Should health care be denied to undocumented aliens?

[Dookus]

Poll question: Should health care be denied to undocumented aliens?

It seems a lot of people here want to withhold ALL services from people who are here illegally.

Is it smart public policy to deny health care to such people? Does the threat of infectious diseases play into your decision?

[fujiyama]

1. I would say no

it shouldn't, but I would bill the home countries for the bill or at least make them differ the cost somehow.

[maveric]

24. So, if an alien working in the fields to keep your produce affordable,

cuts himself deeply on the job, the hospital should turn him away and leave him to die?
Emergency room services are considered "Healthcare".

[fujiyama]

98. I meant "no"

to the question, "should it be denied?"

Of course it shouldn't be denied. That'd be cruel and idiotic. At the same time I think in the southwest and other regions it's quite a burden on the state government and the federal govt should help.

The best way is finding a way to improve health care and living standards in those nations as well.

I hope that clarifies what I said.

[SharonAnn]

91. Yes, they could be great carriers of diseases, such as tuberculosis

or other very contagious diseases.

If they don't get health care, they can spread the disease to all of us.

Whoopee, epidemics like we haven't had for many, many years!

[Dookus]

92. sounds commonsensical to me

but evidently these people must be PUNISHED for daring to want to improve their lot in life.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. If their BODY is in America and their BODY needs care whether

emergent or preventive such as vaccines, we should provide it. Whether they should then be deported is another issue entirely.

[HollowHead]

3. No, people are people

just like you and me, and deserve to live without the fear of not getting needed medical care.

They have families and children, just like we do. They work, and do what they can to survive, just like we do.

No one should suffer because they cannot afford health care. Not in the "richest" nation in the history of the planet.

[Djinn]

4. of course

any decent society would let the "free loaders" bleed to death on the pavement outside hospitals...serves them right for being poor (sarcasm off)

I can see how this is an attractive idea to some but when faced with it in reality surely only the coldest people let others suffer to save cash.

[Dookus]

6. I agree, of course

but in another thread, some people asserted that health care and education should be denied to people here illegally. I think such a position is not only cruel, it's short-sighted.

[Djinn]

32. we all know you're a soft touch bleeding heart commie Dooks!

:evilgrin:

[truhavoc]

5. I had to say yes..

There is just so much influx of illegal immigration it would make the entire system inefficient and more costly than stated. It would be used as ammunition for the cons to use against us because the last thing the american taxpayers want to know if that our biggest entitlement is being abused by illegal immigrants. The ideal of billing the home country or something of the like is extremely impractical.

[Dookus]

7. umm..

so preventing people with infectious diseases from getting treatment is wise public policy?

[truhavoc]

54. I agree with the theory side of the argument

But yes, it would indeed be bad policy at least in the beginning of the entitlement. Believe me I agree that it would be the humane and truly american thing to do (bring me your poor and huddled masses) but the program itself is of such heated debate that there is no need at this moment to confused the issue further and give ammunition to the right.

[truhavoc]

56. Also allow me to clarify further

I do feel that life saving or truly emergency treatment should be administered. Otherwise it might be necessary for everyone with an accent or dark skin would be asked for proof of citizenship before being treated, this would be indeed a travesty. You made a comment below that people would not seek treatment if they feared deportation, I think they would automatically fear deportation regardless of the policy.

[HollowHead]

10. The taxpayers don't seem to care about spending 200 bil

on murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why should they care about a few measly hundred million for health care?

What's that? Because they are greedy fucks?

Oh. Forgot about that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Welcome to DU Hollowhead...

:hi:

[HollowHead]

19. thank you

I'm ready to rumble! This country has to be taken back and restored. It has to.

[truhavoc]

49. Well maybe...

but especially when the "murdering" of people in Iraq and Afghanistan is billed as homeland protection. Why do you think people in the lower income brackets are republican? Tax cuts, religion, guns, and other prejudices are the only reasons that would make any sense...and this (universal health care to illegal aliens) is just blasphemy to them all.

[Cleita]

8. I don't really call visitors to our country whether illegal or not

aliens. They are human beings like us. We are to blame for why they are here. If there were no jobs for them they wouldn't come. If our government pressured the governments of those countries to pass laws for decent wages and free education in their countries, they wouldn't be here.

