Oil at $48.20, biodiesel NOW

[DrWho]

http://www.biodiesel.org/

And only Kerry has mentioned it.

08/06/04
Kerry Calls for Biodiesel Plan
The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) and the American Soybean Association (ASA) today commended Democratic Presidential nominee John Kerry for including broad renewable fuel provisions in his energy plan. The plan includes a biodiesel tax incentive to help diversify America’s energy supply.

[Ghetto_Boy]

1. A friend of mine has biodiesel... loves it. I prefer windmills and electri

[glitch]

2. It's all good - we need a mix of alternatives nt

[DrWho]

3. Windmills

Windmills high in the air, they tend to kill birds a bit too often.

[treepig]

4. indeed, something like 90 birds a year

in comparison, domestic cats kill some 2,000,000,000 birds/year in the usa (ok, that's an exaggeration, see below).

but who's counting

on edit: here's some actual information:

The often-cited worst case for windmills is Altamont Pass in California where many hawks and eagles have been killed. But even at Altamont, an early windmill location with technology and turbine proximity judged inappropriate today, the Center for Biological Diversity's lawsuit against its operators states: "We are not suggesting closing the Altamont wind farms, rather that turbine owners take reasonable measures to reduce bird kills and adequately compensate for impacts to imperiled bird populations."



Fortunately birds simply avoid the blades of the newer wind turbines.

who'd ever thunk it that birds aren't completely stupid?



Studies at more recently designed wind farms tell us that bird mortality at windmills is very low. A summary indicates that the average number of birds killed annually across North America is between one and two per turbine. Arguably the best of the intensive studies was carried out by Canadian Ross James. His year-long field work at a Toronto wind turbine sited in the middle of a fall migration route turned up three birds killed. He also watched birds change course to avoid the turbine blades, an observation shared by many other observers. His final conclusion: "The greatest threat to all wildlife is still loss and/or degradation of habitat."



Against this data we have scare statements like one from a dedicated hawk-watcher in the Chautauqua town of Ripley: "If a bird doesn't get killed in Ripley, he may get killed in Rochester, if not there then at Derby Hill, Prince Edward Island, Toronto...." Statements like this together with intensive lobbying by such deeply concerned birders is deterring the development of wind farms.



But consider what development at Ripley would mean. Over 20,000 hawks, vultures and eagles pass that location each spring to say nothing of passerine migrants. If 35 wind turbines were erected there (more than the number contemplated), the national average would suggest annual deaths of about 60 birds of all species, an infinitesimal fraction of the total number traversing that region.

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw04/0509Windmills.htm

and now to the cats


http://www.mammal.org.uk/catkills.htm

The Mammal Society has just completed a survey of the kinds and numbers of animals that are killed by domestic cats. Michael Woods has produced a summary of the results of the survey which ran for the 5 months up to August 31 1997.

We received the kill or capture records of 964 cats, amounting to more than 14,000 prey items. The mean number of catches or kills per cat over the five month period was 16.7 which gives an annual average per cat of 40 victims. Multiplying the pet industry's estimate of 7.5 million domestic cats by 40 suggests that the British cat population could be killing at least 300 million animals and birds every year.

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw98/cats.html

Estimates of the number of birds killed annually by the 40 million North American domestic cats allowed outside range from a conservative 55 million to well over a billion.

[DrWho]

5. well, not to get into an argument

But we would need a hell of a lot more windmills to run a major city.

Think ahead.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. And how much land would be needed to grow crops for biodiesel?

It works out at about the entire US agricultural land (arable and pasture) to support the current US use of diesel and gasoline.

Like wind power, biodiesel can be a component of energy policy, but it will never solve the problems on its own.

[DrWho]

9. and that

"It works out at about the entire US agricultural land (arable and pasture) to support the current US use of diesel and gasoline."

And that would put a lot of farmers back to work.

It's not like all our food is grown in the USA.

[NickB79]

22. Our food exports FAR outweigh our food imports

That's why the US is called the breadbasket of the world: we supply massive amounts of grain and other food to countries around the world. The foods that we import are mainly foods we cannot grow here, such as tropical fruits and vegetables. Our staples, such as corn, wheat, potatoes and oats, are all produced in the US. We can't simply replace our fields of grain with fields of diesel and then think we can import all our food. Where else would the food come from? The loss of the US grain and crop export industry would destroy the world economy, not to mention starve million.

As to putting farmers back to work, the reason most farmers have lost their land is because they were outcompeted by factory farms running thousands upon thousands of acres of land at a time. If we start producing significant amounts of biodiesel, I have a hard time believing that that will put small family farms back in business. It will only add more 10,000 acre megafarms, so the number of farmers put back into business would be minimal.

The problem is that our nation simply uses too much fuel, end of story. What we have to do is cut our fuel usage DRASTICALLY while at the same time using more biofuels. We would also have to drastically reduce our meat consumption, since meat production is so much more land-intensive than grain production. We would have to reinvest and greatly expand public transportation, and rebuild entire cities to integrate living areas with business areas to reduce commuting. In this case we can't have our cake and eat it too.

[Zynx]

6. Wind technology as it currently exists is not efficient.

I think we should focus on getting fusion power.

[DrWho]

7. well

"I think we should focus on getting fusion power."

