You Could Be Correct

nevertheless, i read that Hardee County's election official died due to a heart attack after the storm. A new official will be appointed by Jeb & Co.

Did anyone else read this story?

[rman]

50. more then that the media loves to follow orders

from their owners, most of whom have an interest in defending the Bush admin.
The media are not wolves, rather they are lap dogs of the powers that be.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

52. How long did it take before the flag-draped coffins from the Middle...

...East were photographed by a non-journalist who subsequently lost her job?

What wolves? Are you referring to the media sheep?

[Cuban_Liberal]

53. I seriously doubt the veracity of these claims.

As a former police officer, I can virtually guarantee that you wouldn't be able to keep this tight of a lid on a story like this, if it were true; someone, somewhere, somehow, would have produced photographs or a videotape.

This story reeketh of 'meadow muffins'.

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Right. And where do you actually live?

[Cuban_Liberal]

55. What relevance is that?

Illinois, a fact which has nothing to do with my assertions...

:wtf:

[Cuban_Liberal]

60. *crickets* n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. Some of us actually work for a living and can't get back to the....

...board as quickly as we would like.

But thanks for answering my original question as to where you actually live. That tells me a lot about your basic understanding of what's actually happening in Florida.

By the way, your "assertions" are still baseless, IMHO.

[Cuban_Liberal]

65. I was born in FL, and have family there.

You have yet to produce one iota of anything resembling proof, yet your post casts aspersions on my assertions and general expertise regarding the subject matter. Curiouser and curiouser...

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

81. You need to read post #80 and catch up with the rest of us....

...here's the link so you won't have to hunt for it:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2233003&mesg_id=2238988&page=>


As an aside, I lived eight years in St. Pete, FL, plus three and a half years in Mobile, AL. I've been through six hurricanes and know first-hand what they can do, and what they're capable of doing. I've heard nothing from you that would indicate that you've had similar experiences.

Additionally, I'm still casting "aspersions on your assertions and general expertise". You've done nothing in this thread other than claiming to have been a police officer at some point in time, and to have family currently living in Florida. That and fifty cents just might get you a cup of coffee these days. Maybe.

[davsand]

68. Human nature is the same everywhere, I think.

I doubt that it matters much if you are in Illinois, Florida or even Nepal--wherever there are people gathered together Somebody is gonna talk if they know about anything as major as mass casualties. Only in the military and in the CIA can they compel silence--and even then we all know it doesn't work a lot of times.

I DO think the media is not reporting a lot of the death associated with Charley. I also think the media has not reported the true number of KIA's we've had in Iraq and Afghanistan. Additionally, I think the media probably is sitting on a lot of info that we hear about much later because it will make somebody unhappy/unpopular at the exact time it happened.

We will hear it all sooner or later--and THEN "it" will hit the fan if we've been lied to...


Laura

[Cuban_Liberal]

69. Agreed.

No domestic mass-caualty situation like the one described upthread could remain hidden for this long.

[medeak]

67. 42 nursing home patients

were moved as roof blew off in Punta Gorda. Friend emailed me today that her Mom's nursing home has taken in the refugees 300 miles away. She has spent her days and nights helping to feed them as staff is unable.

Family members are making 300 mile trip to help and returning to no water or electricity.

Why is the media not covering this as well?

[Junkdrawer]

73. What happened in Punta Gorda ?.....

The initial reports were ominous..."bodies stacked like cordwood". Even Fox News reported "stacks of bodies"...

PUNTA GORDA, Fla. — The death toll from Hurricane Charley (search) rose early Saturday, when a county official said there had a been "significant loss of life" at a mobile home park and deputies were standing guard over stacks of bodies because the area was inaccessible to ambulances.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128885,00.html

Soon numbers were coming out. Some reports had numbers like 60 dead:

AT LEAST 200 people were feared dead last night after Hurricane Charley left Florida looking like a war zone with streets "littered with bodies".

Around 60 people were crushed to death at a trailer park after 170mph whirlwinds flattened homes like dominoes.

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14532339&method=full&siteid=106694&headline=200-feared-dead-as-all-hell-breaks-loose-name_page.html

Then the story started to change. At first we started to hear that officials were reluctant to release death tolls:

CHARLOTTE COUNTY - Two refrigerated trucks sat in the wind-torn parking lot of the Best Western Water Front Inn off the tranquil waters of Charlotte Harbor, serving as a temporary morgue for the casualties of Hurricane Charley.