We are to blame for them being here and if their children or they need something basic like health care, we should help them to get it. What if we made the people who hire them provide them with a basic health plan or at least pay into the medicaid fund to pay for this?

[Dookus]

12. no offense intended...

"alien" has a very specific meaning that applies here. Its first definition as a noun is:

"An unnaturalized foreign resident of a country".

I don't see anything wrong with the term. Perhaps "illegal alien" is the term you'd hoped to take offense with?

[Cleita]

30. I know you didn't mean anything derogatory.

It's just that the word has taken on a meaning of someone being undesirable, like being a liberal these days. I was really addressing the lurkers who might think undocumented workers are criminals or worse.

[Doctor Smith]

9. No, but allowing employers to offload the true costs of cheap labor

onto society is a very bad thing, and will do great damage to the country.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. Which is why they should be sanctioned but those laws are not

enforced to the degree that they should be. BTW, there was just an article demonstrating how WalMart costs communities millions and how their employees by not being paid a living wage pass off costs to society via medicare and state disability systems...I guess my point is the nation of origin of the cheap labor doesn't really matter, does it?

[Doctor Smith]

42. Things will not improve as long as

there is an unlimited supply of workers streaming across the border who are willing to work for low wages under poor conditions. The only reason Wal*Mart can pay low wages is because people are willing to work for low wages. We are importing poverty.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. Not true IMHO, Doc

And thus far I completely respect the opinions of yours I have read..so please don't take this post to believe I am flaming you. I don't think typical laws of supply and demand work in a basically unregulated business environment wherein one company can control SO much of the retail grocery business as to SET THE RULES for other companies...remember the Albertson's/ Ralph's strike? What we have isn't low wage workers driving wages down...what we have is UNPROTECTED, UN-ORGANIZED workers (due to unfair business practices) driving wages down. We aren't importing poverty...we are PRODUCING it with laissez faire unregulated, UNUNIONIZED labor.

Anyway..I am taking off..have a good one. :hi:

(BTW...this is why I feel the "illegal" issue is a scapegoat issue)

[DrWeird]

13. Yes.

There's a guy who works next to me who's obviously an illegal alien (he's a minority and he doesn't speak very good English) and I'm sick and tired of these people taking our health care and white women and laughing at us the whole time for being foolish in their sick little foreign languages.

[Dookus]

14. lol

report him to DHS!

[DrWeird]

16. The problem is it's a mod...

Oh, wait, you mean the "guy I work with."

Sorry, got confused.

[Tight_rope]

106. And you should be ashamed!

But who knows...maybe you are just like him.

[Tight_rope]

105. "taking our health care and white women"? sooo you are more concerned

About being able to get laid by your fellow caucans sister then the life of a human being. Boy you have the makes of being a neo-con fascist if you are not already one.

[Placebo]

15. Yes, treat them, BUT THEN, Immediately deport them...

back to their country of origin.

[Dookus]

17. and you think

they would go for medical help knowing they'd be arrested and deported?

[Placebo]

20. They are here illegally

so they should be lucky they are getting treated and grateful that they be escorted back to their home nation.

[Dookus]

23. You didn't answer the question

spouting right-wing talking points isn't helpful for the discussion.

Do you not see that promising swift arrest and deportation effectively denies them medical care?

[Placebo]

27. I am NOT spouting right-wing talking points...

I am spouting the law. I am sorry if you would prefer to wrap your mind around illegality and emotion rather than the law and the facts of the situation.

They made the choice to come into the country illegally, they know the risks, they know the dangers, if they can do that, then they can decide if they want to be treated and taken care of medically knowing they will be sent back to the country they came from. I don't see the problem there. It would be the NICEST way to go about dealing with them after they have broken the law.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Yes you are spouting right wing talking points

The actual BENEFITS they provide to our country are NEVER discussed when people talk about the COSTS of all this care. For one who clings to the LAW to back this form of scapegoating as you did with your thread on the subject, do you ever speed? Have you ever broken a law? Ever spit on a city sidewalk?

Usually they are here working...why not focus on the scofflaws that hire them?

