Sibel Edmonds translated Farsi

[shraby]

and Farsi is spoken here.

<http://www.farsinet.com/farsi/>

[robertpaulsen]

1. Speaking of Sibel Edmonds, here's the Norville transcript.

I thought you might like to read this, shraby. Edmonds and Rowley. Good to see you're keeping up the Edmonds focus!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5758722/

[shraby]

2. I was thinking Farsi was Turkey and

was surprised that it's Iran and a section of Afghanistan. It was Farsi she brought out, s'pose that could be a clue?
I'd like to bring back the Edmonds parts. Do you happen to have saved them? If not, I think they are in numbers 18, 19 and 20.
I was hoping you'd see this thread.<G>

By the way, this needs kicked. :kick:

[robertpaulsen]

3. Good idea.

I do have them saved, so I'll compile the goodies.

Yeah, I didn't know that about Iran and Afghanistan. I believe Pallas said that Edmonds also dealt with Azerbaijan. That might be important.

:kick:

[donkeyotay]

4. don't overlook Pakistan

From the link you gave:

Persian is spoken today primarily in Iran, Afghanistan, but was historically a more widely understood language in an area ranging from the Middle East to India. Significant populations of speakers in other Persian Gulf countries (Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, People's Democratic Republic of Yemen, and the United Arab Emirates), as well as large communities in the USA.

Total numbers of speakers is high: over 30 million Farsi speakers (about 50% of Iran's population); over 7 million Dari Persian speakers in Afghanistan (25% of the population); and about 2 million Dari Persian speakers in Pakistan.

[shraby]

5. I noticed that. I was thinking

since Iran has the largest population of Farsi speaking people, whatever leads into Turkey/Iran is probably a good lead to follow. Have you seen our work on Plame? We followed that all over and particulary into Pakistan/Afghanistan.

[shraby]

6. Sibel's other leads were drugs, arms

and gems.

[Pallas180]

7. Schaby - Gems?

I dont remember her saying anything in her interview on tv about gems although we know OBL has Tanzanite mines....was she interviewed someplace else where she mentioned it?

Wonder if she was talking about diamonds. I understand a lot of the
Eastern people trade or travel with diamonds.

Anything more on it?

[shraby]

8. I'll check I think the interview was on

antiwar.com.

[shraby]

10. Here is the pertinent parts of one interview

(snip)
CD: Now I know you speak Turkish – but what else?

SE: Because of my time in Iran, I also know Farsi. And Azerbaijani.

CD: Which is fairly close to Turkish.

SE: Yes, a Turkic language.

(snip)

CD: In a fascinating recent interview with Breakfornews.com, you say that with the synoptic view you acquired at the FBI, the "picture" of non-state organized crime linked with state institutions becomes "crystal clear." For the benefit of our readers, let me just re-quote one of your statements

(snip)

CD: In a fascinating recent interview with Breakfornews.com, you say that with the synoptic view you acquired at the FBI, the "picture" of non-state organized crime linked with state institutions becomes "crystal clear." For the benefit of our readers, let me just re-quote one of your statements:

(snip)

Criminal Infiltration: The Mysterious "Semi-Legitimate Organizations"

"ou have network of people who obtain certain information and they take it out and sell it to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East, and their connections. is only then that you really see the big picture."

At several points you state that such organized crime networks employ "semi-legitimate organizations" as their point of interface with governments and the "legit" world. Can you explain exactly what you mean?

SE: These are organizations that might have a legitimate front – say as a business, or a cultural center or something. And we've also heard a lot about Islamic charities as fronts for terrorist organizations, but the range is much broader and even, simpler.

CD: For example?

SE: You might have an organization supposed to be promoting the cultural affairs of a certain country within another country. Hypothetically, say, an Uzbek folklore society based in Germany. The stated purpose would be to hold folklore-related activities – and they might even do that – but the real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal.

CD: Such as?

SE: Everything – from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences with all these activities and international terrorism.

CD: So with these organizations we're talking about a lot of money –

SE: Huge, just massive. They don't deal with 1 million or 5 million dollars, but with hundreds of millions.

CD: From your previous testimony and the examples I want to bring up next, it would seem that organized crime with terrorist links is really holding the reins inside powerful governments, even the American one. No?

SE: That may be, but I don't know. I didn't get high enough up on the ladder to find out. With all of this suspicious and unprecedented "state secrets" obstructionism from Ashcroft, it might seem that way, but I don't have any direct information.

CD: But what do think, within departments such as the Pentagon and the State Department. Do you suspect certain high officials may be profiting from terrorist-linked organized crime?

SE: I can't say anything specific with regards to these departments, because I didn't work for them. But as for the politicians, what I can say is that when you start talking about huge amounts of money, certain elected officials become automatically involved. And there are different kinds of campaign contributions – legal and illegal, declared and undeclared.

CD: Could this apparent toleration of dangerous criminal groups in the midst possibly be interpreted to mean that American policy is driven by the "ends justify the means" philosophy?

SE: But how are the ends possibly met by such activities? To this day, I just can't see how. What is happening does not benefit 99.9 percent of Americans – just a very small elite.

I'm no expert, but from what I have personally seen I can say that our national security is being compromised every day, because important investigations are being stopped, and potentially important clues are being overlooked. It's absolutely incredible that even after 9/11, certain individuals, foreign businessmen and others, among others, are still escaping scrutiny.

Okay, perhaps talking about the pre-9/11 world they could get away with saying "we didn't know," but to continue doing so – I mean, what if we are attacked by nuclear or chemical weapons, what will be their next excuse? That "we didn't know" it could happen? Come on! I can prove they are lying, because they know.

<http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=2917>

I'll check breakfornews.com

[robertpaulsen]

9. Here's some thread 19 Edmonds-related info.

RebelYell (467 posts) Fri Aug-13-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message

28. Here's the Ellsberg & Edmonds press conference


Per RP's inquiry (My apologies if it's been posted previously)

Whistleblowers ask federal workers to come forward with 9/11 evidence

US Newswire
GoveExec -June 14

Two government whistleblowers on Monday called on federal workers to come forward if they have information that could help investigations of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The request was made by Sibel Edmonds, a former FBI translator who alleges that the government knew more details about the 9/11 plot than it has admitted, and Daniel Ellsberg, a former Marine who leaked the Pentagon Papers about the Vietnam War to the media in 1971.

"If there are people right now who know either the same information that Sibel had and believe that it's wrongfully being withheld, or comparable information, then I believe that they should go to Congress, but also to the press and put that out even at great risk to their careers," said Ellsberg, who gave the Pentagon Papers to Congress and the media. "Many, many lives are at stake here, and it's well worth telling the truth, even at personal sacrifice."...

Edmonds, a Turkish-American, worked in the FBI's Washington field office from Sept. 20, 2001, to March 2002 as a contract linguist. She was given top-secret security clearance and hired to retranslate material that was collected prior to Sept. 11 to determine if anything was missed in the translations relating to the plot. She concluded that documents clearly showed that the 9/11 hijackers were in the country and plotting to use airplanes as missiles to carry out an attack in a major city. She said documents also included information relating to terrorist financial activities.

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=427


Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-14-04 04:20 AM
Response to Original message

51. SIBEL EDMONDS SAID

Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 04:22 AM by Pallas180
"Here are those Edmonds quotes,

“There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities combined with money laundering and information laundering, converging with your terrorist activities.” Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?



"The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope, in ways that form a "crystal clear" picture of what was going on.” --Sibel Edmonds.


"You have a network of people who obtain certain information and they take it out and sell it to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East, and their connections. It is only then that you really see the big picture. The post-9/11 ntelligence 'failures' included the willful quashing by the government, of investigations tracing these criminal networks.-- Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


“The real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal… Everything from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences (between) these activities and international terrorism." -Sibel Edmonds

“After almost three years the American people still do not know that thousands of lives can be jeopardized under the unspoken policy of ‘ protecting certain foreign business relations.” —Sibel Edmonds


WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-14-04 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #51

53. WHO ? WHAT ?

Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 05:37 AM by Pallas180
Whether you are solving a question or writing a story, the questions
you ask are: Who, What, When, Where, Why.

On the 18 Plame threads, we've done a lot of WHY? and have come up with a salient theory of the Why?.

The Why of Plame has brought us also to Sibel Edmonds.

In the same way we found the answers to Plame on the internet through googling and finding published responsbile sources, we should be able to find answers and secrets involving Edmonds' "forbidden information.

Except - in the Edmonds matter we know Why? - we are searching for Who?, What?, and Where?

Our clues to what she may have discovered (which caused her to be fired and threatened not to talk to the media or any senators and prompted FBI Director Mueller to have DOJ Ashcroft place a gag order on her) are in Sibel Edmonds' own words, in the interview above, and
even more so in this interview:

http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=2917


Somewhere in the fact that Sibel Edmonds was a translator of the Iranian Farsi language and the Turkish language and the Turkic language of Azerbaijani, are our clues to Who? and What? and even Where? .

What are the answers to Who and What and Where she is referring?


loudsue (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-14-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #53

62. Well, let's try to put some pieces in to fill in the blanks...


g'mornin Plamers!

From Pallas' post a few posts up from here on Sibel Edmonds quotes:

“There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities We know that the bush family/Poppy bush CIA is heavily into the drug trade.combined with money laundering We also know that Jonathan Bush's Riggs Bank has recently been indicted and charged w/ $$ laundering, and had to close their Florida-based (Jeb Bush) international banking dept. and information laundering Again Poppy's CIA has plenty of information to launder, if they so desire. Also, Cheney's Halliburton, and Rumsfeld's former company (I can't remember the name right now...ABB?), and Carlyle ALL have access to nuclear weapons information, as well as components and weapons information. We also know that Chalabi, through his relationship w/ the boys in the Pentegon (Perle, Wolfowitz) was telling Iran all kinds of cute military secrets, during the same time frame that Iran is developing a nuke -- in fact, that's where Chalabi is staying on vacation as we write this...Iran), converging with your terrorist activities.” And here we're back to Iran again, and their relationship with fundamentalists and terrorists, and Kahn's nuclear Wal-Mart, both through Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?



"The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope,We already know that the drug $$ is coming from the drug cartel that bush took over (stole) from the Medallin cartel in Columbia, under the guise of "the war on drugs" that he raged while in office.

Poppy, surely, was also wanting Afghanistan to start growing his poppies again, as the Taliban had been cutting into his profits by outlawing poppies. The bush family and ancestors had been in the poppy (opium) business since the late 1800's.

His oil company buddies also wanted to build the pipeline across Afghanistan, and in the early days of dubya's regime, pre 9/11, shrub had offered the Taliban "a carpet of gold, or a carpet of bombs"; and shrub also had the war plans against the Taliban on his desk prior to 9/11.

Since we also know that Muslim fundamentalists in Pakistan/Afghanistan had been rubbing elbows with Kahn's more fundamentalist nuclear scientists, I strongly suspect that part of dubya's threat/bargain to the Taliban had come to a head (mafia war) concerning not only oil, but poppies, as well. The Taliban, I believe, prolly wasn't ONLY using the pipeline as a bargaining chip (to get WMD components and the means to launch/use them), but possibly the poppies, as well....which I think pissed off Poppy and his family/business partners.

I also wonder if the "war lord" dubya planned to put in at the head of the new Afghani government -- the guy who got killed just as we were going to war w/ Afghanistan/Taliban, might have been Poppy's former DRUG lord connection there as well, which is prolly why some thug from the other side of the equation bumped him off. Then the bush cartel had to shop around, and they put in Karzai instead. A lot of this was also involving the "istans" (Uzbekistan, etc) adjacent to Afghanistan.
in ways that form a "crystal clear" picture of what was going on.” --Sibel Edmonds.


"You have a network of people who obtain certain information Kahn, CIA, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Feith, Chalabiand they take it out and sell it for drug $$ and poppy-growing rights, and oil rights (pipeline, which was supposed to bail out Enron, since they had already invested so much) to … whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East (bush clan, CIA, Mena), and their connections. It is only then that you really see the big picture. The post-9/11 ntelligence 'failures' included the willful quashing by the government (bush), of investigations tracing these criminal networks.-- Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?


“The real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal… Everything from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And I also believe these arms sales were funding the opposition to the Chavez government in Venezuela, as well as other coups around the world. And yes, there are certain convergences (between) these activities and international terrorism." -Sibel Edmonds

“After almost three years the American people still do not know that thousands of lives can be jeopardized under the unspoken policy of ‘ protecting certain foreign business relations.” —Sibel Edmonds

Here she's also talking about Saudi Arabia's bin Laden family, as well as the Saudi royals. It also includes, no doubt, Pakistan's Musharref.


WHO IS SHE REFERRING TO ?

<loudsue: speculating, brainstorming>

Ok....NOW the questions about WHY the drug/oil/nuke mafia war that brought about 9/11. We have to ask some peripheral questions also. Is ANY segment of these wars about some kind of nationalism vs. globalism on the part of any of these groups? We KNOW the PNACers are globalists. We know Muslims are "homeland" traditionalists. Their religious beliefs are tied to their Holy Lands. Nothing, NOTHING is "holy" to the bush cartel except $$ and power. Could this be where the bush cartel failed to consider the culture of the other players, and ran afoul of their negotiations due to cultural miscalculation? After all -- 9/11 was an attack on what would represent a bush family "holy shrine".

And yet...fully KNOWING the WTC was the target of the Muslim retaliation, the bush cartel allowed the bombing to engage the U.S. taxpayers in their little drug/global war. In fact, there's overwhelming evidence that they even 'helped it along' some .... like allowing the apparent demolition-style collapse of both WTC buildings, and the seemingly (?) unrelated #7 WTC, as well as the strange situation at the pentagon bombing.

Ok. That's all I could come up with. Russia, Malaysia, Syria, Turkey (concerning the Kurds, who figure in here somehow)....all these play a part as well, but I'm just trying to look for a framework.

Feel free to pick all of this apart....add, subtract....it's just a start.



RebelYell (467 posts) Sat Aug-14-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message

67. Judge in Sibel Edmonds case has ties to Bush administration

Edited on Sat Aug-14-04 04:06 PM by RebelYell
~~~~~~~~

"...William Bennett called Judge Walton and, much to Walton’s surprise, offered him the number two spot in the Drug Czar’s office. Walton spent the next two years traveling over a half-million miles, spreading the Bush Administration’s anti-drug message across the country. When Florida Governor Bob Martinez took over as Drug Czar in 1991, Walton was made the Senior White House Advisor on Crime to President Bush and was then reappointed by Bush to the D.C. Superior Court."

~~~~~~~~

More here:
http://www.justicepolicy.org/article.php?id=319

Judge Walton's bio paints him as an upstanding guy that worked his way up. However, his ties to the Bush administration are glaringly obvious to me.

Edit to correct



More to come later. Sorry it took so long, work has been busy and this didn't go through the first time.

[shraby]

11. I checked the breakfornews.com

and essentially the same thing is on it, no gems or diamonds, but drugs and money laundering:

Edmonds also indicated that the FBI's translation service had been penetrated by an intelligence group not linked to any government.

"Intelligence is also gathered by certain semi-legitimate organizations --to be used for their activities," said Edmonds. "It really does not boil down to countries anymore...< > When you have activities involving a lot of money, you have people from different nations involved.... It can be categorized under organized crime, but in a very large scale."


Because of a provisional gag order issued by Judge Reggie B. Walton which prohibits revealing specific details, Edmonds can only paint a picture in the broadest of brush strokes.

But her measured words hint at politically explosive connections between criminal drug/intelligence networks, and the 9/11 attacks.

"You have network of people who obtain certain information and they take it out and sell it to... whomever would be the highest bidder. Then you have people who would be bringing into the country narcotics from the East, and their connections. is only then that you really see the big picture."

"And you see certain semi-legitimate organizations that may very well have a legit front, but with very criminal illegitimate activities --who start coming at you from these investigations."

"And the picture becomes, actually, very clear. Crystal clear."

<http://www.breakfornews.com/Sibel-Edmonds-Story.htm>

There is quite a bit on this site, but it's pretty much a rehash of other interviews.

[Pallas180]

99. ISI and

Russian mafia are famous for dealing drugs.

Did we ever follow up on those two names of the people who disappeared
after she reported them? The husband was in the army and the wife
was in her department.

[shraby]

108. I tried but couldn't find anything.

their last name was Dickerson I think. He was Doug Dickerson and hers was ??? Can Dickerson.

[shraby]

12. Not only are ties to Bush obvious,

look at what department. If her testimony involves drugs and money laundering, I would think he'd be the first one to want her testimony opened up.

[shraby]

13. Google Iran + poppy

there is a buncha info.
You can get the feel of the scope of it here:

<http://mondediplo.com/2002/03/13drug>

[Pallas180]

14. Schraby, on #20 we found the Aberzjain Chamber of Commerce

and Cheney and some other well known names were on it.

First I laughed, at the thought of Cheney on the Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce, and wondered why he would be there , and then
you posted something above that Sibel Edmonds said, and I think it's a bingo:

Criminal Infiltration: The Mysterious "Semi-Legitimate Organizations"

DN: At several points you state that such organized crime networks employ "semi-legitimate organizations" as their point of interface with governments and the "legit" world. Can you explain exactly what you mean?

SE: These are organizations that might have a legitimate front – say as a business, or a cultural center or something. And we've also heard a lot about Islamic charities as fronts for terrorist organizations, but the range is much broader and even, simpler.

CD: For example?

SE: You might have an organization supposed to be promoting the cultural affairs of a certain country within another country. Hypothetically, say, an Uzbek folklore society based in Germany. The stated purpose would be to hold folklore-related activities – and they might even do that – but the real activities taking place behind the scenes are criminal.

CD: Such as?

SE: Everything – from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences with all these activities and international terrorism.

CD: So with these organizations we're talking about a lot of money –

SE: Huge, just massive. They don't deal with 1 million or 5 million dollars, but with hundreds of millions.
********

What could be a better cover than a Chamber of Commerce, which is supposed to promote business? a semi-legitimate promoting the cultural affairs.

Unless I'm mistaken there were Pakistanis on the Azerbaijan Chamber of
Commerce also.

I'll try to find my post.

[Pallas180]

15. Take a deep breath and look at the membership:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=US-Azerbaijan_Chamber_of_Commerce#Officers


US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce

According to the official web site, United States-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce (USACC) is an "independent, non-profit American organization, whose purpose is to facilitate business and cooperation between the American people and the people of Azerbaijan." USACC is a nonprofit corporation in the District of Columbia and is recognized as a 501 (c)(6) tax-exempt organization under the Internal Revenue Code.


Table of contents
1 Goals

2 Azerbaijan Trade and Cultural Center

2.1 Officers

3 Contact

4 External Links




Goals
The stated goals of the USACC are:


To facilitate and encourage trade and investment in Azerbaijan;

To provide a forum for members to interact with policy makers from Azerbaijan and the United States as well as with non-governmental experts.

To serve as a liaison with governmental and non-governmental entities, business organizations, think tanks, and to encourage cooperation and information exchange;

To provide reliable information and networking services and create an environment where partnerships and exchanges thrive;

To sponsor educational programs, trade missions, seminars, conferences and publications to foster cultural and business interests;

To create more understanding and knowledge about the Republic of Azerbaijan in the United States through the Azerbaijan Trade and Cultural Center; and

To develop and maintain humanitarian programs for the refugee population of Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan Trade and Cultural Center
The USACC also owns and operates The Azerbaijan Trade and Cultural Center, which is a "four-story historic building ... located in the heart of Georgetown at 1212 Potomac Street." The Azerbaijan Trade and Cultural Center was inaugurated by His Excellency Heydar Aliyev, President, Republic of Azerbaijan on September 11, 2000.


Officers
Honorary Council of Advisors

James Addison Baker III
Lloyd Bentsen
Zbigniew Brzezinski
Richard Bruce Dick Cheney (resigned November 2000)

Henry Kissinger
Brent Scowcroft
John Sununu
Chairman Emeritus

T. Don Stacy
Co-Chairman of the Board

Tim Cejka
Reza Vaziri
Vice-Chairman of the Board

James A. Baker IV
Board of Directors

Richard Armitage (resigned February 2001)

Farhad Azima
Betty Blair
Howard Chase
Don Condon
Stanley Escudero
Nader Fahm
Andrew Fawthrop
Mike Kostiw
David Sambrooks
Gregory K. Williams
Board of Trustees

Abdullah Akyuz
Ilham Aliyev
Graham Allison
Sam Brownback
Frank Henke
Richard Moncrief
Hafiz Pashayev
Richard N. Perle
Joseph R. Pitts
John Roberts
Stephen Robertson
Nancy Tuomey
Frank Verrastro
Officers

Theodore Ted Jonas, Legal Counsel & Secretary

Karl Mattison, Treasurer

Seymour Khalilov, Executive Director


Contact
US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce
1212 Potomac Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20007
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]
http://www.usacc.org/chamber/prof-about.htm



External Links

Announcing The US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce, Azerbaijan International, Spring 1996. "The Chamber extends deep appreciation to the following companies which have contributed to its establishment: Amoco, BP America, Chevron, Exxon, Mobil, Occidental, Panalpina, and Unocal."
Caspian Watch # 5: Senator Byrd Takes the Lead in Securing U.S. Access To 200 Billion Barrels of Oil in the Caspian Sea, Center for Security Policy, February 1997. "This conference, sponsored by the US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce (USACC), involved some 300 participants, including in addition to Senator Robert Byrd: former Secretary of Defense Richard Bruce Dick Cheney, former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard N. Perle, former Deputy Energy Secretary William White, U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan Richard Kauzlarich, Azerbaijan's Ambassador to the U.S. Hafiz Pashayev and the former U.S. mediator on the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict Ambassador John
Maresca."

***************************************

Isn't anybody wondering what such heavy hitters, including Perle and some other well known former senators and government people, are doing
on some little country nobody ever heard of Chamber of Commerce?

[Minstrel Boy]

33. Thanks Pallas. This is very interesting,

in that scary kinda way.

[Pallas180]

39. Hi Minstel Boy - REbel Yell talks about you a lot - big fan -

glad you came over here.

:hi:

[donkeyotay]

57. good grief! That's enough political power to start your own country!

Pallas, this is worth pursuing. I wish I had more time... and a better memory. But this just whacked me upside the head. These people? On a chamber of commerce for some backwater country? Right...

I might have something to contribute. First, I noticed that SE said these were big organizations, involving 100s of millions of dollars. So that narrows the field. Secondly, I recall the chamber of commerce being involved in something skanky here in the US. I'm trying to remember what it was, and off the top of my head I'm thinking of the Import/Export Bank and their shady deals with Enron. I'm going to follow up on that aspect.

Yes Shraby, I have been following the Plame threads. Right now, it's overwhelming; you guys have been making my head spin. But it seems like you're closing in on something important.

One thing that I wonder about, and Daniel Ellsberg mentioned this, is why fool around with something this big. If SE has evidence of our government's involvement in crime that relates to 9-11, why not come out with it and tell us what it is that she's hinting at? I mean, isn't she in dire risk even hinting at this stuff? And if she has evidence of something this serious, doesn't it make sense to tell that judge to go to hell and tell the American people?

Obviously, I can't make that call for her or second guess her decisions, but it's frustrating to keep having people dropping hints like bread crumbs. Damn it people! If someone has evidence, get it out there! We can't expect that congress or the media are going to do the job.

[Pallas180]

89. Don-Keyota - if you read all the way through - I think we

found the answer to the whole thing, combined with Rebel Yell's
thread "Longboat" over in Foreign/Military matters -9 11

Read post # 59 below but read through this whole thing.

If you think your mind was blown before, wait till you read the rest
of this.

I'm satisfied. I think I've been driven to find the answer to what
happened and why and who was involved. And I feel I have. It wouldn't
have happened without carefully going over Sibel's words.

She didn't just say drugs. We printed her up above. Look carefully.

Why should she say anymore. Her life certainly is in danger and she's
very brave. From what we see here of this massive thing, where in the
world could that poor woman go to hide. There's nowhere where they aren't.

And "they" are so arrogant they prolly think no dumb murican could figure it out. Certainly the media hasn't. ( But what is troubling
is that many many in congress must know all of this.)

Bless Al Gore and the internet.

[Pallas180]

91. They do have their own country. It's called the world and they are

the government of every country.

Whether it's kissinger & assoc. or carlyle or the oil companies,
or the original dozen bankers like Morgan, they all have a piece of
each action.

[Lestatdelc]

204. Couple of points off the rails

The WTC demolitions stuff is pure tin-foil bullshit.

And Edmonds assertions about a "warlord" bumped off before the Afghan war is a mistaken timeline event.

Ahmed Shah Massoud was killed a two days prior to 9/11 by al-Qaeda/Taliban infiltration. Not prior to the Afghan NA backed offensive that "ousted" the Taliban which Edmonds alludes to.

[Pallas180]

208. Funny, if someone says "a warlord" was killed before the war

I would understand it to be Massoud.

But then, perhpas women just understand women.

In any case, you have no link to where she said that, so I dont know
if she did say that.

[Lestatdelc]

218. Quoted in robertpaulsen's post

Look up thread

[Pallas180]

226. Lestaldec okey dokey, will look for it

thanks

[Pallas180]

228. Odd that our government, out of 39 million people, cant find enough

people to do translating of that particular language....

hmmmmmm - could it be that they dont want anyone to translate????

[Moderator]

17. robertpaulsen

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.

Thank you.

DU Moderator

[JackRKelly]

18. Dear Mod

Robert posted only three paras or lines of a newspaper article;
the rest was a post of another poster's thoughts on DU transported from another thread, which is not copywrited and he certainly does not require permission to re-use. To my knowledge re-posting another posters' non-copywrited writing on DU is not against the rules .

I'm sure there is some misunderstanding here.

[Pallas180]

16. Sibel Edmonds knows and so should all of America.

:Kick:

[shraby]

19. U.S. - Turkmenistan Business Council

Here is an interesting board too.

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Marty Miller, Unocal (Chairman)
Steve Lamb, Case Corporation (Vice-Chairman)
Joseph Bell, Hogan & Hartson, LLP
Tom Butler, Chase Manhattan Bank
Wingate Lloyd, ITT Industries
Jack Schrier, The Bank of New York
Bill Scoggins, Mobil Corporation
Phil Tevis, Dresser Industries
Gerry Warburg, Cassidy & Associates
Warner Williams, Chevron Corporation (condi rice company?)

OFFICERS

Bill Ichord, Unocal (Treasurer)
Joseph Samora, Case Corporation (Assistant Treasurer)
Steve Martinez, Unocal (Secretary)

COUNCIL STAFF

Allen Moore (Executive Director)
Stefanie Reiser (Manager)

ADDRESS

U.S. - Turkmenistan Business Council
805 15th Street, N.W. Suite 500
Washington, D.C. 20005
202-682-0534
202-371-6601

[Pallas180]

20. Turkmenistan is an offshoot of Russia, right? where the oil pipeline

or oil trucks might transport? So I can understand the oil companies
being on the Turkmenistan board, maybe - what language do they speak
in Turkmenistan by the way? that might give us another clue to if it is one of the countries she handled.

James Baker and Cheney and Armitage on Azberjain(spelling) chamber? Whoever heard of this country before Sibel Edmonds mentioned the language she spoke? And , didn't she make a point of adding that she
spoke Azberjinian?

take a look at mapquest for the positioning of these countries...that
might help us with smuggling routes..although in thread 19 and 20 we
did have the smuggling routes written up.

[Krasnaya Lastochka]

25. what languages they speak in Turkmenistan

the "official" language is Turkmen, which is sort of related to Turkish, but most business is conducted in Russian (and most Turkmenistanis speak Russian)

[Pallas180]

30. Thanks Krasnaya, is there anything else you can add to this?

we're trying to follow Sibel Edmonds interviews to find out about
US connected govt people illegal "trade". She said if what she knows
comes out, they would be tried for treason.

Since this is Democratic Underground, most of the people here are opposed to the fascist/police state type government being dished out
by this administration.

Got any help/hints for our detective work?

Thanks.

[Krasnaya Lastochka]

36. well, I don't have much...

but I have an icky feeling about the Caspian Sea pipeline, the one that runs through Turkmenistan.

[Pallas180]

40. Okay. we have an icky feeling about all of it. What's yours on

that oil pipeline?

[Krasnaya Lastochka]

44. I'm not sure exactly...

it just smells like secret deals and insider trading.

[Generator]

51. Just read "Welcome to Terrorland"

by Hopsicker http://www.madcowprod.com/

Follow the money. And that money is in the beautiful poppy plant.

Can you say H E R O I N boys and girls?

I think that I figured out that 9/11 wasn't LIHOP or MIHOP-it was the same old deal. You play with the bad boys and sometimes they turn on you.

Who controlled that trade in 2001? The Taliban. And who did the Taliban go to when they were pissed at America, why, their good buddy Osama. And all those nice boys we let into America by looking the other way and giving CIA support turned on us. They did whatever Osama told them to.


There are certain points... where you have your drug related activities combined with money laundering and information laundering, converging with your terrorist activities.” Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator

[shraby]

21. Map of area

I don't know how to make this map show up, but here's a link.

<http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/me.htm>

[shraby]

22. Azerbaijan makes no sense

if you look at the map. Maybe a look at Armenia would be in order. It's between Azerbaijan and Turkey. Can't find anything that would tie Armenia in to the rest.

[shraby]

24. Azerbaijan

Take your choice..why don't they legalize this stuff?? WOW
I also notice Iraq isn't on the list. Wonder why? Maybe they want it to be???

Country Illicit drugs

Afghanistan world's largest producer of opium; cultivation of opium poppy - used to make heroin - expanded to 30,750 hectares in 2002, despite eradication; potential opium production of 1,278 metric tons; source of hashish; many narcotics-processing labs throughout the country; drug trade source of instability and some government groups profit from the trade; 80-90% of the heroin consumed in Europe comes from Afghan opium; vulnerable to narcotics money laundering through informal financial networks

Albania increasingly active transshipment point for Southwest Asian opiates, hashish, and cannabis transiting the Balkan route and - to a far lesser extent - cocaine from South America destined for Western Europe; limited opium and growing cannabis production; ethnic Albanian narcotrafficking organizations active and rapidly expanding in Europe; vulnerable to money laundering associated with regional trafficking in narcotics, arms, contraband, and illegal aliens
Angola used as a transshipment point for cocaine destined for Western Europe and other African states

Anguilla transshipment point for South American narcotics destined for the US and Europe
Antigua and Barbuda considered a minor transshipment point for narcotics bound for the US and Europe; more significant as an offshore financial center

Argentina used as a transshipment country for cocaine headed for Europe and the US; some money-laundering activity, especially in the Tri-Border Area; domestic consumption of drugs in urban centers is increasing

Armenia illicit cultivation of small amount of cannabis for domestic consumption; used as a transit point for illicit drugs - mostly opium and hashish - moving from Southwest Asia to Russia and to a lesser extent the rest of Europe

Aruba transit point for US- and Europe-bound narcotics with some accompanying money-laundering activity

Australia Tasmania is one of the world's major suppliers of licit opiate products; government maintains strict controls over areas of opium poppy cultivation and output of poppy straw concentrate

Austria transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin and South American cocaine destined for Western Europe

Azerbaijan limited illicit cultivation of cannabis and opium poppy, mostly for CIS consumption; small government eradication program; transit point for Southwest Asian opiates bound for Russia and to a lesser extent the rest of Europe

Bahamas The transshipment point for cocaine and marijuana bound for US and Europe; offshore financial center

Bangladesh transit country for illegal drugs produced in neighboring countries

Barbados one of many Caribbean transshipment points for narcotics bound for Europe and the US; offshore financial center

Belarus limited cultivation of opium poppy and cannabis, mostly for the domestic market; transshipment point for illicit drugs to and via Russia, and to the Baltics and Western Europe; a small and lightly regulated financial center; new anti-money-laundering legislation does not meet international standards; few investigations or prosecutions of money-laundering activities

Belgium growing producer of synthetic drugs; transit point for US-bound ecstasy; source of precursor chemicals for South American cocaine processors; transshipment point for cocaine, heroin, hashish, and marijuana entering Western Europe; despite a strengthening of legislation, the country remains vulnerable to money laundering related to narcotics, automobiles, alcohol and tobacco

Belize major transshipment point for cocaine; small-scale illicit producer of cannabis for the international drug trade; money-laundering activity related to narcotics trafficking and offshore sector

Benin transshipment point for narcotics associated with Nigerian trafficking organizations and most commonly destined for Western Europe and the US; vulnerable to money laundering due to a poorly regulated financial infrastructure

Bolivia world's third-largest cultivator of coca (after Colombia and Peru) with an estimated 28,450 hectares under cultivation in June 2003, a 23% increase from June 2002; intermediate coca products and cocaine exported mostly to or through Brazil, Argentina, and Chile to European and US drug markets; eradication and alternative crop programs under the MESA administration have been unable to keep pace with farmers' attempts to increase cultivation; money-laundering activity related to narcotics trade, especially along the borders with Brazil and Paraguay

Bosnia and Herzegovina minor transit point for marijuana and opiate trafficking routes to Western Europe; remains highly vulnerable to money laundering activity given a primarily cash-based and unregulated economy, weak law enforcement and instances of corruption

Brazil illicit producer of cannabis; minor coca cultivation in the Amazon region, used for domestic consumption; government has a large-scale eradication program to control cannabis; important transshipment country for Bolivian, Colombian and Peruvian cocaine headed for Europe and the US; also used by traffickers as a way station for narcotics air transshipments between Peru and Colombia; upsurge in drug-related violence and weapons smuggling; important market for Colombian, Bolivian, and Peruvian cocaine; illicit narcotics proceeds earned in Brazil are often laundered through the financial system; significant illicit financial activity in the Tri-Border Area

British Virgin Islands transshipment point for South American narcotics destined for the US and Europe; large offshore financial center makes it vulnerable to money laundering

Brunei drug trafficking and illegally importing controlled substances are serious offenses in Brunei and carry a mandatory death penalty

Bulgaria major European transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin and, to a lesser degree, South American cocaine for the European market; limited producer of precursor chemicals; some money laundering of drug-related proceeds through financial institutions

Burma world's second largest producer of illicit opium (potential production in 2002 - 630 metric tons, down 27% due to drought and, to a lesser extent, eradication; cultivation in 2002 - 77,000 hectares, a 27% decline from 2001); surrender of drug warlord KHUN SA's Mong Tai Army in January 1996 was hailed by Rangoon as a major counternarcotics success, but lack of government will and ability to take on major narcotrafficking groups and lack of serious commitment against money laundering continues to hinder the overall antidrug effort; major source of methamphetamine and heroin for regional consumption; currently under Financial Action Task Force countermeasures due to continued failure to address its inadequate money-laundering controls

Cambodia narcotics-related corruption reportedly involving some in the government, military, and police; possible small-scale opium, heroin, and amphetamine production; large producer of cannabis for the international market; vulnerable to money laundering due to its cash-based economy and porous borders

Canada illicit producer of cannabis for the domestic drug market and export to US; use of hydroponics technology permits growers to plant large quantities of high-quality marijuana indoors; transit point for heroin and cocaine entering the US market; vulnerable to narcotics money laundering because of its mature financial services sector

Cape Verde used as a transshipment point for illicit drugs moving from Latin America and Asia destined for Western Europe; the lack of a well-developed financial system limits the country's utility as a money-laundering center

Cayman Islands offshore financial center; vulnerable to drug transshipment to the US and Europe

Chile important transshipment country for cocaine destined for Europe and the US; economic prosperity and increasing trade have made Chile more attractive to traffickers seeking to launder drug profits, especially through the Iquique Free Trade Zone, but a new anti-money-laundering law improves controls; imported precursors passed on to Bolivia; domestic cocaine consumption is rising

China major transshipment point for heroin produced in the Golden Triangle; growing domestic drug abuse problem; source country for chemical precursors and methamphetamine

Colombia illicit producer of coca, opium poppy, and cannabis; world's leading coca cultivator (cultivation of coca in 2002 was 144,450 hectares, a 15% decline since 2001); potential production of opium between 2001 and 2002 declined by 25% to 91 metric tons; potential production of heroin declined to 11.3 metric tons; the world's largest processor of coca derivatives into cocaine; supplier of about 90% of the cocaine to the US market and the great majority of cocaine to other international drug markets; important supplier of heroin to the US market; active aerial eradication program; a significant portion of non-US narcotics proceeds are either laundered or invested in Colombia through the black market peso exchange

Congo, Democratic Republic of the illicit producer of cannabis, mostly for domestic consumption; while rampant corruption and inadequate supervision leaves the banking system vulnerable to money laundering, the lack of a well-developed financial system limits the country's utility as a money-laundering center

Costa Rica transshipment country for cocaine and heroin from South America; illicit production of cannabis on small, scattered plots; domestic cocaine consumption is rising, particularly crack cocaine

Cote d'Ivoire illicit producer of cannabis, mostly for local consumption; transshipment point for Southwest and Southeast Asian heroin to Europe and occasionally to the US, and for Latin American cocaine destined for Europe and South Africa; while rampant corruption and inadequate supervision leave the banking system vulnerable to money laundering, the lack of a developed financial system limits the country's utility as a major money-laundering center

Croatia transit point along the Balkan route for Southwest Asian heroin to Western Europe; has been used as a transit point for maritime shipments of South American cocaine bound for Western Europe

Cuba territorial waters and air space serve as transshipment zone for cocaine and heroin bound for the US and Europe; established the death penalty for certain drug-related crimes in 1999

Cyprus minor transit point for heroin and hashish via air routes and container traffic to Europe, especially from Lebanon and Turkey; some cocaine transits as well; despite a strengthening of anti-money laundering legislation, remains highly vulnerable to money laundering; identification of benefiting owners and reporting of suspicious transactions by nonresident-controlled companies in offshore sector remains weak

Czech Republic transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin and minor transit point for Latin American cocaine to Western Europe; producer of synthetic drugs for local and regional markets; susceptible to money laundering related to drug trafficking, organized crime

Dominica transshipment point for narcotics bound for the US and Europe; minor cannabis producer; anti-money-laundering enforcement is weak, making the country particularly vulnerable to money laundering