That's a pipe dream though and very expensive and decades perhaps from being used.

biodiesel is here now, working with any diesel engine, saves the environment and will create jobs

[GumboYaYa]

11. The data I have seen shows the cost of windpower in the

range of $0.03 to $0.06 per kilowatt hour. The cost from other sources is typically in the range of $0.02 to $0.05 per kilowatt hour (and that is without factoring in environmental costs). The problem is getting the electricity generated by wind onto the power grid. It seems that with a push and an investment in the power grid, windpower could be competitive with other sources. It seems like a better investment than pouring it down a hole in Iraq.

[hatrack]

10. There is no single magic bullet - that's the bottom line

It's going to take wind and biodiesel and solar and biomass and hydroelectric and hemp and tidal and public transportation and changes in zoning laws and one hell of a lot of conservation and efficiency all going at the same time.

It's also going to take a long time to convert, and it's going to take a lot of action beginning NOW. We don't get a "do-over" on this one.

[DrWho]

12. good point

Hemp would actually produce much more oil within smaller swaths of land.

But lets not let logic get in the way of progress!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. More than what?

Hemp yield: 39 gallons/acre
Rapeseed yield: 127 gallons/acre

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

[DrWho]

14. then use

then use rapeseed!

[DrWho]

15. .....

oil palm 635 Gallons/ Acre!

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. It might be a solution for the tropics

but if you look further down that page, you find that palm oil has a high melting point, that would make it unsuitable for temperate climates. Plus I doubt you can get a decent yield from temperate climates.

Hemp too might be part of the solution - its other uses might make it a good crop in some places. I think the quickest way to decrease the problems of expensive oil is to use less, though - lighter cars (not SUVs), encouraging use of bicycles (would a dress down policy help this?), better home insulation, etc.

[NickB79]

20. They both have their places

Rapeseed can be grown where the soil is rich and well-suited for general crop use, while hemp can outproduce in in poorer soils with less input from fuel-burning tractors and application of fuel-derived pesticides and fertilizers.

[Shallah Kali]

16. Exactly! We need to use all current options and create new ones

I have read of vehicles modified to run on used cooking oil. Just think of the number of cars that could run on the oil from McDonalds alone! Again this alone won't solve the problem but it would help.

[Peak_Oil]

17. No kidding.

You can convert a diesel vehicle to burn vegetable oil fairly easily, and if memory serves, it costs about $1000. Not too bad, considering that once it's done you can use recycled oil from fryers, etc. Most restaurants actually pay someone to come and haul their old cooking oil away. You could charge for coming to pick up their oil, filter it, and run it in your car.

I have a three-month goal to save up for a Mercedes diesel and veggie kit so I can do this myself. An 80's diesel Merc runs about $3K in my area, and the kit's another $650 plus installation. I think I can pull it off.

As far as actually solving the impending Peak Oil crisis, I'm fairly sure than nothing significant will be done by the Powers that Be to help us. I think we're pretty much on our own as far as that goes. 20% renewables in ten years? We'll be extremely fortunate to see that happen. Too many lobbying groups spend too much money on keeping the status quo happy.

For the long term, I expect that with or without biodiesel, ethanol, electric cars, light rail systems (never gonna happen in a big way), solar power, wind power, etc.... we'll see our way of consumer lifestyle degenerate over the next decade until we see early capitalism rear its ugly head again. The few will own the many.

It's very sad.

[GumboYaYa]

19. I'm in the process of converting to Biodesel with

a schedule close to yours. Where have you found the kit for $695? Does the "kit" include the cleaner and scrubber ofr the vegetable oil and the mixer for the Methanol? Also, how are you going to produce Methanol or do you plan on buying it?

I have already talked to a couple of local restaurants and they are more than happy to give me their used vegetable oil.

[Peak_Oil]

23. Biodiesel vs Veggie oil

Biodiesel is veggie oil processed with heat and lye, among other things. Biodiesel can be poured directly into the fuel tank of a diesel vehicle and burned exactly as it is.

Veggie conversion entails installing a second fuel tank and a fuel line switch. Veggie cars have a tank of (plain old) diesel plus a tank of veggie oil. Veggie drivers start their vehicles with diesel, and when the engine temperature is above some level that I can't think of at the moment then they switch fuel sources to use the veggie oil that is in the second tank.

Biodiesel = Standard vehicle, treated fuel
Veggie = Modified vehicle, untreated fuel

http://www.otgconsulting.com/veggie.html

http://www.lclark.edu/~jprindle/kitcomparison.html

[GumboYaYa]

24. I'm going to buy a used diesel truck and make my own biodiesel.

I have looked at the equipment to clean the used oil and mix the methanol. Most of the units I have seen for producing the biodiesel cost around $2,000. I have also seen plans for self-built cleaners and mixers, but I feel more comfortabe with something that is tried and true rather than building it myself.

[Gregorian]

21. bicycles

And immediately I hear people thinking, "but how can I commute 100 miles each way?". That's my point. This isn't just a one digit fix. First, people need to stop hmmmmmmmnnnning (insert the word that I can't say out loud, because it's too much to think about). Then they need to live near where they work. Then they need to stop travelling so much. Then they need to stop consuming so much.

So basically, I'm an asshole who just wants to live like people lived before 1900. Or someone who just wants to give advice. Or full of shit. Or perhaps someone who's thinking that maybe someone else would like to live on this planet after WE do.

The bottom line is, we can only engineer so much. AND our standard of living is going to have to change. And combusting fuel is not an option, unless one doesn't care about tomorrow.