[Placebo]

31. Now you've just totally leap-frogged over the issue at hand...

you wanted to talk about health care, and now you're talking about evil corporations that like to hire them. and i agree with you there, we SHOULD go after the corporations and businesses that hire illegal immigrants to do their dirty work. if they did that, they might actually start hiring citizens and paying decent wages.

and once again, no i am not spouting right wing talking points, as much as you would like to label my beliefs as such.

sure there are benefits that they provide to this nation, but lets put it this way, THEY NEED US more than WE NEED THEM, and that's a fact.

[Dookus]

34. Why is that a fact?

It is your opinion.

I really wish all undocumented workers were able to go on strike for a month and everybody could SEE how necessary they are.

[Placebo]

36. We would learn to adapt faster than they would.

And it's "Illegal Immigrants" not 'undocumented workers/aliens'

[Dookus]

37. ah good

another right-wing talking point.

Good job!

[Placebo]

40. You just can't debate the issue so you like to slap a false label on me.

Fine by me! Makes my job easier. :shrug:

[Dookus]

48. sorry

insisting that the term "illegal alien" is somehow right while "undocumented alien" is wrong is a pure right-wing bullshit argument.

It has NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand - it's simply a shitty way to denigrate a class of people.

If your job is to spew nonsense like this, then your job is very easy indeed without my help.

[Placebo]

51. are you going to try and argue

that they AREN'T here illegally? that they AREN'T breaking the law by entering into the united states without permission?

how does that make them NOT illegal, but 'undocumented'???

[Dookus]

55. If you go above 65 miles per hour

are you an "illegal driver"?

People aren't illegal - actions are. Yes they are here illegally. That doesn't mean they are illegal people.

Insisting that the term be used to the exclusion of others is a shitty right-wing talking point, despite your objections.

[Placebo]

59. I would be an illegal driver

and they are illegal immigrants

and no i am advocating the exclusion of others and i am NOT spouting right-wing talking points WHY do you keep saying that?

PS: I am half mexican, my relatives came here legally, I am not racist or trying to exclude or scapegoat a certain segment of society.

[Dookus]

63. because

a simple minded "deport 'em" and the insistence on using an insulting term when another, perfectly adequate NON-insulting term is available are right-wing talking points.

[Placebo]

64. Do you speak for ALL illegal immigants/undocumented workers

when you say 'illegal immigrants' is an insulting term?

I say it isn't one, you say it is one. :shrug:

NOT right-wing talking points

[Bridget Burke]

97. "makes my job easier"--how much are you paid to post here?

Are you here legally?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. No I haven't leap frogged the issue...why do you think they are considered

illegal in the first place when they are on the same land as us? Why did Reagan offer amnesty? Why does Bush WANT to? The continual scapegoating of these people is of GREAT benefit to the ruling class in a plutocracy and careful as to who you think needs who...I live in an agricultural state...it's economy would collapse were it not for migrant workers.....remember those bigoted "smallest books"....well the smallest one I've ever read is "White Men I've Met While Canvassing the Grape Vines and Walking the Onion Fields."

The NEED is synergistic and only a person who thinks that them pushing a pencil produces more than the people who are the ACTUAL salt of the earth and have cases and cases of vegetables to demonstrate their TRUE productivity would be arrogant enough to think differently.

[Placebo]

45. Accepting the status quo in this case just isn't the best we can do.

I am not saying that we haven't, sadly, become dependant on illegal immigrants in some industries, I concede that, and it's unfortunate.

but if they weren't here we would have found SOME way to get the job done which probably would have resulted in either americans who need work doing it, OR, some invention being created to do the job which would probably benefit americans as it could be created and manufactured in the US and that would create jobs.

simply because we're dependent on them now is no excuse NOT to change that. that's like saying, since we're so dependant on oil, and eliminating it from the economy and industry right now would be catastrophic, there is NO NEED and WE SHOULDN'T try and end that and create alternative sources of energy.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. There's no reason to continually scapegoat people who share a continent

with us either...if one were as concerned with terrorism as you seem to be in your driver's license thread, why would you NOT want to open borders, create good will and thereby obviate the need to hate us for exploiting them regardless....prosecuting aliens certainly hasn't resulted in anything of value? Has it?


BTW I am leaving now..so a response either will or won't be forthcoming at a later time.

[Placebo]

57. WOW, you ACTUALLY argue in favour of OPENING THE BORDER?

You honestly think that would help in the war against terror?

I am so blown away by that comment that I barely know where to begin.