Dominican Republic transshipment point for South American drugs destined for the US and Europe; has become a transshipment point for ecstasy from the Netherlands and Belgium destined for US and Canada; substantial money-laundering activity; Colombian narcotics traffickers favor the Dominican Republic for illicit financial transactions

East Timor NA

Ecuador significant transit country for cocaine originating in Colombia and Peru; importer of precursor chemicals used in production of illicit narcotics; attractive location for cash-placement by drug traffickers laundering money because of dollarization and weak anti-money-laundering regime, especially vulnerable along the border with Colombia; increased activity on the northern frontier by trafficking groups and Colombian insurgents

Egypt transit point for Southwest Asian and Southeast Asian heroin and opium moving to Europe, Africa, and the US; transit stop for Nigerian couriers; concern as money-laundering site due to lax financial regulations and enforcement

El Salvador transshipment point for cocaine; small amounts of marijuana produced for local consumption; domestic cocaine abuse on the rise

Estonia transshipment point for opiates and cannabis from Southwest Asia and the Caucasus via Russia, cocaine from Latin America to Western Europe and Scandinavia, and synthetic drugs from Western Europe to Scandinavia; increasing domestic drug abuse problem; possible precursor manufacturing and/or trafficking; potential money laundering related to organized crime and drug trafficking is a concern as is possible use of the gambling sector to launder funds

Ethiopia Transit hub for heroin originating in Southwest and Southeast Asia and destined for Europe and North America as well as cocaine destined for markets in southern Africa; cultivates qat (khat) for local use and regional export, principally to Djibouti and Somalia (legal in all three countries); the lack of a well-developed financial system limits the country's utility as a money-laundering center

France transshipment point for and consumer of South American cocaine, Southwest Asian heroin, and European synthetics
French Guiana small amount of marijuana grown for local consumption; minor transshipment point to Europe

Georgia limited cultivation of cannabis and opium poppy, mostly for domestic consumption; used as transshipment point for opiates via Central Asia to Western Europe and Russia

Germany source of precursor chemicals for South American cocaine processors; transshipment point for and consumer of Southwest Asian heroin, Latin American cocaine, and European-produced synthetic drugs; major financial center

Ghana illicit producer of cannabis for the international drug trade; major transit hub for Southwest and Southeast Asian heroin and, to a lesser extent, South American cocaine destined for Europe and the US; widespread crime and corruption have made money laundering a problem, but the lack of a well-developed financial infrastructure limits the country's utility as a money-laundering center

Greece a gateway to Europe for traffickers smuggling cannabis and heroin from the Middle East and Southwest Asia to the West and precursor chemicals to the East; some South American cocaine transits or is consumed in Greece; money laundering related to drug trafficking and organized crime

Grenada small-scale cannabis cultivation; lesser transshipment point for marijuana and cocaine to US
Guatemala major transit country for cocaine and heroin; minor producer of illicit opium poppy and cannabis for mostly domestic consumption; proximity to Mexico makes Guatemala a major staging area for drugs (particularly for cocaine); money laundering is a serious problem; corruption is a major problem; remains on Financial Action Task Force Non-Cooperative Countries and Territories List for continued failure to address deficiencies in money-laundering control regime

Guyana transshipment point for narcotics from South America - primarily Venezuela - to Europe and the US; producer of cannabis
Haiti major Caribbean transshipment point for cocaine en route to the US and Europe; substantial money-laundering activity; Colombian narcotics traffickers favor Haiti for illicit financial transactions; pervasive corruption

Honduras transshipment point for drugs and narcotics; illicit producer of cannabis, cultivated on small plots and used principally for local consumption; corruption is a major problem; some money-laundering activity

Hong Kong Makes strenuous law enforcement efforts, but faces difficult challenges in controlling transit of heroin and methamphetamine to regional and world markets; modern banking system provides a conduit for money laundering; rising indigenous use of synthetic drugs, especially among young people

Hungary transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin and cannabis and for South American cocaine destined for Western Europe; limited producer of precursor chemicals, particularly for amphetamine and methamphetamine; improving, but remains vulnerable to money laundering related to organized crime and drug trafficking

India world's largest producer of licit opium for the pharmaceutical trade, but an undetermined quantity of opium is diverted to illicit international drug markets; transit point for illicit narcotics produced in neighboring countries; illicit producer of methaqualone; vulnerable to narcotics money laundering through the hawala system

Indonesia illicit producer of cannabis largely for domestic use; possible growing role as transshipment point for Golden Triangle heroin

Iran despite substantial interdiction efforts, Iran remains a key transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin to Europe; domestic narcotics consumption remains a persistent problem and according to official Iranian statistics there are at least 2 million drug users in the country; lax anti-money-laundering regulations

Ireland transshipment point for and consumer of hashish from North Africa to the UK and Netherlands and of European-produced synthetic drugs; minor transshipment point for heroin and cocaine destined for Western Europe; despite recent legislation, narcotics-related money laundering using bureaux de change, trusts, shell companies involving the offshore financial community remains a concern

Israel increasingly concerned about cocaine and heroin abuse; drugs arrive in country from Lebanon and, increasingly, from Jordan; money-laundering center

Italy important gateway for and consumer of Latin American cocaine and Southwest Asian heroin entering the European market; money laundering by organized crime and from smuggling

Jamaica major transshipment point for cocaine from South America to North America and Europe; illicit cultivation of cannabis; government has an active manual cannabis eradication program; corruption is a major concern; substantial money-laundering activity; Colombian narcotics traffickers favor Jamaica for illicit financial transactions

Kazakhstan significant illicit cultivation of cannabis for CIS markets, as well as limited cultivation of opium poppy and ephedra (for the drug ephedrine); limited government eradication of illicit crops; transit point for Southwest Asian narcotics bound for Russia and the rest of Europe

Kenya widespread harvesting of small plots of marijuana; transit country for South Asian heroin destined for Europe and North America; Indian methaqualone also transits on way to South Africa; significant potential for money-laundering activity given the country's status as a regional financial center, massive corruption, and relatively high levels of narcotics-associated activities

Korea, North for years from the 1970's into the 1990's, citizens of the Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea (DPRK), many of them diplomatic employees of the government, were apprehended abroad while trafficking in narcotics. In recent years, police investigations in Taiwan and Japan have linked North Korea to large illicit shipments of heroin and methamphetamine, with the attempt by the North Korean merchant ship Pong Su to deliver 125 kg of heroin to Australia in April 2003 the most recent example of Pyongyang's involvement in the drug trade. All indications point to North Korea emerging as an important regional source of illicit drugs targeting markets in Japan, Taiwan, the Russian Far East, and China.

Kyrgyzstan limited illicit cultivation of cannabis and opium poppy for CIS markets; limited government eradication of illicit crops; transit point for Southwest Asian narcotics bound for Russia and the rest of Europe

Laos world's third-largest illicit opium producer (estimated cultivation in 2002 - 23,200 hectares, a 5% increase over 2001; estimated potential production in 2002 - 180 metric tons, a 10% decrease from 2001); potential heroin producer; transshipment point for heroin and methamphetamine produced in Burma; illicit producer of cannabis; growing methamphetamine abuse problem

Latvia transshipment point for opiates and cannabis from Central and Southwest Asia to Western Europe and Scandinavia and Latin American cocaine and some synthetics from Western Europe to CIS; vulnerable to money laundering despite improved legislation due to nascent enforcement capabilities and comparatively weak regulation of offshore companies, exchange firms, and the gaming industry; organized crime (including counterfeiting, corruption, extortion, stolen cars, and prostitution) accounts for most laundered proceeds

Lebanon cannabis cultivation dramatically reduced to 2,500 hectares in 2002; opium poppy cultivation minimal; small amounts of Latin American cocaine and Southwest Asian heroin transit country on way to European markets and for Middle Eastern consumption

Liberia transshipment point for Southeast and Southwest Asian heroin and South American cocaine for the European and US markets; corruption, criminal activity, arms-dealing, and diamond trade provide significant potential for money laundering, but the lack of well-developed financial system limits the country's utility as a major money-laundering center

Liechtenstein has strengthened money-laundering controls, but money laundering remains a concern due to Liechtenstein sophisticated offshore financial services sector

Lithuania transshipment point for opiates and other illicit drugs from Southwest Asia, Latin America, and Western Europe to Western Europe and Scandinavia; limited production of methamphetamine and ecstasy; susceptible to money laundering despite changes to banking legislation

Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of major transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin and hashish; minor transit point for South American cocaine destined for Europe; although most criminal activity is thought to be domestic and not a financial center, money laundering is a problem due to a mostly cash-based economy and weak enforcement (no arrests or prosecutions for money laundering to date)

Madagascar illicit producer of cannabis (cultivated and wild varieties) used mostly for domestic consumption; transshipment point for heroin

Malaysia transit point for some illicit drugs; drug trafficking prosecuted vigorously and carries severe penalties
Malta minor transshipment point for hashish from North Africa to Western Europe

Martinique transshipment point for cocaine and marijuana bound for the US and Europe

Mauritius minor consumer and transshipment point for heroin from South Asia; small amounts of cannabis produced and consumed locally; significant offshore financial industry creates potential for money laundering, but corruption levels are relatively low and the government appears generally to be committed to regulating its banking industry

Mexico illicit cultivation of opium poppy (cultivation in 2001 - 4,400 hectares; potential heroin production - 7 metric tons) and of cannabis (in 2001 - 4,100 hectares); government eradication efforts have been key in keeping illicit crop levels low; major supplier of heroin and largest foreign supplier of marijuana and methamphetamine to the US market; continues as the primary transshipment country for US-bound cocaine from South America, accounting for about 70 percent of estimated annual cocaine movement to the US; major drug syndicates control majority of drug trafficking throughout the country; producer and distributor of ecstasy; significant money-laundering center

Moldova limited cultivation of opium poppy and cannabis, mostly for CIS consumption; transshipment point for illicit drugs from Southwest Asia via Central Asia to Russia, Western Europe, and possibly the US; widespread crime and underground economic activity

Montserrat transshipment point for South American narcotics destined for the US and Europe

Morocco illicit producer of hashish; trafficking increasing for both domestic and international drug markets; shipments of hashish mostly directed to Western Europe; transit point for cocaine from South America destined for Western Europe

Mozambique Southern African transit point for South Asian hashish, South Asian heroin, and South American cocaine probably destined for the European and South African markets; producer of cannabis (for local consumption) and methaqualone (for export to South Africa); corruption and poor regulatory capability makes the banking system vulnerable to money laundering, but the lack of a well-developed financial infrastructure limits the country's utility as a money-laundering center

Nauru offshore banking recently stopped, remains on Financial Action Task Force Non-Cooperative Countries and Territories List for continued failure to address deficiencies in money-laundering control regime

Nepal illicit producer of cannabis for the domestic and international drug markets; transit point for opiates from Southeast Asia to the West

Netherlands major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering

Netherlands Antilles transshipment point for South American drugs bound for the US and Europe; money-laundering center

Nicaragua transshipment point for cocaine destined for the US and transshipment point for arms-for-drugs dealing

Nigeria a transit point for heroin and cocaine intended for European, East Asian, and North American markets; safehaven for Nigerian narcotraffickers operating worldwide; major money-laundering center; massive corruption and criminal activity, remains on Financial Action Task Force Non-Cooperative Countries and Territories List for continued failure to address deficiencies in money-laundering control regime

Pakistan opium poppy cultivation practically eliminated; key transit point for Southwest Asian heroin bound for Western markets; Afghan narcotics continue to transit Federally Administered Tribal Areas, Balochistan Province, and Karachi; financial crimes related to drug trafficking, terrorism, corruption, and smuggling remain problems

Panama major cocaine transshipment point and primary money-laundering center for narcotics revenue; money-laundering activity is especially heavy in the Colon Free Zone; offshore financial center; negligible signs of coca cultivation; monitoring of financial transactions is improving; official corruption remains a major problem

Paraguay major illicit producer of cannabis, most or all of which is consumed in Brazil, Argentina, and Chile; transshipment country for Andean cocaine headed for Brazil, other Southern Cone markets, Europe, and US; corruption and some money-laundering activity, especially in the Tri-Border Area

Peru until 1996 the world's largest coca leaf producer; emerging opium producer; cultivation of coca in Peru fell 15 percent to 31,150 hectares between 2002 and the end of 2003; much of the cocaine base is shipped to neighboring Colombia for processing into cocaine, while finished cocaine is shipped out from Pacific ports to the international drug market; increasing amounts of base and finished cocaine, however, are being moved to Brazil and Bolivia for use in the Southern Cone or transshipped to Europe and Africa

Philippines exports locally-produced marijuana and hashish to East Asia, the US, and other Western markets; serves as a transit point for heroin and crystal methamphetamine; domestic methamphetamine production is a growing problem; remains on Financial Action Task Force Non-Cooperative Countries and Territories List for continued failure to address deficiencies in money-laundering control regime

Poland major illicit producer of synthetic drugs for the international market; minor transshipment point for Asian and Latin American illicit drugs to Western Europe

Portugal gateway country for Latin American cocaine and Southwest Asian heroin entering the European market (especially from Brazil); transshipment point for hashish from North Africa to Europe; consumer of Southwest Asian heroin

Romania major transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin transiting the Balkan route and small amounts of Latin American cocaine bound for Western Europe; although not a significant financial center, role as a narcotics conduit leaves it vulnerable to laundering which occurs via the banking system, currency exchange houses, and casinos

Russia limited cultivation of illicit cannabis and opium poppy and producer of methamphetamine, mostly for domestic consumption; government has active illicit crop eradication program; used as transshipment point for Asian opiates, cannabis, and Latin American cocaine bound for growing domestic markets, to a lesser extent Western and Central Europe, and occasionally to the US; major source of heroin precursor chemicals; corruption and organized crime are key concerns; heroin increasingly popular in domestic market
Saint Kitts and Nevis transshipment point for South American drugs destined for the US and Europe; some money-laundering activity
Saint Lucia transit point for South American drugs destined for the US and Europe

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines transshipment point for South American drugs destined for the US and Europe; small-scale cannabis cultivation

Saudi Arabia death penalty for traffickers; increasing consumption of heroin, cocaine, and hashish; not a major money-laundering center, improving anti-money-laundering legislation

Senegal transshipment point for Southwest and Southeast Asian heroin moving to Europe and North America; illicit cultivator of cannabis

Serbia and Montenegro transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin moving to Western Europe on the Balkan route; economy vulnerable to money laundering

Singapore as a transportation and financial services hub, Singapore is vulnerable, despite strict laws and enforcement, to be used as a transit point for Golden Triangle heroin and as a venue for money laundering

Slovakia transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin bound for Western Europe; producer of synthetic drugs for regional market
Slovenia minor transit point for cocaine and Southwest Asian heroin bound for Western Europe, and for precursor chemicals

South Africa transshipment center for heroin, hashish, marijuana, and cocaine; cocaine consumption on the rise; world's largest market for illicit methaqualone, usually imported illegally from India through various east African countries; illicit cultivation of marijuana; attractive venue for money launderers given the increasing level of organized criminal and narcotics activity in the region

Spain key European gateway country and consumer for Latin American cocaine and North African hashish entering the European market; destination and minor transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin; money laundering site for European earnings of Colombian narcotics trafficking organizations

Suriname growing transshipment point for South American drugs destined for Europe and Brazil; transshipment point for arms-for-drugs dealing

Switzerland a major international financial center vulnerable to the layering and integration stages of money laundering; despite significant legislation and reporting requirements, secrecy rules persist and nonresidents are permitted to conduct business through offshore entities and various intermediaries; transit country for and consumer of South American cocaine and Southwest Asian heroin

Syria a transit point for opiates and hashish bound for regional and Western markets; weak anti-money-laundering controls, bank privatization may leave it vulnerable to money-laundering

Taiwan regional transit point for heroin and methamphetamine; major problem with domestic consumption of methamphetamine and heroin; renewal of domestic methamphetamine production is a problem

Tajikistan major transit country for Afghan narcotics bound for Russian and, to a lesser extent, Western European markets; limited illicit cultivation of opium poppy for domestic consumption; Tajikistan seizes roughly 80 percent of all drugs captured in Central Asia and stands third world-wide in seizures of opiates (heroin and raw opium)

Tanzania growing role in transshipment of Southwest and Southeast Asian heroin and South American cocaine destined for South African, European, and US markets and of South Asian methaqualone bound for Southern Africa; money laundering remains a problem

Thailand a minor producer of opium, heroin, and marijuana; illicit transit point for heroin en route to the international drug market from Burma and Laos; eradication efforts have reduced the area of cannabis cultivation and shifted some production to neighboring countries; opium poppy cultivation has been reduced by eradication efforts; also a drug money-laundering center; minor role in amphetamine production for regional consumption; increasing indigenous abuse of methamphetamine

Togo transit hub for Nigerian heroin and cocaine traffickers; money laundering not a significant problem

Trinidad and Tobago transshipment point for South American drugs destined for the US and Europe; producer of cannabis

Turkey key transit route for Southwest Asian heroin to Western Europe and - to a far lesser extent the US - via air, land, and sea routes; major Turkish, Iranian, and other international trafficking organizations operate out of Istanbul; laboratories to convert imported morphine base into heroin are in remote regions of Turkey as well as near Istanbul; government maintains strict controls over areas of legal opium poppy cultivation and output of poppy straw concentrate

Turkmenistan transit country for Afghan narcotics bound for Russian and, to a lesser extent, Western European markets; limited illicit cultivation of opium poppy for domestic consumption; small-scale government-run eradication of illicit crops; transit point for heroin precursor chemicals bound for Afghanistan

Turks and Caicos Islands transshipment point for South American narcotics destined for the US and Europe

Ukraine limited cultivation of cannabis and opium poppy, mostly for CIS consumption; some synthetic drug production for export to the West; limited government eradication program; used as transshipment point for opiates and other illicit drugs from Africa, Latin America, and Turkey to Europe and Russia; drug-related money laundering a minor, but growing, problem; anti-money-laundering regime improving but remains on Financial Action Task Force Non-Cooperative Countries and Territories List for continued failure to address deficiencies in money-laundering control regime

United Arab Emirates the UAE is a drug transshipment point for traffickers given its proximity to southwest Asian drug producing countries; the UAE's position as a major financial center makes it vulnerable to money laundering; anti-money-laundering controls improving

United Kingdom producer of limited amounts of synthetic drugs and synthetic precursor chemicals; major consumer of Southwest Asian heroin, Latin American cocaine, and synthetic drugs; money-laundering center

United States consumer of cocaine shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean; consumer of heroin, marijuana, and increasingly methamphetamine from Mexico; consumer of high-quality Southeast Asian heroin; illicit producer of cannabis, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens, and methamphetamine; money-laundering center

Uzbekistan transit country for Afghan narcotics bound for Russian and, to a lesser extent, Western European markets; limited illicit cultivation of cannabis and small amounts of opium poppy for domestic consumption; poppy cultivation almost wiped out by government crop eradication program; transit point for heroin precursor chemicals bound for Afghanistan

Venezuela small-scale illicit producer of opium and coca for the processing of opiates and coca derivatives; however, large quantities of cocaine, heroin, and marijuana transit the country from Colombia bound for US and Europe; significant narcotics-related money-laundering activity, especially along the border with Colombia and on Margarita Island; active eradication program primarily targeting opium; increasing signs of drug-related activities by Colombian insurgents on border

Vietnam minor producer of opium poppy; probable minor transit point for Southeast Asian heroin; domestic opium/heroin/methamphetamine addiction problems

World cocaine: worldwide, coca is grown on an estimated 205,450 hectares - almost exclusively in South America with 70% in Colombia; potential cocaine production during 2002 is estimated at 938 metric tons (or 1,200 metric tons of export quality cocaine at an average of 78% purity); coca eradication programs continue in Bolivia, Colombia, and Peru, and 292 metric tons of export quality cocaine are documented to have been seized in 2002; consumption of export quality cocaine is estimated to have been 875 metric tons
opiates: cultivation of opium poppy occurred on an estimated 141,213 hectares in 2002 and potentially produced 2,183 metric tons of opium - which conceivably could be converted to the equivalent of 238 metric tons of pure heroin; opium eradication programs have been undertaken in Afghanistan, Burma, Colombia, Mexico, Pakistan, Thailand, and Vietnam, and the annual average for opiates seized worldwide over the past five years (1998-2002) has been 45 metric tons of pure heroin equivalent; estimates for average annual consumption over this time period are 315 metric tons pure heroin equivalent

Zambia transshipment point for moderate amounts of methaqualone, small amounts of heroin, and cocaine bound for Southern Africa and possibly Europe; a poorly developed financial infrastructure coupled with a government commitment to combating money laundering make it an unattractive venue for money launderers

Zimbabwe transit point for African cannabis and South Asian heroin, mandrax, and methamphetamines destined for the South African and European markets

<http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2086.html>

[Pallas180]

32. It'd prolly be easier to name the countries NOT involved. I agree

they should legalize it, like liquor, and then the money wouldn't go
into "black bag Operations" right? It would prolly lessen everybody's
taxes.

[Krasnaya Lastochka]

28. I'm dumb...but whatever happened to Nagorno Karabakh??

Are Armenia and Azerbaijan still at war over it?? Sorry, but I'm woefully out-of-date on my Caucasus news.

[democracy eh]

31. Eurasian news and information

news, country profiles, etccc... good resource
http://www.eurasianet.org

I have a better one, must be bookmarked on home computer though

[Pallas180]

37. From democracy eh's link, look at this:

Azerbaijan must be pretty important, cause even China is running over
there.

which oil company is it?

21-27: Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan hold antiterror command post exercise in Baku codenamed Eternity to practise protecting Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline

August 20-21: Deputy Director of Foreign Affairs Office of Chinese National Defense Ministry Qian Lihua visits Azerbaijan for talks on military cooperation


August 21-24: Deputy transport ministers of Tajikistan, Iran, Afghanistan meet in Dushanbe to discuss construction of roads linking three countries

August 21-27: Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey take part in first anti-terrorism command post exercise since work started on Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline; aim to standardize emergency action in event of oil pipeline disaster












ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Pallas180]

27. Your Map - hope this works

notice Azberjain is between three seas, The Caspian on one side and the Black Sea on the other which runs up into the Azov Sea. So you could go from Pakistan to Afghanistan or from Tajikastan to Turkmenistan to the Caspian Sea acrss Azerbajan to the Black Sea and and a direct route/short trip over the Azov Sea to Europe and or Russia. Turkey also has Access to the Black Sea but Turkey isn't always so friendly to the United States, so now we may have a hint as to why James Baker 111, Dick Cheney, and Richard Armitage, among other armaments/oil/and possible Iran-Contra type people would be on
the Chamber of Commerce of Azerbajan.

What a drug smuggling route that is...

And what else?

[Krasnaya Lastochka]

26. and while we're discussing Turkmenistan...

does anyone else want President-for-Life Niyazov to go take a hike off a cliff? I sure do...I can't stand Niyazov.

[Pallas180]

29. Krasnaya, sorry to disappoint, but being a typical American I

really don't know much about the politics over there...never heard
of your guy - and never heard of Azerbajan either before Ashcroft
put a gag on her. We're probably all learning the geography at this
moment, I know I am.

Is there something we should know about Niyazov? We're not subtle
here. Just go ahead and tell us what we're missing. :)

[Krasnaya Lastochka]

35. the Niyazov Circus

Well, I'm not Turkmen and I've never been there, so I'm probably missing a lot too...I just have a friend from Turkmenistan, otherwise I would know absolutely zero. But about Niyazov...he's the biggest lunatic in the CIS. He calls himself "the Father of all Turkmens". He writes poetry and makes the whole country read it. (I've never read any but I bet it stinks.) He makes weird arbitrary decisions like officially extending "adolescence" to 25 or something. Most recently, he has ordered the construction of an ice palace. Ice. In Turkmenistan. (Sports Illustrated readers alert...that was the most recent "this weeks sign of the apocalypse".)

[Tsiyu]

23. Kick

:kick:

and kudos to Norville and anyone else who will LISTEN.

[shraby]

34. Proven oil reserves of countries

Country Oil - proved reserves (bbl)
Afghanistan 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
Albania 185.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Algeria 13.1 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Angola 5.691 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Argentina 2.927 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Australia 3.664 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Austria 85.69 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Azerbaijan 589 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Bahrain 125 million bbl (1 January 2003)
Bangladesh 28.45 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Barbados 1.254 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Benin 4.105 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Bolivia 458.8 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Brazil 8.507 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Brunei 1.255 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Bulgaria 8.1 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Burma 115 million bbl (1 January 2003)
Cameroon 200 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Canada 5.112 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Chile 81.05 million bbl (1 January 2002)
China 26.75 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Colombia 1.8 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Congo, Democratic Republic of the 1.538 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Congo, Republic of the 93.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Cote d'Ivoire 50 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Croatia 93.6 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Cuba 532 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Czech Republic 17.25 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Denmark 1.23 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Ecuador 2.358 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Egypt 3.308 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Equatorial Guinea 563.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Ethiopia 214,000 bbl (1 January 2002)
France 144.3 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Gabon 2.45 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Germany 327.3 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Ghana 8.255 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Greece 4.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Guatemala 263 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Hungary 110.7 million bbl (1 January 2002)
India 4.33 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Indonesia 7.083 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Iran 94.39 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Iraq 113.8 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Ireland 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
Israel 1.92 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Italy 586.6 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Japan 29.29 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Jordan 445,000 bbl (1 January 2002)
Kazakhstan 2.709 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Kuwait 97.68 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Libya 29.75 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Madagascar 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
Malaysia 3.729 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Mexico 15.11 billion bbl (1 January 2003)
Morocco 900,000 bbl (1 January 2002)
Mozambique 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
Namibia 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
Netherlands 88.06 million bbl (1 January 2002)
New Zealand 89.62 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Nigeria 27 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Norway 9.859 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Oman 5.703 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Pakistan 297.1 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Papua New Guinea 345.2 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Peru 614.7 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Philippines 164 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Poland 116.4 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Qatar 14.51 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Romania 1.055 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Russia 51.22 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Rwanda 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
Saudi Arabia 261.7 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Serbia and Montenegro 38.75 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Slovakia 4.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Somalia 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
South Africa 7.84 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Spain 10.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Sudan 631.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Suriname 37 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Syria 2.4 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Taiwan 2 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Tanzania 0 bbl (1 January 2002)
Thailand 600 million bbl (1 January 2003)
Trinidad and Tobago 990 million bbl (1 January 2004)
Tunisia 417 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Turkey 288.4 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Turkmenistan 273 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Ukraine 197.5 million bbl (1 January 2002)
United Arab Emirates 80.31 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
United Kingdom 4.741 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
United States 22.45 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Uzbekistan 297 million bbl (1 January 2002)
Venezuela 63.95 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
Vietnam 1.4 billion bbl (1 January 2002)
World 1.025 trillion bbl (1 January 2002)
Yemen 3.2 billion bbl (1 January 2002)

<http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2178.html>

[Pallas180]

41. Well that's good. We can expect the US to invade all those countries

with pre emptive strikes.

to liberate them-

from their oil.

[Pallas180]

43. RP e mailed he won't be back on til Tuesday, he's good

at putting these things together. It's staring us in the
face, I know, but I can't get wrapped around it yet - it's
oil and probably using the chamber of commerce as a front for
ahem - and what else?

illegal components?

illegal arms, guns, rifles shipments?

and where does the money laundering come in?

Banks. Is there a list of known money laundering banks?

(actually I think there is) by Levin or Waxman but I know I've seen
mention.

too big. just too big.

Now you know why there was a flood in Noah's time. People - govt's
pollute the world.

[shraby]

45. The countries

with banks laundering are mentioned in the list of drug countries I put on.

[Pallas180]

48. Some money laundering banks:

Special Report
http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=25160

SPECIAL REPORT:
Northern Laundromats for Southern Fat Cats

Miren Gutiérrez*

The U.S. Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) estimates that up to 1.5 trillion dollars is laundered annually around the world; much of this is laundered by rich institutions in rich countries, rather than by tropical offshore centres. The U.S. Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) estimates that up to 1.5 trillion (1,500 billion) dollars is laundered annually around the world. Much of this is laundered by rich institutions in rich countries, rather than by tropical offshore centres. Where does it come from? Money laundering is widely defined as inserting money of illegal origin into the legal financial system. The origins can include drug dealing, illegal arms trafficking and bribery.

-snip

The suspicious transactions at Riggs were exposed by a report last month from the U.S. Senate permanent subcommittee on investigations. The reported transactions included dealings with fat cats from poor or developing countries such as oil-rich Equatorial Guinea's Teodoro Obiang Nguema who heads one of the most corrupt states, and former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet.

-snip

The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) in the United States launched an investigation this month into the payment of millions of dollars by five U.S. oil companies including giant ExxonMobil into accounts controlled by Obiang Nguema or his associates. The inquiry was based on the Senate report. ExxonMobil has denied any wrongdoing.
The report says that these accounts which contained as much as 700 million dollars were kept open from 1995 to earlier this year with little concern that money flows seemed inappropriate.

-snip-


While they are undoubtedly neck-deep in money laundering, it is nevertheless a common misconception that most money is laundered in offshore financial centres and developing countries, an impression that is cultivated by governments of major countries seeking to put the blame somewhere other than on their own doorsteps," says David Marchant, editor of Offshore Alert, an investigative publication based in Miami. More money is laundered in New York and London than anywhere else in the world, says Marchant in a written interview. "Also, much of the money that is laundered in poorer countries is done by banks which are branches, subsidiaries or affiliates of banks in major countries such as the U.S. and the UK."
A BBC report published March 2002 says "London, New York, Tokyo, Paris, Frankfurt and of course Switzerland have their own thriving offshore businesses. And many crooks prefer dealing with the big places, where the sheer volume of money changing hands covers their tracks."
______lots more at link above, it's an interesting article


1.6 billion looted from Nigeria by dictator Sani Abacha found in reputable banks in UK and Switzerland -

brother of ex president of Mexico looted cash ended up in Citibank

Billions laundered through Bank of New York by Russian mafia
by paying 1.8 million to bank executive

"The bigger the bank, the bigger its money laundering problem (that's
nice to know)

and almost last but not least: ENRON - wait til you read this:

"Enron, for example, incorporated hundreds of subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands but did not have a single local office.
"These offshore subsidiaries have enabled Enron to hide potentially billions of dollars from American government officials, shareholders and credit rating companies at a time when Enron is being sued by shareholders and investigated for possible fraudulent accounting practices," says Joan Claybrook of Public Citizen in a letter to Paul H. O'Neill, Secretary of the Treasury, dated January 2002. Public Citizen is a non- profit consumer advocacy organisation

Hello Halliburton with how many offshores?????? from thread 18 or so

accused of inadequate anti-money laundering controls" included

Security Bank N.A. in Miami,
The Bank of New York,
Bank of America,
Amtrade Bank in Miami,
Bank of America,
Citibank,
First Union,
Harris Bank International.

[Zan_of_Texas]

46. Well, here's one piece.....

Remember, the world is partying now on cheap oil (yes, even $50 a barrel is cheap), but in a few hundred years of gorging on cheap fossil fuels, we are depleting what took Mother Earth millions of years to make (the stuff you put in that Hummer or Geo is older than the dinosaurs).

The places that still have reasonable amounts of the stuff are for the most part NOT the places that gobble it up (the US being a prime candidate, and China growing VERY fast -- 19% PER QUARTER).

So, transportation comes into play. Thus, pipelines.

Here's a discussion of pipelines in Central Asia 1992-1999.

http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipeline_timeline.htm

[Zan_of_Texas]

47. here's another

STEPHEN KINZER

"A Perilous New Contest for the Next Oil Prize,"

New York Times, September 21, 1997

Posted in its entirety at http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/azeroil.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------

BAKU, Azerbaijan -- <SNIP>
Forget mutual funds, commodity
futures and corporate mergers.
Forget South African diamonds,
European currencies and Thai
stocks. The most concentrated
mass of untapped wealth known to
exist anywhere is in the oil and gas
fields beneath the Caspian and the
lands around it, regions at best
dimly familiar to even the most
assiduous newspaper readers.

The stakes are enormous; the value
of the vast reserve, capable of
fueling the industrial world for
years to come, is measured in
trillions of dollars, and foreign
companies are expected to invest
$50 billion or more merely to extract it.

The strategic implications of this bonanza hypnotize Western security
planners as completely as the finances transfix oil executives. Once
Caspian oil begins flowing, they dare to dream, they will never again
have to kowtow to OPEC or maneuver to prevent oil-thirsty nations
from dealing with Iran and Iraq.

With that relief, however, will undoubtedly come new troubles, for the
competition involves not only governments and oil companies, but also
warlords and clan chiefs who control or move through the remote
regions where the pipelines needed to bring the treasure to market
might be built. Depending on where the lines are laid, power over the West's energy supply may fall to Chechen rebels, irredentist Armenians, government-connected cliques of Russian or Turkish gangsters, Iranian mullahs, Kurdish guerrillas or mercurial chieftains of the Avars, Lezgins, Swanetians and other Caucasian ethnic groups that nurse ancient grievances of which the outside world knows almost nothing. <SNIP>

[shraby]

49. Bingo!!

That's why Perle, Cheney, Kissinger, etal are on the Chamber of Commerce for Azerbaijan. It sits on the Caspian Sea. Are they in any official capacity, or unofficial capacity???

That might have some bearing on the drum beating for war with Iran. Iran would give a direct pipeline to the Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean, the shortest distance to pipe it.

[Pallas180]

52. Yes Bingo and why they want to go to war with our kids forever

..to protect the oil lines....if they can't, they'll just
kill in those countries until everyone is cowed into submission.

Don;t know Shraby about official or unofficial - but did you ever know
those characters to pretend they weren't official?

No. thinking.

It had to be unofficial, or as representatives of the oil and Halliburton company, cause why would Armitage and Cheney resign when they went back into government in 2001. So they were unofficial...
but Baker and did you notice his son Baker the 4th on the chamber,
is just a lawyer......representing Carlyle, the bushits, and the Saudis, - who knows how many other oil companies also.

No they were there unofficially. For Greed.

[Zan_of_Texas]

50. "Happiness is multiple pipelines" - - US ambassador to Kazakhstan

from the article below:

A few years ago the yellow bumper sticker on the car of Elizabeth Jones, then United States ambassador to Kazakhstan, read, "Happiness is Multiple Pipelines."



Afghan Pipe Dreams

By Pratap Chatterjee, CorpWatch
Posted on July 25, 2002
http://www.alternet.org/story/13681/

A proposed natural gas pipeline through Afghanistan has governments jockeying for political control as well as a share in the billions of dollars that would come with it.

So far, however, international oil and gas corporations are sniffing around the region and the World Bank has hinted it might give it's blessing to the plan, but none has committed to a pipeline project.
Many political observers and critics of the US war in Afghanistan have voiced suspicions that the true aim of the fossil fuel friendly Bush administration's "war on terrorism" is to clear the way for such a pipeline. Others, like John Pike, Director of GlobalSecurity.org, say that while oil and gas are never far off U.S. policy makers' radar screen, they also have other objectives.

"The people who peddle fossil fuels are the most interested and most active in seeking to influence the United States government," notes Pike. "But right now I think the US policy is to keep a new pipeline out of Iran at any costs," adds the former military analyst for the Federation of American Scientists.
<MORE>

[shraby]

53. Well, Bushco has

Afghanistan and Iraq for bases to squeeze Iran from both sides. They laid their plans well, how can they be derailed? MIHOP anyone??

[Pallas180]

59. Yes. And I think we should call Rebel Yell over. It may not have

been dimson - I'd have to give him credit for really being as stupid
and a puppett as he appears to be - but Rebel Yell's thread is about
the attempted big A of him the day before 911.

Then Cheney would have been president, from 911 on.

If the 4 middle eastern men, who knew the secret agent's name who was
guarding dimson, and asked for the agent by name, it means that the
attempted big A on dimson was an inside job.

Now if you're on the chamber of commerce of the trillion dollar oil
country - and you want to move things along...........

does anybody want to say it?

[Pallas180]

55. Ok. so did obl just happen to relocate to afghanistan nomansland,

or did someone say, why don't you go over there for awhile - make some
trouble - then we'll say you're making a lot of trouble and we have to
go get you....and while we're there, we'll take over the country so
our gas pipeline can go through..and your family well make several billion more and so will my family...kay sama? Sure Sahib. sounds good
to me.

There was a deal with Russia and they needed to bring a pipeline down
through Afghanistan and Iraq, they were negotiating for years but Saddam was giving them trouble...I dont remember if the Afghanis were
also, but likely - private oil companies were doing the negotiation --One was Condosleeza's and Unocal - I remember the article and I probably posted it somewhere -we should find it.

Their alternative was to truck it up through Russia to a port which would have been much more expensive.

So 1000 American boys lives is not as expensive or 20,000 Iraqi and
Afghani lives.

I didn't believe Iraq was over OBL and Saddam - but I did believe
Afghanistan was to get OBL.

What a sham.

It was oil all the time.

And we should look at Chechnya. That's probably why Putin is killing them..they must be in the way of the pipeline or have oil or gas themselves.

What a sham. what a sham.

[Stephanie]

98. Zan, what about the pipeline to Dabhol? The Enron angle?

Wasn't that why Lay thought he would squirm out of his mess? The pipeline from the Caspian through Afghanistan to fuel the Dabhol power plant that Enron was losing so much money on. Sorry I can't recall the details but I know you know.

Nice to see you!

[Zan_of_Texas]

105. Hi Stef!

Yes, there was a pipeline in mind to feed the Dabhol plant -- otherwise it made absolutely no economic sense.

Some people dream of sugar plums, but with these guys (and there was actually a gal involved in setting up Dabhol), it's pipelines.

It was always changing depending on politics, stability and discoveries.

[Zan_of_Texas]

104. Let's not forget Condi

Her Soviet focus at least came in handy for SOMEthing!