Four people may have been killed by the storm in Charlotte County, some reports indicate, and Charley led to at least 16 deaths statewide during its forceful push Friday through Florida.

With ongoing search and rescue efforts stretching into the evening hours Sunday, Charlotte County emergency officials declined to confirm the county's fatalities.

"We've never dealt with a mass casualty event, and we're not yet prepared to (verify) or acknowledge the number of fatalities," said Wayne Sallade, director of Charlotte County's emergency management. "Yes, there are fatalities. Yes, there are people in those refrigerated trucks at the temporary morgue, but we're not prepared to say how many. At this point, I'm not sure that I have the accurate number.

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/9411262.htm

And finally, we have officials retreating to 4 dead county wide, 2 at the trailer park.

PUNTA GORDA -- A day after saying that as many as 12 people had died in Charlotte County from Hurricane Charley, officials lowered the figure to four today.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040816/NEWS/40816043/1006/SPORTS

So we had "stacks of bodies" then 60 then 12. Now it's 2 - and the rest (presumably) died of natural causes.

Excuse me, but something stinks here.
:wtf:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

80. Oh, no, no, no...it's obvious that all of those people were confused...

...and mistakenly identified debris as lots of dead bodies.

Isn't it so much simpler to ignore or gloss over all of those inconvenient initial eyewitness reports? Don't you feel better now? I know that I do! :eyes:

[Junkdrawer]

82. In all seriousness, do they really think they're going to get away...

with this? Remember all the debunkers that said:

"yeah, well they're just waiting to notify next of kin"

or

"yeah, well they're just waiting to finish autopsies"

Well, it's a week tomorrow. Looks to me like 2 - 4 deaths is their final answer.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

74. For those who don't think that Bush could possibly be lying abt. this...

Check this scary stuff out. You can be sure that the Bush admin. is VERY worried about this affecting his re-election. This is part of the reason his Daddy lost.

http://www.psywarrior.com/PSYOPHurricaneAndrew.html

PSYOP IN SUPPORT OF HURRICANE ANDREW RECOVERY OPERATIONS
Psychological Operations (PSYOP) are seldom practiced within the Continental United States. The military rightfully knows that some citizens see connotations of brain washing and control in the term "PSYOP." As a result, active duty troops from Ft. Bragg and reservists from the various PSYOP and Civil Affairs units will deploy only in the case of a great disaster or emergency. Such was the case when Hurricane Andrew slammed into the east coast of Florida in August 1992.

-snip-

I have always believed that Hurricane Andrew was one of the major reasons that President George Bush failed to be reelected. Nightly television news showed American citizens living among the rubble for days. The television anchors implied that the Federal Government did very little to ease their suffering. Partisan politics may have been involved, since the Democratic Governor of Florida apparently hesitated before asking for federal aid. Three days passed between Andrew's assault and the arrival of federal help. Kate Hale, the Dade County emergency director, went on live national television on 27 August with tears in her eyes and castigated the federal government.

-snip-

The photographs of President Bush depict him walking stiffly and surrounded by military personnel. Photographs of candidate Clinton show him visiting the homeless without accompaniment, hugging children, and "feeling their pain."

Whatever the reason, the result was that American citizens were depicted nightly sitting under the stars by the wrecked remains of their homes while well-fed Haitian boat people were shown living in clean military tents in the U.S. base at Guantanamo, Cuba. Since that time, every U.S. President has made a point of personally visiting and being photographed at a domestic disaster scene.

-snip-

[TomNickell]

77. ROFLAMO. Sigh. Exploiting a tragedy. SOP.

Here we are again. An obvious crock.

Exploiting a horrid tragedy. Same bunch of jokers.

FWIW, here's why this is nonsense.

1. Thousands of rescue workers would know, if they've been hauling away hundreds of bodies..
2. Thousands of family and friends would be out looking for hundreds of dead Floridians.
3. Each death creates a whole network of events and legal documents. It's all traceable.

Common Sense.

[Junkdrawer]

78. Yeah. Dubya and Jeb really are exploiting a tragedy...

Perhaps you want to explain Punta Gorda...

Multiple reports of a "mass casualty event" - then two reported deaths. :wtf:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2233003&mesg_id=2238778&page=