If we opened the border it would be a collective LOSS for America. Can you IMAGINE how MANY would come swarming into this nation? It would be absolutel INSANE!

CAN WE TRUST MEXICO to accurately screen who is coming into THEIR country? I think not. Why would a potential terrorist need to come into the US through our borders? Just wander into mexico and then right into the US!

It's been reported that in texas many border patrol officers have encountered middle eastern/arabian men trying to pass themselves off as mexican and cross the border illegally, but the federal government is doing NOTHING to investigate that.

And as of late, we have not seen an effective enforcement of our border laws, so I can't say as to whether ' prosecuting illegal immigrants has resulted in anything. And I am not advocating prosecution, just deportation.

PS: I am half mexican, my relatives came here legally, I am not racist or trying to exclude or scapegoat a certain segment of society.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

60. The last piece of info you shared perplexes me

It was EASY for your relatives to come here at one time because the border WAS mostly open...BTW..which of the 9/11 terrorists came across the Mexican Border...any? The only terrorism we are fostering via that border is via the war on drugs...we CREATED it and unless you want to build a wall around America like that one that was in Berlin....there really isn't anything to stem the flow of people who don't want to live in the shadows of the biggest superpower in the world and be continually abused by it.

[Placebo]

61. Ever heard about PREVENTION?

We have to look at ALL the ways terrorists could use to come into this country and just because the 9/11 hijackers didn't come in through the mexican border that doesn't mean that others might not in the future.

I do favour soldiers on the borders, what's the point of having borders if they aren't going to be enforced? :shrug:

[Booster]

85. I am so sick of hearing that illegals are providing a

service to our country. Open your ears; they are ILLEGALS; they are breaking our laws just by being here. I read that illegals just from Mexico send back 8 billion (that's with a B) back to their families in Mexico. Do the math; if they can send that much back and still have money to live here, how many of just illegal Mexicans do you think there are here? We are not becoming just a country of the haves and have nots, we could also become a third world country if we keep this up. Vicente Fox holds seminars just to tell his people how to get to America so they can send money back to Mexico and pay his salary. We have laws that I have to follow; why don't they also have to follow our laws???????

[Dookus]

86. Yes they are here illegally

and they also provide a service.

In fact, I've read reports that they contribute much more in taxes than they take in services.

Vicente Fox is getting his salary from undocumented workers in the US? Do you have a citation for that? And FreeRepublic doesn't count.

[Pithlet]

104. Yes, and my baby

is inherently more deserving of the healthcare he gets because he's an American baby! Yes sir, American baby, born and bred. God Bless my American baby. He can thank his little Pampers diapered butt that he was born in this country, thanks to me! I had the good sense to be an American myself! No sex in foreign countries for me and my ancestors (well, at least a few generations back, anyway). Its an outrage that we help unAmerican babies and their unAmerican, having-sex-outside-the-US-boarder parents. It's disgusting, I tell ya! I'd rather my hard earned taxes go to corporations and rich people so they don't have to pay as much, or any for that matter. I'd rather my money go to funding wars that kill other babies that were stupid enough to not be born here.

[Pithlet]

102. What

They should be grateful they're not being shot?

Gee, people should know their place in this world, and be grateful for every little crumb they get? Are you sure you know where you are?

[DrWeird]

25. After investing all that money in them?

I say we go the whole ten yards and give them scholarships.

Deport some of the less deserving American citizens. The illegal immigrants actually showed some drive in getting here, that makes them more American than plenty of the lazy jerks that didn't do any good but get born here. So ship them off. Natural selection and all that.

[sandnsea]

33. They won't get treatment, helloooo?????

You'd rather have people walking around with communicable diseases? Sorry, but goddamn, I don't know how damned dumb people can be sometimes. If we weren't such a money grubbing society, this wouldn't even be a question.

:mad:

[pennylane100]

18. I say yes and no.

Of course we should provide emergency medical care to anyone who needs it, including illegal aliens, but thats as far as I would go.

[HollowHead]

21. What about preventative care for children?

"illegal" children who require vaccinations to go to school?

Why isn't there universal health care in the USA, the richest country in the history of the existence of people?

[Dookus]

22. so no vaccinations for babies

or pre-natal assistance for pregnant women?

No examinations for communicable diseases for children entering school?