In fact, if you argue that using up fossil fuels and commandeering them is in the national interest, you can almost make an argument that she is useful.

from Laura Flanders' book Bushwomen: Tales of a Cynical Species

pp 55-56 (close paraphrase): In 1979, Soviet geologists had made the world's biggest oil discovery in three decades -- the Tengiz oilfield -- in what was then the Soviet republic of Kazakhstan on the Caspian Sea. The Tengiz field had an estimated six to nine billion barrels of oil reserves (more than the North Sea) and the San Francisco-based Chevron Corporation wanted a piece of it. The company had been negotiating for years. In June 1990, Chevron's vice-president finally signed a contract with a top Soviet energy official during Gorbachev's trip to the US, a trip that Condi Rice was leading across the US as part of her job in the first Bush administration. Almost immediately upon returning to California, Rice joined the board of directors of Chevron. The company expenaded their board by one to include Rice.

....After Kazakh independence, a whole new deal needed to be drawn up. According to Rice's biographer, Antonia Felix, Condoleezza worked on the Tengiz oilfield contract for Chevron. "Her expertise on the states that made up the former Soviet Union made her a valuable asset for Chevron's oil interests in Kazakhstan. She worked extensively on those deals, including their plan to help build a pipeline from the Tengiz oilfield across southern Russia to a Russian port on the Black Sea," writes Felix in an effusive volume published in 2002.

As it happened, Dick Cheney could help with the brokering -- he joined the twelve-member Oil Advisory Board of Kazakhstan after leaving the Bush administration. Cheney advised on the deals, then joined one of the companies with the most to gain by them -- the Halliburton Corporation, of which he became CEO in 1995.... Halliburton built the refineries on the Tengiz field.

... p. 70 "In the absence of a Cold War adversary, US national interests have become increasingly synonymous with corporate interests. Call it the Chevron/Nigeria way of government. Vice-President Dick Cheney's National Energy Group reported in 2001 that the 'national interest' required the President and the Secretary of State to 'support the (Caspian Sea) oil pipeline' that will help 'oil companies operating in Kazakhstan' get their oil to market."

[Pallas180]

118. ZAN, I'm speechless, which is unusual for me -

where do you get this stuff..(.fantastic)

And I'm outraged, why the hell should the US support a private companies' oil pipeline to help get another countries oil to market !!!


It's what I;ve said from day one. Our children in the army are being used to fight a private war of the oil companies !

And we should try to get every penny back from Cheney Hallibruton
and that dastardly nazi family!!!!

[Pallas180]

54. ZAN - you're a genius. If you hadn't found that we couldn't have put it

together.



" The most concentrated
mass of untapped wealth known to
exist anywhere is in the oil and gas
fields beneath the Caspian and the
lands around it, regions at best
dimly familiar to even the most
assiduous newspaper readers.

The stakes are enormous; the value
of the vast reserve, capable of
fueling the industrial world for
years to come, is measured in
trillions of dollars, "

[shraby]

56. Interesting....

The Azerbaijan Trade and Cultural Center was inaugurated by His Excellency Heydar Aliyev, President, Republic of Azerbaijan on September 11, 2000.
US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce
1212 Potomac Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20007

Officers
Honorary Council of Advisors

James Addison Baker III
Lloyd Bentsen
Zbigniew Brzezinski
Richard Bruce Dick Cheney (resigned November 2000)

Henry Kissinger
Brent Scowcroft
John Sununu
Chairman Emeritus

T. Don Stacy
Co-Chairman of the Board

Tim Cejka
Reza Vaziri
Vice-Chairman of the Board

James A. Baker IV
Board of Directors

Richard Armitage (resigned February 2001)

Farhad Azima
Betty Blair
Howard Chase
Don Condon
Stanley Escudero
Nader Fahm
Andrew Fawthrop
Mike Kostiw
David Sambrooks
Gregory K. Williams
Board of Trustees

Abdullah Akyuz
Ilham Aliyev
Graham Allison
Sam Brownback
Frank Henke
Richard Moncrief
Hafiz Pashayev
Richard N. Perle
Joseph R. Pitts
John Roberts
Stephen Robertson
Nancy Tuomey
Frank Verrastro
Officers

Theodore Ted Jonas, Legal Counsel & Secretary

Karl Mattison, Treasurer

Seymour Khalilov, Executive Director

External Links

Announcing The US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce, Azerbaijan International, Spring 1996. "The Chamber extends deep appreciation to the following companies which have contributed to its establishment: Amoco, BP America, Chevron, Exxon, Mobil, Occidental, Panalpina, and Unocal."
Caspian Watch # 5: Senator Byrd Takes the Lead in Securing U.S. Access To 200 Billion Barrels of Oil in the Caspian Sea, Center for Security Policy, February 1997. "This conference, sponsored by the US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce (USACC), involved some 300 participants, including in addition to Senator Robert Byrd: former Secretary of Defense Richard Bruce Dick Cheney, former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard N. Perle, former Deputy Energy Secretary William White, U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan Richard Kauzlarich, Azerbaijan's Ambassador to the U.S. Hafiz Pashayev and the former U.S. mediator on the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict Ambassador John
Maresca."

(The ones who went into this administration quit when they had to, but the rest of the bad-asses stayed on to finish the job. Some more of these guys need googled)

[Pallas180]

67. I think there's only one way to defeat them.

Let them drown in their oil.

There's some guy who is running his car on corn oil. I'm not kidding
Gas stations have to switch to corn oil to put the murderers and greeders out of business..or at least in less business and greed.

We have to use solar energy. On the roof, to heat water, to heat the
houses, to make energy to run things.

That is the only way we, (and I mean all the we, the little people in
every country like us,) are ever going to get out of the grips of
fascist police state governments run by corporations.

If we dont use their products, if the cars can be converted, if someone will go into the business of making converters to turncorn into oil...then they will lose power...it might take a while..I'm not a mathematician who can figure out the years , but it can be done.

Let them buy islands and yachts to float around in the ocean and stay
out of our lives.

[Pallas180]

90. Azerbajan

" Where the drugs, arms, oil intersect." as the lady said.

[shraby]

92. Yes Pallas, that's what the lady said.

It wasn't much to go on but I think we've solved the mystery. What do we do about it? Much of it is already known in bits and pieces and I'm sure a lot of congress knows, the CIA knows, the FBI knows and yet it sits there, an elephant smoking a cigarette in the room, and all the t.v. pundits can do is argue about Kerry's purple hearts.

Even the drugs are also there, moved from Afghanistan up that direction.

What's next??

[Pallas180]

94. Shraby, I'm going to answer that by internal mail.

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[shraby]

96. okay.

[shraby]

95. Lets wait for RP to get back

and he can put it all together in another paper like the American Judas one. Then we can send it all over the place.

[Pallas180]

97. Yes Shraby. I'm satisfied. I don't feel driven about finding the

answers.Like you, I think we have.

There are people in the know. People in congress I bet who understand and know. Some of them wrote it. Or were around when it was written
by Zgbrinski (so I can't spell names, so what :) )

And don't forget Kissinger has been with David and Nelson since the 40's. Another author.

But think of who is in the media today. Mostly dummies. bimbos. No
investigative reporters anymore. Woodward always was CIA and they wanted it to come out about Nixon I guess. Rather intimated he was afraid of being killed, he said that in England. Jennings -didn't we see his name in Bilderberg? Brokaw - who knows....everybody else is new and I bet they have no idea.

I have a feeling America will find out. Dont you?

[Pallas180]

103. BTW, did you catch

that Saudi Arabia is in on the deal of Azberjan and the Caspian?

It is in one of the posts about the oil companies and the chamber.

Also I watched Prince Bandar on tv about a month ago and he said they
the Saudis, were going to build an oil refinery in China.

I didn't know the Saud kingdom built refineries. Isn't that usually
Bechtel or Halliburton and there's another but I can't recall the name
right now.

[shraby]

106. Sooner or later

would be nice to have some real journalists. If a few of us could find this stuff so quick, they must be just sitting around eating pizza or something.

[Pallas180]

119. Waaal

I don;t know what to say. You;re right. - with pepperoni.

But I do know something about newspaper guys - you have to lay it
out for them - I know a reporter on the Gannett chain if he's still
there..he won an award for a story and he always says 1/2 the
statue belongs to me....last I heard he was managing editor.....

thinking about this, maybe some in congress dont know...they're always
busy with bills and fighting each other..lots of times we call up and
they dont know what we're talking about... so maybe some dont know...

then again we wouldn't want to hit anybody in Bilderberg - or trilateral or Carlyle.

Hey, did you see Carlucci on C Span...he's really an old man now, but
he doesnt look like a nice old man....

[Pallas180]

155. Zbigniew Brzezinski

Zbigniew Brzezinski and "The New Pearl Harbor"


Brzezinski with Osama photos here:
http://www.geocities.com/RepresentativePress/binLadenph...



"Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions.

Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.

Washington's policy in Afghanistan was shaped by Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and was continued by his successors. His plan went far beyond simply forcing Soviet troops to withdraw; rather it aimed to foster an international movement to spread Islamic fanaticism into the Muslim Central Asian Soviet republics to destabilise the Soviet Union."

(well that worked well, didn't it Ziggy?)

http://www.meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Conspirac...

[DU GrovelBot]

38. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our third quarter 2004 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[Pallas180]

42. I did, I did, already - and I got a star - see?

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Pallas180]

58. omigawd - we got it. we got it and it didn't take much digging

either, because of what we already knew from the last 20 threads.

It's about oil.

And arms.

Bribes which Cheney Halliburton is famous for and prolly the other oil
companies.

Bribes need money laundering

The one thing we won't have proof of is the drug trade through the
same route. Unless there were some major arrests.

And that's what Sibel said. Where the drugs, arms, oil intersect.

Azerbajani is the language she speaks in addition to the others, but
the language she made sure to ADD.

[shraby]

60. Here is info on the other players

of that "Chamber of Commerce" Most have to do with oil

Lloyd Bentsen:
He retired from the Senate in January 1993 in order to serve as the 69th Secretary of the Treasury under Bill Clinton from 1993 to 1994. Clinton's selection of Bentsen for his cabinet was criticised as resulting in a loss of a Democratic Senate seat when Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison won the special election in Texas for Bentsen's vacated seat.

T. Don Stacy
He was named President of Amoco Canada in 1986 and was named Chairman and President in 1988. He held that post until 1993 at which time he was named Chairman and President of Amoco Eurasia Petroleum Co. From the inception of Crestar Energy in 1991 until April 1996 he served as non-executive Chairman of the board of Crestar, a senior oil and gas company in Canada.
Now apparently retired to Houston

Tim Cejka
"was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and is married with two daughters.

"He began his career with Exxon over 25 years ago as a geophysicist mapping areas in the U.S. He has served in various line management positions as well as strategic planning, as advisor to the Upstream Director for Exxon Corporation, and as Exploration Advisor for Exxon's Netherlands and German affiliates. He was Vice President of Exxon Ventures CIS and traveled extensively in Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Russia and Turkmenistan. Post merger of Exxon and Mobil he became Vice President for the Caspian/Middle East region for ExxonMobil Exploration Company. His current position is Executive Vice President for ExxonMobil Exploration with responsibilities for exploration and geoscience in Europe, Africa, Middle East and the Caspian Region."

Cejka is Co-Chairman of the Board for the US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce.

Reza Vaziri
President of R.V. Investment Group, has been actively involved in business with Azerbaijan since just after its independence. Most recently, Mr. Vaziri successfully negotiated for concessions to Azerbaijan’s gold resources. Prior to his business career, which initially focused on caviar and fine foods, Mr. Vaziri held a number of high-ranking positions in the pre-revolutionary Iranian Government. He was the Head of Foreign Relations Office at the Ministry of the Imperial Court of Iran. At the time of the revolution, he was Chief of the Office of Political and International Affairs. Mr. Vaziri holds a Law Degree from the National University of Iran.

Farhad Azima
Since 1981, Mr. Azima has served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Aviation Leasing Group of Companies (ALG). ALG is directly involved in airline operations and technical support of the aviation industry. The Group currently owns, operates, and/or manages over 50 aircraft, many of which are operated by ALG’s associated company Buffalo Airways. Farhad Azima is Chairman of Buffalo Airways which, in addition to its airline operations, conducts a sophisticated training program which includes training for the FAA, a number of other airlines, and training for the U.S. Navy E6 program, a program which is also under consideration by the U.S. Air Force.

Betty Blair
Staff Assistant, Department of Agricultural
and Extension Education
The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA.
February, 1997 – present

Professor Howard Chase
BA, Natural Sciences, University of Cambridge, 1975
MA, University of Cambridge, 1978
PhD, Chemical Microbiology, University of Cambridge, 1979
ScD, Chemical Engineering, University of Cambridge 2001
CBiol, MIBiol, CChem, MRSC, CEng, FIChemE.

Don Condon
president and general manager of Conoco Energy Ventures Inc., is responsible for development of integrated energy ventures for Conoco Inc. He is based in Houston, with responsibility for Africa, Asia, Eurasia, Latin America and the Middle East.

Stanley Escudero
U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan (1997-Sept. 2000)
Stan Escudero is President of Shield Bearer L.L.C., a newly-established but already successful consulting firm based in Azerbaijan and Florida. A veteran Bakuvian, Stan first arrived in Azerbaijan in 1997 as Ambassador of the United States. Using his extensive access at the highest levels of the Azerbaijani government as well as his detailed knowledge of the Caucasus and Central Asia, Stan was always ready to help businessmen avoid the pitfalls of new endeavors in Azerbaijan or to resolve the problems endemic to business activity in a former Soviet economy. Ably supported by his popular and active wife Jaye, he quickly established a reputation and a productive track record as one ambassador who is dedicated to the success of American business abroad. Together they became and remain strong and effective supporters of USACC and AMCHAM.

Long a believer in the future of Azerbaijan and the outstanding opportunities available to the careful and well-advised investor, Stan is one advisor who put his money and his life where is mouth is. He retired in November, 2000, after almost 34 years of service with the American government. Within weeks demand for his knowledge and contacts brought him back to Azerbaijan as a consultant for such companies as British American Tobacco and as a member of the board of Central Asia Energy/Karasu Operating Company, the local arm of Moncrief Oil International. Many other clients sought his services and, by mid-summer 2001, Stan was spending more time in Baku than in America. At the urging of several clients he and Jaye agreed to return permanently and, by the end of August, Stan was back in Baku setting up a branch office of Shield Bearer. Jaye joined him in October. Their older son Alex already lived in Baku, working in import-export and, with the arrival in December of their younger son Benjamin, also engaged in import-export, the Escudero family was reunited in Azerbaijan.

Born in 1942 in Daytona Beach, Florida, Stan is a graduate of the University of Florida. He entered the American Foreign Service in 1967 -- he and Jaye were married that same year. In a career focused principally on Central and South Asia, Stan became a skilled navigator of the Washington labyrinth as well as a consummate regional expert. He and Jaye served in Pakistan (1967-68), Niger (1968-70), Iran (1971-75) Iran again (in an exciting 1978-79 undercover operation during the Iranian revolution), India (1984-87), as Political Advisor to the Commander-in-Chief of Central Command (Marine Gen. George Christ and Army Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf 1987-89), and Egypt (1990-92). In the latter year he was named the first ever American ambassador to the newly independent Republic of Tajikistan, a dangerous 1992-95 assignment during which he and his staff became the only U.S. embassy ever to be evacuated under fire inside Russian armor. He followed Tajikistan with a posting as ambassador to neighboring Uzbekistan (1995-97) before coming to Azerbaijan. At the time of his retirement in 2000, Stan was the only American diplomat ever to serve three ambassadorships in the nations of the former Soviet Union, making him the senior official of the government of the United States most experienced in this region.

Nader Fahm
Born in Tehran, Iran in 1953, Mr. Fahm arrived in the US from Switzerland in 1972 to further pursue his studies. Majoring in Civil Engineering, he attended Menlo College and University of California, Berkeley, and went to the University of San Francisco for his MBA.
In 1980, he started Alfanco Inc., a Houston based real estate development company specializing in high rise office buildings. The sixty two story landmark heritage plaza building in downtown Houston presently the Texaco building being one of Alfanco’s projects. In 1994, he formed Alfacom, a telecom consulting firm representing several major Telecom Companies in the Middle East

Andrew Fawthrop
Andrew L. Fawthrop<1> is "Vice President of New Ventures for Unocal Corporation responsible for the West Caspian and Middle East.

Mike Kostiw
Mike Kostiw is General Manager, International Government Relations, Chevron Texaco.

David Sambrooks
David J. Sambrooks, 43, "serves as Vice President and General Manager - International Division for Devon Energy Corporation. Prior to the merger with Devon, Mr. Sambrooks served as General Manager of International Business Development and Western Hemisphere Production for Santa Fe Snyder Corporation. Mr. Sambrooks began his professional career in 1980 with Sun Exploration and Production Company (later Oryx Energy) and held positions of increasing responsibility before joining Santa Fe Energy Resources in 1990. During his 10-year tenure with Santa Fe, Mr. Sambrooks held progressive positions in engineering and management covering South Texas, Offshore Gulf of Mexico, and beginning in 1993, International. Mr. Sambrooks received a Bachelor of Science degree in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Texas, Austin and an M.B.A. from the Executive Program at the University of Houston."



Ilham Aliyev
Ilham Aliyev was "born in Azerbaijan in 1961. Mr. Aliyev is the son of the current President of Azerbaijan and is Vice President of the State Oil Company of the Azerbaijan Republic (SOCAR). He graduated from Moscow University with a degree in International Affairs and a Master Degree in History. Mr. Aliyev taught at the university from 1985 until 1990 following graduation when he then became a private entrepreneur in his native country. He is in charge of Foreign Economic Relations for SOCAR as well as being one of the principal negotiators for all agreements."

Richard Moncrief
Richard Moncrief is a "third generation principal in Moncrief Oil, a family owned exploration and production company with headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas, and is the owner of Moncrief Oil International, Inc. Mr. Moncrief has served on the Board of Directors of the Independent Petroleum Association of America, the JP Morgan Chase Bank of Texas, and is a member of the All-American Wildcatters. He holds a Bachelor's of Science degree in Petroleum from the University of Texas.

[Pallas180]

66. Some questions about these players

this Azima has very little bio

the ones that have very little, can you google

and also all the names , name + bush and name + carlyle, or company
+ carlyle.

I could almost be amused but I'm not.

the president's son is negotiating contracts with Baker?

that poor guy better count his fingers and toes after a meeting with
mr. slime.

cheez - not to insult anyone - but has texas ever exported anything
good? - they all come from Houston and thereabouts.

Oil is black and so apparently are the hearts of these people.

[starroute]

81. Lloyd Bentsen's name sets off alarm bells

One of his sons was in the TANG with W. Another was in partnership with James Bath. And even though he and George H.W. Bush were technically on opposing sides in more than one election, they seem to have been on the same side in every way that counted:

From Pete Brewton's The Mafia, CIA and George Bush:

"Something very significant happened during our country's savings-and-loan crisis, the greatest financial disaster since the Great Depression. It happened quietly, secretly, without any fanfare and attention. It happened before our very eyes, yet we knew it not.

"What we all missed was the massive transfer of wealth from the American taxpayers to a select group of extremely rich, powerful people. What these people had in common -- unknown to the American public -- were their symbiotic relationships to the Mafia and the CIA, and to the two most prominent, powerful politicians from Texas, President George Bush and Senator Lloyd Bentsen.

<snip>

"It was not merely a fortuitous coincidence that both Bush, the Republican nominee for President, and Bentsen, the Democratic nominee for Vice President, were part of, and beholden to, the same group of Houston businessmen. Even if the Democrats lost that presidential election, as they did, Bentsen could still win re-election to his Senate seat under the so-called 'LBJ rule.'

<snip>

"But Bush won in 1988, and one of the reasons he did was his ability to keep the S&L scandal out of the political debate. He was assisted in this by none other than Bentsen, as we shall see. They both had much to hide, Bush in particular. Not only were many of the President-to-be's friends involved -- along with two of his sons -- but Bush himself, as Vice President, had personally intervened in the federal regulation of a dirty Florida savings and loan that was being looted by people with connections to the Mafia and the CIA. This S&L ultimately failed, costing taxpayers nearly $700 million."

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a389b6a173e33.htm
(Don't be misled by the Free Republic source -- the book excerpt is there because Freepers don't worry about copyright violation. But the Brewton book itself is sound.)


There's more information at http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/the_money_fountain.htm , much of it drawn from the Brewton book. A figure of particular significance is Walt Mischer:

"A central figure in the S&L sale of the century, was Walter Mischer, a close friend of Senator Lloyd Bentsen, and a long time 'acquaintance' of George Bush. Mischer was closely 'connected' to the New Orleans Marcello family, one of the most powerful Mafia families in the country. Never a "one family" man, he also did business with Mafia associates from New York and Chicago. Mischer is considered to be the most powerful man in Texas, and certainly one of the richest. His 'I'm just a country boy' demeanour belies a sharp, analytical business mind and an icy streak of ruthlessness. With a finger in every pie, his influence stretches wide to include, business, crime, finance, the intelligence community and domestic and international politics. Brewton believes that Mischer 'is without peer in Texas and perhaps in the entire country.' Regarded as a pragmatist he generally bets both ways in the political election stakes, placing money on both the rear and fore-legs of the horse we've come to know as 'Demopublican' politics."


And then, there's this:

"Elsewhere, Nicholas Brady, the Secretary of the Treasury under the first President Bush, and Edith Holiday, a former assistant to the first President Bush, serve on the board of Amerada Hess, which has teamed with some of Saudi Arabia's most powerful royal-family members to exploit the rich oil resources of Azerbaijan. In 1998 Amerada Hess formed a joint venture, Delta Hess, with the Saudi-owned Delta Oil to explore and exploit petroleum resources in Azerbaijan. The Houston-based Frontera Resources Corporation joined the Azerbaijan hunt the same year, teaming with the newly created Delta Hess. Among the members of Frontera's board of advisers: the former Texas senator former Secretary of the Treasury, and 1988 Democratic vice-presidential candidate Lloyd Bentsen; and John Deutch, a former CIA director."

http://foi.missouri.edu/evolvingissues/fallhouseofsaud.html

(Delta Oil is owned by the Al-Amoudi family, which is closely associated with the family of BCCI figure and bin Laden brother-in-law Kahlid bin Mahfouz. Thomas Kean is a director of Amerada Hess.)

[starroute]

83. Frontera Resources and Baker Hughes

Googling Frontera Resources Corporation brings up an Azerbaijan Business Report with this story:

"UNOCAL SUGGESTS DEVELOPMENT OF ON-SHORE OIL FIELDS. Unocal has indicated its strong interest in the development of the Kursanga and Karabagli on-shore oil fields in Azerbaijan. Informed sources revealed that further development of these oil fields will require the drilling of new wells and large up front capital investments. Unocal experts are due in Baku in the near future to study this issue and hold negotiations with SOCAR. Unocal is ready to act as the main operator of this project. Frontera Resources Corporation, which last month formed a strategic alliance with Baker Hughes Solutions, has also submitted to SOCAR a proposal for possible participation in this project. Frontera Resources Corporation was set up approximately a year ago. Other companies recently involved in the perspective structures include, Texaco, which completed a geological survey of Kursanga (two years ago) and Arco, which also conducted a technical survey of Kursanga and Karabagli shortly after Texaco's project was completed."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/usazerb/970830a.htm


And going on from there to Google Baker Hughes Solutions brings up this page -- which is on the tinfoil side, but intriguing:

"Although the Enron mess is the lead story everywhere the real connections between Enron, the Bush family and the biggest corporate crimes in American history are much deeper than is being reported. This morning I got a very long email . . .

It's dense with facts, not easily readable and many of the allegations about the Bush families' very close associate James A Baker III being tied to Howard Hughes and Enron seemed far-fetched - until I did a few searches of the Baker Hughes corporate website. Everything in this email seems to be confirmed from that and numerous other corporate websites. I'm stressing having checked with the corporate sites here as a place to start your own searching but there are also numerous websites where researchers have done groundwork on exposing these connections

<snip>

"Enron was previously called Hughes Tool -- as in Howard Hughes. From it's own website it would appear that Baker Hughes, a gigantic corporate combination of the Baker and Hughes Texas oil and gas interests, owns or is a major partner with every player in Iran Conta, the Gulf War, the international oil industry, the Saudis, arming China with advanced U.S. technology, the Rockefeller oil interests and our new "war on terrorism". Visit their website and you will be amazed at the companies they own and what they are into.
http://www.bakerhughes.com/bakerhughes/resources/energy.htm

<snip>

"It would seem that Bush, Cheney, Powell and many of the previous and current Bush administration's top members are intimately linked to Enron/Baker Hughes and that their link goes very far beyond receiving campaign donations. The donations regardless of how big are only the tip of a massive iceberg. The daily coverage of who took who's phone call - while they seem to be getting at something - are in fact a huge coverup and obfuscation. The Republicans are also putting out a lot of disinfo on Democrats who also got Enron campaign contributions. That they did get donations amounts to nothing in terms of the real scandal behind Bush/Enron."

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/enronhowdeepdig1,17,02.htm

It then goes on to tie Ken Starr, Ted Olson, and others of our favorite figures in to financial hanky-panky involving the Hughes Estate. (Given those two names, I wouldn't be surprised if this ties into the Swiftboat Veterans somewhere along the line as well. Though perhaps that might be too much to ask.)

Howard Hughes name is one of those that comes up from time to time when you start to dig into Houston politics. His father died in 1924, when he was 18, leaving him the patent rights to a drill bit which was crucial to the oil industry. This was the basis of his fortune. While he was a minor, his assets were controlled by the Board of Directors of Rice Institute -- now Rice University, seat of the James A. Baker III Institute on Public Policy. And he was married for a time to Ella Botts Rice, whose great-uncle left the bequest which provided for the founding of Rice Institute and whose grandfather was one of the original partner in Baker and Botts.

In addition, Ella's sister was the wife of William Stamps Farish Sr. And Dresser Industries (associated with Prescott Bush and later acquired by Halliburton) also tried at some point to acquire Hughes Tool, though I'm not sure just when.

[Pallas180]

86. there are always two names behind everything

Baker and *ush




"Enron was previously called Hughes Tool -- as in Howard Hughes. From it's own website it would appear that Baker Hughes, a gigantic corporate combination of the Baker and Hughes Texas oil and gas interests, owns or is a major partner with every player in Iran Conta, the Gulf War, the international oil industry, the Saudis, arming China with advanced U.S. technology, the Rockefeller oil interests and our new "war on terrorism". Visit their website and you will be amazed at the companies they own and what they are into.
http://www.bakerhughes.com/bakerhughes/resources/energy... "

no surprise

[Zan_of_Texas]

101. I'm not so sure about that.

Enron was previously called Hughes Tool

What is your source for that?

Enron was a pipeline company before it was called Enron and before Ken Lay and the gang came aboard.

I have three books in my lap right now:

Pipe Dreams: Greed, Ego, and the Death of Enron by Robert Bryce

Power Failure: The Inside Story of the Collapse of Enron by Mimi Swartz with Sherron Watkins

The Smartest Guys in the Room: The Amazing Rise and Scandalous Fall of Enron, by Bethany McLean and Peter Elkind

Not one of them has Baker or Baker Hughes in the index.

So, I'll need more documentation to accept that.


What I did find stunning on that Baker Hughes website was the bio of one of their board members. Does nake ya want to give the company another look. (Another is named EDWARD P. DJEREJIAN -- the name is a red flag to me but I don't remember why.)

Baker Hughes Board of Directors: Profile
http://www.bakerhughes.com/investor/about/bod.htm

JAMES F. McCALL (Director since 1996, Class III director) is Executive Director of the American Society of Military Comptrollers since 1991. He was Lieutenant General and Comptroller of the U.S. Army from 1988 until 1991, when he retired. General McCall was commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant of Infantry in 1958 and was selected into the Army's Comptroller/ Financial Management career field in 1970. General McCall is Chairman of the Board of Enterprise Bancorp Inc. He is also a member of the Board of Directors of the American Refugee Committee.

When you look at the record of the military in keeping track of its finances, it's an unqualified disaster. It makes the scandals of corporations look like lunch money. If I were member of a society of military comptrollers, I would keep it a secret!

Even their own AUDITORS were cooking the books. It's safe to wonder if this ongoing problem is not just military finances out-of-control, but a military bent on criminal behavior.

<><><><>
Report: Pentagon Auditors Altered Files

Yahoo News Jan. 10, 2004
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20040110/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/watchdog_fraud

By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Pentagon auditors spent 1,139 hours altering their own files in order to pass an internal review, say investigators who found that the accounting sleuths engaged in just the kind of wasteful activity they are supposed to expose. When the auditors in the New York City office learned well in advance which files a review team would check, they spent the equivalent of more than 47 days doctoring the papers and updating records from several audits, the Defense Department's inspector general concluded.

<><><><>
According to True Majority: "The Pentagon seems to be generating bigger accounting mistakes than all of Corporate America combined. The GAO and the Defense Department’s own Inspector General found that $2.3 trillion in accounting entries were simply not supported by “adequate audit trails” or “sufficient evidence” in the books they audited. That makes Worldcom’s recent admissions of 7 billion mis-stated dollars seem like a rounding error."

<><><><>
The Pentagon's own inspector general recently admitted that the department could not account for more than a trillion dollars of past spending. A congressional investigation reported that inventory management in the army was so weak it had lost track of 56 airplanes, 32 tanks, and 36 missile launchers. "There's no accountability," said Danielle Brian, head of the Washington budget watchdog, Project on Government Oversight. "Any other agency would be closed down but the Pentagon is Teflon. Any challenge to the Pentagon is seen as unpatriotic." " "So much for the peace dividend: Pentagon is winning the battle for a $400bn budget." Guardian Unlimited, by Julian Borger in Washington and David Teather in New York, Thursday May 22, 2003, <http://www.guardian.co.uk>

[Pallas180]

102. James McCall rings a bell

is that the same McCall as the Bay of Pigs and/or the plumbers?

could be.

[shraby]

109. Edward P. Djerejian

James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University

Edward P. Djerejian is the first Director of the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University, where he assumed his new position in August 1994. He is one of our country's most distinguished and experienced diplomats. His career has spanned the administrations of eight U.S. Presidents. A leading expert on the complex political, security, economic, religious and ethnic issues of the Middle East, Ambassador Djerejian has held a number of increasingly responsible positions related to this vital region.

Prior to his nomination by President Clinton as United States Ambassador to Israel (1993), Ambassador Djerejian served both President Bush and President Clinton as Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs (1991-1993) and President Reagan and President Bush as U.S. Ambassador to the Syrian Arab Republic (1988-1991). Ambassador Djerejian has also served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs (1986-1988) and Deputy Chief of the U.S. mission to the Kingdom of Jordan (1981-1984). In these capacities he played a key role in the Arab-Israeli peace process, the U.S.-led coalition against Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, successful efforts to end the civil war in Lebanon, the release of U.S. hostages in Lebanon, and the establishment of collective and bilateral security arrangements in the Persian Gulf.

Ambassador Djerejian was assigned to the White House in 1985 as Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Press Secretary of Foreign Affairs.

In addition to his experience in Middle Eastern affairs, Ambassador Djerejian is also an expert in Soviet and Russian affairs. He was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Moscow from 1979 to 1981, where he headed the political section, during the critical period in U.S.-Soviet relations marked by the invasion of Afghanistan.

(more)

<http://www.eurasia.org/who/bio_djerejian.html>

[starroute]

110. Enron = Houston Natural Gas + InterNorth of Omaha (1985)

So the site I quoted from was wrong about that, at least. But the claim of a connection with Hughes Tool is made in multiple places online. I'll go check it out and add whatever I find to this post.

On edit: Baker Hughes is the result of a merger in 1987 between Baker Oil Tools and Hughes Tool Company. Hughes was founded in Houston in 1909 by Howard R. Hughes, Sr. Baker Oil Tools was founded at about the same time by R.C. (Carl) Baker of Coalinga, California -- presumably no relation to the Bakers of Houston.

At the time of the merger, both companies had fallen on hard times, but today Baker Hughes is the world's third-largest oil-services company behind Schlumberger and Halliburton. "Baker Hughes, with its headquarters in Houston, consolidated and trimmed operations and was able to make a profit by 1988. In 1990 the company purchased Eastman Christensen, a leading manufacturer of directional and horizontal drilling equipment, and in 1992 added Teleco Oilfield Services, another leader in the field. In 1992 Baker Hughes had sales of more than $2.5 billion and almost 20,000 employees."

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/BB/dobkh.html


So the online claim was partially wrong -- but Baker Hughes is definitely the successor of Hughes Tool, and that alone makes it worth taking a second look at.

[starroute]

112. Something else I found on Howard Hughes

I apologize for getting a little off topic here -- but the Hughes role in the early phases of the whole tangle of the Octopus was significant, and it isn't often mentioned. So here's a reminder

Throughout the 1950s, as the power of three entities grew -- the Hughes empire, organized crime, and the new Central Intelligence Agency -- it became all but impossible to distinguish between them. By the end of the decade, Hughes' chief of staff, Robert Maheu, had orchestrated the CIA's dirtiest secret -- plots to assassinate Cuban leader Fidel Castro with the help of two heads of organized crime. Vice President Richard Nixon was the White House action officer in the clandestine attempts to oust Castro. Zapata Off-Shore, the oil company owned by future CIA director and U.S. president George Bush after he split it off from Zapata Oil partner Hugh Liedtke in 1954, had a drilling rig on the Cay Sal Bank in 1958. These islands had been leased to Nixon supporter and CIA contractor Howard Hughes the previous year and were later used as a base for CIA raids on Cuba. Nixon lost the 1960 presidential election to John F. Kennedy largely because of a scandal over a never repaid $205,000 "loan" Nixon's brother received from Hughes. As attorney general, Robert Kennedy secretly investigated the Hughes-Nixon dealings.

After Bobby Kennedy's assassination in 1968, Maheu and Hughes hired long-time Kennedy advisor Larry O'Brien along with other political insiders to protect their interests in Washington. In 1953, Hughes had founded the Hughes Medical Institute in Delaware as his sole act of philanthropy. By turning over all of the stock of Hughes Aircraft Company to the institute, he made his billion-dollar-a-year weapons factory a tax-exempt charity. By 1969, that scam was about to be shut down by a Senate bill, which followed an investigation by fellow Texan Wright Patman, the powerful chairman of the House Banking Committee. But O'Brien lobbied his allies and got a loophole creating an exemption for "medical research organizations" like the Hughes Medical Institute.

President Nixon's downfall began when he ordered burglars to break into Larry O'Brien's office in 1972. At the time, O'Brien was both a Hughes employee and chairman of the Democratic National Committee, headquartered in the Watergate Hotel. The Watergate burglars happened to have been heavily involved in the covert anti-Castro operations (which Nixon oversaw as vice president). They were also deeply involved in the conspiracies which grew out of those operations; conspiracies which prevented any major political future for the Kennedy family, and led directly to Nixon's resurrection from political obscurity. The purpose of the break-in was never revealed because the Watergate scandal's investigations were sidetracked, likely on purpose, into a focus on multiple other high crimes by Nixon. Whatever the purpose of the break-in, Hughes was right in the middle of the major forces linking the conspiracies that resulted in the murders and character assassinations of the Kennedy brothers, and the Watergate scandal that toppled the Nixon administration.

http://www.famoustexans.com/howardhughes.htm

And from the same page, a bit of trivia that might or might not be meaningful:

It was in the '30s that Hughes built the Texas Theater, the movie house in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas in which Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in 1963. The closeness of both men to the CIA makes it all but certain that the Texas Theater would have become a clandestine meeting place for spies. Such use of movie theaters had long been a staple of espionage tradecraft, and other Hughes properties were put to similar use.

[Me.]

196. Hey Gang...

Nice ti see you're back in business again. I came by to read and it occurred to me that as there have been *ush connections to nazis, I wondered if there was anything in Argentina because that's where so many of them fled. So I took a quick break and a google produced a most unexpected article that I thought you might want for your work... It's a very long article.



The Enron-Cheney-Taliban Connection?
By Ron Callari

<<snip>>

Could the Big Secret be that the highest levels of the Bush Administration knew during the summer of 2001 that the largest bankruptcy in history was imminent? Or was it that Enron and the White House were working closely with the Taliban -- including Osama bin Laden -- up to weeks before the Sept. 11 attack? Was a deal in Afghanistan part of a desperate last-ditch "end run" to bail out Enron? Here's a tip for Congressional investigators and federal prosecutors: Start by looking at the India deal. Closely.

http://www.alternet.org/story/12525, Albion Monitor. Posted February 28, 2002.

[Pallas180]

85. Thanks - this is the one name that was missing

" Nicholas Brady, the Secretary of the Treasury under the first President Bush, and Edith Holiday, a former assistant to the first President Bush, serve on the board of Amerada Hess, which has teamed with some of Saudi Arabia's most powerful royal-family members to exploit the rich oil resources of Azerbaijan. In 1998 Amerada Hess formed a joint venture, Delta Hess, with the Saudi-owned Delta Oil to explore and exploit petroleum resources in Azerbaijan. The Houston-based Frontera Resources Corporation joined the Azerbaijan hunt the same year, teaming with the newly created Delta Hess. Among the members of Frontera's board of advisers: the former Texas senator former Secretary of the Treasury, and 1988 Democratic vice-presidential candidate Lloyd Bentsen; and John Deutch, a former CIA director.""

I'm sure if we started googling some of those names or companies we'd
find either a joint venture with pappy or a person who is also with
Carlyle. the pappy name has to be in there somewhere.

[Pallas180]

88. One name always comes up

Permission to reprint is granted, provided it includes this autobiographical note, and credit for first publication to Online Journal.