[Hippo_Tron]

28. If they walk into the ER then they shouldn't be denied treatment

But I don't think that they should be covered by government health insurance. Children excluded from this, they should be covered no matter what. Additionally though, I think that we need to either crack down on illegal immigration or just allow open immigration.

[WoodrowFan]

35. Vulcans yes, Klingons, no

Sorry, but I can't BELIEVE anyone here would deny another human being health care because they crossed the border illegally to find work. Jesus fucking Christ people.

[DU GrovelBot]

38. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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This week is our third quarter 2004 fund drive. Democratic
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[Dookus]

39. Hrm...

I wonder if Grovelbot is here legally....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. He's green...deport him after you delouse him

[wurzel]

44. If we were "savages" in a jungle and a child was sick

The "witch doctor" would come, wouldn't he?

[depakid]

46. Anyone who thinks undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes...

raise their hands.

Anyone who thinks that they're entitled the social security that they help subsidize raise their hands.

Dookus raises an important issue with respect to public health.

It's what economists call "a public good." Like the air we breath. And like the air we breathe, it depreciates and degrades unless we invest in improvements- namely, clinics, hospitals and vaccinations- and education. It depreciates if we let untreated individuals spread disease (especially nasty viri and anti-biotic resistent bacterial infections) either through lack of treatment or through ignorant practices. And that affects all of us and places a drain on the overall economy that, in cases of epidemic, costs society far more even in the short term than modest preventative care would have in the first place.

No matter how you feel about "illegal immigrants," receiving services that "they don't deserve"- you are in essense cutting off your noses to spite your faces by denying them healthcare (and for similar but not necessarily the same reasons- education).

It's ill considered considered policy- from an economic perspective- as well as from a humanitarian one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. Those "illegals" pay taxes. They pay for their healthcare.

They work hard for low wages. Harder than most "good" (that is white) 'merkuns do. And, a helluva lot harder than most of the guys running the corporations that ripped them off do.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. Does that include plastic surgery?

It seems to me you have left a few of the details out. For the record, I would be in favor of providing health care for our own citizens and legal residents first. No one should ever be refused immediate, emergency, life-saving care for any reason.

[Dookus]

58. But what about preventive health care?

vaccinations and pre-natal treatment?

I won't deign to respond to the ridiculous plastic surgery point.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. I already answered your question. We should provide health care

to our citizens and legally resident aliens. Emergency care in life-threatening situations should never be denied to anyone for any reason. Laws should either be enforced, or changed. People who are in our country illegally should be deported.

[Dookus]

65. It was a simple question

I'll presume your answer is "no, no vaccinations or pre-natal care".

That's a very short-sighted position.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. It's a simple answer. There is no reason to pretend otherwise.

By the way, you don't have to 'presume' what my answer is, you can just read it. Twice.


I would like to ask you a question. Why should we provide pre-natal care to an illegal immigrant instead of just deporting her to her country of origin?

[Dookus]

69. because

the threat to deport people seeking medical care will insure that they DO NOT get the care. Therefore, public health issues arise and innocent children suffer.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

71. I'm not talking about the 'threat' to deport people.

I'm talking about actually deporting people.


I don't believe laws should be selectively enforced according to the whims of the people enforcing them. I think if the law is wrong, it should be changed.


You've made your position clear, thank you.

[Dookus]

72. Well, once

one or two ARE deported for seeking medical care, it will be widely known, and medical care will NOT be sought by people who need it.

Your position is very clear, too. I find it a short-sighted, simple-minded one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

74. As long as you felt the need to repeat your insult, I will reply in kind.

I also find your position to be short-sighted and simple-minded.

[Dookus]

77. let's see...

You espouse a position that will prevent people from accessing health care, possibly endangering the community with infectious diseases, whereas I support acknowledging the reality of the situation and providing health care so that the community and the innocent children of these people are protected.

But my position is short-sighted? What a larf.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

79. Let's see,

you espouse a position that would encourage people to illegal immigrate to the US in order to receive health care, and I believe the law should be enforced or changed, and providing health care to people who are in this country legally should be the priority, but my position is short-sighted?

Personally, I thought it was sufficient for each of us to state their position without resorting to personal insults, and I am not proud of the fact that after you did so twice, I sunk to your level and responded in kind.