The entire article is well worth the read:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011004hasty.html



"Nor, finally, is it in any way a "theory" that the one, single name that can be directly linked to the Third Reich, the US military industrial complex, Skull and Bones, Eastern Establishment good ol' boys, the Illuminati, Big Texas Oil, the Bay of Pigs, the Miami Cubans, the Mafia, the FBI, the JFK assassination, the New World Order, Watergate, the Republican National Committee, Eastern European fascists, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the United Nations, CIA headquarters, the October Surprise, the Iran/Contra scandal, Inslaw, the Christic Institute, Manuel Noriega, drug-running "freedom fighters" and death squads, Iraqgate, Saddam Hussein, weapons of mass destruction, the blood of innocents, the savings and loan crash, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, the "Octopus," the "Enterprise," the Afghan mujaheddin, the War on Drugs, Mena (Arkansas), Whitewater, Sun Myung Moon, the Carlyle Group, Osama bin Laden and the Saudi royal family, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, and the presidency and vice-presidency of the United States, is: George Herbert Walker Bush.

"Theory?" To the contrary.

It is a well-documented, tragic and—especially if you're paranoid—terrifying fact.

Michael Hasty is a writer, activist, musician, carpenter and farmer. His award-winning column, "Thinking Locally," appeared for seven years in the Hampshire Review, West Virginia's oldest newspaper. His writing has also appeared in the Highlands Voice, the Washington Peace Letter, the Takoma Park Newsletter, the German magazine Generational Justice, and the Washington Post; and at the websites Common Dreams and Democrats.com. In January 1989, he was the media spokesperson for the counter-inaugural coalition at George Bush's Counter-Inaugural Banquet, which fed hundreds of DC's homeless in front of Union Station, where the official inaugural dinner was being held.

Permission to reprint is granted, provided it includes this autobiographical note, and credit for first publication to Online Journal.



ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[shraby]

111. Frontera Resources Project

Sounds like it's a Bush project<G>

In July 2000 the EBRD decided to allocate a 60 million USD loan for the commercial exploitation of oil by the Frontera Resources Corporation in the Kursangi and Karabagli fields in Azerbaijan and in Block 12 in eastern Georgia. This was the logical continuation of the process started in March 2000, when due to the miscategorization of the project, a 10 million USD loan was approved by the EBRD Board without requiring an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) and proper public consultations.

The Frontera Resources Corporation project in Azerbaijan and Georgia represents a clear example of a highly controversial project in the whole cycle of development. The project violated EBRD environmental procedures and aims to extract oil in a strict Nature Reserve area in Azerbaijan, established for the protection the endangered Jayran deer. The inadequate Environmental Impact Assessment raises many local and regional issues: weak oil spill response and waste management plans, weak environmental monitoring plans, absence of a calculation of full life time cycle of CO2, and non-compliance with the Espoo Convention. Among all of these controversies, one of the most acute issues appeared - problems with the public participation process. According to the EBRD, its involvment in the project was guaranteed to strengthen democracy and "higher standards of business conduct and environmental protectionÆ. In the Frontera case this was far from true as problems with the public participation process appeared at each step. Despite this, however, there was not an adequate response from EBRD. Examples of these problem areas are:

Scoping Process

Frontera Resources informed the NGO community about scoping two days in advance in both countries. At the scoping meeting in Georgia, the organizers had problems determining the aims of meeting. The documents about the content of the Environmental Impact Assessment and the public consultation process were not distributed either before or during the meeting. Furthermore, in Azerbaijan Frontera Resources held the scoping meeting in Salyan, a regional center 120 km from Baku where the project would be implemented and they distributed information only three days before the meeting. This actually reduced the participation of environmental groups from Baku.

Environmental Impact Assessment documentation and Language issue

Frontera Resources Corporation does not provide the Georgian and Azerbaijani public with Environmental Impact Assessments (EIA) and other relevant documentation in national languages. Even more, they further limited the public participation process by refusing to provide interested people with electronic and hard copies. In Georgia, for example, public hearings were arranged on June 23rd, without presenting documentation in Georgian. On July 12, 2000, a Georgian version of the project's EIA was submitted to the State Regulatory Agency of Oil and Gas Resources of Georgia. This illustrates the aims of Frontera to restrict the Georgian language EIA information flow during the EBRD procedures.

(more)

<http://www.bankwatch.org/issues/ebrd/downloads/frontera-finalissue.html>

[shraby]

113. United States-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce

(snip)

Treasurer
Karl Mattison

Mr. Mattison has specialized in international banking, relationship management and client development since 1995. As a vice president in the International Department of Riggs Bank in Washington, D.C., Mr. Mattison is responsible for managing Riggs' Eurasian Group, which handles the banking and investment needs of embassies and diplomats of more than 25 of Washington's foreign missions.

Prior to becoming vice president of the Eurasian Group, Mr. Mattison served as executive assistant to the chairman of Riggs Bank in a special two-year assignment. As assistant to the chairman, he managed the day-to-day responsibilities of the chairman's office and traveled with the chairman reinforcing relationships around the world.

Mr. Mattison studied political science at Davidson College with special coursework at Moscow Aviation Institute in Russia, and he attended graduate school in CIS and Central European Studies at Georgetown University.


Corporate Members of USACC

ACDI/VOCA
Agip
AJG Investments
Amerada Hess
American International Group
American-Turkish Council
Assembly of Turkish American Associations
Aviation Leasing Group
AZEL
Azerbaijan International
AzEuroTel
Baker Botts, LLP
Baker & McKenzie
Bertling Logistics
Boeing Company
BP
Chevron
Coca-Cola
Conoco
Devon Energy
Ernst & Young
ExxonMobil
Eurasia Foundation
Halliburton Company
Hyatt Regency
McDermott
Metromedia Int'l Telecommunications
Moncrief Oil International
Motorola
Omni Communications
Petroleum Finance Company
Philip Morris
Phillips Petroleum Company
PricewaterhouseCoopers
Puma Energy
Riggs National Bank, N.A.
Salans Hertzfeld & Heilbronn
Shell EP Int'l. Ventures
Sikorsky Aircraft
Solar Turbines
Squire, Sanders and Dempsey LLP
Surfers LLC
Tatrimex Ltd.
Unocal
Vertex Corporation

(more)
<http://elitewatch.911review.org/USACC.html>

[shraby]

61. Remember I said

I thought all roads would lead to Rome? Sibel, Plame and 9/11? The reason I didn't want to go into 9/11 is because it's got so much written about it, conspiracy theories, wild accusations, etc. Nobody had worked on Sibel and Plame so everything would be pristine, and guess what, we entered 9/11 from the backside. :bounce:

Too bad RP is gone for a few days, he'd enjoy this. It's ready for his magic touch.

[shraby]

63. Here is a link to an article

analyzing the Caspian sea and oil, pipelines, etc.

<http://members.tripod.com/~KELSAGHIR/Caspian/index>

Another site analyzing environmental concerns

<http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/caspenv.html>

[Zan_of_Texas]

74. Here's a map from that interesting paper.

Existing and Potential Oil and Gas Export Routes from the Caspian Basin

[Pallas180]

72. Shraby is a "backdoor" genius ! -:) RP will have

plenty to do - we always back up with links to articles confirming.

this is a pretty terrible theory - but it fits doesn't it.
There's a lot of different pieces to this. From different perspectives.

The guy with the airplane company on the board. That's interesting.

On another thread they're talking about the airplane that went into
the wtc. And bystanders said it had no windows. Like a cargo plane
might not have windows - and it had some kind of emblem on the side
and they said it wasn't American..that it was no American plane. hmmmm

then they're asking well what happened to the real plane and passengers? that's a logical question. If it was a different plane that went into the building, then nothing good happened to those passengers. There was a tape at the airtraffic controllers, remember,
that the guy ripped up to pieces.

Would a guy like Mohammed Atta commit suicide. Doesn't sound like a
suicide type guy to me.





ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Zan_of_Texas]

62. Clever, anyone?

As to the kudos, aw shucks.

Anyone want to take crack at the Council on Foreign Relations closed discussion site on the Caspian Sea?

Exploiting Turkmenistan's Oil and Gas Reserves:
Proposals and Possible Solutions

Here are a couple of maps (long hyperlink)

http://www.treemedia.com/cfrlibrary/library/energy/
greatgamemaps.html

(Sort of reminds me of a map or two that were used in the Cheney "Energy Task Force" (was that "energy" or "invasion"???) discussions.)

But, I'd love to see the archived discussion, 1998-1999. Anybody happen to have a password?
http://treemedia.com/cfrlibrary

from the site:

CONFIDENTIALITY:
We want to remind participants of the strict confidentiality rules under which we are operating the online discussion. In the interests of frankness and openness with one another, participants are not to divulge outside the group the content of exchanges which occur online. Once the roundtable discussion concludes, we will decide together whether it would be appropriate to post or publish a summary of our findings. Even in that event, the verbatim exchanges, including the authors of the online contributions, will remain confidential.

[Zan_of_Texas]

64. Meanwhile, somebody is getting a pipeline.....

Deals Signed for Caspian Sea Oil Pipeline

Officials Sign Financing Agreements for $3.6 Billion Pipeline to Send Caspian Oil to the West

The Associated Press

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040203_1427.html

BAKU, Azerbaijan Feb. 3 - Government officials Tuesday signed financing agreements for a $3.6 billion pipeline to transport Caspian Sea oil to Western markets. The 1,100-mile pipeline is to extend from Baku, across Georgia and to the Turkish port of Ceyhan, where the oil can be loaded onto tankers for Western markets. Representatives from the three countries and a group of creditors signed the agreements.

...Azerbaijan President Ilham Aliev hailed the pipeline as having a stabilizing effect on the region. The pipeline is already 15 percent completed and could begin operation in 2005.

...The pipeline is expected to supply international markets with 1 million barrels a day of Caspian Sea oil by the end of the decade. The pipeline consortium, headed by BP oil company, came up with $1 billion of the funding, while the remainder of the cost comes from export-import banks and credits from the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development and the International Finance Corporation.

Azerbaijan's state oil company along with Statoil, Eni, Total, Unocal and ConocoPhillip are also involved in the project.

[shraby]

65. S'pose they want to

cut out the middle men (Georgia and Turkey) is why the drum beating for Iran?

[shraby]

69. What are Bush’s political objectives? It is more about Iran

Lays it all out. Published Date: 7/13/2003

This may answer two questions: The first, what are Bush’s political objectives? It is not so much Iraq’s WMD as we were led to believe; it is more about Iran. Bush will try to outflank Iran and not allow oil and gas pipelines to run through Iran from the Northern Caspian region, Russia, Caspian Sea, and Turkmenistan/ Kazakhstan, South to the Persian Gulf and into Pakistan. Bush, inextricably tied to western oil interests, wants to run their pipelines through Afghanistan into Pakistan as the counter weight on the Eastern front. Then pipelines through Iraq, an Iraq controlled by the U.S., is the counterweight on the Western front. Control Baghdad, you control the Euphrates and Tigris rivers’ trade waterways. But Russia will try to dominate in the North, with pipelines running North and Northwest into Russia and across to the Black Sea; China will try to dominate the East with pipelines running East and Southeast into China, "The Silk Road" route. Put succinctly: Russia wants the Black Sea routes, China the Silk Road routes, Bush wants everything to flow South from the entire region into his deep pockets via the Persian Gulf routes. Geography rules even if borders no longer matter. Also, recently reported (Jan/May 2003 NYT), Russia is negotiating massive pipeline routes from its Siberian oil fields: one from Angarsk into the northern industrial region of China and a separate one which would bypass China. Negotiating with the Japanese for a pipeline which would run from Lake Baikal to the port of Nakhodka, near Vladivostok on the Sea of Japan. Oil is the Great Game and everyone is in on it. Russia and China have already opened dialogue on security issues with India, and Japan will not remain in economic doldrums forever.
The second is control of the future; the encirclement of Iran, isolating its oil and gas production, is again, but one of many goals. Control of these routes is primary to western interest’s control of the future. Thus, while Russia and China seem "out of it" today, they along with India have been holding trilateral security meetings regularly since Bush removed the Taliban, and have gone further since the invasion and occupation of Iraq. They see the chessboard. Bush may be pressing the United States into a highly lucrative new Cold War with this trilateral formation; Iran will not sit idle while this takes place. Iran is more the target than Iraq. To control, or dominate Iran, Mr. Bush has to encircle it: Afghanistan to the East, Turkey/Azerbaijan to the North, Iraq to the West, the South are already U.S. stooges. Pipelines, in effect, will become the new Berlin Wall. See the map attached.
The Caspian News Agency reported during the height of the invasion plans, 16:12 16.01.2003/ Iran and Azerbaijan nearing agreement on Caspian Sea: Baku(CNA). The Iranian Deputy Foreign minister Mekhti Safari arrived at Baku to hold talks with the Azeri officials on the Caspian sea. Azerbaijani and Iranian officials have considered dividing the Caspian Sea, which is believed to contain large oil and gas reserves, into five equal parts. Until the collapse of the Soviet Union, the sea's status was regulated by treaties between the Soviet Union and Iran. Azerbaijan says it is nearing an agreement with Iran on the legal status of the Caspian Sea.

(snip)

Azerbaijan is key to understanding the region and the power. During the past decade the only western source of power and force projection into the region was with the USACC: The United States Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce. It was this body that has, and remains, the source of negotiations, planning and structure in the region. Prior to many of its board members entering the present White House along with Mr. Bush, they were the force behind the U.S. Congressional effort called the Silk Road Strategy of 1996-1998; the Caspian initiative; Black Sea pipeline routes and the division of the Caspian Sea, etc.
The USACC Advisory Board consisted of “only” these seven men: Dr. Henry Kissinger, James A Baker III, Lloyd Bentsen, Zibigniew Brzezinski, Dick Cheney, Brent Scowcroft, John Sununu. It is noted here that the current Vice President’s daughter, Elizabeth Cheney-Perry, has been named Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs for regional economic issues; she left Armitage Associates for the job. The USACC Vice-Chairman of the Board is James A Baker IV (Baker Botts, L.L.P.); Chairman Emeritus is T. Don Stacy (VP, Amoco); with Richard Armitage as Board President, until he resigned to become Colin Powell’s Deputy, which rounds out the US elite running the USACC in the past and whose policies remain in place. The remaining Board of Directors are a who’s who of the oil and gas multinational corporate interests of the west and specifically the United States. On the Board of Trustees of USACC the latter interests hold sway again with three primary exceptions: Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) and Joseph R. Pitts (R-PA) (whose efforts formed the 1996 legislative backbone of the House/Senate Silk Road Strategy for Afghanistan, et al) and Richard Perle (US Defense Policy Board). The Legal Counsel for USACC is Ted Jones of the Texas Law firm Baker Botts L.L.P. (James A Baker III & IV’s law firm.); Treasurer is Karl Mattison (VP, Riggs Bank, NA). It was the James A. Baker III Institute of Rice University which outlined the Cheney Strategic Energy Initiative which later became the Administration’s Strategic Energy National Security Policy. (Clearly Dick Cheney wouldn’t be interested in giving Congress the names of those whom he consulted on the Energy Initiative as they would amount to the remainder of the Board of Directors and Board of Trustees of USACC.)

(more)

<http://www.theothernews.com/article.asp?dept=1&category=130&article=52>

[Pallas180]

75. Take a good look at names - Perry is Cheney's kid, Riggs

bank - wanna talk about money laundering?


Prior to many of its board members entering the present White House along with Mr. Bush, they were the force behind the U.S. Congressional effort called the Silk Road Strategy of 1996-1998; the Caspian initiative; Black Sea pipeline routes and the division of the Caspian Sea, etc.
The USACC Advisory Board consisted of “only” these seven men: Dr. Henry Kissinger, James A Baker III, Lloyd Bentsen, Zibigniew Brzezinski, Dick Cheney, Brent Scowcroft, John Sununu. It is noted here that the current Vice President’s daughter, Elizabeth Cheney-Perry, has been named Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs for regional economic issues; she left Armitage Associates for the job. The USACC Vice-Chairman of the Board is James A Baker IV (Baker Botts, L.L.P.); Chairman Emeritus is T. Don Stacy (VP, Amoco); with Richard Armitage as Board President, until he resigned to become Colin Powell’s Deputy, which rounds out the US elite running the USACC in the past and whose policies remain in place. The remaining Board of Directors are a who’s who of the oil and gas multinational corporate interests of the west and specifically the United States. On the Board of Trustees of USACC the latter interests hold sway again with three primary exceptions: Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) and Joseph R. Pitts (R-PA) (whose efforts formed the 1996 legislative backbone of the House/Senate Silk Road Strategy for Afghanistan, et al) and Richard Perle (US Defense Policy Board). The Legal Counsel for USACC is Ted Jones of the Texas Law firm Baker Botts L.L.P. (James A Baker III & IV’s law firm.); Treasurer is Karl Mattison (VP, Riggs Bank, NA). It was the James A. Baker III Institute of Rice University which outlined the Cheney Strategic Energy Initiative which later became the Administration’s Strategic Energy National Security Policy. (Clearly Dick Cheney wouldn’t be interested in giving Congress the names of those whom he consulted on the Energy Initiative as they would amount to the remainder of the Board of Directors and Board of Trustees of USACC.)

[Pallas180]

76. This can lead to World War with China, India, Japan, Russia

and never mind, that we are already at war with all of the Middle East

and Cheney I gather conveniently forgot to tell his fellow members of
the Chamber of Commerce that he "inadvertently" let nuclear components
fall off the trucks in all of those countries.

[Pallas180]

77. IMHO

it was never anything but MIHOP with all of this confirmed about oil
pipeline arrangements, the oil companies dividing the seas, and Baker,
Cheney, Perle and the rest involved.

There never was a terrorist threat, although there is now since the Muslims believe there Holy War is real and has been started.

There was an oil threat to the family pockets of the oil companies.

It has never been about anything but oil

MIHOP

MIHOP

MIHOP


ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Pallas180]

79. think about it, something like 80% of M. E.

is under the age of 20...I seem to remember majority are 15 years old

In threee years they'll be 18.

How many under 18's are in this country right now?

Now think why all of a sudden dimson wants to relax the border and
allow Mexicans, Guatemalans, Columbians etc to come in.

Cannon fodder for his wars.

[starroute]

82. And the James A. Baker III Institute was closely tied to Enron

http://www.pww.org/article/view/694/1/61/

When former Enron CEO Kenneth Lay and former Secretary of State James Baker welcomed Mikhail Gorbachev to Houston in 1997 to receive the Enron Prize for Distinguished Public Service, more was at stake than toasting corporate America’s victory in the Cold War.

<snip>

On hand at Rice University’s James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy for the three-day celebration were Henry Kissinger, Warren Christopher, Cyrus Vance and Baker – all former secretaries of state. Baker told the crowd that Gorbachev had “demonstrated incredible personal and political courage” in his role in the downfall of the Soviet Union. Lay was equally fulsome. Gorbachev is “one of a handful of people alive today who literally changed the world.” He handed Gorbachev a check for $250,000, as if to say, “cheap at the price.”

<snip>

On April 15, 1999, Lay and Baker conferred the Enron Prize on Eduard Shevardnadze, president of the Republic of Georgia. Again, the cliches poured out. The former Soviet foreign minister was a “leader of the democratic reform movements” in the Soviet Union.

<snip>

George W. Bush was governor of Texas while these celebrations gushed forth. Some of the Lay-Bush correspondence during those years has just been released in Austin. In one April 1997 letter, Lay reminds Bush of a scheduled reception at the governor’s mansion for a dignitary from Uzbekistan. Lay noted that Enron has just signed a $2 billion deal to develop and transport natural gas in Uzbekistan. “I know you and Ambassador Safaev will have a productive meeting which will result in a friendship between Texas and Uzbekistan,” said Lay’s note.

[Pallas180]

93. Thank you. Payoffs as prizes. Enron-Uzbekistan. One thing

you have to say, the dimsons are good to their friends - Ken Lay -
while they're screwing ordinary Americans who can least afford it -
Saving and Loan debacles, Enron Stocks and pensions...

And Enron has billions offshore.

disgust.

[Zan_of_Texas]

68. Meanwhile, Sam Brownback of the board of the Chamber of Commerce

I had never heard of him until recently. He is a Republican Senator from Kansas (and appears on that Chamber board of directors list above).

In "What's the Matter with Kansas," Thomas Frank writes a bit about Senator Brownback.

p. 70-71

"In 2002 he converted to Catholicism under the supervision of the Reverend John McCloskey, a leading light of Opus Dei, the ultraconservative prelature renowned for its role in the Franco regime in Spain. Nor is Opus Dei the only right-wing quasi cult with which Brownback has chosen to link himself. When in Washington, he lives in a town house operated by a Christian group known as the Family or the Fellowship, whose mission seems to be bringing together American lawmakers with capitalists and dictators from around the world."

Religious writer Jeffrey Sharlet befriended the members of Congress who live in this house, and found some rather astonishing things, all hovering just under the surface. p. 268 NOTES: "Sharlet supplies more details about the organization's connections with dictators in an interview published on Alternet http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16167

"Brownback is not mentioned in Sharlet's Harper's story, but his residence in the Family's town house was widely reported in April 2003."

From the alternet article:

"The Fellowship is one of the most secretive, and most powerful, religious organizations in the country. Its connections reach to the highest levels of the U.S. government and include ties to the CIA and numerous current and past dictators around the world."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's the way I see it. You've got globe trotting mafia, who are motivated by money and power. Then you've got neocons and Sharon supporters who are hoping to remake the Middle East as Israel would want it. Then, you've got Dominionists and Christian fundamentalists. Group 2 and 3 are happy to use each other, and Group 1 uses both. I see them as our current three branches of government. Not the judicial, legislative, and administrative.

Whether it's oil or drugs or diamonds, global resources are where there is bloodshed, because certain interests believe that they should have whatever they can take. The US government enables that behavior, and the military and CIA protect them.



"The problem is that the good Lord didn't see fit to put oil and gas reserves where there are democratically elected regimes friendly to the interests of the United States." -- Dick Cheney, quoted in "Houston, We Have A Problem," an alternative annual report on Halliburton, April, 2004, a Corpwatch report, with Global Exchange

[Pallas180]

73. Zan - love your tagline.. :)

like 50,000 people aren't reading this :)

[donkeyotay]

70. here's the Chamber of Commerce connection to Exim

Okay, here’s what I was trying to remember: Enron had an incredible amount of funding for overseas projects through the Overseas Private Investment Corp, which is a government agency. (Your tax dollars at work, helping Enron ruin countries.) OPIC has a partnership with the US Chamber of Commerce. That was the link I was thinking of. What it means, I don’t know. But I do recall that the sums of money Enron was getting from the taxpayers were huge…

The Chamber:

JULY 29, 2004
Contact: Andrew Yarrow [phone]

EX-IM CAN HELP TURKISH COMPANIES BUY U.S. EXPORTS, CHAIRMAN SAYS
Merrill Meets Business, Government Leaders in Istanbul to Expand U.S. Exports


WASHINGTON, DC - Turkey, which is already a top market for Export-Import Bank of the United States (Ex-Im Bank) trade finance, can expand its private-sector purchases of U.S. goods and services with Ex-Im Bank support, Bank Chairman Philip Merrill told Turkish business and government leaders during a week of high-level meetings in Istanbul this week….

Ex-Im Bank has a long history of supporting U.S. exports to Turkey, having authorized more than $1.5 billion in financing for energy-sector projects such as Gebze, Adapazari, Izmir, Ankara, and Kayseri,

http://www.exim.gov/pressrelease.cfm/0B594F23-971F-E91D-B8207D3C8D6D885E/


The US chamber has something called CIPE:
“The Center for International Private Enterprise (CIPE) is an independent, non-profit affiliate of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. As one of the four core institutes of the National Endowment for Democracy, CIPE promotes democratic and market-oriented economic reform by working directly with the private sector in developing countries.”

NED, another interesting connection.

[Pallas180]

78. Yup Donkeyotay-Enron is in India and ripped them off badly

also, I seem to remember.

[Zan_of_Texas]

80. Export Import Bank is pretty murky

At one point I tried to dig a bit -- their website was notably uninformative to the point of being evasive.

But, these guys who preach capitalism and survival of the fittest are the ones who use this multi-billion dollar quasi-government slush fund when their plans can't stand on their own and get private financing -- such as the multibillion dollar India plant at Dabhol that Enron built against all economic, local, and other advice. (Their hired goons beat those Indian locals who demonstrated against the plant, and dragged women out of their homes -- documented by Amnesty -- and somebody conveniently suspended the portion of the Indian constitution that allows peaceful assembly in that district.]

I have a theory about banking and loans.

We know that those who control resources control a lot -- oil, water, etc.

I also believe that those who control credit or capital control a lot. I consider it akin to a resource.

A company like Enron, built on sand, could get loans for billions of dollars for a plant that was economically unsound from the get-go (only way they got approval in India was HUGE bribes -- that is documented -- I believe it was on Frontline).

Meanwhile, talented small business people may not be able to scrape together $25,000 to start a business. Why? Not a good credit risk! Of course!

[Pallas180]

84. It all goes back to Bilderberg, Trilateral, Carlyle, WTO -G8 IMF

The bankers, the oil, and now the multinationals.the Butler book from the 1930's explained it before it was an Octopus - now it's a tangled mass of snakes.

[Pallas180]

87. the plan - waiting for the opportunity

Years, even decades before 9/11, plans had been drawn up for American forces to take control of the oil interests of the Middle East, for various imperialist reasons. And these plans were only contingent upon "a catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor," to gain the majority support of the American public to set the plans into motion. When the opportunity presented itself, the guards looked the other way . . . and presto, the path to global domination was open.

Simple, as long as the media played along. And there is voluminous evidence that the media play along. Number one on Project Censored's annual list of underreported stories in 2002 was the Project for a New American Century (now the infrastructure of the Bush Regime), whose report, published in 2000, contains the above "Pearl Harbor" quote.

snip

That "Rebuilding America's Defenses," the Project for a New American Century's 2000 report, and "The Grand Chessboard," a book published a few years earlier by Trilateral Commission co-founder Zbigniew Brzezinski, both recommended a more robust and imperial US military presence in the oil basin of the Middle East and the Caspian region; and that both also suggested that American public support for this energy crusade would depend on public response to a new "Pearl Harbor," is not "theory." It's fact.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011...


"In past ages, a war, almost by definiton, was something that sooner or later came

[Zan_of_Texas]

116. Do the media play along? Don't miss this one.

In researching the plot against FDR in 1934, I found this amazing bit, which the author says he took from the Congressional Record of 1917. In the 1915 period, US corporate interests were attempting to drag the US into the World War by various means.

"Wall Street and FDR, CHAPTER 10 - FDR; Man on the White Horse," by Anthony Sutton, 1975 http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-fdr-ch10.html


The role of leading newspapers and journals of opinion in reporting the (Smedley) Butler affair is equally suspect. In fact, their handling of the event has the appearance of outright distortion and censorship. The veracity of some major newspapers has been widely questioned in the last 50 years,21 and in some quarters the media have even been accused of a conspiracy to suppress "everything in opposition to the wishes of the interest served." For example, in 1917 Congressman Callaway inserted in The Congressional Record the following devastating critique of Morgan control of the press:

MR. CALLAWAY. Mr. Chairman, under unanimous consent, I insert in the Record at this point a statement showing the newspaper combination, which explains their activity in this war matter, just discussed by the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Moore):

In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interests, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and a sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press of the United States. These 12 men worked the problem out by selecting 179 newspapers, and then began by an elimination process, to retain only those necessary for the purpose of controlling the general policy of the daily press throughout the country. They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. The 25 papers were agreed upon; emissaries were sent to purchase the policy, national and international, of these papers; an agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.

This contract is in existence at the present time (1917), and it accounts for the news columns of the daily press of the country being filled with all sorts of preparedness arguments and misrepresentations as to the present condition of the United States Army and Navy and the possibility and probability of the United States being attacked by foreign foes. This policy also included the suppression of everything in opposition to the wishes of the interests served. The effectiveness of this scheme has been conclusively demonstrated by the character of stuff carried in the daily press throughout the country since March 1915. They have resorted to anything necessary to commercialize public sentiment and sandbag the National Congress into making extravagant and wasteful appropriations for the Army and Navy under the false pretense that it was necessary. Their stock argument is that it is "patriotism." They are playing on every prejudice and passion of the American people.22

21. See Herman Dinsmore, All the News That Fits, (New Rochelle: Arlington House, 1969).
22. Congressional Record, Vol. 55, pp. 2947-8 (1917).

[Pallas180]

120. Now why does that seem like deja vu? n/t

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[starroute]

100. I'm not at all sure those people are in control any more

I'll grant you they've got their own agenda and have their fingers in a lot of pies. For example, I was startled when I looked through my notes for Lloyd Bentsen and found him on a list of Bilderbergers that you posted a while back. But I think the control is rapidly slipping out of their hands.

I see three broad periods for this stuff:

1) From the end of World War II to about 1976. The US is the dominant power of the world. The power elite identifies its own interests closely with those of the US government and operates primarily by taking on government roles -- either running for office or accepting strategic appointments. (Bush, Harriman, the Dulles brothers. The Rockefellers. Henry Cabot Lodge.)

2) From 1976 to 2001. US economic and political power are starting to slip gradually, and the power elite responds by operating increasingly outside of US interests and official US policies. The Octopus. Iran-Contra. BCCI. Savings and loan scandal. CIA often has the appearance of a rogue force. CIA's drug-smuggling, money-laundering, and arms-trading operation in Pakistan/Afghanistan takes on a life of its own -- one result is Pakistani nuclear program and proliferation, which US seems unwilling or unable to suppress. A great funneling of the national wealth away from the nation's people and into the pockets of the few.

3) Since 2001. US power elite begins to lose control of the outside forces it has created: Al Qaeda. Local mafias (Russian/Israeli, Indian.) Arms smugglers/diamond traders in Africa. Competition from countries such as China (eg, Chinese oil interests in Sudan.) US politicians being bribed or manipulated by outsiders (Saudis, Israel, China) rather than being the bribers and manipulaters. US resorting to military force because indirect methods of control no longer work. Increasing panic on the part of former masters of the world and intense but deeply concealed fractures within the power elite.

[Pallas180]

107. Interesting premise Starroute. I agree with the premise

but think the time periods may be off.

I guess the fact that Halliburton/Cheney Rumsfeld/ABB and pappy/china
blackmarketing nuclear materials does fit in to #2

And the S&L and ENron and exporting of manufacturing did take place from 76 to 2001. It fits.

#3 - when Zigbrsnksi gets on television and disapproves of dimson's
performance, I guess you're right. Panic onthe part of the former masters and fractures within the power elite.
I dont even think Pappy can stand junior at this point.

[Minstrel Boy]

71. If any thread deserves a kick,

it's this one.

[Kool Kitty]

114. I'll second that.

This stuff is blowing my mind.

[Pallas180]

115. Pssst. Kitty.

Don't tell anybody.

:)

[Kool Kitty]

117. I'm just getting around to reading all of this,

and the other threads. I know I am a little late to all this, but, jeez, I mean, what the fuck? I want to tell everybody, I'm trying to figure out how to tell my husband all of this stuff, but I think I'll just let him read it himself. All of this really has less to do with the attacks of September 11 (and terrorism) than with oil, drugs, money, doesn't it? (Or am I a complete dolt?) Frightening, frightening stuff.

[Zan_of_Texas]

121. It IS mind-blowing, isn't it.

We walk around in this media fog/hypnosis, and it is challenging to shake it off. I don't think you can start from zero and grasp a lot of it all at once, because no one wants to believe in this much muck.

It all seems new and startling. But, it turns out that when American colonists threw the tea in Boston Harbor, they were objecting to the world's largest corporation of the time, East India Company. And, part of East India's, um, international diversification strategy was dealing opium from the Far East. They were incredibly powerful and rich and had their own private army, IIRC. And, they had the British government dealt in and wrapped around their little grubby fingers.

Now, the current slime just tell the government and the judges they raise from pups what the laws should be, and things that ought to be a crime (how about torturing prisoners) become not-crime.

These are Orwellian times. Think of the War on Drugs as merely a war on upstarts who would compete with the Big Boys.

Sigh.

[Pallas180]

123. Yep. and tomorrow is another day.

:hi:

niters you well informed DU'ers !

[shraby]

124. It's great when people can

read from thread 1 and follow it through because it develops as it goes from thread to thread. There are those posts that went no place, then there were some that led to another to another and developed a story of what is going on and how we arrived at the American Judas paper. Then the American Judas paper lays what we found out very nicely. We could probably still go back over the 20 threads and follow some leads we overlooked and find even more that we had. It's the same with the Sibel thread and how it developed through the different posts. There are a lot of names and companies that could still be googled and would buttress the story even more. We really haven't tied the "arms" part of Sibel's interview to this yet except from the American Judas where Cheney is in the business and also prominent in the oil dealings in Azerbaijan. Also the drugs part has to be developed that she mentioned. Get digging people.

[Pallas180]

127. Shraby - you want to google international drug arrests?

will that do it? and do we want to look at the drugs?

Although googling drug arrests around Sarasota where Atta hung out
might do it.

Did anyone mention on here that Atta appeared to be contracted with the CIA cause he seemed to have a lot of protection. I think REb
may have that info .

Shall I bring it over?

[Pallas180]

122. Kitty - there was no

attack, or let's say no external attack.

PNAC and Zbrinski's "New Pearl Harbor", U.S. govt. plans which existed for decades, even as far back as 1960's there was a Northwoods
plan for our own government to attack and kill American citizens. The US govt.needed a way to make the American people willing to go to war.
PNAC spoke of a catastrophic attack. Wasn't it handy we had one, just
when oil contracts had to be executed, and Saddam wasn't being helpful? the oil companies/corporations are in control of the US govt.
in the WH, the House of REps, and the Senate. The oil companies which could afford a private army prefer to use our sons and daughters for free in the form of the United States army. They call it in the matter of national interest.

We are not warlike, unless we are attacked, and then we get patriotic.
the book spoken of above Col. Smedley Butler wrote of the army being
used to "calm" countries for United Fruit and other corporations as
far back as 1917 - actually google Smedley Butler and maybe his book
title up above, (you may not need the title, just his name,) and a lot
of the book is online.

Yes. We have no bananas. We now have a bunch of angry terrorists, but
it doesn't seem that we did have 1.5 billion Arabs engaged in a holy war against us before our attack on Iraq.

Do I believe our own govt would kill Americans? Did the CIA pump poison gas into the San Francisco subways? Yes. And they were caught.
We had newspapers then that used to report outrages like that. Did
the CIA experiment on citizens with LSD and watch them jump out of windows because they thought they could fly? yes. Did the Navy lie to
us that we, our ship, was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin, so we would
go to war in Viet Nam (which was for their offshore oil by the way)?
Yes. Is West Nile Virus a man made virus released on the public and the world. Yes. We came across that also when we found they had shipped West Nile Virus to Saddamm to experiment with.

And I have strong suspicions about AIDS also.

I think Zan above said that the CIA is in control of all three branches of govt. I kinda of think the CIA is a fourth branch of govt. Whatever, they are the shadow government and the people who used to run the shadow govt are now sitting in the White House, Pentagon, DOD, and State - very much out of the shadows.

there's more. If you go to thread 20 and read THEORY OF Why, you'll get a better picture of the turnstyle, manufcture armaments, sell them illegally to countries, get back in govt., say I know this country has armaments they aren't allowed to have, attack the country,
destroy it, get the contract to rebuild it, and if you're the CEO you get a big bonus..like 35 million dollars plus even better bigger stock
options whose value has risen.

So that's what's called war profiteering.

And Fascism. We, the United States of America, are in control of the multi national corpoations merged with the ship of state...that's called Fascism. Exactly what General/President Eisenhower said to watch out for.

Try this link to thead #20 by using "open in another window"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2225780

Boy, you have a lot of reading to do Kitty :) but think of how long it
took us to find it :)



Google Northwoods plan or find Plame Tip of the Iceberg Thread #20
which we also wrote...the top articles in large caps "Northwoods "
All of it is documented by articles we have tracked on the internet.

It just takes a lot of reading.

And then you might want to read American Judas on Thread 20 also, about how some elected officials of the US govt have been selling
nuclear components to "forbidden" countries on the sanctions list, by
creating offshore companies and selling supposedly from there...nevertheless it would still be a treasonous move. Halliburton under Cheney has been caught twice and so far have paid fines of about 11 million dollars which is a teardrop size fine for them.

Yup, it's pretty bad.

And now I'm going to bed.

:hi:

[Kool Kitty]

125. Northwoods I knew about, and I remember hearing an

interesting theory about West Nile virus, not a theory, really-but an idea. (This was on a Democracy Now! show, about two or three years ago.) That it came from a lab on Plum Island (a frightening little chunk of land in the Long Island Sound), which has a horrible record of carelessness regarding the disposal of (animal and bird)test subjects. (I think this is one of Hillary Clinton's main fights-trying to get it cleaned up. A book was written about the place-"Lab 257".) Much was made of having the streets of the five boroughs of NY sprayed with insecticide, not the best thing. Against all protests, Rudy went ahead with the spraying, a friend of his having gotten the contract and making a large sum on the deal. (The huge lobster die-off in the Sound was blamed on this spraying.) Maybe this isn't germane to what the thread is about, but I thought you mind find it interesting.

No wonder they want these women to keep their mouths shut.

I will read it like you suggested. Thank you and Good Night.

[Pallas180]

128. Kool Kitty - You have a lot to add to this! I didn't

know about Plum Island being right in the Long Island Sound.

Well, West Nile Virus is not a "theory" that the US manufactured it -
because we found it in official US papers as having been shipped to
Saddam along with other bio "samples".

yes it's certainly germaine that we have and have had a dirty government for a long long time.

Senator Ted Kennedy at his speech at the DNC invited dimson to a new
Boston Tea Party and I dont think he was kidding.

He has absolutely suggested if not said the word that things going on
in that White House are treason - why aren't many people listening to
him?

I think his name and John Lewis' name on the no-fly list are warnings
across the bow of Congress - "see, what we can do to you".

Following Hitler's agenda is what this administration has done...exactly to each move - and there is nothing the administration
would like better than to disband congress -

Nor would I be surprised to learn that if they cant find a way to
disband congress, they will arrest them....I think what they are
doing with the no fly list , putting Congressmen's names on it, are
the first hint.

Nope, if you think of everything else they have done, it is no exaggeration.