[Dookus]

80. I think the mistake

is that you presume that people are willing to uproot their lives, cross a desert and live a life of desperation in order to get a flu shot.

I don't think that's true. I think there are MANY reasons people come here illegally, almost none of them having to do with health care.

I did not insult you personally. I have always liked you here and respected your positions. I insulted your position on this issue, though, because I sincerely find it short-sighted and simple-minded.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

83. I think the mistake

is when you try to state my position for me, instead of responding to my actual words.


you presume that people are willing to uproot their lives, cross a desert and live a life of desperation in order to get a flu shot.

No, I don't presume that, which is why I didn't say that. You said it and attempted to insert it into my mouth.

[Maddy McCall]

100. If people migrated just for better health care, then all US citizens would

move north to Canada.

[sadiesworld]

101. If the monkey manages to steal the vote in November...

:shrug:

[-..__...]

66. I'm sorry, but no (with limitations).

I have no problem if it's a dire immediate life threatening emergency and limited follow-up care to ensure the patient is out of danger. Other than that... no to continued treatment, rehabilitation, therapy or preventive health care (unless the person has a communicable disease that poses a serious public health risk).

There's always been much praise and admiration on DU with regards to the health care system in other nations (Europe, Canada, Australia, etc).

However, all (someone correct me if I'm wrong), require some form of legal citizenship to reap the benefits and/or a set number of years in legal residence to be eligible for those benefits.

Some require proof of a clean bill of health (and age limitations), to even enter their borders "legally". What health coverage do "illegal"... "undocumented aliens" have?

The health care system in this country is a bloated, expensive, bureaucratic mess.

Before we take care of anyone else, we should take care of ourselves first.

[napi21]

67. I heard a great suggestion yesterday.

I can't remember where I heard it, but someone said we should continue to provide emergency health care to all people, but we should bill their home country for the care of illegals. Shrub is always talking about what a great friend Vincente Fox is, and how well they help each other. Well, here is a solution that would help the citizens of Mexico & the US.

[Dookus]

70. Then we should also

refund the taxes paid by these workers for services they are unable to collect on.

A big ol' check is headed down Mexico way.

[depakid]

84. Have any other countries billed the US?

Like say, Costa Rica- or any nation in the EU? or Canada, Australia or New Zealand?

Obviously, that's a rhetorical question- and one which only arises because the US- alone among nations- and with far beyond the means, chooses irrational for profit health care and has so many citizens who (take pride in the fact that they?) rarely if ever travel abroad.

[Djinn]

95. good point

maybe Canada could start billing the US for all those American citizens who cross THAT border in order to access cheap pharmacueticals that are paid for by Canadian taxpayers - come to think of it don't plenty of Americans also travel to Mexico to buy cheap drugs - better have them all arrested.

[Fescue4u]

73. No. They should be treated and sent home

To their own country that is.

[Dookus]

75. More simple-minded arguments

if you stop and think for half a second, it might occur to you that deporting people who seek health-care will cause people NOT to seek health-care when necessary.

But what's a little tuberculosis in the community as long as those annoying brown folk aren't stealing your lettuce-picking job.

[Fescue4u]

78. If they choose not to seek treatment

Thats hardly anyones fault but that of the criminal.

Did you know that doctors must report gun shot wounds? This sometimes has the side affect of capturing bank robbers and gang bangers.

Criminals accept many risks when they choose to break the law. If risking free healthcare is one of them, they could choose to pay for their care, or maybe..just maybe not break the law in the first place.

Im quite willing to pay to patch'm up, and the cost of the bus ride home.

[Dookus]

81. and are you willing to accept

an increase in communicable diseases? Are you willing for infants born here (thus making them citizens) to NOT have access to vaccinations and other health care?

[Fescue4u]

88. babies born here would be fine

SInce they are citizens.

Sadly, communicable diseases is already a problem in the illegal community so I doubt that it would get much worse.

Besides, they are only hurting themselves.

Its their choice, Its my money. What more can you ask?

[depakid]

82. Did you ever consider

that some people may want a bus ride home? or a plane ticket?

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php?page=border_news&story_id=071304a1_repatriation

If so, it seems to me that you're providing an incentive for what on one hand you'd like to prevent.

[Fescue4u]

87. Excellent then

Whatever it takes to send criminals home, and open up jobs for our own citizens.