[Minstrel Boy]

126. I just blogged this

with a link to the thread. I'm blown away by the Azerbaijani angle. Thanks everyone whose been digging into this material.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/

[Pallas180]

129. and Thank you Minstrel Boy

going to go over to your blog and take a look.

Would you be interested in blogging American Judas and the first 10
posts below from thread 20 - Shraby started those threads and I wrote those up - not to lose them and for posterity?


AMERICAN JUDAS- SELLING THE SECURITY OF AMERICA-30 PIECES OF SILVER

HENRY KISSINGER ON HOW TO MANIPULATE AMERICANS' PANIC

SIBEL EDMONDS SPEAKS AROUND ASHCROFT GAG ORDER &
THINK TANK INVESTIGATION OF SIBEL EDMONDS' WORDS

THE GOALS OF THE NEO-CON PNAC CABAL

CHENEY,BUSH,WOLFOWITZ Letters of Un Principles

THEORY OF THE WHY-PLAME>CHENEY>HALLIBURTON >ILLEGAL WMD TRADE

DEFINITION OF CORPORATISM

US MILITARY PLAN "NORTHWOODS"- A PLAN TO ATTACK US CITIZENS

GEORGE ORWELL 1984

Quotes from the imfamous Henry Kissinger

[starroute]

130. Some interesting background on Caspian oil plans from 1999

Although the Clinton administration was more diplomatic about it, the general intentions were no different in 1999 than they are now.


http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/nov1999/oil-n30.shtml

World Socialist Web Site
Agreement signed in Istanbul on US-backed Caspian oil pipeline
30 November 1999

On November 18 and 19, representatives of 55 nations met in Istanbul, Turkey at a summit meeting of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). The United States sent a top-level delegation, including President Bill Clinton, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and National Security Adviser Samuel Berger. Clinton combined participation at the summit with a five-day state visit underscoring Washington's strategic alliance with the Turkish regime.

On the fringes of the conference Clinton presided over the signing of an agreement to take forward the construction of an oil pipeline from the Azeri capital of Baku, on the western shore of the Caspian Sea, through Georgia to the Turkish Mediterranean port of Ceyhan. The building of this oil pipeline, and a second pipeline for natural gas from Baku to Turkey, occupies a pivotal place in Washington‘s strategy to secure US dominance over Transcaucasia and Central Asia, a region believed to contain the biggest untapped reserves of oil and natural gas in the world.

<snip>

As Clinton looked on, Azeri President Haidar Alijev, Georgian President Edward Shevardnadze and Turkish President Suleyman Demirel signed pacts for the construction of the oil and gas pipelines. If outstanding questions about financing and participation of other Caspian-area countries are resolved, construction of the 1,700 kilometre oil pipeline is set to begin in 2001. The US and Turkey hope the line will be up and running by 2004. It will have a capacity of 1 million barrels per day.

<snip>

A day before the deal was signed, Clinton‘s National Security Adviser Samuel Berger explained to the media that the US government was pursuing four fundamental aims: “They include our commitment to the sovereignty and independence of the new states of the Caspian region. The second one has to do with improving the energy security of the United States. The third has to do with creating and advancing commercial opportunities for American companies and the fourth, which is probably the most important, is creating a new web of relationships that will support the economic and political independence of these states.”

[starroute]

131. And here are a few more tidbits

What I'm actually trying to do at the moment is follow up on the mentions of organized crime by Googling for any connections between Caspian oil and the Russian Mafia. But I'm finding strange and interesting stuff along the way. Here's one -- a page headed "Russia Reform Monitor: The American Foreign Policy review of Russian government actions and U.S. policy" for February 1, 2001.

http://www.afpc.org/rrm/rrm816.htm

It consists of a number of brief items. One of the items for January 30, 2001 reads:

Moscow has won its fight with U.S. Department of State for control over Caspian oil, according to the web site smi.ru, controlled by the Kremlin ideologue Gleb Pavlovsky. Since its completion in January, the new Russian Tengiz-Novorossiisk pipeline has eclipsed the Baku-Ceyhan route backed by the Clinton administration. It has also weakened the economic positions of U.S.-allied Azerbaijan and Georgia, depriving them of oil transit revenues, which have been transferred to Russia and Kazakhstan.

Put this in the context of the article from 1999 I quoted above, Bush's inauguration on January 20, 2001, and the formation of Cheney's energy task force soon after and you may have some clues as to what was going on behind the scenes.


The other item on the page which jumped out at me is from February 1, 2001 and reads:

Members of the Russian Mafia have received African diamonds in exchange for illegally supplying arms to separatists of Sierra Leone anti-government groups and the Angolan UNITA, reported the popular German Sueddeutsche Zeitung. At the center of these deals is Russian Viktor Bout, also known also Johnny Zeber. Bout is operating from the United Arab Emirates, where he resides with his father, a former KGB officer who helped his son to establish contact with the rebels, noted the newspaper.

I first ran into Viktor Bout's name while Googling stuff for one of the early Plame threads and posted then that I thought he was important, but the trail didn't seem to lead anywhere. But Africa and diamonds are intimately linked with (1) the arms trade, (2) the drug-smuggling/money-laundering business, (3) terrorism/al-Qaeda, and (4) Riggs Bank. And we're going to have to take all that into consideration eventually.

[starroute]

132. Another background piece on Caspian oil, from September 1998

http://www.salamiran.org/Magazine/BackIssues/September98/Caspian%20Resources.html

The article covers a lot of ground, but perhaps the most interesting paragraphs are these:

There are three practical and acceptable alternatives for exporting oil from the Caspian: the European (through Turkey), Middle East and Eastern corridors, each of which are subdivided. Economically, Iran is the most suitable route. If selected as the corridor, the Iranian government will become the only party in negotiations. Moreover, Iran boasts of an advanced infrastructure and skilled experts in its petroleum industry. In other words, Iranian ports in the Persian Gulf can respond to the needs of oil industry and are the closest points to developing markets in Southeast Asia.

One obstacle to this alternative is Washington, which adamantly opposes any sort of collaboration with Iran. Now Washington’s difference with Tehran seems to be strategic rather than ideological. It is not limited to the efforts to isolate Iran with the D’Amato Law, which forbids any large investment by American companies in Iran. To the same extent, Washington fears that if the line runs through the Iranian territory, oil exports from the Persian Gulf will make the world more and more energy-dependent on the turbulent Middle East. In that case, the domination of the route will create an acute dilemma for Washington, which fears to let the security of energy supply shift the balance of power between the West and the Middle East (or an Islamic Middle East in the worst scenario).

Washington looks to the future of the Persian Gulf with misgivings. The demise of the Arab-Israeli peace talks, the deadlock in Iraq and the armed resistance of Muslims in the region (the fruit of economic underdevelopment), all sound an alarm. Above all, the vulnerability of Saudi Arabia (whose collapse would endanger the U.S. ground bases in the Persian Gulf) has convinced Washington hold the Middle East bird firmly.

[starroute]

133. Drug-trafficking and organized crime in Azerbaijan

This piece is full of strange names and unfamiliar relationships, which makes it very hard to follow. But it seems likely to be of crucial importance. The paragraphs I've quoted give a general idea of the issues, but the entire piece should really be studied for the details. Adig Aliev might be particularly worthy of further investigation.

http://www.geocities.com/master8885/Government/cocaine.html

In 1995, the clans that were fighting for power in Azerbaijan diversified their activities and took drug trafficking on board. This was facilitated by the turmoil resulting from the planned construction of a pipe-line for exporting the vast oil reserves lying under the Caspian Sea and the arm-wrestling which still opposes Moscow and Ankara. Baku is still an important center for the manufacturing of synthetic drugs, while heroin trafficking networks are mutating.

<snip>

Until 1995, the Sumgait mafia, for example, controlled an important part of the Afghan opium traffic, which it brought through southern Kirghizistan, the preserve of warlord Bekmanat Osmonov. Osmonov is involved in narcotics and arms trafficking in the region. He supplies military equipment, for the most part to members of the opposition in Tajikistan, in exchange for opium from Afghanistan, which he then delivers to Azerbaijan. The opium is transformed into heroin at Sumgait, before being taken on to Turkey by members of the Azeri Grey Wolves. This group, led by Alexander Guamidov, is a carbon copy of the extreme right-wing Turkish group of the same name.

Simply because all the factions in presence are involved in drug trafficking in one way or another, the changes in the balance of power between the Azeri clans which traditionally have acted as predators of the wealth generated by oil and influenced how the oil sector was developed, also mean changes in the Caucasian drug networks. Nowadays, the man at the top in Baku is no other than Adig Aliev, a businessman linked to British and American oil companies and the son of Azerbaijan's president. The Grey Wolves have understood the implications of the victory of the Aliev clan in Baku and now work with the Nakhichevan mafia. Thus, heroin is about to radically alter the political alliances among mafia groups throughout the Caucasus, be it in Armenia, Georgia, or Azerbaijan. And state authorities in the region are using narcotics as a diplomatic weapon. For Russian authorities, Azerbaijan is becoming the second nest for criminal activities, after Chechnya, leading some to suggest that the Aliev regime could be a target for liquidation by Moscow. It seems that Russia considers that the Aliev clan was too greedy in negotiations on Caspian oil production.

<snip>

The Aliev clan's only remaining allies are the Grey Wolves, who are pushing the clan towards a rapprochement with Turkey, and the refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh, known as eraz. The eraz, driven from their homes in their thousands, and with little hope of returning, live in extremely precarious conditions under tents and in abandoned freight wagons around Baku. Discriminated against by the people of Baku, the eraz camps, like those of Georgian refugees from Abkhazia, have become fertile ground for criminal activity and provide a steady supply of government-manipulated henchmen. The government has led the eraz to believe that the lands held on the Russian border by anti-Aliev clans, and currently inhabited by Lesghians from Daghestan, who are considered a threat to Azerbaidjan, could be handed over to the eraz. The Nakhichevan clan and the Aliev regime, between which it is sometimes hard to make a distinction, owe a debt to the Grey Wolves and to the eraz. They therefore turn a blind eye to their illegal activities, in particular narcotics trafficking, all the more so since these activities provide a remedy to the extreme poverty which could fuel more problems for Aliev and his allies. In Azerbaijan, heroin is for some, like the Nakhichevan mafia, a source of profits; for others, like the Grey Wolves, a source of financing and a means of establishing political power; and for others, the eraz, it is a strategy for survival. Moscow benefits from the situation.

[Pallas180]

136. Thanks Starroute, now this is interesting :

"In 1995, the clans that were fighting for power in Azerbaijan diversified their activities and took drug trafficking on board. This was facilitated by the turmoil resulting from the planned construction of a pipe-line for exporting the vast oil reserves lying under the Caspian Sea and the arm-wrestling which still opposes Moscow and Ankara. Baku is still an important center for the manufacturing of synthetic drugs, while heroin trafficking networks are mutating."


Is that legal or illegal drugs being manufactured in Baku?

And we have something about Baku to do with the oil companies upthread don't we?

hmmmm, is Baku important also - and I wonder what language they speak?


we

[starroute]

139. Baku is the capital of Azerbaijan

http://www.baku.com

"The capital of Azerbaijan, Baku is located on the western shore of the Caspian Sea and is one of Azerbaijan's largest cities. The center of Baku is the old town, which is also a fortress. Most of the walls, strengthened afterthe Russian conquest in 1806, survive. This section is picturesque, with its maze of narrow alleys and ancient buildings. Part of a palace, a mosque, and a minaret date from the 11th century. Modern Baku spreads out from the walls, its streets and buildings rising up hills that rim the Bay of Baku. Greater Baku is divided into 11 districts and 48 townships. Among these are townships on islands in the bay and one island built on stilts in the Caspian Sea, 60 miles (100 kilometers) from Baku proper."

Sounds charming, doesn't it? :-)


On edit: Synthetic drugs in this context seems to refer mainly to amphetamines -- possibly also Ecstasy.

[starroute]

140. The Baku Accord of 1997

The Baku Accord on Regional Cooperation against Illicit Cultivation, Production, Trafficking, Distribution and Consumption of Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances and Their Precursors was a United Nations resolution in 1997.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/resolution_1997-07-21_3.html

A. Nature and extent of the problem

1. The Subcommission on Illicit Drug Traffic and Related Matters in the Near and Middle East opened its thirty-second session at Baku on 17 February 1997 with an expanded membership, better representing the diverse character of the region as a whole and of its subregions, and affording greater possibilities for more in-depth discussion of the illicit drug- trafficking situation and its impact on the region, and of new cooperative modalities for effective counteraction. The new composition of the Subcommission is indicative of global developments in illicit drug-trafficking, which are reflected in conditions in some States in the Near and Middle East.

2. The expanding and complex system of global organized drug crime, involving cultivation, production, trafficking, distribution and consumption activities, which penetrate various sectors, has already left its mark on the region. Associated criminal activities, especially narcotics-related terrorism and the arms trade, have assumed alarming proportions in spite of law enforcement efforts.

3. The consequences of illicit drug-trafficking in the Near and Middle East are a mirror image of developments at the global level, characterized by the erosion of the hard-won benefits of development, the diversion of some countries from their developmental path, the destabilization of the socio-economic order, the destruction of the moral and social fabric of society and the undermining of the quality of life of the peoples of the region.

[Pallas180]

143. Thanks again, Starroute - I notice

an island 60 miles out in the Caspian Sea - therfore they claim
at least a minimum of that much sea as theirs, as that much oil.

Now we know why the Baker-Cheney Chamber of Commerce is there.


would have answered sooner but my computer keeps going onto

"work offline" and durn it - you can't get it "on" again

without a rigamarole.







ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Zan_of_Texas]

145. Baku is the capital of Azerbaijan

Quoting:

The capital of Azerbaijan, Baku is located on the western shore of the Caspian Sea and is one of Azerbaijan's largest cities. (Oops StarRoute beat to this -- but here's a bit more.) Modern Baku spreads out from the walls, its streets and buildings rising up hills that rim the Bay of Baku. ... Baku is a major cultural and educational center, with a university and other institutions of higher education. One of these specializes in the petroleum and chemical industries. The basis of Baku's economy is petroleum. The existence of petroleum has been known since the 8th century. By the 15th century oil for lamps was obtained from surface wells. Commercial exploitation began in 1872, and by the beginning of the 20th century the Baku oil field was the largest in the world. Toward the end of the 20th century much of the land's petroleum had been exhausted, and drilling had extended into the sea. Baku ranks as one of the largest centers for the production of oil-industry equipment

...Baku is today considered a birthplace of the modern oil industry. Baku attracted investors and oil developers from all over the world, among them Alfred Nobel and his brothers. In fact, the fortune that Alfred Nobel acquired through his work in Baku's emerging oil industry allowed him to establish the Nobel Prize.

-- from a Baku site in English prepared by IntePromo, Sag Harbor, NY http://www.baku.com/





Here's a DOE report

Caspian Sea Region

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/caspian.html

The Caspian Sea region, including the Sea and the states surrounding it, is important to world energy markets because of its potential to become a major oil and natural gas exporter over the next decade. However, this potential has been complicated by several factors, including a lack of adequate export infrastructure, disagreement over new export routes, and border disputes between the littoral states. Note: Information contained in this report is the best available as of August 2003 and is subject to change.

GENERAL BACKGROUND
The Caspian Sea has become a landmark for the former Soviet South’s untapped oil and natural gas potential. Herein, the Caspian Sea Region is defined to include the Sea's littoral states of Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Turkmenistan, as well as parts of Russia and Iran and also Uzbekistan --which although not a littoral state, is the region's largest natural gas producer. The oil and gas potential of these states is sizeable. Proven oil and natural gas reserves have been estimated at up to 3% and 4% of the world total, respectively, and analysts expect that by 2010 regional oil production will meet or exceed 2002 capacity in Venezuela, South America's largest oil producer.

At the moment, however, the countries of the Caspian Sea region are relatively minor world oil and gas producers, struggling with difficult economic and political transitions. Following the break-up of the Soviet Union, the countries’ economies languished as regional trade collapsed. And while, the region has enjoyed overall economic growth since the latter half of the 1990s, gross domestic product (GDP), remains below 1992 levels in Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Turkmenistan (when measured in constant $1995 dollars). Uzbekistan, however, has shown some growth. Moreover, in the region’s two biggest oil producers, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, 49% and 26% of the populations, respectively, were estimated to be living below the poverty line in 2001. Improving these conditions depends, in large part, on the successful development of the region's oil and natural gas potential.

Although there is still no overarching agreement between the five Caspian littoral states on division of the Sea's resources, three states have come to a trilateral agreement on sub-surface boundaries and collective administration of the sea's waters. In May 2003, Russia, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan divided the northern 64% of the Caspian Sea into three unequal parts along a median line principle, giving Kazakhstan 27%, Russia 19%, and Azerbaijan 18%. Accordingly, development of the northern Caspian Sea's hydrocarbon potential, where most of the region's oil reserves and largest international projects are found, will likely move forward despite the lack of a comprehensive regional consensus. Meanwhile, offshore development in Turkmenistan and Iran, which were present at these negotiations but refused to sign on, could fall even further behind.

Estimates of the Caspian Sea Region's proved crude oil reserves vary widely by source. For this reason, we have estimated proven oil reserves as a range between 17 and 33 billion barrels, which is comparable to OPEC member Qatar on the low end, and the United States on the high end. In 2002, regional oil production reached roughly 1.6 million barrels per day, comparable to annual production from South America's second largest oil producer, Brazil. By 2010, the countries of the Caspian Sea Region are forecast to produce between 3 and 4.7 million barrels per day, which exceeds annual production from South America's largest oil producer, Venezuela.

[starroute]

142. Azerbaijan and International Terrorist Networks

This is from an Armenian source, so perhaps it should be taken with a grain of salt. However, it seems worth throwing into the mix. Could Azerbaijan be yet another country where US oil interests are ignoring terrorism in order to curry favor with the local government?

The article is dated September 2001 and was apparently written pre-September 11.

http://www.cilicia.com/Azeriterrorism.htm

According to the Associated Press, the Congressional Research Services (CRS, 9/10/2001) issued a report noting that individuals and groups affiliated with the international terrorist Osama Bin Laden and his AI Qaeda organization used Azerbaijan as one of the bases in its elaborate terrorist network. Some reports suggest that various radical Islamist groups had operated in Azerbaijan even before its 1991 independence. However, the real increase in their presence took place after the 1993 military coup, when the government of Heydar Aliyev approved a large-scale deployment of mujahedin fighters from Afghanistan and other countries to join in the fighting against the Armenians of Nagorno Karabakh.

<snip>

In the summer of 1993, Azerbaijan’s President Heydar Aliyev hired over 1,000 Islamist mercenaries in the war against Nagorno Karabakh Armenians. They were flown on civilian aircraft from Afghanistan to Azerbaijan. The mercenaries, including Arab veterans of the Afghan war (1979-89), took an active role in the Karabakh conflict (Moscow News 9/13/00). One of Bin Laden’s associate claimed that Bin Laden himself led mujahedin in at least two battles in Nagorno Karabakh. (Associated Press 11/14/99).

Following the armistice that took hold in Nagorno Karabakh in May 1994, most of the mujahedin left Azerbaijan to fight in other hot spots, such as the North Caucasus and Balkans. Others, however, remained to establish what was soon described by Yossef Bodansky, Director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare of the US House of Representatives, as "the new hub" for Islamist radicals that involved a network of training camps, mosques, charitable organizations and underground cells. Ibrahim Eidarous, later arrested in Europe by the FBI for his role in the 1998 embassy bombings, headed the Azerbaijani branch of AI Qaeda between 1995 and 1997. In 1997, radical Islamist groups with branches in Azerbaijan reportedly pledged their support for President Heydar Aliyev against Armenians, in exchange for a safe haven in Azerbaijan (Strategic Policy 10/99; Ekho 9/1/01).

<snip>

Azerbaijan, nevertheless, continues being an attractive destination for the international terrorist networks, particularly those based in Afghanistan. In late 2000, head of the UNHCR mission in Azerbaijan Didier Laye noted that most asylum-seekers that arrive in Azerbaijan come from Afghanistan. Azerbaijan is an odd destination for these arrivals, as Azerbaijan and Afghanistan have no direct borders, are not ethnically related. In the Azeri capital, mosques influenced by Islamist radicals attract a large following. That following reportedly includes even some senior members of President Aliyev's staff. Most recently, the local media speculated that should Bin Laden be forced to flee Afghanistan, he may appear in Azerbaijan. Over the years, Bin Laden's sympathizers have moved out of Azerbaijan's capital, Baku, to establish camps in rural areas of the country, particularly in the remote mountainous areas in the largely Sunni Muslim north of the country (Strategic Policy 10/99; Turan 11/21100; Ekho 5/2/01).

[Pallas180]

144. Starroute - you dont' know it, but you're doing one BINGO after another.

Isn't that odd.


OBL and the entire power house of the shadow American government
all converge in Azerbaijan.












ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[starroute]

150. The one thing that isn't clear is where the Grey Wolves fit in

They're mentioned in that article on drug trafficking in Azerbaijan. They seem to be nothing other than old-fashioned fascists. During World War II, large groups from the Moslem population of the Soviet Union fought with Hitler's armies as a way of opposing Stalin, and apparently some of them have never forgotten.

They may just be a side issue, but one interesting thing is that they espouse pan-Turkish nationalism, and certain US interests might see that as a useful counterweight to both pan-Arab nationalism (which is the ideology of the Baathists) and Moslem fundamentalism.

There are only a couple of things that scare me more than the current bunch of loonies who are trying to run our world, and one of them is the possibility of a resurgence of full-bore fascism. I think it's worth keeping an eye on the Grey Wolves.

[Pallas180]

151. Starroute - not to

be facetious.


"There are only a couple of things that scare me more than the current bunch of loonies who are trying to run our world, and one of them is the possibility of a resurgence of full-bore fascism. I think it's worth keeping an eye on the Grey Wolves."

but we are in full blown fascism. Or Nazism if you prefer.

When ss or FBI go to protestors houses and ask them what they intend
to do in protest,

when if you do protest and they get a picture of you and put you on a
no fly list -

when the streets are filled with humvees,armed to the eyes cops in riot gear (storm troopers) pens and barbed wire, and 20,000 "troops" as I saw in Savannah. . . we've arrived.

[shraby]

152. Didja google Gray Wolves?

[Pallas180]

153. Hi Shraby. Starroute has quite a bit on grey wolves in her

posted articles.

but would you want to start another thread now?

GOSS MEANS LOSS FOR USA

OR GOSS, TIP OF THE ICEBERG

I'd rather you title it - cause if I do you know every miscreant
will show up..

hmmm?

We have THE answer here and I've written a recap of the whole thing
that answers it...I just thought I'd wait til Rob comes back.

or I could post it on the bottom,

which do you want ?

[starroute]

159. The Turkish Grey Wolves -- some introductory material

Report about Turkish Fascism - The "Grey Wolves"
http://users.westnet.gr/~cgian/turkish_fascism.htm

For understanding what the MHP means, it is necessary to look at the political ideas of the MHP. Their ideology is called Turanism. The adherents of this ideology see "their own people" (just like the Nazis), the Turkish people as a superior race. "The whole world" belongs "to them". They dream of world domination. The MHP-fascists want a "Greater Turkey", just like the Nazis wanted a "Greater
German Empire". In concrete this means they want to subject all people and countries, from the Caucasus until the Balkan and from the Balkan until Middle Asia to their slavery and put them under Turkish rule. Their active support and propagandistic contributions for the fascist and racist Turkish state is best proof for this.

Their ideology does not allow any national rights to the Kurds, Armenians, Laz, Arabs, Syrians, etc. who live in Turkey (speaking freely in there native tongue, learning this language or publishing in it, etc.). The MHP does not even recognize these peoples and threatens to "cleans" society from non-Turkish "elements" and it tries to put this threat into practice. A slogan, used by the MHP, runs: "Either you become Turks and become proud to be a Turk, or you'll have to reckon with your extermination."

<snip>

The slogan from the MHP-banner: "One Turkish world, from the Adrian Sea until the Chinese Wall" is also constantly used by the government parties and other parties in conformity with the system. Lies like "keeping together and being together", as well as racist and chauvinist slogans like "PKK: descendants of the Armenians" and "In the East and the West, Turkey is everywhere and indivisible" are nowadays used daily by the Turkish state.

The site also talks about massacres of workers and students going back to the 1970's and intimidation of pro-democratic Turks and Kurds in Europe.


Fascist Grey Wolves in the Netherlands
http://www.xs4all.nl/~afa/alert/engels/greyw.html

On 5 January, the deputy prime minister of Turkey, Devlet Bahceli, visited the Netherlands at the invitation of the Turkish Federation of Holland (TFN), the fascist Grey Wolves' main front organisation in the country. Bahceli, who is also chairman and boss of the Grey Wolves' parent organisation, the Party of Nationalist Action (MHP), addressed 4,000 enthusiastic TFN supporters at a big concert hall in Den Bosch. In his entourage were MHP big shots from Turkey, the Turkish ambassador to the Netherlands and the two consuls there.

<snip>

Little thought, it appears was given to the well established fact that the Grey Wolves in Turkey (and elsewhere) are a byword for racism, terror, torture, disappearances, kidnappings, mass-murder. The pan-Turkish ideology which underpins all their violence dreams of a Turkey stretching from Vienna to the Wall of China.

<snip>

The list of racist and other crimes committed by this mob is very long. For example, they have attacked anti-racist demonstrations, severely wounded members of an Amnesty International picket and stabbed a Turkish hunger striker to death in Rotterdam. They are also deeply involved in mafia-like activities including drug trafficking, weapons smuggling, extortion from Turkish entrepreneurs and contract killing.


On the Trail of Turkey's Terrorist Grey Wolves (29 Sep 1998)
http://www.ozgurluk.org/mhp/story33.html

For several months, Turkey had been awash in dramatic disclosures connecting high Turkish officials to the right-wing Grey Wolves, the terrorist band which has preyed on the region for years. In 1981, a terrorist from the Grey Wolves attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II in Vatican City.

<snip>

The rupture of state secrets in Turkey also could release clues to other major Cold War mysteries. Besides the attempted papal assassination, the Turkish disclosures could shed light on the collapse of the Vatican bank in 1982 and the operation of a clandestine pipeline that pumped sophisticated military hardware into the Middle East -- apparently from NATO stockpiles in Europe -- in exchange for heroin sold by the Mafia in the United States.

The official Turkish inquiry was triggered by what could have been the opening scene of a spy novel: a dramatic car crash on a remote highway near the village of Susurluk, 100 miles southwest of Istanbul. On Nov. 3, 1996, three people were crushed to death when their speeding black Mercedes hit a tractor and overturned. The crash killed Husseyin Kocadag, a top police official who commanded Turkish counter-insurgency units.

But it was Kocadag's company that stunned the nation. The two other dead were Abdullah Catli, a convicted fugitive who was wanted for drug trafficking and murder, and Catli's girlfriend, Gonca Us, a Turkish beauty queen turned mafia hit-woman. A fourth occupant, who survived the crash, was Kurdish warlord Sedat Bucak, whose militia had been armed and financed by the Turkish government to fight Kurdish separatists.

In other words, these guys are linked to the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II in 1981, the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano in 1982, and CIA-connected arms-for-drugs trading in Bulgaria. And they're still at it. Sound like a fun bunch.

[Pallas180]

161. this has been one of the fastest learning curves ever

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[starroute]

162. US involvement in bringing Afghan terrorists to fight the Armenians

http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?id=42
http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?part=1&id=42
(The quote is from page 2 of the article, with the second URL)

Following the defeats suffered by the Azerbaijani army at the Karabakh frontline in mid 1993, Baku turned to the Afghan authorities for the supply of Mujaheddins to fight against the Armenian self-defence force of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Demoyan refers to a report by American journalist Thomas Golz, while describing how US citizens, who were involved in the Iran-Contra affair whilst serving in the US Special Forces, brought mujaheddins to Azerbaijan while also training Azeri pilots in Texas for this mission.

Nevertheless, the enthusiasm of the Americans faded away when a possible Azerbaijani connection was discovered in the attacks on the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania far before September 11. After those attacks the FBI traced about 60 phone calls made from the satellite phone used by bin Laden to his Islamic Jihad associates in Baku, and from there to partners in Africa.

[starroute]

163. Something weird linking Azerbaijan and Iran-Contra

I don't know what to make of this one at all . . .

http://www.qsl.net/yb0rmi/vosa.htm

Voice of Southern Azerbaijan
March 1, 1998

The Voice of Southern Azerbaijan (VOSA), active since 1996 with broadcasts against Iran from an undisclosed transmitting location, is quickly becoming an intriguing story. A story that not only includes oil and politics, but also espionage, the Mossad, and players from the Iran-Contra scandal of the 1980's. When it was first heard, radio monitors assumed that it was broadcasting from Turkmenistan, however, an Israeli connection slowly came to light as more people tuned in. According to monitor Nikolai Pashkevich in Russia, "when I tuned in my receiver to this channel I found an open carrier with 'Reshet Bet'... on the background and then VOSA signing on" (CDX 180). Rashet Bet is, of course, a news service of Israel Radio.

<snip>

According to Wolfgang Bueschel in BCDX 351, "Mr. Vafa Culuzadeh, adviser of former Azerbaijan President Ebulfez Elicibey, told the Italian press agency IPS in October 1992 from Baku, that the Israelian secret service specialist David Kimche and... Richard Secord, who was involved in the Iran-Contra-Affair, visited Azerbaijan, (and) presented a delegation of more Israelian secret service personnel. Mr. Culuzadeh took part on a return visit to Israel, (and) lead a delegation of Azerbaijan/Uzbek/Kazakh secret services"

<snip>

David Kimche is a 30-year veteran of the Mossad and was an important force behind the Reagan administration's arms-for hostages swap with Iran and its secret aid to the Nicaraguan rebels (coined Iran-Contra.) In fact, it was Kimche who helped to organize the Contras, who supplied them with Israeli military advisers, who sold the US government Palestinian weapons Israel had seized in 1982, and who claimed he could get access to the hostage-takers in Lebanon.

<snip>

Retired Air Force Major General Richard Secord was also a key player during the Iran-Contra scandal. He earned his wings while flying for "Air America," the CIA covert paramilitary operation in Laos that supplied local Hmong tribes with arms and training to counter the Communist Laotian regime. He wrote a memoir, "Honored and Betrayed: Irangate, Covert Affairs, and the Secret War in Laos," in 1992 to detail his involvement with the CIA and service to the American government. He was one of the Iran-Contra players who set up the "Enterprise," the company outside of the CIA that earned money and lined the pockets for those involved.

[starroute]

166. David Kimche

http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/chris.holt/home.informal/bar/corsair.afdq/contra.cards/27.html

In February 1982, Kimche and National Security Advisor Robert McFarlane arrived at a secret plan for Israeli participation in U.S. covert actions in Central America. ... The Reagan Administration agreed to this proposal, and the Pentagon assigned Richard Secord to oversee the weapons shipments.

Shortly after being visited by the NSC's Michael Ledeen in May 1985, Kimche began to promote Manucher Ghorbanifar's credentials to American officials. ...

The "Iran initiative" arms-for-hostages plan failed, but Israel continued to supply weapons to the contras through 1986. One arms network was run by a former Mossad agent maned Mike Harare, a close associate of Panama's drug-dealing General Manuel Noriega. While supplying East-Bloc arms to the contras, Harare was also shipping Medellin Cartel cocaine out of Panama.

So let's count on our fingers here. We have:

- Richard Secord. Secord was part of the "secret war" in Laos, which had extensive involvement in opium smuggling. He was part of a private deal to ship arms to Egypt in the 1970's, a conflict of interest which forced him to resign from the miliatry. And then he was a central figure in Iran-Contra, where he may also have been involved in drug and arms trading. (See my post on the Porter Goss thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2247183#2247952)

- Michael Ledeen. Neocon, pal of Italian fascists, and general bad apple. He and Manuchar Ghorbanifar were recently suggested as possible sources of the fake Niger uranium documents. (See the thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2128960#2132332)

- Mike Harare. I've seen his name around but don't know the details. More drug-smuggling, for one thing.


A sort of three-tier pattern to all this is becoming very clear. On top, you have the "respectable" people like the members of the Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce, who make their money off high-profile operations like oil development. In the middle, you have people like Secord, covert operators with a weakness for making private profits on the side, often through some combination of arms-dealing and drug-smuggling. And down at the bottom, you have the locals, the freelancers, the mafiosi, the corrupt politicans, and so forth.

The whole thing is integrated, but there's a lot of plausible deniability built in, which insulates the people at the top from the side-deals of those in the middle and the overt criminality of those at the bottom. The pattern began in the early 60's with those old associates of Porter Goss who were in the anti-Castro business, was fine-tuned in Vietnam, and went mainstream in the 80's. And we've been left to deal with the global breakdown of order and morality that results.

[starroute]

167. Kimche and the Kurds

http://home.cogeco.ca/~kurdistan/4-8-04-opinion-kurds-not-collaborating-israel.html

The history of Kurdish-Israeli contacts is well documented. It was Israel's Middle East man, the former Mossad official David Kimche, who established direct contacts with the Kurdish leadership back in the mid-1960s. In 1997, the London-based Al-Hayat published my interview with Kimche in which he explained that, when the contacts were made, Israel's then Prime Minister Levi Eshkol had taken a "strategic decision" to establish relations with ethnic minorities in the Arab world. Kimche met with then Kurdish leader Mustafa Barzani, and shortly afterwards Israel began delivering aid to the Kurds.

[starroute]

168. Kimche, Ghorbanifar, Secord, and Iran-Contra

http://nsarchive.chadwyck.com/icessayx.htm

Even during the hostage crisis in Tehran, Israel—later the United States’ partner through much of the Iran initiative—began to strike weapons deals of its own with Iran. Tel Aviv, like Washington, had a long history of selling arms to the Shah, which Tehran’s revolutionary government was willing to exploit secretly, despite its public animosity toward the state of Israel. Reportedly, the United States knew about Israeli transactions during the early 1980s but turned a blind eye. News accounts alleged later that President Reagan’s first secretary of state, Alexander Haig, gave Tel Aviv an "amber light," acquiescing in the weapons transfers without officially approving them. One report stated that Haig gave permission to Israel to sell U.S.-made military spare parts for fighter planes to Iran in early 1981 after discussions between his counselor at the State Department, Robert McFarlane, and Israeli Foreign Ministry official David Kimche. An Israeli account of the U.S.-backed weapons sales of 1985-1986 reports that Israeli Defense Minister Ariel Sharon proposed as early as 1982 that Washington consider an opening to factions in Iran using limited military sales as a vehicle. The White House apparently declined the suggestion but four years later would be more receptive to a similar proposal brought to McFarlane, then national security advisor, by his long-time counterpart, Kimche.

In the spring of 1985, Adolph Schwimmer and Yaacov Nimrodi, two Israelis with close ties to Prime Minister Shimon Peres, were in the midst of cutting their own apparently private deal to sell mortars and other equipment to Tehran when their intermediary, Manucher Ghorbanifar, told them that the Iranian government wanted U.S.-made TOW and other missiles instead. The Israelis knew that the United States would have to be brought on board before a deal involving such sophisticated arms could go forward, even if the weapons came from Israeli stocks. They also were aware that in 1983 the secretary of state had declared Iran a sponsor of international terrorism, which had led the United States in 1984 to impose further restrictions on exports to Iran. But the Israelis did not realize that other top U.S. officials had already laid the groundwork for a stunning policy shift toward Iran. In June 1985, at McFarlane’s direction, NSC staff members produced a draft National Security Decision Directive which expressed the concern of some in the U.S. government that Soviet influence in Iran was on the rise. As a way to correct this perceived imbalance, the draft authorized a policy of encouraging limited Western arms sales to Tehran. Nimrodi’s and Schwimmer’s efforts would bear fruit sooner than expected.

While Israel and the United States were already beginning to move in the same direction on Iran, officials from both countries had long since joined paths in Central America. According to stipulated facts from the Oliver North trial, as early as May 1983, Washington and Tel Aviv worked out an arrangement for the Defense Department to buy Soviet bloc weapons, captured from the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in Lebanon, on behalf of the CIA. Known as Operation Tipped Kettle, the plan was negotiated by Maj. Gen. Richard Secord (recently retired from the Air Force) and Israeli Gen. Menachem Meron. The following year, a similar deal was struck, this time resulting in many of the arms being transferred to the Contras.

[Pallas180]

170. Starroute - This would belong on

the old High Crimes & Misdemeanors-Tip of the Iceberg thread

where we tracked the weapons sales of companies like Halliburton/Cheney and ABB/Rumsfeld...

If you want to start another thread like that and move this info there
we can keep that going...

But our government has been rogue for a long long time...who knows now
if it has ever not been in the past century --

I'm finding things on Rockefellers , Carnegie and Hitler in business
together as well as Bush Harriman.

And the sedition there was the Silesian steel company - Bush - making
steel for the german weapons to kill American soldiers .

I'm curious about why the Dulles brothers cleaned everything up for
the "elite" - they were lawyers - but why help in the treason?

And of course they became the CIA and have been responsible for filling the CIA with fascists secretly brought over from Germany.

I'd like to know why there were such Nazi sympathizers...anyway there's another thread on GD I started about Rockefeller, Carnegie...
and I didnt expect it to lead back to this...but it's all part of
the same corruption that grew and grew and grew...like the blob movie that sucks up all .

It's depressing. The more I learn, the more depressing it gets.

[starroute]

173. You can't separate this stuff out

That's why I keep emphasizing that focusing exclusively on the power elite is misleading. They may have been the whole show back before about 1960, but now they're just the icing on the cake. The real action in places like Azerbaijan is being carried on by the agents, the mercenaries, the gangsters, and the dirty politicians. The only role of the elite seems to be skimming off the profits and maintaining the cover-up of their own involvement. Looking at the Rockefellers and Carnegies is not going to get you anywhere as far as understanding what is going on in the world today.

However, since you ask about the Dulles brothers, they were totally complicit themselves.

Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg once stated that "The Dulles brothers were traitors." Some historians believe that Allen Dulles became head of the newly formed CIA in large part to cover up his treasonous behavior and that of his clients. Not confined to a few isolated companies, some of America's most prominent families and their financial empires worked with the Nazis well after the first bombs were dropped on Pearl Harbor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/04/p/05_killing.html


Angleton told author Joseph Trento that the reason he had gotten the counterintelligence job in the first place was by agreeing not to submit “sixty of Allen Dulles’ closest friends” to a polygraph test concerning their business deals with the Nazis. In his end-of-life despair, Angleton assumed that he would see all his old companions again “in hell.”

http://www.williambowles.info/spysrus/bush-fascism.html


And going a little further back in time:

The institutionalization of the military industrial complex and the national security state, with which corporate America would meld, developed during World War II and its aftermath. The DuPonts, as well as other industrialists, implicated in the attempted coup against FDR played a major role in these developments.

The Nye Committee Hearings to investigate the munitions industry were finally held in 1935. Committee findings revealed that the DuPonts were heavily invested in fascist Italy, and had played a major role in the rearming of Germany. According to the Versailles Treaty, which ended WWI, it was illegal to sell arms to Germany, but the DuPonts lobbied State Department delegates to the Paris Peace Conference. They finally obtained assurance from one of the delegates that their business with Germany would be "winked at." That delegate was Wall Street lawyer Allen Dulles. In addition, the Wall Street lawyer who represented the DuPonts at the hearings was William Donovan, who went on to head the Office of Strategic Services (the OSS was the forerunner of the CIA) during WWII.

In spite of the DuPonts’ illegal dealings, no prosecutions were forthcoming as a result of the Nye committee either. The DuPont family interests represented the largest holdings in the military industrial complex. DuPont built and operated the plant for the Manhattan project. They built all the facilities for atomic bomb production including the facility at Oak Ridge Tennessee. DuPont technicians and engineers ran the show; and by the Sixties the DuPonts effectively had control of the whole atomic energy industry.

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html

[Pallas180]

177. " Looking at Rockefellers Carnegies is not going to get you anywhere"

Actually, it is David Rockefeller's plan that IS being followed.
And he was tutoted by Nazis and Kissinger and Zbrinski.

The plan is for world domination by the wealthy, who they believe to more suitable than the average wage earner..never mind that they inherited their wealth and didnt earn it.

The small fry are just that - small fry.

The pappy family and cheney's and bakers connected to the Saudi's are the big fry with the power to create world war 3 , and 4 if we last that long. They are the ones turning the world and this country into
fascist countries.

We have found our answer to sibel's puzzle.

And more or less have stopped seeking on that part. The oil and Azberjain and the chamber of commerce is the answer.

We are writing a paper on it.

Anything else on the small fry is not necessary for the paper...although the Wolves was disgusting .

And Shraby wonders if stupid was giving the wolves sign.

Do you have any opinion on that?

I invite you again Starroute to begin a separate thread for the extra
information surrounding this...and we'll come over. Just tell us
the name of the thread.

But we're more or less through with Sibel searching...and we are working on Goss. ...gee , what happened to Goss thread?

[starroute]

134. More on the geopolitics of pipelines

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/q7.html

The Taliban's rise to power in Afghanistan can be linked to the same "single, golden theme" which Michael Griffin (Reaping the Whirlwind, 115) has discerned in the conflicts in Nagorno-Karabakh, Abkhazia, Turkish Kurdistan and Chechnya: "each represented a distinct, tactical move, crucial at the time, in discerning which power would ultimately become master of the pipelines which, some time in this century, will transport the oil and gas from the Caspian basin to an energy-avid world."

Long-time observer William Beeman claimed in 1998 that the desire to build an Afghan pipeline before an Iranian one could be built motivated the US in the 1990s to back the Taliban against its domestic opponents, the Iran-backed Northern Alliance. As he wrote in an important article for Pacific News Service "From the U.S. standpoint, the way to deny Iran everything is for the anti-Iranian Taliban to win in Afghanistan and agree to the pipeline through their territory. The Pakistanis would also benefit from this arrangement -- which is why they are willing to defy the Iranians." And Iran at the the time was anathema to the US, not just because it supported Shi'ite terrorists, but because it supported Russian plans for continuing to dominate Central Asian oil.

<snip>

At the time Iran, acutely concerned for the future of its Shia allies in Afghanistan, charged that the money for the Taliban was coming from Saudi petrodollars and the CIA (Griffin, Reaping the Whirlwind, 78; Rashid, Taliban, 166). Unquestionably, after a visit by Prince Turki to Islamabad and Kandahar, the Saudis funded and equipped the Taliban march on Kabul (Rashid, 201). After the capture of Kabul, the London Guardian speculated about CIA support, noting that Republican Senator Hank Brown had invited two senior Taliban leaders to a Washington conference with members of Congress in May. But observers like Michael Griffin have found no evidence of CIA funding. The overt US policy aim at this time was for order and stability in Afghanistan, and in May 1996 Assistant Secretary of State Robin Raphel publicly doubted that the Taliban was cohesive enough to capture Kabul (Griffin, 82).

The respected French observer Olivier Roy has charged instead that "When the Taleban took power in Afghanistan (1996), it was largely orchestrated by the Pakistani secret service and the oil company Unocal, with its Saudi ally Delta " (Olivier Roy, quoted in Richard Labeviere, Dollars for Terror, 280). Unocal executive John Maresco testified on 2/12/98 to the House Committee on International Relations on the benefits of a proposed Afghan oil pipeline to the Central Asian countries, to Afghanistan, and to Asian importers of crude such as Japan.

[starroute]

135. Failed States and Contraband Capitalism

This piece from 1999 seems like a good one -- a lot of insight into the strange nexus between government breakdown, corporate freewheeling, and organized crime that characterizes the events we are trying to define. (It's also absolutely terrifying in its implications of what we are up against.)

http://www.majbill.vt.edu/geog/faculty/toal/papers/Hawaii.htm

Beyond the promise of budget surpluses, sustained growth, and geopolitical primacy for the United States at century’s end, much of the world map, as it has been drawn by industrial modernization over the past 250 years, is fraying. The world political map conveniently was organized during the Cold War into first, second and third world zones. Now it is filled with zones which defy easy characterization. An increasing number of chaotic places -- Afghanistan, Belerus, Somalia, Chechnya, East Timor, the Congo, Serbia, Sierra Leone -- seem to be dissolving as sovereign governed spaces, devolving back into ungovernable external areas beyond the organized reach of the modern world system. <1> These wild zones are places where life is nasty, brutish and short. In reevaluating the current and future condition of the world political map, the crucial dialectics between politics and economics, states and markets, legality and criminality in various regions of the globe must be considered. Many conceptual constructs have been invented to describe the sometimes weird (con)fusion of states and markets in the post-Cold War world, including "failed states," "predatory states," and "criminal states," or, ‘kapitalizm,’ ‘turbo-charged capitalism,’ and ‘contraband capitalism’ <2>.

<snip>

The peace and prosperity brought by stable legal exchange are fairly scarce public goods outside of the core OECD states. In the conflict and poverty that wrack the non-OECD countries, new clusters of illegal commerce have become rooted deeply in many destitute economies and societies. After expanding markedly in the 1990s, an illicit global economy of criminalized transnational economic activities is estimated to turn over a global "gross criminal product" of nearly $1 trillion <9>. This global black market economy embraces the narcocapitalist trade of Latin America and South Asia, which has corrupted regimes as diverse as Afghanistan, Thailand, Mryanmar, Bolivia, Colombia and Mexico. It also includes the collapsed demodernizing states of the former Soviet Union, where the new "comrade criminals"<10> are organizing a capitalist economy around vicious mafiya racketeering, and the red capitalist frontier provinces of China, where vast smuggling networks in Guangdong, Guangxi, and many other areas move billions of dollars in illicit commodity trades as well as bootleg movies, pirated software, counterfeit consumer goods, and undocumented human labor.

<snip>

The froth of contemporary neoliberal rhetoric bathes the present in a triumphalist aura of universal prosperity that it does not deserve. One result is that far too little attention now is paid to the darkside of unrestricted market freedom and its contraband commerce. With the retreat of the state, the agency whose primary guiding principle was once thought to be the philosophy of right, governments are capitulating to markets where sordid jungle law and shiftless bazaar behavior increasingly prevail. Hence, without some philosophy of right to guide its collective action, the operational rationalities of contemporary fast capitalism increasingly evade any form of taxation and all modes of regulation in a quest to realize superprofits. Contraband capitalism is part of these equations, and it is tolerated by many as one more price to be paid for our "freedom to choose." Because we now live in an era of global openness, however, the once hidden frictions of this unlawful commerce cannot be contained in the chaotic wild zones spreading across sub-Saharan Africa, the Andean region, former Soviet Central Asia, the far Eastern reaches of Russia, and Southeast Asia. Contraband capitalism completes many relays of commercialization, circulation, and consumption in the Group of 7 turbocapitalist core as well as for the most destitute member countries in the Group of 77. Unless all of its operations are traced out in the larger workings of the world economy, no one can know how fully the New World Order dysposes of so many people so inconveniently with so many illicit things in the webs of contragovernmental illegality as contraband commerce continues to serve the ends of the few on the eve of Y2K.

[Pallas180]

146. This guy didn't get it

The New World Order he speaks of IS the contragovernmental illegality
and contraband commerce as practiced by the Cabal, Halliburton, Carlyle...


"Unless all of its operations are traced out in the larger workings of the world economy, no one can know how fully the New World Order dysposes of so many people so inconveniently with so many illicit things in the webs of contragovernmental illegality as contraband commerce continues to serve the ends of the few on the eve of Y2K."

[starroute]

141. Washington Trades Human Rights for Oil in Azerbaijan

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0123-01.htm

January 23, 2003

The oil-rich nation of Azerbaijan, eagerly courted by the Bush administration, is suffering its worst repression since it became an independent state--after the Soviet collapse more than a decade ago--according to a new report released today by New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW).

The 55-page report, "Crushing Dissent: Repression Violence and Azerbaijan's Elections," details hundreds of arbitrary arrests, widespread beatings and torture, and politically motivated firings of opposition activists and supporters following October 15 presidential elections widely denounced as unfair and fraudulent by Western and other observers.

The elections confirmed Ilham Aliev as the nation's new ruler. He is the son of Heidar Aliev, a former top KGB official and Kremlin adviser, who became president two years after Azerbaijan became independent in 1991. The elder Aliev died last month while receiving medical treatment in the United States.

<snip>

Corruption under the Alievs has reportedly been rampant, particularly with the investment of billions of dollars by foreign oil companies eager to exploit the country's energy resources, found primarily in and around the capital, Baku, and beneath Azerbaijan's territorial waters in the Caspian Sea

[Pallas180]

147. Gee. I wonder who was behind that fixed election?

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Pallas180]

149. Shades of our election to come? ? ?

The 55-page report, "Crushing Dissent: Repression Violence and Azerbaijan's Elections," details hundreds of arbitrary arrests, widespread beatings and torture, and politically motivated firings of opposition activists and supporters following October 15 presidential elections widely denounced as unfair and fraudulent by Western and other observers. "
"

[PROGRESSIVE1]

137. .....1

[shraby]

138. What do you mean by 1 n/t

[Pallas180]

148. Maybe Progressive

wanted us to see his/her signature:


"Financially Boycott those who oppose us. They have decided to destroy us and we MUST do the same. I have no objection to denying Right Wingers the right to make a living."


I've been saying something similar, but it is to stop buying.
STOP BUYING.

any product that does not have a made in the USA label.

which is difficult. everything in stores has a label, China, Viet Nam, India.

I dare you to find labels "Made In USA".

So stop buying. Financial boycott. Don't feed the multi-nationals
who are shipping our jobs to cheap labor and then selling it back to
us at high prices.

STOP BUYING



ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[shraby]

154. FROM NONSENSE TO NATIONHOOD:

A DANGEROUS TRAJECTORY OF AZERBAIJANI REVISIONISM IN AZERBAIJAN

A partial history of Azerbaijan up to around 1996. Not good at all.

<http://www.artsakhworld.com/Eng/Haji-petros/Oldmistakes.htm>

[shraby]

156. The Porter Goss thread is started.

Porter Goss..Friend or Foe. Have at it, and give it a kick.

[Pallas180]

158. good show...going over there now

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Pallas180]

157. Jesus Christ. Cannibalism, Fascism, Anti-semitism, Anti-Armenian

Grey Wolves butchering pogroms against Armenians as recent as 1992....

Just the kind of crew Kissinger, Baker, and Cheney would hang with.

copying mein kampf in speeches.

It's unbelievabe

[shraby]

160. I figured you'd make the link Pallas

they would fit right in...their kinda people.

[starroute]

164. Here's an article that seems extremely important

I'd run across some scattered fragments of the story when I posted about the Azerbaijan/Iran-Contra connection in my posts #162 and #163, but I had no idea what I was looking at. This may be the full scoop. There's far too much to cover with a brief quote, so please go look at the original story. But here are a few paragraphs from the beginning to give the flavor. (I think the author must be from the Hunter Thompson school of gonzo journalism. It gets even weirder further along.)

http://www.diacritica.com/sobaka/2003/shah.html

With the army battered by the Armenians of Karabakh, and the government criticized by an increasingly hostile public, the Azeri president turned to the few Americans in his country for help. Three men with backgrounds out of a spy novel lent him their services. Over the course of the next two years, the company they founded procured thousands of dollars worth of weapons and recruited at least two thousand Afghan mercenaries for Azerbaijan - the first mujahedin to fight on the territory of the former Communist Bloc.

And they did it under the guise of an oil company.

<snip>

We will state up-front that we have discovered no documentary evidence to tie MEGA Oil, as an entity, definitively to the United States government. There is however considerable evidence that all three prime movers in the company - former Iran-Contra conspirator Richard Secord, legendary Air Force special operations commander Harry "Heinie" Aderholt, and the man known as either a diabolical con-man or a misunderstood patriot, Gary Best - were in the past involved in some of the most infamous activities of in the history of the CIA.

<snip>

In fact, the MEGA Oil debacle followed the model of the Iran-Contra Affair with uncanny accuracy, down to the formation of shell companies and, possibly, the use of private sector companies to contravene both the letter and the intent of American law. Together with Oliver North, Secord had pioneered this model in the 1980s to fund the Nicaraguan Contras and make themselves millionaires in the bargain. By a remarkable coincidence or a cunning design, the MEGA Oil enterprise would have served the same purpose.

<snip>

GARY BEST HAS made it his business not to be found. A self-described "electronics importer," he has left a long trail of anecdote and innuendo of past misdeeds but few testifying witnesses. He was a marginal figure in one of the many subplots of the Iran-Contra Scandal, though how exactly he was related to the activities of Oliver North and his co-conspirators is unclear. His importing business was concentrated primarily in Southeast Asia, but somehow brought him into contact with the Afghan Mujahedin, Iran-Contra conspirator Richard Secord and legendary Air Force special operations commander Brigadier General Harry "Heinie" Aderholt. His current mailing address, and his current profession, are unknown.

[Zan_of_Texas]

206. From that same article......

As for Gary Best, his fate is unclear. Andrew repeated a rumor heard by many former Best associates that their man had been nailed trafficking in nuclear materials in the port of Baku by the Azeri police. It was later covered up, or so the story goes, because Azerbaijan under Aliyev - a repressive, brutal dictator - is an American partner only for his claims to have stabilized a resource-rich country torn apart by war and ready to explode by a revolt of the disenfranchised - in essence, a Shah and a Commissar in one.

[Pallas180]

165. THIS IS A MUST READ -Bush-Neocons & The Nazis

© Copyright 2001-2004: Glen Yeadon The Nazi Hydra in America is copyright protected material. However, readers may freely quote the material for non commercial purposes provided they reference the source. Commercial use is banned.

"Too many people still believe that fascism can't happen here. It is happening here today. The Gestapo is firmly in place in the form of Ashcroft's justice department. The FBI no longer serves to protect the citizens; instead it is being used to protect this regime, by such means as the gagging of Sibel Edmonds, for instance. The FBI is no longer primarily charged with criminal investigation instead its being used to enforce this regime's policies and finally the FBI, other federal law enforcement agencies and the military are illegally spying on anyone opposed to this regime. Moreover, Representative Porter Goss, Bush's choice to head the CIA has introduced legislation that would allow the CIA to conduct operations inside the United States including arbitrary arrests of American citizens."
______________________________________________________________________

http://madiaq.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/8877.php

long article, but very very good

George W. Bush, The Neocons, & The Nazis: Ties That Bind

by glen yeadon Sunday August 22, 2004 at 05:10 AM


There are numerous connections between the Bush family and the Nazis. Moreover, the philosophy of the neocons within the Bush administration has already been connected with fascism. However, no article has attempted to present an overview of the fascist connections within the Bush administration.

8/21/04

From the Streets of Little Beirut

By Glen Yeadon

Numerous writers have compared the Bush tactics with those used by Hitler, while others have documented the connection between Prescott Bush and the Nazis. However, there is much more to what has lead the Bush regime to transform the United Stated into a fascist police state. Few people are aware that it is the Republican Party which paid for Nazi broadcasts in the 1930s or that the GOP employed Nazis in election campaigns. Fewer are aware that Herbert Hoover conspired with top Nazi officials in Berlin to unseat Roosevelt in the 1940 election. Others have forgotten that George Bush senior as chairman of the Republican Party set up the ethnic heritage groups of the party as havens for former Nazis or that he employed known Nazi war criminals on his campaign staff.
Moreover, as the New York Republican convention nears convening, it is increasingly obvious that protestors will be dealt with brutally. New weapons such as a sound blaster developed for the military are already in place in New York blurring the lines between the military and civilian affairs. Over fifty protestors are being tightly watch and tailed, their only crime is their opposition to Bush. The Republican governor has suggested that free speech is not a right but a privilege that can be revoke. Additionally there is a massive operation going on in Florida and other states to deny Blacks their right to vote. Finally the Bush administration is using terror alerts to frighten voters and to condition them to the possibility of a canceled election. These and similar tactics are no different than the tactics Hitler's brown shirts employed.

The fascist philosophy underlying the present Bush administration. (See accompanying diagram.) http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushadmin.html

There are numerous connections between the Bush family and the Nazis. Moreover, the philosophy of the neocons within the Bush administration has already been connected with fascism. However, no article has attempted to present an overview of the fascist connections within the Bush administration. This article will begin to outline the fascist connections between the present Bush administration and the Nazis, using a two-prong approach. The philosophical roots of Bush and the neocons can be traced back to one of America's notorious fascist.

Several authors have already noted the link between senior members of the Bush administration and the fascist Leo Strauss. However, exploring further the philosophical roots of Bush administration, we see that this connection leads back to the robber barons and the empire of J.P Morgan. Due to the natural congeniality between the robber barons and the corporate state of fascism, most of America's leading industrialists became America's leading supporters of fascism. They were responsible for bringing Hitler to power and for building Hitler's war machine.

Strauss is nominally portrayed as a Jewish refugee from Nazi Germany. However, Strauss wasn't the hapless Jewish refugee that he is purported to be. Strauss adopted Zionism at the age of 17. There is a close and sinister association between Zionism and the Nazis. Many of the Zionists supported Hitler and the Nazis. In fact, the Nazis concluded a transfer agreement with the Zionists. The Zionists were attempting to limit the choices available for Europe's Jews to two choices: immigrate to Palestine or perish in the Holocaust.

As a student, Strauss began studying the philosophers that provided the basis for fascism: Nietzsche, Heidegger, and Schmitt. He became a devoted lifelong follower of their philosophy. Strauss's philosophy and views became increasingly fascist as his studies progressed. The hallmark of Strauss's philosophy was his belief in totalitarian government. He rejected all principles of natural law and believed in keeping the masses ignorant and in general servitude.

Strauss left Nazi Germany with the warm commendation of the Nazi jurist and philosopher Carl Schmitt. Schmitt was personally responsible, in 1934, for arranging a Rockefeller Foundation scholarship for Strauss, which enabled him to leave Germany, to study first in France and then England. He arrived in the United States from Britain in the fall of 1937. Briefly appointed Research Fellow in the Department of History of Columbia University, he then became a member of the graduate faculty at the New School for Social Research in 1938.

The New School of Social Research was founded in 1919, a year after Willard Straight's death from influenza. Straight had been a partner of J.P. Morgan. He believed that America's security depended upon the British fleet and that it was in the United States own interest to enter the war. At the same time, he saw the war as an opportunity for American bankers and industrialists to make substantial gains internationally at the expense of Britain. Morgan was an anglophile and believed in the entry of the U.S. in the war. In 1915, Straight left the Morgan empire for a position with the American International Corporation, itself affiliated with the National City Bank.

In 1914, Straight and his wife Dorothy (maiden name, Dorothy Payne Whitney) invited Herbert Croly to edit the first edition of the New Republic, a new magazine funded by Straight. During WWI, J.P. Morgan was obsessed with the media and endeavored to control it. Providing backing for the New Republic had a threefold purpose for Morgan. Firstly, it would keep him abreast of the thinking in left-wing circles. He even had an inside man in the communist press. Secondly, Morgan believed a magazine such as the New Republic allowed the left to blow off steam, thus acting as a safety valve. Finally, he also believed it would give him a power of veto on any actions originated by the left, in case they ever went radical.

Funding the New Republic was not the only effort funded by Morgan to gain control of the press. In 1915, he got together 12 leading men within the newspaper business and commissioned them to determine how one could control the national press. They agreed that, to control the national press, all that was needed was to control 25 of the most influential papers. Morgan immediately sent emissaries to purchase the editorial policy of the 25 selected papers. Morgan also used his money to form the American Legion and to craft it into a union busting and redbaiting group of hired thugs that ran amok during the 1919 Red Scare terrorizing and murdering countless union leaders and leftists.

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) was another Morgan front group aimed at controlling the American people. The CFR evolved out of the Rhodes Roundtable group during WWI. Most of the early members were Morgan employees who had met their English counterparts during the Paris Peace Conference. The CFR was a bridging group between the Morgans and the Rockefellers, and the Rockefellers provided much of the financial support. As the Rockefeller fortune came to outgrow the Morgan fortune, the CFR became more dominated by the Rockefellers. Percy Rockefeller, a Skull and Bones member who served on the board of the Morgan Guaranty Trust further strengthened the bridge between the Morgan and Rockefeller dynasties.

The New Republic certainly fits the blueprint of Morgan's efforts to control the media. Initially, all outside contributions had to be unanimously approved by its editorial board. The New School for Social Research followed in the footsteps of the New Republic. Straight's widow and the wife of another J.P. Morgan partner, Mrs. Thomas Lamont, were instrumental in establishing the New School. Two years later in 1921, Alvin Johnson, the assistant editor of the New Republic was named Director of the New School. Strauss remained at the Morgan-connected New School for Social Research for ten years. In 1948, he accepted a position at the Rockefeller founded University of Chicago.

Not only was Strauss a promoter of fascist ideology, but his entry into the United States and his work there through most of his life was supported financially by two of the most powerful American fascist families. While the dealings of the Rockefeller-owned Standard Oil Company with the Nazis during the war allowed the family the thin pretense that they were not personally involved, other actions by the Rockefeller family confirm their fascist ideology. It was the Rockefeller Foundation that provided funding for much of the Nazi research into eugenics, including the funding for the twin research conducted in the concentration camps by Mengele.

Strauss's connections to the neo-cons within the Bush administration are well known at this point. Numerous other neo-cons serving in the Bush administration or the American Enterprise Organization, who funded the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), were students and followers of Strauss. Not only can this be seen in their dictatorial approach but it is also visible in their strong pro-Israeli views. An interesting aspect of Strauss's tenure at the University of Chicago is that it is during his tenure that both David Rockefeller and John Ashcroft received their degrees from the University of Chicago.

The Rockefeller family played a key role not only in funding Strauss but also in destroying the economies of Third World nations. The Rockefellers have used the University of Chicago and their various family foundations to promote an economic policy of ruin. The laissez-faire economics promoted by the Chicago school has failed numerous times in the past and was one of the leading causes of the 1929 stock market crash and resulting Great Depression. Such economic policies only lead to global fascism and corporate rule, which are the prime goal of the Rockefeller family.

This is evident in David Rockefeller's support of free trade agreements, the World Trade Organization and the World Bank. These trade organization and agreements have impoverished much of the Southern Hemisphere with their draconian demands for privatization and cuts in social spending. Moreover, these trade agreements effectively reduce the government's role to that of an enforcer of corporate policies. All of these free trade agreements contain a clause setting up a tribunal comprised of corporations to settle all disputes, including claims against the government. The clause effectively bypasses the court systems in signatory countries. In effect, these clauses confer supreme sovereignty to multinational corporations who answer to no one. Under these clauses, corporations are free to claim environmental laws, labor laws and other laws are harmful to the company and cause it financial loss, which results in massive settlements against the government and in the overturning of needed laws.

One of the chief advocates of these free trade agreements is Dick Cheney, who has promised David Rockefeller that he would deliver a hemisphere trade agreement before the end of the current Bush administration.

Such unconstitutional trade agreements have become commonplace as a result of the Rockefellers' ability to control and direct economic thought in the United States. In essence, the Rockefellers maintain a monopoly on economic theory. To understand how they gained such control brings us back to the 1920s. During the 1920s, two economists rose to prominence: Ludwig von Mises, and Friedrich A. Hayek. Both were helped by Rockefeller money. Von Mises toured the United States in 1926. The tour of American Universities was sponsored by the Laura Spelman Rockefeller Foundation and was greatly successful in promoting the views of the Austrian School of Economics. Hayek tutored personally David Rockefeller in economics.

In 1950, von Hayek was brought to the United States to teach at the University of Chicago. He didn't teach economics, he was actually made a professor on the Committee on Social Thought. This was an exceptionally dangerous position for a man that held the views von Hayek did. In 1945, von Hayek's The Road to Serfdom was published. This poorly written book was an attack on the concept of the nation-state. In it, von Hayek argued that the nation-state was a hindrance to peace, and socialism led to totalitarian systems, which treated their citizens as serfs. In place of the nation-state von Hayek proposed a supra-national authority or world federation consisting of the financial elite.

This elite would then be free to rule the world according to their own interest. In 1947, von Hayek created the Mount Pelerin Society, made up of the financial elite of Europe, as a first step toward his supranational authority. In the years since, the Mount Perlin Society has been influential in creating numerous "conservative" think tanks, which promote free market economic policies for the Establishment. The society has expanded to include the following think tanks: the Heritage Foundation in 1973, the Fraser Institute in 1974, the Manhattan Institute in 1977, and the Pacific Institute for Public Policy Research in 1978.

The influence of the Chicago University on modern economics is unprecedented. Since 1969, most of the Nobel prizes in economics have been awarded to the free traders, despite the spectacular failures of laissez-faire economies.

Economists who dare publish articles opposing the thought of the Chicago University, are quickly ridiculed, their works dismissed, and their careers wrecked. All this is a testimony to the power of the Rockefeller family and its control over economy and free thought.

The connection between the University of Chicago and fascism was renewed in the 1960s under Pinochet in Chile. It was the "boys from Chicago", students of Milton Friedman, who destroyed the economy and reduced the citizens to serfdom in Pinochet's fascist Chile, where dissent was eliminated by right-wing death squads.

According to von Hayek's views, corporations are given the status of sovereign nations while the nation-states are reduced to mere quislings of the corporate state and enforcer of their laws. This is the same agenda as that of the World Trade Organization, the International Monetary fund and the many so-called "free trade agreements." Many of the Bush neocons are further linked with von Hayek by their beliefs in Mandeville. (Von Hayek rejected the idea that man was created in the image of god and traced his philosophical ancestry to the early eighteenth century Satanist, Bernard Mandeville.)

At this point, it becomes clear that the Bush administration's philosophical roots are clearly grounded in fascist ideology and in the fascist dogma of the corporate state. That these roots come from two of America's richest families confirms fascism as a top-down revolution by the elite to maintain their control and power. The fascist roots of the Bush regime are manifested in the operative side of its philosophy, through the Psychological Strategy Board under Nelson Rockefeller. C D Jackson served in the Eisenhower administration; he was in charge of the psychological warfare. Both Bruce and Howell Jackson were part of the PNAC project, the blueprint for the Bush regime.

The operative route: how the fascists manifested themselves. (See accompanying diagram.) http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushadmin.html

A return to the partners of J.P Morgan provides the operative connection between the Bush administration and fascism. Thomas Lamont was a prominent figure in the 1934 fascist plot to remove Roosevelt from office. The plot called for retired Marine General Smedley Butler to lead the force --much of it consisting of American Legionnaires-- to take over the White House. Roosevelt would be given a chance to step down and to cooperate with the plotters. If Roosevelt refused to let the business leaders seize power, then the plotters would kill him.

However, Butler was an honorable man, and he leaked the information concerning the plot to Roosevelt. Roosevelt knew he could not simply dismiss it when it was connected with several leading industrialists and bankers. To foil the plot, Roosevelt leaked information about it to the press. The resulting commotion in the front pages of the country's newspapers undermined any efforts by the plotters to proceed.

Butler described his military career as follows.


"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses…. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested."


A third partner of J. P. Morgan, Henry Davison, financed the Yale Aviation Club, of which his son Trubee was a member. Many of the Aviation Club members were also members of the Skull and Bones secret society at Yale. The club gained fame during WWI. Robert Lovett led the unit during the war. Artemus Gates was another member. Trubee was injured in a crash during training and never saw combat.

The most interesting aspect of this group of college aviation buffs is how many of them later served in WWII on the targeting selection committee. Henry Simpson, Secretary of War and a former Bonesman, appointed John McCloy as his Assistant Secretary of War in charge of intelligence. Robert Lovett was appointed Assistant Secretary of War for air. Directly under Lovett was Trubee Davison. Davison held the position of assistant chief of staff at A-1. Artemus Gates served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy for air. James Stillman Rockefeller served with the Airborne Command and Airborne Center as assistant chief of staff.

Clearly the Department of War, and particularly the command for air had an unusually high number of members from the Yale Aviation Unit and the Skull and Bones. Moreover, these individuals all had extensive ties to Wall Street firms, which had a history of doing business with the Nazis. Certainly they were able to influence the target selection in the air campaign against Germany. Lovett was a lifelong advocate of what amounts to terror bombing, the bombing of civilian centers.

The air campaign against Germany left eighty percent of the homes destroyed. Factory production was only reduced by twenty percent. However, much of the reduction in factory production came about not by damage to the factories, but from delays and shortages of parts caused by the disruption of the transportation system from bombing damage. For example, Cologne was a city targeted for massive bombing attacks. While the city lay in ruins, the Ford and I.G. Farben plants escaped all but minor bomb damage. In Berlin, a city that had been reduced to rubble from the bombing campaign, the Allies chose the I.G. Farben building for their headquarters. It had escaped all but minor damage from the bombs.

Robert Lovett and Prescott Bush were both Bonesmen employed by Brown Brothers and Harriman. In fact, many of the top directors and partners of Brown Brothers & Harriman were Bonesmen. It was one of the main firms on Wall Street to have extensive dealings with the Nazis.

The deals with the Nazis were so extensive at Brown Brothers & Harriman that Prescott Bush had 23 firms seized from him for trading with the enemy. Five firms were seized from Bush in 1942, another 18 firms were seized shortly after the war. The 18 firms had been allowed to operate during the war only because seizing them had been judged detrimental to the war effort and their continued operation posed little risk to the Allies.

Before the firms were seized, Prescott Bush hired the Dulles brothers to conceal the Nazi ownership in these firms. Any window of deniability slammed shut the minute Bush hired the Dulles brothers to conceal the Nazi's ownership. This is when it becomes treason by both Bush and the Dulles brothers. It confirms that both parties knew that the continued operation of these companies was in violation of U.S. policy and of the Trading with the Enemy Act. Moreover, it confirms that both parties freely chose to aid the Nazis when the U.S. was at war with Nazi Germany.

The Wall Street law firm of Sullivan and Cromwell employed both John Foster and Allan Dulles. Throughout the 1930s and the early 1940s, the Dulles brothers were busy cloaking Nazi ownership of numerous corporations and their cartel arrangements with I.G. Farben. Not only was their work treasonous in and of itself, it also delayed the production of war materials and munitions.

Aside from his 23 corporations seized for violating the Trading with the Enemy Act, Prescott Bush was a leader in the American eugenic movement. The American eugenic movement was successful in the passage of sterilization laws in many states for anyone judged unfit. These laws served as the basis of the Nuremberg Laws passed by the Nazis. Much of the Nazi eugenic research was funded, even during the war, with money from the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Foundation. The Harriman's were also large financial backers of the movement.

After the war, John Foster Dulles, with the aid of Rockefeller money, led a world tour of third-world nations stressing the danger of population expansion of nonAryan races. George Bush, Prescott's son, has followed in his father's footsteps in setting up population control in third-world nations through the UN. In his first political race, George Bush campaigned against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and as a member of congress he warned of the danger of too many Black babies. While population control may be a laudable goal, in the hands of the Bush family it becomes another eugenic tool aimed at eliminating nonAryan races.

Moreover, Cold Springs Harbor, the center of eugenic research in the 1920s and 1930s is still operating. It is currently a leader of the human genome project. While the genome project will undoubtedly provide many future medical benefits, Cold Springs remains firmly under the control of the same families involved in the American eugenics movement. Current directors William Gerry and Allen Dulles Jebsen are the grandsons of Harriman and Allan Dulles respectively.

The genome project provides the ideal cover to develop a genome-specific bioweapon, a weapon with the sole purpose of committing genocide on a massive scale. Such a weapon has been described by the PNAC as a politically useful tool. The PNAC is the road map George W. Bush is following as a "War President."

This is not the only link between the Rockefeller Foundation and questionable programs. In 1931, with funding from the Rockefeller Foundation, Dr. Cornelius Rhoads infected human subjects with cancer cells. Rhoads later established the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama. It was named the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he began a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.

Following the war, Allan Dulles faced an investigation for treason. While Dulles was crafty enough to escape the charges, one of those aiding him in covering up his crimes was Richard Nixon. While still serving in the navy, Nixon was given some captured documents to review. The contents would have revealed Allan Dulles as a traitor. In exchange for burying the documents Dulles agreed to fund Nixon's first political campaign. Nixon's campaign benefited from large contributions from a large New York bank connected with Brown Brothers and Harriman.

Captured Nazi documents reveal they had a comeback plan. Their plan to regain power after the war revolved around using their friends or other fascist sympathizers in other countries --and particularly in the United States-- to do their bidding while rebuilding Germany. The documents note that, as late as 1944, the Nazis were hoping for a Republican victory in the presidential election because they would get an easier peace. The second part of their plan aimed at provoking a war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, which would allow the Nazis to retake power in Germany without U.S. intervention.

Politically, Eisenhower had a tin ear, and he was politically naïve. When John Foster Dulles approached him in Europe to run for election in 1948, Eisenhower had no foreign policy concept formulated. He was easily swayed by Dulles' idea of massive nuclear retaliation, which led to the appointment of Dulles as secretary of state. While Eisenhower was no Nazi and expressed his hatred of Nazis and Germans in his letters to his wife, he allowed the American Nazis like the Dulles brothers to gain a great deal of control over his administration. Eisenhower appointed Allan Dulles as CIA Director, and Prescott Bush and John Lovett were Eisenhower's close golfing buddies. Prescott Bush was also the driving force in selecting Richard Nixon as Eisenhower's running mate. Nelson Rockefeller was appointed to head the Psychological Strategy Board. Numerous employees of Sullivan and Cromwell, the two Wall Street firms most involved with the Nazis, held important positions within the administration.

John McCloy and General Draper, both from the former Control Council of Germany, fulfilled important roles in the Eisenhower administration. Nothing was left to chance in the rebirth of the Nazis. In postwar Germany, the three most powerful figures: John McCloy head of the Control Council, Lewis Douglas, the head of the Finance Division of the Control Council and Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, were all brothers-in-law. They all had wed daughters of Fredrick Zinsser, a partner of JP Morgan.

While the American Nazis succeeded in gaining partial control of the Eisenhower administration and were able to stoke the fires of the Cold War, they failed to secure total control. Although these American Nazis managed to dupe the tired old general, they never succeeded in completely tricking him. Even after suffering a debilitating heart attack the old general refused to turn over the reins of power to Nixon, a man he loathed. Before leaving office, Eisenhower realized he had been duped and left us his rather cryptic warning about the military-industrial complex, suggesting the dangers of corporate rule.

Since 1960, Eisenhower's warning has gone largely unheeded. Beginning with the rise of fascism and the elitism within the Reagan administration, the military keeps taking up a bigger portion of the budget, social welfare has been largely eliminated --just as it was eliminated in Nazi Germany. Today, under the regime of George W. Bush, it is clear that the corporations within the military-industrial complex are in control of the country. It allows Dick Cheney to pad his retirement account at Halliburton with millions of dollars of Halliburton overcharges for services not delivered in the Iraq War. Meanwhile, many of the soldiers are sent into combat without body armor.

A recently disclosed top-secret document from the NSC reveals that the NSC staff were instructed to cooperate fully with Dick Cheney's Energy Task Force as it considered the "melding" of two seemingly unrelated areas of policy: "the review of operational policies towards rogue states," such as Iraq, and "actions regarding the capture of new and existing oil and gas fields." The document suggests that Cheney's Energy Task Force was actually a discussion for geostrategic plans for oil, putting the issue of war in the context of the captains of the oil industry sitting down with Cheney and laying grand, global plans. This would confirm Bush's plans for regime change in 60 countries and his support for rebel forces opposing the democratic government of Venezuela as well as the increasing hostility of the Bush administration towards Iran.

Too many people still believe that fascism can't happen here. It is happening here today. The Gestapo is firmly in place in the form of Ashcroft's justice department. The FBI no longer serves to protect the citizens; instead it is being used to protect this regime, by such means as the gagging of Sibel Edmonds, for instance. The FBI is no longer primarily charged with criminal investigation instead its being used to enforce this regime's policies and finally the FBI, other federal law enforcement agencies and the military are illegally spying on anyone opposed to this regime. Moreover, Representative Porter Goss, Bush's choice to head the CIA has introduced legislation that would allow the CIA to conduct operations inside the United States including arbitrary arrests of American citizens.

Ike's military-industrial complex, the PNAC document, the World Trade Organization, free trade agreements, and the George W. Bush regime are all parts of the many-headed Nazi Hydra in America.

If George Bush declares a red alert or martial law or manages to steal another election, will you be one of the first sent to the concentration camps? Will you go quietly like a lamb? Will you allow the Gestapo to haul away your neighbor, your wife, your son or daughter? Will you live next to the crematories with your head in the sand as the Germans did? Or will you oppose the regime and help reestablish the constitutional republic?

The time to decide is now, tomorrow may be too late. The corporate state of fascism has risen from the ashes of 9/11 like a giant phoenix. It will consume all that opposes it. The Fourth Reich has risen. Beware. Your life and freedoms depend on it.

For greater details into these connections and others and complete documentation click the link below to the Nazi Hydra in America.

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/nazihydra.html




www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushadmintext.html#top

add your comments

[ElementaryPenguin]

198. Holy shit! No wonder Coulter thinks Ike was a traitor...

A traitor to the NAZI cause! Some incredibly heavy shit here! It will not be easy getting rid of this world order to bullshit!

[Pallas180]

169. Did we come across the name Farish on some of these chambers?

"Octafish (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-22-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message

4. Poppy's best bud's fortune came from selling oil to NAZIs.


William Stamps Farish, like the Bush-Walker family -- as their associates the Harrimans and Dulleses and much of the rest of the kleptocracy -- knew how to make money off of war...

More on the Bush-Nazi Connection

EXCERPT...

Meanwhile Hitler’s Nazi Party was broke once more, so in 1928 he approached Fritz Thyssen again and hit him up for a huge sum of money (estimates run between 250,000 and 1,000,000 German marks) to buy Barlow Palace in Munich and turn it into the Nazi Party Headquarters.

Then came the Depression and Harriman & Co merged with a London company, Brown/Shipley and Harriman & Co became Brown Brothers, Harriman. The firm moved to 59 Wall Street but the Union Banking Corporation remained at 39 Broadway. Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush formed a new company, Harriman 15 Corporation. One of the companies Harriman 15 Corp owned 1/3rd of the stock in was Consolidated Silesian Steel Company. The other 2/3rds was owned by Freidrich Flich.

In 1932 Fritz Thyssen joined the Nazi Party and by 1934 with Hitler firmly in power, he contracted the Thyseen/Flich empire to rebuild the German military machine. Thyssen and Flick were making money hand over fist and so was UBC in New York. Prescott Bush was made managing director of UBC and handled the day-to-day operations of the Thyssen/Flich empire. Then in 1934 the Polish government threatened to takeover the Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and the Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company for non-payment of taxes and other corrupt practices. Bush hired John Foster Dulles to paper over the ripoff. But in 1939 Hitler invaded Poland and of course the takeover never occurred.

One of the reasons Auschwitz was built in Upper Silesia was because it was located near the vast coal deposits and one of the companies that employed the slave labour from Aushwitz was the Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation. Then Thyssen and Flich sold Consolidated to UBC and under the total control of Harriman and Bush it became the Silesian American Corporation.

Not only did Prescott Bush’s company employ slave labour, it also made the steel that killed Allied soldiers during WWII. Following the war, Prescott liquidated all the assets of UBC and related companies and used some of the ill-gotten gains to finance his bid for senate and some of it to finance Bush Senior’s first company, Overby Development Company. The blind trust setup by Bush Senior was managed by his old buddy, William Farish Junior who on March 25th, 1942 pleaded "no contest" to conspiring with Nazi Germany while president of Standard Oil of New Jersey. Standard Oil opened a gasoline plant in Auschwitz in 1940.

SOURCE:

http://www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0143.html

"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics

[Pallas180]

171. I think you guys better look at this: corporate mercenary armies -

http://www.williambowles.info/index.html#Anchor-The-17304


7. '”Toxic Bob” Wastes Burma: Forced Labour And Pollution Rampant At Canadian-Owned Mine', March 2001.

8. 'Rent-a-coup: Who's who', Mail & Guardian, 12 Mar 2004

9. 'The Privatisation Of Violence: New Mercenaries And The State' by Christopher Wrigley, March 1999. Campaign Against Arms Trade

10. 'Foot Soldiers of the New World Order: The Rise of the Corporate Military' By Simon Sheppard, New Left Review March/April 1998.

11. 'Canadian Mercenary Corporation Strikes Oil In Uganda. Oil Is Potential Source Of Conflict In Great Lakes Region'

12. 'From Enemy to Peacemaker: The Role of Private Military Companies in Sub-Saharan Africa' by Jesse Selber and Kebba Jobarteh, 2000.

For other sources on EO see the following:

The Observer, 19/1/97, Jane's Defence Weekly, 13/11/96, Jane's International Defence Review 3, 1998, Independent 13/5/98, Africa Confidential, 1/5/98, 29/5/98, 23/10/98.

13. 'Van Rensburg believed there was a threat of chemical warfare against South African security forces', Freedom of Expression Institute, June 2000.

14. 'Mercenary Connections: DiamondWorks, Executive Outcomes, and the New Corporate Military Market' 1999 by Linda Lebrun.
www.theattache.org/9901/article01.htm

For an massive resource on the activities of EO, see 'Executive Outcomes: Mercenary Corporation OSINT Guide' Dr. Robert J. Bunker and Steven F. Marin, July 1999 and prepared, predictably for the US Army. Unfortunately, many of the links no longer work, so see Center for Public Integrity links below. I've made the OSINT resource available locally just in case it disappears.

15. 'Mercenaries in Africa: From Soldiers of Fortune to Corporate Warriors' by Eva Dadrian August 17, 2004.

16. 'Sandline Affair, The True Story', 3 July 2001, Center for Media, Education & Technology.

17. See Note 9.

18. 'Peacekeeping 'Role' for Mercenaries', BBC, February 13, 2002.

19. 'Military Contractors in Iraq: Privatizing Unaccountability and Torture?', June 17 2004, Common Dreams.

The following links are also extremely useful for anyone wanting to followup on the sordid world of mercenary armies. All are from the excellent
Center for Public Integrity

'Making a Killing: The Business of War' by Phillip Van Niekerk

'Privatizing Combat, the New World Order' By Laura Peterson

'Marketing the 'New Dogs of War'' by Duncan Campbell

'The Curious Bonds of Oil Diplomacy' By Sunday Dare

Supporting Documents

[Pallas180]

172. William Farish II, III, and IV - & Standard Oil

William Stamps Farish II
William Stamps Farish II (1881 February 23 Mayersville, Mississippi to 1942 November 29 Millbrook NY)
Son of William Stamps Farish (1843-1899) and Katherine Maude Power (1860-1931)<1>, cousin of Jefferson Davis <1> (For unknown reasons, his father is not usually counted in the sequence.)

He married Libbie Randon Rice in Houston on 1911 June 1. They had a son and a daughter. He was a founding member of American Petroleum Institute and was its president in 1926.

Farish, with others, founded Humble Oil in March 1917; it was eventually absorbed by Standard Oil/Exxon. In 1933 he became chairman of the board of Standard's New Jersey division, and in 1937 became Standard's general president.

Sometime in the 1930s, Standard Oil and IG Farben had come to an agreement that Standard would not compete in rubber in Germany whilst IG Farben would neglect oil in the United States. Certain valuable patents, such as that for making a gasoline or kerosene equivalent from coal, were shared. This arrangement became something of a legal and public-relations problem when Standard and Farben found themselves on opposite sides of World War II shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

In February 1942, Ass't Att'y Gen'l Thurman Arnold, Navy Sec'y Franklin Knox, and Army Sec'y Henry Stimson confronted Farish with the charge that, by continuing to favor Hitler in rubber deal and patent arrangements, Standard Oil had acted against US interests.

They suggested a M$1.5 fine, which Farish rejected out of hand, essentially promising to turn off the US' oil supply. (during wartime) Arnold, Stimson, and Knox soon realized they had no power to compare with that of Standard and settled for a ‘no contest’ plea, which avoided a public trial, and a trivial fine of a few grand. Farish paid $1000, a quarter of one week's salary.

But the gov't wasn't finished yet. Arnold and Interior Sec'y Harold Ickes convinced Harry Truman to bring SO before his Senate Special Committee Investigating the National Defense Program. Truman relished rousting out these ‘traitors’…

SO executive. Sold oil and patents to the Luftwaffe during WW2 while his son of the same name was in the US Air Force. Exposure of the scandal probably left the grandson of the same name with the family fortune prematurely.

It is claimed the Auschwitz concentration camp was established as forced labour for the Standard-Farben plant nearby. If so, that would make Farish somewhat complicit in those crimes.


See Also
William Stamps Farish III
William Stamps Farish IV

External Links

[Pallas180]

174. Ambassador to England William Stamps III , Bush 1, & Himmler

Ambassador to England William Stamps III , Bush 1, & Himmler


William Stamps (Will) Farish III

When George Bush was elected vice president in 1980, Texas mystery man
William Stamps Farish III took over management of all of George Bush's
personal wealth in a "blind trust." Known as one of the richest men in
Texas, Will Farish keeps his business affairs under the most intense
secrecy. Only the source of his immense wealth is known, not its
employment. Note #3 Will Farish has long been Bush's closest friend and confidante.

President Bush can count on Farish not to betray the violent secrets surrounding the Bush family money. For Farish's own family fortune was made in the same Hitler project, in a nightmarish partnership with George Bush's father.

On March 25, 1942, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Thurman Arnold
announced that William Stamps Farish (grandfather of the President's
money manager) had pleaded "no contest" to charges of criminal
conspiracy with the Nazis. Farish was the principal manager of a
worldwide cartel between Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey and the I.G.
Farben concern. The merged enterprise had opened the Auschwitz slave
labor camp on June 14, 1940, to produce artificial rubber and gasoline from coal. The Hitler government supplied political opponents and Jews as the slaves, who were worked to near death and then murdered.

Arnold disclosed that Standard Oil of New Jersey (later known as Exxon), of which Farish was president and chief executive, had agreed to stop hiding from the United States patents for artificial rubber which the company had provided to the Nazis. Note #4

A Senate investigating committee under Senator (later U.S. President)
Harry Truman of Missouri had called Arnold to testify at hearings on
corporations' collaboration with the Nazis. The Senators expressed
outrage at the cynical way Farish was continuing an alliance with the
Hitler regime that had begun back in 1933, when Farish became chief of Jersey Standard. Didn't he know there was a war on?

The Justice Department laid before the committee a letter, written to
Standard president Farish by his vice president, shortly after the
beginning of World War II (September 1, 1939) in Europe. The letter
concerned a renewal of their earlier agreements with the Nazis:
The Bush-Farish axis had begun back in 1929. In that year, the
Harriman bank bought Dresser Industries, supplier of oil-pipeline
couplers to Standard and other companies. Prescott Bush became a
director and financial czar of Dresser, installing his Yale classmate
Neil Mallon as chairman. Note #7 George Bush would later name one of
his sons after the Dresser executive.

William S. Farish was the main organizer of the Humble Oil Co. of
Texas, which Farish merged into the Standard Oil Company of New
Jersey. Farish built up the Humble-Standard empire of pipelines and
refineries in Texas.Note #8

In 1933, as what Hitler called his "New Order" appeared, John D.
Rockefeller, Jr. appointed William S. Farish the chairman of Standard
Oil Co. of New Jersey (in 1937 he was made president and chief
executive). Farish moved his offices to Rockefeller Center, New York,
where he spent a good deal of time with Hermann Schmitz, chairman of
I.G. Farben; his company paid a publicity man, Ivy Lee, to write
pro-I.G. Farben and pro-Nazi propaganda and get it into the U.S. press.

Now that he was outside of Texas, Farish found himself in the shipping business-like the Bush family. He hired Nazi German crews for Standard Oil tankers. And he hired "Emil Helfferich," chairman of the Walker/Bush/Harriman Hamburg-Amerika Line, as chairman also of the Standard Oil Company subsidiary in Germany. Karl Lindemann, board
member of Hamburg-Amerika, also became a top Farish-Standard executive in Germany. Note #1 Note #4

This interlock between their Nazi German operations put Farish
together with Prescott Bush in a small, select group of men operating
from abroad through Hitler's "revolution," and calculating that they
would never be punished. In 1939, Farish's daughter Martha married Averell Harriman's nephew, Edward Harriman Gerry, and Farish in-laws became Prescott Bush's partners at 59 Broadway. Note #1 Note #5

Both Emil Helfferich and Karl Lindemann were authorized to write
checks to Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Nazi SS, on a special Standard Oil account. This account was managed by the German-British-American banker, Kurt von Schroeder. According to U.S. intelligence documents reviewed by author Anthony Sutton, Helfferich continued his payments to the SS into 1944, when the SS was supervising the mass murder at the Standard-I.G. Farben Auschwitz and other death camps.

Helfferich told Allied interrogators after the war that these were not his personal contributions-they were corporate Standard Oil funds. Note #1 Note #6

After pleading "no contest" to charges of criminal conspiracy with
the Nazis, William Stamps Farish was fined $5,000. (Similar fines were levied against Standard Oil -- $5,000 each for the parent company and for several subsidiaries.) This of course did not interfere with the millions of dollars that Farish had acquired in conjunction with Hitler's New Order, as a large stockholder, chairman, and president of Standard Oil. All the government sought was the use of patents which his company had given to the Nazis-the Auschwitz patents-but had withheld from the U.S. military and industry.

But a war was on, and if young men were to be asked to die fighting
Hitler.. something more was needed. Farish was hauled before the Senate committee investigating the national defense program. The committee chairman, Senator Harry Truman, told newsmen before Farish testified: "I think this approaches treason." Note #1 Note #7

Farish began breaking apart at these hearings. He shouted his
"indignation" at the senators, and claimed he was not "disloyal."
After the March-April hearings ended, more dirt came gushing out of
the Justice Department and the Congress on Farish and Standard Oil.
Farish had deceived the U.S. Navy to prevent the Navy from acquiring
certain patents, while supplying them to the Nazi war machine;
meanwhile, he was supplying gasoline and tetraethyl lead to Germany's
submarines and air force.

Communications between Standard and I.G. Farben from the outbreak of
World War II were released to the Senate, showing that Farish's
organization had arranged to deceive the U.S. government into passing over Nazi-owned assets: They would nominally buy I.G.'s share in certain patents because "in the event of war between ourselves and Germany ... it would certainly be very undesirable to have this 20 percent Standard-I.G. pass to an alien property custodian of the U.S. who might sell it to an unfriendly interest." Note #1 Note #8

John D. Rockefeller, Jr. (father of David, Nelson, and John D.
Rockefeller III), the controlling owner of Standard Oil, told the Roosevelt administration that he knew nothing of the day-to-day affairs of his company, that all these matters were handled by Farish and other executives. Note #1 Note #9

In August, Farish was brought back for more testimony. He was now
frequently accused of lying. Farish was crushed under the intense,
public grilling; he became morose, ashen. While Prescott Bush escaped
publicity when the government seized his Nazi banking organization in
October, Farish had been nailed. He collapsed and died of a heart
attack on November 29, 1942.


The Farish family was devastated by the exposure. Son William Stamps
Farish, Jr., a lieutenant in the Army Air Force, was humiliated by the
public knowledge that his father was fueling the enemy's aircraft; he
died in a training accident in Texas six months later. Note #2 Note #0
With this double death, the fortune comprising much of Standard Oil's
profits from Texas and Nazi Germany was now to be settled upon the
little four-year-old grandson, William ("Will") Stamps Farish III.
Will Farish grew up a recluse, the most secretive multimillionaire in
Texas, with investments of "that money" in a multitude of foreign
countries, and a host of exotic contacts overlapping the intelligence
and financial worlds-The Bush-Farish axis started George Bush's
career. After his 1948 graduation from Yale (and the Skull and Bones secret society), George Bush flew down to Texas on a corporate jet
and was employed by his father's Dresser Industries. In a couple of years
he got help from his uncle, George Walker, Jr., and Farish's banker
friends, to set him up in the oil property speculation business. Soon
thereafter, George Bush founded the Zapata Oil Company, which put oil
drilling rigs into certain locations of great strategic interest.
Twenty-five-year-old Will Farish was personal aide to Zapata chairman
George Bush in Bush's unsuccessful 1964 campaign for Senate. Farish
used "that Auschwitz money" to back George Bush financially, investing in Zapata. When Bush was elected to Congress in 1966, Farish joined the Zapata Note #2 Note #1

When George Bush became U.S. vice president in 1980, the Farish and
Bush family fortunes were again completely, secretly commingled. As
we shall see, the old projects were now being revived on a breathtaking scale."

See also:
http://mercury.spaceports.com/~persewen/bush_video.htm http://www.keeneland.com/library/milestones.html
"1997 Former President George Bush attended the races as the guest of
W.S. Farish"
http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/papers/1991/91122702.html
"Remarks to the Bee County Community, Beeville, Texas" Note: The
President (George Herbert Walker Bush) spoke at 5:54 p.m. in the Bee
County Rodeo Arena.
December 27, 1991 "And, of course, a special guest that my friend, Will Farish,is entertaining for the weekend and who is entertaining us"

[Pallas180]

175. Dubya chooses Farish III as ambassador to England

Dubya chooses Farish III as ambassador to England


There was little, if any, surprise when President(dubya) Bush chose William S. Farish (III) as ambassador to Great Britain. Farish, a millionaire horse breeder and chairman of Churchill Downs, which hosts the fabled Kentucky Derby each year, is a big Republican donor and a close family friend of the Bushes, whom he has known for more than 50 years.

[Pallas180]

176. SCUSE ME - Look who I found on Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce

while I was looking for more on William Farish III

Hidden among the neo-cons

a guy named Alieyev ---

who just happens to be the newly "elected/appointed" president of IRAQ - ?

Maybe we'd better google more names on the Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm>


Did Bush Sr. use his one-term, with help of James Baker and others, to jump start the Carlyle Group and its mirror entity, The Blackstone Group
http://www.blackstone.com/ headed up by Peter G. Peterson

i.e., Poppy Bush Presidential Library Foundation Trustee and former Marriott employee and Nixon operative, Fred Malek, has one: Thayer Capital Partners http://www.thayercapital.com/

it's mind-boggling the number of boards, etc., some of the same people are associated with -- helps to give them an insider advantage - not only to direct policy, but to profit from it

a look at a few organizations:

-the Nixon Library;

-United States-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce;

the Council on Foreign Relations The Maurice R. Greenberg Center for Geoeconomic Studies;

-the Poppy Bush Presidential Library Foundation

the Nixon Center

Board of Directors Advisory Council

Honorary Chairman: Henry A. Kissinger

Chairman: Maurice R. Greenberg

Dwayne O. Andreas
Jeffrey L. Bewkes
Conrad M. Black
Charles G. Boyd
Tricia Nixon Cox
Julie Nixon Eisenhower
Robert F. Ellsworth (Vice Chairman)
Leslie H. Gelb
Henry A. Kissinger
Eugene K. Lawson
Joseph I. Lieberman
John McCain
Lionel H. Olmer
Peter G. Peterson
James Schlesinger
Brent Scowcroft
Dimitri K. Simes, Center President (Ex Officio)
John H. Taylor, Executive Director of Richard Nixon Library & Birthplace Foundation (Ex Officio)

Chairman: James Schlesinger
David Abshire
Richard V. Allen
Christopher Cox
John Deutch
David Eisenhower
Susan Eisenhower
Evan G. Greenberg
Lee H. Hamilton
Rita E. Hauser
Josef Joffe
Donald M. Kendall
Peter Kovler
Charles Krauthammer
Robert C. McFarlane
Janne Nolan
Joseph S. Nye, Jr.
Richard Plepler
Alexei K. Pushkov
John E. Rielly
Peter R. Rosenblatt
William V. Roth, Jr.
Thomas A. Russo
Angela Stent
Marin Strmecki
Yuli Vorontsov

http://www.nixoncenter.org

United States-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce

HONORARY COUNCIL OF ADVISORS

The USACC Honorary Council of Advisors is comprised of individuals of high distinction. Council members serve in advisory capacity.

James Baker III
Lloyd Bentsen
Zbigniew Brzezinski
Dick Cheney
(Resigned in November, 2000)
Henry Kissinger
Brent Scowcroft
John Sununu

CHAIRMAN EMERITUS
T. Don Stacy

CO-CHAIRMEN OF THE BOARD
Tim Cejka
Executive Vice President, ExxonMobil Exploration Co.
Reza Vaziri
President, R.V. Investment Group

VICE-CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD
James A. Baker, IV
Partner, Baker Botts, L.L.P.

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Ambassador Richard Armitage
President, Armitage Associates
(Resigned in February, 2001)

Farhad Azima
Chairman & CEO, Aviation Leasing Group

Betty Blair
Editor, Azerbaijan International

Howard Chase
Director, International Affairs, BP

Don Condon
President & General Manager, Conoco

Stanley Escudero
Consultant, Moncrief Oil International

Nader Fahm
President, Alfacom

Andrew Fawthrop
Vice President, Unocal International Energy Ventures

Mike Kostiw
General Manager, International Government Relations, ChevronTexaco

David Sambrooks
Vice President & General Manager, Devon Energy

Gregory K. Williams
Strategic Security Manager, Coca Cola


BOARD OF TRUSTEES

Abdullah Akyuz
President, TUSIAD-US Inc.

Ilham Aliyev
First Vice President, SOCAR

Graham Allison
Director, Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs
Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University

Sam Brownback (R-KS)
US Senator

Frank Henke
Chairman, American Bank & Trust Company

Richard Moncrief
Chairman, Moncrief Oil International

Hafiz Pashayev
Ambassador of Azerbaijan in the U.S.

Richard Perle
American Enterprize Institute, former Assistant Secretary of Defense

Joseph R. Pitts (R-PA)
US Congressman

John Roberts
Senior Advisor, American International Group

Stephen Robertson
President, Bertling Logistics

Nancy Tuomey
Vice President, First Union Bank

Frank Verrastro
Senior Policy Advisor, Vinson & Elkins


OFFICERS

Legal Counsel & Secretary
Ted Jonas - Counsel, Baker Botts, L.L.P.

Treasurer
Karl Mattison - V.P. Riggs Bank, N.A.

Executive Director
Seymour Khalilov

[starroute]

178. Reza Vaziri sounds . . . interesting

From the Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce site:

http://www.usacc.org/contents.php?cid=30

Reza Vaziri, President of R.V. Investment Group, has been actively involved in business with Azerbaijan since just after its independence. Most recently, Mr. Vaziri successfully negotiated for concessions to Azerbaijan’s gold resources. Prior to his business career, which initially focused on caviar and fine foods, Mr. Vaziri held a number of high-ranking positions in the pre-revolutionary Iranian Government. He was the Head of Foreign Relations Office at the Ministry of the Imperial Court of Iran. At the time of the revolution, he was Chief of the Office of Political and International Affairs. Mr. Vaziri holds a Law Degree from the National University of Iran.


http://www.press.lt/cgi-bin/Article.asp?Lang=E&ID=138210

Gold project loses sparkle (September 3, 1999)

(Sharg) - The Cabinet may give final consent this month to a gold prospecting joint venture involving the American firm RV Investment and the state enterprise Azergizil, according to certain sources. The two partner enterprises signed a production-sharing contract a year ago, but legal complications have since hindered progress.

Now even if the Cabinet clears the project, another even larger problem awaits. Joint venture chief Reza Vaziri said the project has lost some luster because gold prices have gone down since the partner enterprises signed their deal. He said the World Bank, European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) and other potential lenders have less reason to be interested now than a year ago.

One observer said that the government's need to bolster its gold reserves could put the project back on track. With more gold behind it, the government's credit worthiness would increase.

Despite low world prices, foreign businesses continue to show interest in Azerbaijan's gold, silver and gem deposits. Israeli companies have shown particular enthusiasm.

[starroute]

179. Farhad Azima is definitely of interest

According to the USACC:

In 1976, Mr. Azima founded Global International Airways, a large U.S. carrier, providing passenger and cargo service worldwide. Global operated an all Boeing fleet including 747s, 707s and 727s. Mr. Azima held the positions of President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer during the ten years of operation. Concurrent to his participation in Global, in 1982, he acquired the controlling interest in Capital Air, a U.S. scheduled air carrier with domestic and international operations. Mr. Azima served as Chairman. Capital’s operation included a large maintenance base for major aircraft overhaul located in Smyma, Tennessee. Both the airline and maintenance operations were sold in 1985.

Mr. Azima’s experience prior to the founding of Global International Airways includes the organization of major aviation support services for airline operations in the Middle East. This company later became a major transporter of livestock by air. Other activities in non-aviation fields include heavy industry, cement plants.

http://www.usacc.org/contents.php?cid=33


But see also:
Who is Farhad Azima?
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a258636.htm

Yeah, it's the freepers again, violating copyright to post stuff about a funding scandal that involved both Democrats and Republicans. But the main point is that Global International seems likely to have been CIA (though Azima denies it.)

Of Azima's alleged ties to the CIA, Barcella wrote that his client's former company, Global Airways, had contracts with the Department of Defense and several newspaper stories suggested they were intelligence missions. But even if it were true, Barcella said it was hardly "inappropriate" for a United States businessman to assist his government in an entirely legitimate and legal manner. Some might suggest it was patriotic."

He also said Azima has been linked to business dealings with rogue former CIA agent Edwin Wilson, who is now in jail. Barcella said he was the assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted Wilson in the early 1980s and that nearly half of Wilson's 54-year prison sentence is the result of his conviction of conspiring to kill Barcella. "Believe me," Barcella wrote, "if there had been any connection between Mr. Azima and Mr. Wilson, I would have known it."

Azima also has been linked to the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages scandal during the Reagan administration. Azima has always denied any connection, but a plane linked to him allegedly was used in the affair.

(Hey, it isn't my fault if everything related to Azerbaijan seems to end up pointing back to Iran-Contra and figures, like Edwin Wilson, who were associated with Porter Goss in his early CIA days!)

[starroute]

180. More goodies on Farhad Azima

Organized Crime, The CIA and the Savings and Loan Scandal
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/S&L_Scandal_CIA.html

Indian Springs Bank: Another bank with clear connections to the CIA was the Indian Springs Bank of Kansas City, Kansas (Bainerman, 1992: 279-280; Brewton, 1993: 197-200). The fourth largest stockholder in Indian Springs was Iranian expatriate Farhad Azima, who was also the owner of an air charter company called Global International Air. The Indian Springs bank had made several unsecured loans to Global International Air, totaling $600,000 in violation of the bank's $349,00 borrower limit. In 1983 Global International filed for bankruptcy, and Indian Springs followed suit in 1984. The president of Indiana Springs was killed in 1983 in a car fire that started in the vehicle's back seat and was regarded by law enforcement officials as of suspicious origins.

Global International Air was part of Oliver North's logistical network which shipped arms for the U.S. government on several occasions, including a shipment of 23 tons of TOW missiles to Iran by Race Aviation, another company owned by Azima. Pete Brewton, in his investigation of the Indian Springs bank collapse was told that FBI had not followed up on Indian Springs because the CIA informed them that Azima was "off limits" (Houston Post, February 8, 1990). Similarly the assistant U.S. Attorney handling the Indian Springs investigation was told to "back off from a key figure in the collapse because he had ties to the CIA."

Azima did indeed have ties to the CIA. His relationship with the agency goes back to the late 1970s when he supplied air and logistical support to EATSCO (Egyptian American Transport and Services Corporation), a company owned by former CIA agents Thomas Clines, Theodore Shackley, and Richard Secord. EATSCO was prominently involved in the activities of former CIA agent Edwin Wilson, who shipped arms illegally to Libya. Azima was also closely tied to the Republican party. He had contributed $81,000 to the Reagan campaign. Global International also had other unsavory connections. In 1981, Global International made a payment to organized crime figure Anthony Russo, a convicted felon with a record that included conspiracy, bribery, and prostitution charges. Russo was the lawyer of Kansas City organized crime figures, an employee of Indian Springs, and a member of the board of Global International. Russo later explained that the money had been used to escort Liberian dictator Samuel Doe on a "goodwill trip" to the U.S.

Global International's planes based in Miami were maintained by Southern Air Transport, another CIA proprietary company. According to Franck Van Geyso, an employee of Global International, pilots for Global International ferried arms into South and Central America and returned to Florida with drugs. Indian Springs also made a loan of $400,000 to Morris Shenker, owner of the Dunes Hotel in Las Vegas, former attorney for Jimmy Hoffa, and close associate of Nick Civella and other Kansas City organized crime figures. At the time the loan to Shenker was made, he, Civella, and other Kansas City mobsters were under indictment for skimming $280,000 from Las Vegas' Tropicana Casino.

[starroute]

181. And more on Azima from Pete Brewton

The Mafia, CIA and George Bush
http://www.webcom.com/~pinknoiz/covert/brewton.html

In part of his statement entitled "CIA Gun Running to Iran Goes Back to 1981," Hemmings stated:

"Since at least 1981, a worldwide network of 'free-standing' companies, including airlines, aviation and military spare parts suppliers, and trading companies, has been utilized by the CIA and the U.S. government to illegally ship arms and military spare parts to Iran and to the Contras. These companies were set up with the approval and knowledge of senior CIA offcials and other senior U.S. government officials and staffed primarily by ex-CIA, ex-FBI and ex-military offcers.

"The companies include Aero Systems, Inc., of Miami, Arrow Air, Aero Systems Pvt. Ltd of Singapore, Hierax of Hong Kong, Pan Aviation in Miami, Merex in North Carolina, Sur International, St. Lucia Airways, Global International Airways, International Air Tours of Nigeria, Continental Shelf Explorations, Inc., Jupiter, Florida, Varicon, Inc., Dane Aviation Supply of Miami, and others, such as Parvus, Safir, International Trading and Investment Guaranty Corp., Ltd., and Information Security International Inc.

"Through these mechanisms, staffed by ex-intelligence and military officers, the administration and the CIA have been able to circumvent and ignore the legal intelligence mechanisms and Congressional oversight. C-130, F4, TOWs and Hawk missile parts were shipped to Iran in violation of the arms embargo and a variety of mechanisms were used, including International Air Tours of Nigeria in August and September 1985, Arrow Air in November 1985, and Global International and Pan Aviation and others going back in 1981."

<snip>

"Twetten's decision and that of London station is highly suspect ancl negligent, as they knew, as I did, that the British government was, along with the British arms industry, Tiny Rowland, Ashraf Marwan and Adnan Khashoggi, his partner, deeply involved in such trafficking. Obviously, Twetten also knew that North, Shackley, Clines, Hakim, Robert Sensi, and Cyrus Hashemi, and Farhad Azima were also involved in such trafficking, as all these individuals were part of the same network; as him."

[loudsue]

184. Here's some REALLY good stuff to chew on, starroute

http://www.pdxnorml.org/MENA2

It ties the airline companies, Iran-Contra, Bush, Barry Seal, Bill Clinton, etc., etc., into a lot of international dealings.

(Long read!! But well worth it!)

I still can't find the links on how some fruit-trading company (can't find the name of it), going back to the 1800's, leads back to the bush/Harriman, etc., monies from (opium) drug trafficking. I think it's back before DemocraticUnderground re-did their web-site, and many of our oldest links were lost.

I'm not as good on google research as many of you guys are here. But several years ago on DU, there were links to family histories that showed how the bush family got much of their original $$ from opium. It wasn't necessarily "Bush" that was named in the beginning, but certainly lots of the predecessors to the Walker/Harriman family, members who were involved in some fruit/produce trading company that tied back to Florida/Texas/China and the opium trade. It went way back through bush's family tree to the 1800's. I don't know how to find it, since the DU bookmarks were "disappeared" when they changed their web site in 2002.

With the link above, you can see where the bush family mafia has been involved in the cocaine and marijuana traficking business through MENA, Ark. It wasn't ALL for Iran-Contra....it was also for profit for those involved. And it ties back in with aviation companies in Florida, Arkansas, Texas and Louisiana.


:kick::kick::kick:

[starroute]

187. The 19th century opium trade is tied to Kerry's family, not the Bushes

Kerry's grandfather was born in Shanghai in 1879. His great-grandfather was one of several members of the Forbes family who had been deeply involved in claiming an American share of the (previously British-controlled) opium trade in China. Several other families associated with the early days of Skull and Bones were part of the trade as well.

At that time, the Bushes weren't even in the picture. Although of New England ancestry, they had settled in Ohio in the 1800's and become small manufacturers. It wasn't until Prescott Bush got involved with the World War I armaments racket that they rejoined the eastern power elite.

The only significant fruit company I know of is United Fruit, which was supported by US gun diplomacy in dominating the "banana republics" of Central America in the early 1900's. Allen Dulles worked for United Fruit in the 1920's, and one of his first acts as CIA director in 1954 was to overthrow the Arbenz government in Guatemala on their behalf. But there's no direct connection to the Bushes in that case either.

[Pallas180]

190. Marine Col Smedley Butler's book may have more info on

the involvement of the army and the corporations...I know he mentioned
being responsible for clearing the way for United Fruit.

[starroute]

182. Oil companies -- Equatorial Guinea -- Riggs Bank connection

http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20040806-000749-1814

August 6, 2004

Devon Energy Corp. (DVN) said it received a letter Friday from the Securities and Exchange Commission asking for cooperation in an inquiry into whether U.S. oil companies violated federal law by bribing officials in Equatorial Guinea.

The company said it would cooperate with the commission.

Other U.S. companies that have been contacted include Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM), Marathon Oil Corp. (MRO), ChevronTexaco Corp. (CVX) and Amerada Hess Corp. (AHC).

The inquiry follows a Senate subcommittee report last month into Washington-based bank Riggs National Corp. (RIGS). The Senate report found companies had made millions of dollars in questionable payments to top officials in the West African nation through the bank.

[starroute]

183. Vinson & Elkins -- powerful Bush-related lawfirm

http://www.utwatch.org/utimco/vinson.html

Vinson and Elkins, L.L.P. could possibly be the most influential lobbyists in Texas; they are certainly the most profitable. This law firm can make these claims since they have good friends in high places. They have donated much to the GOP and helped friends such as Tom Hicks. The latter used Vinson and Elkins to help establish UTIMCO in 1995; they have remained as legal counsel for UTIMCO.

<snip>

Vinson and Elkins has donated to many campaigns such as Bush, Cornyn, and many other politicians in the state. Twenty-three donors from Vinson and Elkins donated $133,000 to Bush for his 1998 gubernatorial race. In addition to UTIMCO, the law firm has also served counsel to former Texas Rangers partners Mercer Reynolds, William DeWitt, Rusty Rose, and Roland Betts. These four men also happen to be big Bush donors.

<snip>

They were on board with Enron until the end, and they are still trying to help the company. They claim the Enron never did anything illegal; maybe that's because they handled $150 million of the companies business. They have also received big bucks from companies like Alcoa, Inc. by assuring that the Rockdale plant maintain its absurd levels of pollution. In the 1999 legislative session, while Bush was running for President, Vinson and Elkins poured $201,3501 into Bush's campaign. Three of the company's attorneys also pledged $300,000 to Bush. This happened at the same time Texas was meeting to discuss the Texas grandfathered laws; naturally they were overlooked.

[Pallas180]

215. Sibel is a hero and we need to help her get the word out.

what a brave woman.

[democraticinsurgent]

185. kick!

this is an incredible thread...you guys rock!

i've kept up with the plame threads and now this one. thanks a million.

[democraticinsurgent]

186. john kerry: part of it, or not?

has anyone run across kerry's name in connection with any of this?

the more paranoid sites, like rense, for example, paint kerry as part of the global illuminati conspiracy, citing skull & bones, etc.

i'd love to believe that he's independent of the octopus, but i'm too cynical at this point.

what do you all think?

[Pallas180]

189. Hi A INDIANA - I've had the same thoughts myself- John

kerry is not my first choice, Edwards or Dean was....Yes Skull &
bones history..and nothing good has come out of that organization -

another super rich -

does he believe in ONe World Government or not?

Will he abolish the fascist laws put in place and retunr the laws
Of the Constitution of the United States?

Will he really stop the export of jobs and take away the tax breaks
from the multi national corporation?

Those are the questions - and I too remain skeptical.

But the people have no choice.

It's fascism or take a chance .

[democraticinsurgent]

193. i am hopeful myself

from all angles he can't be as bad as what we have now. He may be a one-worlder but i do think he's basically a good human. and you are right, he's our only choice right now.

i don't recall if any of the posts herein derived info from David Icke's work. if any of you have read his books--i am just reading my first one--he is very much into illuminati, mind control, reptillians and other less-than-plausible areas.

however--and this is a BIG however--his book "Alice in Wonderland and the WTC Disaster" touches on the vast oil reserves in the Caspian sea, the Bush family's plan to control it, and fingers many of the same perps as this thread does. i just happened to read this part of the book this morning, after reading this whole thread late last night.

hmm...

[Pallas180]

199. AWAKEIN INDIANA - are there any parts of the book you can

add here - anything we haven't discovered?

Darn...if we had known there was a book about this, we wouldnt
have had to work so hard searching the interent :)

but we do back up with links to substantiate our research..so
perhaps it was worth it.

:)

[democraticinsurgent]

207. you are far beyond him i think (and not into reptilians either)

I'm not too far into the book yet so I'm not sure if there is a lot that's not been uncovered by you all.

But here is an intriguing passage:

Azerbaijan, like the other oil rich or pipeline-significant countries in the Caspian, has an appalling human rights record. Ethnic cleansing of Armenians has led to sanctions and restrictions on uS aid. Cheney has pressed for repeal of this to release funds for the oil cartel's operations in Azerbaijan and has lobbied constantly for sanctions to blifted on Iran and other countries to ease through the Illuminati oil agenda he represents.