[Booster]

89. Well, you've certainly learned one thing from

Bush; repeat your ideas until we all throw up our hands and say "Ok, you're right". This thread has become boring.

[Dookus]

90. I see

and yet the other side repeating THEIR side again and again isn't Bush-like?

What a stupid statement. When you apply your criticism to ALL sides, only then can you claim to be better than Bush.

[burrowowl]

76. Health care should not

be denied to anyone!
The rich only started caring at one point when TB started hitting them. A well populace is the health of a nation.

[eleny]

93. Not until the VA is fully funded

Not until every veteran is given the medical care they need.

[depakid]

94. Seems to me that many Vets and refuges have things in common

Both are unappreciated and neither seem to policymakers to have any further usefulness.

I'm guessing that means some Vets and some refuges from places like Central America (especially innocents who happened to be "in the wrong place at the wrong time") see things similarly.

Just a thought- maybe a good one, maybe not. I'm not a veteran or a refuge.

[Dookus]

96. it's a zero-sum game?

So an undocumented immigrant with tuberculosis should be ignored until major institutional changes are made in the VA?

I agree that we should fully fund the VA. I just don't see how providing medical care to immigrants has an impact on that.

[nomatrix]

107. You are in favor of Mexicans

crossing the border, yet you make no mention of Asians, Middle Eastern decent, etc. So it is just mexicans who deserve the shots?

[nomatrix]

108. Let's look at what has happened in the U.K.

http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/poverty.htm

"The evidence is clear: the multiculturalists are lying when they say that Third World immigration has and will benefit Britain economically and socially.

The truth, solidly documented above, shows the exact opposite: namely:

- London, which has borne the brunt of Third World immigration into the UK, has some of the most severe poverty issues in the UK;

- London, which has borne the brunt of Third World immigration into the UK, has pro-rata, the highest unemployment rate in the UK;

- London, which has borne the brunt of Third World immigration into the UK, has and continues to cost the British taxpayer a massive amount in terms of social support services;

The inescapable conclusion is that Third World immigration does not bring prosperity, but in fact imports large-scale poverty.

Only a halting, and reversal, of the immigration policies of the past few decades can prevent this problem from threatening the very existence of Britain as a First World nation."

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tight_rope]

103. Hell No...We need to treat everyone....never know what they might have!

For the dumbass who are responding that we should not treat them. I saw that they should re-think their thoughts.

What if an illegal alien arrives in the US carrying a deadly airborne virus like the Ebola virus. Think about how many more people will dead from that person not been able to seek care.

Even if that person dies at least we will know what he/she dead from and be able to contain the damage before it becomes even more wide spread and many more dead then necessary.

[The Straight Story]

109. The Good Samaritan

The whole thing reminds me of the story of the good samaritan in some ways, but with a twist. Jesus' views seemed more geared to how individuals would treat one another, but in this case we are bringing a political group (government) into it. Would I help others out? Yes. Should I take funds (taxes) from others and make them use them based on my beliefs/philosophy? If the core belief of the society holds that such is a moral and right thing to do then it will occur without much disagreement in the public forum.

All will not agree, some will say don't blame the US for failing to do so, hit the leaders of the originating countries up and get them to change (ie, instead of harping on our people and the way we run things get to the core of the problem in their country and try to fix it). If leaders there aren't doing crap about it, complain about them first (I am simply trying to show a few sides of the issue here), it seems we complain all day long about the failings of our government and shrug off the rest of the world's leaders. We are not their policemen, and we are not their doctors.

My own self, I would treat whomever I could. I don't care if a kid is here illegally or not, bringing a little joy to them is more important than money any day of the week. I can speak for my money in this regards, but forcing others to believe the same is a different story. It thus falls to defining right and wrong on a social level, and getting the masses (who will be paying the bill) to agree.

[Darranar]

110. No; all humans deserve health care. n/t

[Endangered Specie]

111. we need a Health care system like in Europe, for all... I voted no.

try not to look too suprised.

[bleedingheart]

112. It's the only perk they really get

otherwise they work for less and risk deportation all the time...

all in the name of Capitalism

[Sterling]

113. No but it should come with a ticket home.

As soon as they are well enough to travel.

[genius]

114. Prop 187 led to a TB epidemic in Orange County, CA