<snip>

By 1997, Pennzoil, Unocal, Amoco and Exxon had invested $5 billion in Azerbaijan and, asw e have seen so many times, forcibly controlling the population to ensure unchallenged control for the oil cartel is a constant strategies. Compliant dictatorships are good for business and I include "democracies" in that also. The Azerbaijan government is now serving the interests of this American and British takeover of the Caspian region by selling off ports, railroads, the national airline, airports and other state-run enterprises to "foreign investors". It is an identical story in the Balkans where the same thing is happening. Governments are installed after maipulated wars that will sell off major state assets to the Illuminati corporations and award contracts to their companies for "reconstruction". Contracts for the Balkan region are estimated to be worth 30 billion pounds. Then ther is the money (taxpayers money) paid out for "reconstruction" and "aid" by the World Bank and IMF, both of which are 100% Illuminati. Most of this money also ends up with the corporatins and this is why the projects funded by this diabologic duo are designted to benefit business interests and not local populations.

<snip>

gee, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? So based on the above, the Iraq War is...a....smashing success. Regime changed, money transferred, population enslaved.

Check.

[shraby]

209. My feeling about Kerry is

if he is involved, he wouldn't have taken on Iran/Contra and also BCCI.

[starroute]

188. This Azerbaijan stuff just screams "Houston oil interests"

I was really surprised to see a Vinson & Elkins senior policy advisor on the US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce board of trustees, because I've never seen them mentioned in any context other than that of local Texas politics (mainly Bush and Enron.) But that got me thinking about just how many of these USACC figures are not just "power elite" or "big oil" but specifically "Texas" and even "Houston."

Lloyd Bentsen was another surprising name on the USACC list, but he also makes sense in the Houston context. And the Baker& Botts/Jim Baker/Baker Institute/Enron complex is another link to Houston.

Googling --USAAC Houston-- turns up an awful lot of links. Things like:

"The US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce (USACC) of Washington, D.C., and the Greater Houston Partnership are jointly organizing a "Conference on Trade and Investment Opportunities in Azerbaijan" in Houston on May 20-22, 1996."

"Bertling Logistics, a USACC member, has provided us with a warehouse in Houston, TX. Throughout the year, donors like you send textbooks, notebooks, pens, pencils and any other school supplies to the warehouse. Bertling Logistics ships these supplies to Azerbaijan for free where IRC distributes them among refugee children."

"On Aug-2 {1997} about 200 guests and members of USACC (US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce) attended reception and dinner of Houston major Bob Lanier for the honor of President G.Aliev. ... At the dinner President G.Aliev received a message of his 6th grandson birth. In his presentation major Bob Lanier proposed an option for name - Sam Houston Aliev, :). (Sam Houston was first president of Texas after winning independence from Mexico in 1836). The reception in general was very friendly."

More in the post below on why I think this is important.

[Pallas180]

191. More than Texas. China and Saudi are partners with some of

the US companies in this Asbarjan grab. The dont show up on
the chamber of commerce list, but you have to read other articles to
find their interest...

In any case I think we have the articles listed separately above.

[starroute]

192. Houston and the Southern power elite

The main point I want to make is that there is not just one power elite in the US -- there are two. And although sometimes they work together, they are just as often rivals or even enemies. One is the traditional northern power elite, based in New York and New England and in elite universities like Harvard and Yale. The other is the southern elite, whose roots are in the old Confederacy but whose current base is Texas and whose wealth comes primarily from oil.

One good place to start in understanding the Houston elite is with the Baker and Botts lawfirm. Walter Browne Botts was a member of a Virginia family of lawyers who had served in the Texas legislature and in the Confederate Army. In 1866, he cofounded the lawfirm of Gray and Botts, which became Baker and Botts after Judge James Addison Baker joined in 1872 and Mr. Gray died in 1874.

James Addison Baker Jr. became a partner in 1887. He was instrumental in the establishment of Rice Institute in 1912 and was the chairman of its board of trustees until his death in 1941. The Rice board seems to have functioned as a power base throughout this period. They managed Howard Hughes' assets after his father died when he was eighteen. Rice board members were involved with the management of William Stamps Farish's company, Humble Oil. George R. Brown, who was for many years head of the Rice Institute board of governors, was the brother of Herman Brown, the original chairman of Brown & Root.

Walter Browne Botts' daughter Martha married David Rice, nephew of the William Marsh Rice whose estate had provided for the founding of the Rice Institute. One of their daughters was married for a time to Howard Hughes. The other married William Stamps Farish. Farish himself was originally from Mississippi -- his great-grandmother was a sister of Confederate President Jefferson Davis -- but had settled in Houston in 1901 and become a pioneering oil developer.

These Houston families, as well as others who became wealthy though various forms of resource extraction -- oil, land development, timber -- appear to form the core of the southern power elite. Their relationship with the old northern elite has been ambivalent, at best. For example, Farish ultimately became president of Standard Oil, after Standard acquired his Humble Oil. But when the story about Standard trading with the Nazis broke wide open in 1942, the Rockefellers left Farish twisting in the wind, claiming they had no knowledge of the day-to-day operations of the company.

George H.W. Bush, although he headed to Texas to make his fortune after World War II, has always remained firmly of the nothern elite. But George W. -- phoney Texas accent and all -- has identified just as firmly with the southerners.

One disquieting aspect of the southern elite is a strong streak of right-wing extremism which easily slops over into fascism. Part of this goes back to US colonial days -- New England was settled by hard-working, mainly middle-class Puritans, while the south was settled by a combination of aristocrats and indentured servants. Part of it has to do with the legacy of the Civil War, which was both fought to defend an elite way of life and left a legacy of resentment and lost hopes. Part which is specifically Texan has to do with the cowboy mentality and the racist implications of having stolen their land from Mexico.

During the 1930's, Texas was particularly fertile ground for American fascists. During the 1950's, Texas had a McCarthyite governor and was full of extreme right-wing groups and individuals, such as H.L. Hunt (who even wrote a very bad utopian novel proposing that rich people should have more votes than poor ones.) When John Kennedy was assasssinated in Dallas, the location came as no surprise -- Texas was enemy territory, after all. And the strong presence of Saudi investors in Texas since the 1980's -- and their close ties with firms like Baker & Botts -- seem like just a new twist on the old aristocratic pattern.

I don't know why, but the northern elite has been losing influence for decades -- the Kennedy administration was the last point at which they were clearly dominant. (Perhaps Kennedy's assassination had more to do with that than with Vietnam or any other issues of the moment.) They have been mocked as effete, featured prominently by New World Order conspiracy theorists, and squeezed out of presidential power. At the same time the southern elite, flush with oil money, has evaded that sort of critical scrutiny and has gone from strength to strength.

I don't know whether the Kerry campaign is a last-ditch effort by the old 19th century northern elite or the first hint of something entirely new in internal US power relationships. But the Kerry-Bush confrontation is clearly a battle that will establish the shape of power in the 21st century.

Meanwhile, with Texas's own oil running out, foriegn sources of oil like Iraq or the Caspian Sea have come to appear to the southern elite as a necessary means of perpetuating their own power. I don't know how possible it is to form a power base on the foundation of someone else's resources -- the Spanish did it using American gold, but that was a very special case. (The gold was already there, the produce of millenia of accumulation, and Spain just had to sweep in and steal it.) But that isn't going to stop them from trying.

[Pallas180]

194. Jay Rockefeller vs Bush - is it an internal power struggle of

the elite north against the elite south for dominance - the old feud
and then that would include Kerry.

It becomes apparent that anyone in Skull and bones seems to have been
a "Mayflower - DAR" type. The club. It's not about money, it's about ancestry...notice, they cant take it with them, but they pass it on.
Baker and Baker and Baker, Bush, bush, bush, FArish, farish, farish... long term planning..and indoctrination. But the indoctrination seems to be fascist.

is there truly an altruistic effort by Jay Rockefeller? What's
your opinion? Does Jay Rockefeller subscribe to David Rockefeller's
ubermensch beliefs or not?

A Rockefeller in West Virginia may have been the Rockefeller's attempt
to get a foothold in the South, it would appear from what you have written above.

What are Jay Rockefeller's beliefs is the question? ANy history that
we may form an opinion from?

One thing to remember is that Standard Oil became EXXON which I think
has must merged with Exxon-Mobil. We have to go back and look at
which oil companies are involved in the gas pipeline through Afghanistan and the Caspian.

Also was Aramco, Standard Oil plus the Sauds? I seem to remember.

[starroute]

195. I've never been sure about the Rockefellers

Jay Rockefeller has definitely made some quiet but deliberate anti-Bush moves over the last year. But then, he was always seen as the radical in the family -- moving to West Virginia and asking to be known as Jay rather than John D. Rockefeller IV.

I did see something recently in a source far too bizarre to be taken seriously which suggested that David was one of the bad guys and Nelson was working against him. It also claimed David had Nelson murdered -- as I say, too bizarre to take seriously -- but still, it got me wondering about the possibility of divisions within the family.

I've also been wondering lately about whether there's any deeper significance to the fact that Averell Harriman was elected governor of New York in 1954 and that Nelson Rockefeller ran against and defeated him in 1958.

And then there was Winthrop Rockefeller, who was elected governor of Arkansas in 1966. (I just checked online to get the date and found that his son, Winthrop Paul Rockefeller, is now the lieutenant governor.) As far as I ever heard, he was an alright guy too.

I don't know nearly enough in this area, but I get the feeling that the David Rockefeller/Chase Manhattan nexus is the significant one -- not the Rockefellers in general. In fact, it would probably be worth looking into the history of all the major old-line banks. It could reveal a lot.

[Pallas180]

197. Starroute, honey

do you ever read anything I post?

David is the monster behind all that is occurring in the world today and since the 50's...his trilateral commission, whichpappy is a member
of was founded in 1973 - offshoot of Bilderberg of which he was also
major first participant

David is a very bad bad evil boy.

Please go read the thread Eugenics on Gen Discusss...Rockefeller was behind sterilization, and Hitler's extermination ideas. They were imported from America.. and the Rockefeller foundation and the Carnegie institute (Carnegie-Mellon BAnk- Scaiffe) funded the programs and got them into law. They wanted to purify the bloodlines so they castrated and cut fallopian tubes of poor people who because they were poor were warehoused in homes for the feebleminded, along
with the actual feebleminded. Read Part 6 on the header of that thread. these are monsters.

And I want to know whether this is just a war of the Titans or whether any Rockefeller has any decent emotion flowing in his veins.

They are reviving these "eugenics" by chimp's mental health assessment of all Americans, children in schools which he jsut passed.
get it?

They have also returned to their old ways, when people they didnt think fit to survive, they did not administer medical care but just let them die....What do you think HMO's do? They decide what medical care you'll receive and whether or not you will have an x ray or operation.....get it?

Read the "ugenics and the Oil Barons"thread and then understand where
these fascists are going.

As one woman recently said,I've seen this all before,"

she was a survivor of Auschwtiz....by the way which Standard Oil, Rockefeller, FArish, used to supply slave labor.

[starroute]

200. I don't believe for a moment that David Rockefeller is behind everything

For one thing, I don't believe that any one person is behind everything. The world just doesn't work that way. It's been human nature ever since the Old Stone Age to form secret societies and conspire together -- but the very nature of a secret society is to be small and private and to cherish its own secrets. The world is full of conspiracies and they're mostly autonomous.

I particularly don't believe that Bilderberg and the Trilateral Commission are the source of all evil. They're too well known, too public, too open to opinion leaders across a broad ideological range.

My areas of particular interest for the last couple of years have been the BFEE, the Octopus, and related matters like BCCI. And in all those areas, the Rockefellers just never come up. It isn't that anyone is hiding them -- they just don't play a role in those particular stories.

For that matter, I've had the impression for 40 years that most of the Rockefellers -- like Jay, or like Michael (the one who disappeared in New Guinea while studying local cultures) -- were trying to live down what old John D. did.

I'm willing to have a closer look at some of the old-line banks, like Chase Manhattan and Citibank and JP Morgan, which are certainly in there trying to manipulate the economy. But I really don't expect to find a key to the source of all evil in the world or even to the resurgence of fascism. The action has moved on and they've largely been left behind.

[Pallas180]

201. Fascist Influence of Rockefellers & US economy thru Strauss & U. of Chicag

Not only was Strauss a promoter of fascist ideology, but his entry into the United States and his work there through most of his life was supported financially by two of the most powerful American fascist families. While the dealings of the Rockefeller-owned Standard Oil Company with the Nazis during the war allowed the family the thin pretense that they were not personally involved, other actions by the Rockefeller family confirm their fascist ideology. It was the Rockefeller Foundation that provided funding for much of the Nazi research into eugenics, including the funding for the twin research conducted in the concentration camps by Mengele.

Strauss's connections to the neo-cons within the Bush administration are well known at this point. Numerous other neo-cons serving in the Bush administration or the American Enterprise Organization, who funded the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), were students and followers of Strauss. Not only can this be seen in their dictatorial approach but it is also visible in their strong pro-Israeli views. An interesting aspect of Strauss's tenure at the University of Chicago is that it is during his tenure that both David Rockefeller and John Ashcroft received their degrees from the University of Chicago.

The Rockefeller family played a key role not only in funding Strauss but also in destroying the economies of Third World nations. The Rockefellers have used the University of Chicago and their various family foundations to promote an economic policy of ruin. The laissez-faire economics promoted by the Chicago school has failed numerous times in the past and was one of the leading causes of the 1929 stock market crash and resulting Great Depression. Such economic policies only lead to global fascism and corporate rule, which are the prime goal of the Rockefeller family.

This is evident in David Rockefeller's support of free trade agreements, the World Trade Organization and the World Bank. These trade organization and agreements have impoverished much of the Southern Hemisphere with their draconian demands for privatization and cuts in social spending. Moreover, these trade agreements effectively reduce the government's role to that of an enforcer of corporate policies. All of these free trade agreements contain a clause setting up a tribunal comprised of corporations to settle all disputes, including claims against the government. The clause effectively bypasses the court systems in signatory countries. In effect, these clauses confer supreme sovereignty to multinational corporations who answer to no one. Under these clauses, corporations are free to claim environmental laws, labor laws and other laws are harmful to the company and cause it financial loss, which results in massive settlements against the government and in the overturning of needed laws.

One of the chief advocates of these free trade agreements is Dick Cheney, who has promised David Rockefeller that he would deliver a hemisphere trade agreement before the end of the current Bush administration.

Such unconstitutional trade agreements have become commonplace as a result of the Rockefellers' ability to control and direct economic thought in the United States. In essence, the Rockefellers maintain a monopoly on economic theory. To understand how they gained such control brings us back to the 1920s. During the 1920s, two economists rose to prominence: Ludwig von Mises, and Friedrich A. Hayek. Both were helped by Rockefeller money. Von Mises toured the United States in 1926. The tour of American Universities was sponsored by the Laura Spelman Rockefeller Foundation and was greatly successful in promoting the views of the Austrian School of Economics. Hayek tutored personally David Rockefeller in economics.

In 1950, von Hayek was brought to the United States to teach at the University of Chicago. He didn't teach economics, he was actually made a professor on the Committee on Social Thought. This was an exceptionally dangerous position for a man that held the views von Hayek did. In 1945, von Hayek's The Road to Serfdom was published. This poorly written book was an attack on the concept of the nation-state. In it, von Hayek argued that the nation-state was a hindrance to peace, and socialism led to totalitarian systems, which treated their citizens as serfs. In place of the nation-state von Hayek proposed a supra-national authority or world federation consisting of the financial elite.

This elite would then be free to rule the world according to their own interest. In 1947, von Hayek created the Mount Pelerin Society, made up of the financial elite of Europe, as a first step toward his supranational authority. In the years since, the Mount Perlin Society has been influential in creating numerous "conservative" think tanks, which promote free market economic policies for the Establishment. The society has expanded to include the following think tanks: the Heritage Foundation in 1973, the Fraser Institute in 1974, the Manhattan Institute in 1977, and the Pacific Institute for Public Policy Research in 1978.

The influence of the Chicago University on modern economics is unprecedented. Since 1969, most of the Nobel prizes in economics have been awarded to the free traders, despite the spectacular failures of laissez-faire economies.

Economists who dare publish articles opposing the thought of the Chicago University, are quickly ridiculed, their works dismissed, and their careers wrecked. All this is a testimony to the power of the Rockefeller family and its control over economy and free thought.

The connection between the University of Chicago and fascism was renewed in the 1960s under Pinochet in Chile. It was the "boys from Chicago", students of Milton Friedman, who destroyed the economy and reduced the citizens to serfdom in Pinochet's fascist Chile, where dissent was eliminated by right-wing death squads.

According to von Hayek's views, corporations are given the status of sovereign nations while the nation-states are reduced to mere quislings of the corporate state and enforcer of their laws. This is the same agenda as that of the World Trade Organization, the International Monetary fund and the many so-called "free trade agreements." Many of the Bush neocons are further linked with von Hayek by their beliefs in Mandeville. (Von Hayek rejected the idea that man was created in the image of god and traced his philosophical ancestry to the early eighteenth century Satanist, Bernard Mandeville.)

At this point, it becomes clear that the Bush administration's philosophical roots are clearly grounded in fascist ideology and in the fascist dogma of the corporate state. That these roots come from two of America's richest families confirms fascism as a top-down revolution by the elite to maintain their control and power. The fascist roots of the Bush regime are manifested in the operative side of its philosophy, through the Psychological Strategy Board under Nelson Rockefeller. C D Jackson served in the Eisenhower administration; he was in charge of the psychological warfare. Both Bruce and Howell Jackson were part of the PNAC project, the blueprint for the Bush regime.

The operative route: how the fascists manifested themselves. (See accompanying diagram.) http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushadmin.html

A return to the partners of J.P Morgan provides the operative connection between the Bush administration and fascism. Thomas Lamont was a prominent figure in the 1934 fascist plot to remove Roosevelt from office. The plot called for retired Marine General Smedley Butler to lead the force --much of it consisting of American Legionnaires-- to take over the White House. Roosevelt would be given a chance to step down and to cooperate with the plotters. If Roosevelt refused to let the business leaders seize power, then the plotters would kill him.

However, Butler was an honorable man, and he leaked the information concerning the plot to Roosevelt. Roosevelt knew he could not simply dismiss it when it was connected with several leading industrialists and bankers. To foil the plot, Roosevelt leaked information about it to the press. The resulting commotion in the front pages of the country's newspapers undermined any efforts by the plotters to proceed.

Butler described his military career as follows.


"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses…. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested."

[Pallas180]

202. Neo Con Teachings of Strauss at University of Chicago

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5646.htm
-SNIP-
"Strauss’s teaching incorporated much of Machiavelli’s. Significantly, his philosophy is unfriendly to democracy—even antagonistic. At the same time Strauss upheld the necessity for a national religion not because he favored religious practices, but because religion in his view is necessary in order to control the population. Since neo-conservatives influenced by Strauss are in control of the Bush administration, I have prepared a brief list that shows the radical unchristian basis of neo-conservatism. I am indebted to Shadia Drury’s book (Leo Strauss and the American Right) and published interviews for the following:

First: Strauss believed that a leader had to perpetually deceive the citizens he ruled.

Secondly: Those who lead must understand there is no morality, there is only the right of the superior to rule the inferior.

Thirdly: According to Drury, Religion “is the glue that holds society together.”<40> It is a handle by which the ruler can manipulate the masses. Any religion will do. Strauss is indifferent to them all.

Fourthly: “Secular society…is the worst possible thing,” because it leads to individualism, liberalism, and relativism, all of which encourage dissent and rebellion. As Drury sums it up: “You want a crowd that you can manipulate like putty.”<41>

Fifthly: “Strauss thinks that a political order can be stable only if it is united by an external threat; and following Machiavelli, he maintains that if no external threat exists, then one has to be manufactured.”<42>

Sixthly: “In Strauss’s view, the trouble with liberal society is that it dispenses with noble lies and pious frauds. It tries to found society on secular rational foundations.

-SNIP-
a long read but if you want to know what the neo-cons are doing, here it is.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5646.htm

[starroute]

203. This all sounds terribly indirect

What I see you saying is that the Rockefellers' diabological plot to rule the world consists of using the University of Chicago to encourage one until-recently obscure philosophy teacher (who died in 1973) plus the Chicago school of economics.

Yet for the last thirty years, the Bush family have been operating through or in concert with such powerful forces as the CIA, BCCI, and Saudi oil sheikhs and have had influence with or control over veritually every Republican president since Nixon.

At the same time, Richard Mellon Scaife and his minions have been pulling the public discourse in this country further and further right and destroying presidents and presidential candidates at will.

And the various tentacles of the Octopus have been enriching themselves beyond imagining through drug-smuggling and arms-dealing and are working up to the ability to take over entire small nations.

Any one of these amounts to far more power and direct influence than the Rockefellers give any sign of wielding.

I can believe that at least some of the Rockefellers have been instrumental in the promotion of globalization, though even there I'd need more evidence than you've shown before I'd believe either that they were the major force behond it or that it had an explicitly fascist agenda. But even globalization itself looks to me like nothing so much as an ivory tower attempt (philosophers and economists!) to maintain Western dominance in a world that is rapidly spinning out of control.

That loss of control is for me one of the most important aspects of both the Plame matter and the Sibyl Edmunds revelations. And yet every time I bring it up, you attempt to rule me off topic on the grounds that what I'm saying doesn't point back at the Bilderbergers.

You and I may have to agree to disagree on this matter. I can live with that. But I hope that you will not be so narrow-minded as to attempt to impose arbitrary limits on any DU discussion just because it isn't following your preconceived agenda.

[Pallas180]

205. We appear to be saying the same thing, however

your last paragraph is very unnecessary and highly insulting. So if you want to converse nicely with me at all, that is not the way to do it. Arbitrary limits? Post whatever the fucking goddam shit you
want to - as you have been- as most of it is not connectable to Sibel
Edmonds.

It is not a matter of just dumping information, and dumping and dumping, but of connecting it to the subject. And the subject is
Sibel Edmonds words.

Although much of your posts have been off topic and we actually have been through with Sibel Edmonds' half the thread ago,when we said - "AHA we have the answer", you have continued and although most of what yhou have added cannot be tied into the narrow narrow narrow subject of the investigation of Sibel Edmonds words, and have been far afield and you insist it must all be tied in together on one thread - althoug I have suggested to you several times, lets start a separate thread on it...no...you have to bull right ahead.

So go ahead Starroute. Muck up the Sibel Edmonds thread with informatiopn that does not belong to her. You will notice no one else has had the patience or interest to post back anythign to you on your
info dump.

FYI - not only did Strauss tutor Rockefellers, but also Ledeeen and
Ashcroft graduated from his class the same year.

And all of the neo-cons, including Perle, who I believe is married to
Strauss' daughter, have studied under Strauss, or one of his students.
He may have had the twisted philosophy, but Rockefeller and Carnegie
and Mello-Scaife had the money and power to enforce it and push it onto this country's foreign policy, just as they pushed eugenics into
law which still remains in 37 states and has re-surfaced under the heading of "mental health tests for all."

For your further enlightenment, Mellon Scaiffe's mother was very involved in the Eugenics movement and he took up her "charities" after her death....and quite right , he was the front man behind the
hounding of Clinton....and what group was he fronting for?

And for your futher information, where did all the lawyers of the Vast
Right Wing Conspiracy originate from? Chicago. Chicago. Chicago. Geee
I wonder where they were educated - duh.

Finally, I do not think they have lost control at all.

You may think so .

The chimp said he will create chaos.

controlled chaos. and it is the CIA's and the cabal's control.

And it fits right in with what they propose ---endless war from which they can profiteer.

Yes, I disagree with you that it is out of control. They have pushed
the envelope to right where they want it.

And you have perhaps pushed me a little too far.




ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[shraby]

210. All right, here is how I see

this whole thread. We now understand what Sibel Edmonds was talking about. By trying to look into the history of the people involved, we have a better understanding on where to look for more information. As with the Plame thread, there are false starts and many theories, but by not examining the various theories we cut ourselves short and consequently may miss some important information. By leaving the discussion open minded, we get much much farther. By closing doors we limit ourselves.

Remember I said all roads lead to Rome? Chances are you're both right. We just haven't found where the roads come together. By not exploring, we never will. On the other hand, the roads may just run parallel like a railroad track..both going the same direction to the same destination but never do meet. By shutting off either investigation, we'll never find out.

[Pallas180]

211. Schraby, I have no objection to continuing investigating names

found which may be on a parallel track or converge...but on a separate thread. Just as you have started Goss on a separate thread, but we know he's the cover up for the pappy and junior black bag and drug connected agency work.

Just as I have started Bush, Strauss Machiavelli on a separate thread.

Just as I have started Oil Barons & Eugenics on a separate thread.

It's all the same characters - with some hired peripheral thugs...
but on one thread it becomes meaningless and confusing - and nobody will understand it.

Which is why there were 20 separate threads on Plame...BTW which many
complained was too long and cumbersome to go through.. which is
excatly what is happening here.

[Pallas180]

212. BTW

where is the Goss thread?

[shraby]

213. I found it and added to it.

It was on page 6. I noticed you split the discussion which was a good idea. Maybe by adding to the Goss thread, I brought it back closer to the top.

[Pallas180]

214. Schraby, Ron Brown, Minister of Trade for Clinton

where did his plane go down?

[shraby]

216. His plane went down in Croatia.

here is an article about it, but there are many more if you google Ron Brown + Clinton

<http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/ron-brown/>

[shraby]

217. Apparently there were some

tin foil hats put on at the time.

[Pallas180]

219. Thanks, Yeah I did google and found it - along with another

site about all the democrats whose planes went down just before
elections,,,tin foil site yes, but Carnahan and WEllstone...I thought
Wellstone was tin foil..but I didn't know that Cheney threatened
him, "We'll get you" and more, for not voting for the war powers and patriot act. Apparently Wellstone repeated what Cheney told him in his election speeches.....and the republican congress has refused any
investigation of his crash, which othes accidents have had.

hmmmmm.

[robertpaulsen]

220. Kick this to the top!

Wow! Looks like I've got a lot of reading to do! Thanks for keeping this research and discussion thriving!

:kick:

[Pallas180]

221. WOW! Welcome back Robert - thought you

gave up, which would have been terrible.

How is settling into your new office?

[robertpaulsen]

223. Terrible!

They finally hooked up the internet, but not the fax machine, so phones are ringing off the hook. But it is great to be back! I'm on lunch now, so look's like there's a lot of good reading to catch up on here.

[robertpaulsen]

224. Thank God I bookmarked this!

It's quite an eyeful. I'm about halfway through and that Azerbaijan info is shocking, yet exactly what I expected to find with this cabal.

:kick:

[robertpaulsen]

225. I think I know why a lot of this is familiar to me.

I bought a book at City Lights in North Beach in the fall of 2002. I can't remember the title, but I'll find it when I get home. It was a collection of essays dealing with 9/11, Osama and our wonderful way of entangling our country in ME affairs.

I remember there were a couple essays about oil ties with the Caspian Sea. I'll try to find those articles and get the links on this thread. Probably won't happen until next Wednesday, but I might be able to get it here on Sunday if I have the time. I'm sure everyone here would find it fascinating.

[Pallas180]

230. Sibel's Interview On CBS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lost In Translation
Aug. 8, 2004


This is the story of hundreds, if not thousands, of foreign language documents that the FBI neglected to translate before and after the Sept. 11 attacks -- documents that detailed what the FBI heard on wiretaps and learned during interrogations of suspected terrorists.

Sibel Edmonds, a translator who worked at the FBI's language division, says the documents weren't translated because the division was riddled with incompetence and corruption.

Edmonds was fired after reporting her concerns to FBI officials. She told her story behind closed doors to investigators in Congress and to the Justice Department. Most recently, she spoke with the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks.

She first told Correspondent Ed Bradley her story a year after Sept. 11.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because she is fluent in Turkish and other Middle Eastern languages, Edmonds, a Turkish-American, was hired by the FBI soon after Sept. 11 and given top-secret security clearance to translate some of the reams of documents seized by FBI agents who have been rounding up suspected terrorists across the United States and abroad.

Edmonds says that to her amazement, from the day she started the job, she was told repeatedly by one of her supervisors that there was no urgency,- that she should take longer to translate documents so that the department would appear overworked and understaffed. That way, it would receive a larger budget for the next year.

“We were told by our supervisors that this was the great opportunity for asking for increased budget and asking for more translators,” says Edmonds. “And in order to do that, don't do the work and let the documents pile up so we can show it and say that we need more translators and expand the department.”

Edmonds says that the supervisor, in an effort to slow her down, went so far as to erase completed translations from her FBI computer after she'd left work for the day.

“The next day, I would come to work, turn on my computer, and the work would be gone. The translation would be gone,” she says. “Then I had to start all over again and retranslate the same document. And I went to my supervisor and he said, ‘Consider it a lesson and don't talk about it to anybody else and don't mention it.’

"The lesson was don’t work, and don’t do the translations. ...Don't do the work because -- and this is our chance to increase the number of people here in this department."

Edmonds put her concerns about the FBI's language department in writing to her immediate superiors and to a top official at the FBI. For months, she said she received no response. Then, she turned for help to the Justice Department's inspector general and to Sen. Charles Grassley, whose committee, the Judiciary Committee, has direct oversight of the FBI.

“She's credible,” says Grassley. “And the reason I feel she's very credible is because people within the FBI have corroborated a lot of her story.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The FBI has conceded that some people in the language department are unable to adequately speak English or the language they're supposed to be translating. Kevin Taskasen was assigned to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba to translate interrogations of Turkish-speaking al Qaeda members who had been captured after Sept. 11. The FBI admits that he was not fully qualified to do the job.

“He neither passed the English nor the Turkish side of the language proficiency test,” says Edmonds.

Critical shortages of experienced Middle Eastern language translators have plagued the FBI and the rest of the U.S. intelligence community for years.

Months before the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, one of the plotters of the attack was heard on tape having a discussion in Arabic that no one at the time knew was about how to make explosives - and he had a manual that no one at the time knew was about how to blow up buildings. None of it was translated until well after the bombing, and while the FBI has hired more translators since then, officials concede that problems in the language division have hampered the country's efforts to battle terrorism.

According to congressional investigators, this may have played a role in the inability to prevent the Sept. 11 attacks. The General Accounting Office reported that the FBI had expressed concern over the thousands of hours of audiotapes and pages of written material that have not been reviewed or translated because of a lack of qualified linguists.

“If they got word today that within, in a little while, the Hoover Dam was going to be blown up, and it takes a week or two to get it translated, as was one of the problems in this department, you know, you couldn't intervene to prevent that from happening,” says Grassley.

In its rush to hire more foreign language translators after Sept. 11, the FBI admits it has had difficulty performing background checks to detect translators who may have loyalties to other governments, which could pose a threat to U.S. national security.

Take the case of Jan Dickerson, a Turkish translator who worked with Edmonds. The FBI has admitted that when Dickerson was hired, the bureau didn't know that she had worked for a Turkish organization being investigated by the FBI's own counter-intelligence unit.

They also didn't know she'd had a relationship with a Turkish intelligence officer stationed in Washington who was the target of that investigation. According to Edmonds, Dickerson tried to recruit her into that organization, and insisted that Dickerson be the only one to translate the FBI's wiretaps of that Turkish official.

“She got very angry, and later she threatened me and my family's life,” says Edmonds, when she decided not to go along with the plan. “She said, ‘Why would you want to place your life and your family's life in danger by translating these tapes?’”

Edmonds says that when she reviewed Dickerson's translations of those tapes, she found that Dickerson had left out information crucial to the FBI's investigation - information that Edmonds says would have revealed that the Turkish intelligence officer had spies working for him inside the U.S. State Department and at the Pentagon.

“We came across at least 17, 18 translations, communications that were extremely important for the ongoing investigations of these individuals,” says Edmonds. “She had marked it as 'not important to be translated.'"

What kind of information did she leave out of her translation?

“Activities to obtain the United States military and intelligence secrets,” says Edmonds.

She says she complained repeatedly to her bosses about what she'd found on the wiretaps and about Dickerson's conduct, but that nobody at the FBI wanted to hear about it, not even the assistant special agent in charge.

“He said ‘Do you realize what you are saying here in your allegations? Are you telling me that our security people are not doing their jobs? Is that what you're telling me? If you insist on this investigation, I'll make sure in no time it will turn around and become an investigation about you,’” says Edmonds.

Sibel Edmonds was fired. The FBI offered no explanation, saying in the letter only that her contract was terminated completely for the government's convenience.

But three months later, the FBI conceded that on at least two occasions, Dickerson had, in fact, left out significant information from her translations. They say it was due to a lack of experience and was not malicious.

Dickerson quit the FBI and now lives in Belgium. She declined to be interviewed, but she told The Chicago Tribune that the allegations against her are preposterous and ludicrous. Grassley says he's disturbed by what the Dickerson incident says about internal security at the FBI.

"You shouldn't have somebody in your organization that's compromising our national security by not doing the job right, whether it's lack of skills or whether it's intentional," says Grassley.

Does the Sibel Edmonds case fall into any pattern of behavior, pattern of conduct, on the part of the FBI?

“The usual pattern,” says Grassley. “Let me tell you, first of all, the embarrassing information comes out, the FBI reaction is to sweep it under the rug, and then eventually they shoot the messenger.”

Special agent John Roberts, recently retired as a chief of the FBI's Internal Affairs Department, agrees. And while he is not permitted to discuss the Edmonds case, for the last 10 years, he has been investigating misconduct by FBI employees. He says he is outraged by how little is ever done about it.

“I don't know of another person in the FBI who has done the internal investigations that I have and has seen what I have, and that knows what has occurred and what has been glossed over and what has, frankly, just disappeared, just vaporized, and no one disciplined for it,” says Roberts.

Despite a pledge from FBI Director Robert Mueller to overhaul the culture of the FBI in light of 9/11, and encourage bureau employees to come forward to report wrongdoing, Roberts says that in the rare instances when employees are disciplined, it's usually low-level employees like Edmonds who get punished and not their bosses.

“I think the double standard of discipline will continue no matter who comes in, no matter who tries to change,” says Roberts. “You, you have a certain, certain group that, that will continue to protect itself. That's just how it is.”

Has he found cases since Sept. 11 where people were involved in misconduct and were not, let alone reprimanded, but were even promoted? Roberts says yes.

"That's astonishing," Bradley told Roberts. "You would think that after 9/11, that's a big slap in the face. 'This is a wake-up call here.'"

"Depends on who you are," says Roberts. "If you're in the senior executive level, it may not hurt you. You will be promoted."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last month, the FBI took the highly unusual step of retroactively classifying information it gave to Congress two years ago about the Sibel Edmonds case.

As for the FBI's language division, the bureau says it has dramatically beefed up its translation capabilities.

[Pallas180]

222. Must Read Strauss thread "If No Threat Exists, One Must Be Invented"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2255230&mesg_id=2255230

[Pallas180]

227. Ziggy's plan worked. 1982>1.2 mil displaced people,>1997 20 million, now ?

"THE COERCED DISPLACEMENT of persons within the borders of their own countries by armed conflicts, internal strife, and systematic violations of human rights has become a pervasive feature of the post-cold war era. Large numbers of persons are regularly turned into "refugees" within their national borders, dispossessed by their own governments and other controlling authorities, and forced into a
life of destitution and indignity. Their plight not only poses a humanitarian challenge but also threatens the security and stability of countries, regions, and through a chain effect, the international system of which they are an integral part. As portions of a country, or an entire country, fall into disarray, neighboring countries are forced to bear the brunt of refugee flows and cope with the resulting substantial political and economic disruptions. Violence and instability may spread through entire regions. Regional and international responses are required as much by a collective interest in regional stability and global peace and security as by humanitarian and human rights concerns.

When internally displaced persons (IDPs) were first counted in 1982, 1.2 million were found in eleven countries. By 1997 the number had soared to more than 20 million in at least thirty-five countries. 1 Although some regions are more affected than others, the crisis is global in dimension and magnitude. And while the international community has a wellestablished legal and institutional system of protection and assistance for ...

Notice that the countries we are interested in and whose Chamber of Commerce holds many of the most powerful people in the world, are listed here:

Chapter Seven Internal Displacement in the North Caucasus, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and (Chechnya) Georgia

-more-

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=24514510

You are currently reading:
The Forsaken People: Case Studies of the Internally Displaced
Book by Roberta Cohen, Francis M. Deng; The Brookings Institution, 1998

Put exact phrases in quotes

Click on a chapter to start reading.
-Title Page
-Foreword
-Contents
-Acronyms
-Chapter One Introduction
-Notes
-Chapter Two Burundi: A Patchwork of Displacement
-Conclusions
-Notes
-Chapter Three Rwanda's Internally Displaced: A Conundrum within a Conundrum
-Notes
-Chapter Four Liberia: A Nation Displaced
-Conclusions
-Epilogue: 1996-98
-Notes
-Chapter Five The Sudan: Cradle of Displacement
-Notes
-Chapter Six Dealing with the Displacement and Suffering Caused by Yugoslavia's Wars
-Conclusion
-Chapter Seven Internal Displacement in the North Caucasus, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Georgia
-Conclusion
-Notes
-Chapter Eight Turmoil in Tajikistan: Addressing the Crisis of Internal Displacement
-Conclusions
-Notes
-Chapter Nine Sri Lanka's Vicious Circle of Displacement
-Conclusions
-Notes
-Chapter Ten In Search of Hope: The Plight of Displaced Columbians
-Conclusions and Recommendations
-Notes
-Chapter Eleven Will Peru's Displaced Return?
-Conclusions
-Notes
-About the Contributors
-Index

[Pallas180]

229. Chechnya is in here someplace - it's like find Waldo

and seems critical to the "actions" we have uncovered..Russia has to
go through {Russian} Georgia to get at Chechnya..but Chechnya is not shown on the above map...somehow it fits in critically with the
Azberjani " plans" some of which my be figured out by looking at maps of bodies of water, rivers...dont forget on one side of Azberjan is the Caspian and on the other the Black Sea...the river betweeen the
two may be the access.

Additionally, a lot of information provided by the CIA National Intelligence Council on Azberjan and Armenia, we know now to be incorrect but here it is:

http://www.odci.gov/nic/confreports_resolveconflict.html

you have to surf way down to find Chechnya problems with Russia and
info on Azberjan.